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The Engineer
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Chimps - Highly Evolved

04/17/2007 4:21 PM

I came across this interesting story regarding chimps and humans. It turns out chimps have evolved more than humans from our common ancestor.

Here is the story

It is time to stop thinking we are the pinnacle of evolutionary success – chimpanzees are the more highly evolved species, according to new research.

Evolutionary geneticist Jianzhi Zhang and colleagues at the University of Michigan in Ann Arbor, US, compared DNA sequences for 13,888 genes shared by human, chimp and rhesus macaques.

For each DNA letter at which the human or chimp genes differ from our shared ancestral form – inferred from the corresponding gene in macaques – researchers noted whether the change led to an altered protein. Genes that have been transformed by natural selection show an unusually high proportion of mutations leading to altered proteins.

Zhang's team found that 233 chimp genes, compared with only 154 human ones, have been changed by selection since chimps and humans split from their common ancestor about 6 million years ago.

This contradicts what most evolutionary biologists had assumed. "We tend to see the differences between us and our common ancestor more easily than the differences between chimps and the common ancestor," observes Zhang.

The result makes sense, he says, because until relatively recently the human population has been smaller than that of chimps, leaving us more vulnerable to random fluctuations in gene frequencies. This prevents natural selection from having as strong an effect overall

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#1

Re: Chimps - Highly Evolved

04/17/2007 4:47 PM

I think most animals are more evolved than humans - my dog, for sure.

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#2

Re: Chimps - Highly Evolved

04/17/2007 5:00 PM

"I came across this interesting story regarding chimps and humans. It turns out chimps have evolved more than humans from our common ancestor."

It is obvious from the current "Hardy's" commercial of several chimps doing the 'River Dance!'

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#3

Re: Chimps - Highly Evolved

04/17/2007 9:51 PM

Where do you think politicians come from?

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#4

Re: Chimps - Highly Evolved

04/17/2007 11:35 PM

More differently evolved doesn't mean more highly evolved.

What am I talking about? I don't believe in evolution at all.

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#16
In reply to #4

Re: Chimps - Highly Evolved

04/18/2007 10:13 PM

Niether do chimps.

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#5

Re: Chimps - Highly Evolved

04/18/2007 12:26 AM

I remember having a talk with an old academic friend. I mentioned something about humans being the highest evolved creature...

My friend, looked at me dead-faced, raised his glasses and said, "More highly evolved? Bacteria are one of the most successful creatures we know of. What makes you think they aren't highly evolved? It's just toward a different strategy."

I had to reexamine my thinking.

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#6
In reply to #5

Re: Chimps - Highly Evolved

04/18/2007 3:56 AM

Quite. Equipment retrieved from the lunar surface and returned to Earth was found to have viable bacteria on-board that had apparently withstood the journey to the Moon and survived bombardment with unshielded solar radiation in the near-vacuum of the lunar surface. Remarkable.

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#12
In reply to #6

Re: Chimps - Highly Evolved

04/18/2007 5:32 PM

PWSlack writes: "Equipment retrieved from the lunar surface and returned to Earth was found to have viable bacteria on-board that had apparently withstood the journey to the Moon and survived bombardment with unshielded solar radiation in the near-vacuum of the lunar surface. Remarkable."

-----

Yet, thanks to preservatives and other chemicals routinely added to food, these same bacteria cannot survive on the junk from your typical vending machine or supermarket. They can withstand environments that would kill a human in under a minute, but they can't survive on our food. What does that say about what we are doing to ourselves?

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#15
In reply to #12

Re: Chimps - Highly Evolved

04/18/2007 10:10 PM

It tells me we're eating cleaner food. I definitely don't want those critters in me!

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#7

Re: Chimps - Highly Evolved

04/18/2007 6:03 AM

I would think that the shorter the generation time the quicker a species would evolve, everything else being equal.

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#8

Re: Chimps - Highly Evolved

04/18/2007 12:44 PM

Such discoveries are good for leading to more respect for nature, more humility and less arrogance. BHut how many will read the news?

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#9

Re: Chimps - Highly Evolved

04/18/2007 1:07 PM

Oh get real , or sign up for PETA WHAT A CROCK!

nuff said


Jon

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#10
In reply to #9

Re: Chimps - Highly Evolved

04/18/2007 2:12 PM

YAY for validation! My hypothesis is proved!

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#11
In reply to #10

Re: Chimps - Highly Evolved

04/18/2007 4:47 PM

Are the loonies still in charge of the asylum?

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#13
In reply to #11

Re: Chimps - Highly Evolved

04/18/2007 5:33 PM

We control the horizontal. We control the vertical. Do not touch the controls.

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#14
In reply to #9

Re: Chimps - Highly Evolved

04/18/2007 5:44 PM

What's "PETA WHAT A CROCK?" Where do I sign? Help me out here.

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#17

Re: Chimps - Highly Evolved

04/18/2007 11:22 PM

Evolution is simple. All organisms have genes and all genes mutate in the reproductive process. Most of the time, genetic mutations are detrimental to their host organisms. But, once in a while, genes mutate to the benefit of their host. Nature favors beneficial genetic mutations and rewards them by improved the hosts chances of baring offspring, thereby replicating the genes. This is how species give rise to new species over time.

But mutations alone do not determine the sophistication of a species. It is the quality of mutations, not the quantity, that determines a species level of sophistication. The more primitive a species is, the less time it takes to mature, the more often it reproduces and the more mutations it tends to carry. Modern humans are the most sophisticated organisms on earth because we take the longest time to mature. Primates mature much faster, they live shorter lives and reproduce more frequently so, it only makes sense that they should carry more mutations in their genes than humans do. They may have evolved more from our common ancestor but, we are clearly the more sophisticated species.

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#18
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Re: Chimps - Highly Evolved

04/19/2007 1:31 AM

More sophisticated mentally, perhaps. However, a chimp can out climb you, out run you, find food in the forest better than you, and basically, kick your butt.

Mental prowess is just one fork on the evolutionary tree. Like Gigantism in both dinosaurs and the earlier mammals, which turned out to be genetic dead end. Did you know that there were pygmy mammoths (an oxymoron?) running around Greenland during the time of the Pharaohs? Being too big didn't work anywhere on the Earth anymore!

Who knows, perhaps the reason why SETI doesn't get a call is because when a species gets too smart, Mother Nature doesn't favor that.

Boo-ma Boo-ma!!!

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#19
In reply to #18

Re: Chimps - Highly Evolved

04/19/2007 2:10 AM

"Being too big didn't work anywhere on the Earth anymore!"

-----

Detroit's having this same struggle - again. They never learn.

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#20
In reply to #17

Re: Chimps - Highly Evolved

04/19/2007 9:58 AM

When we become more successful than the common roach or rat, call me.

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#21
In reply to #20

Re: Chimps - Highly Evolved

04/19/2007 10:33 AM

Lawyers? NIH is using them for lab experiments in place of rats, you know. Why? There's more of 'em, and there's just some things you can't get a rat to do.

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#22

Re: Chimps - Highly Evolved

04/21/2007 4:00 PM

There is an update in New Scientist were they have now found chimps making spears from wood and using them as a weapon. Look out next time you see a chimp it could be thinking food.

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#23
In reply to #22

Re: Chimps - Highly Evolved

04/21/2007 8:11 PM

At first I thought you were joking. I should have known better. Anyway, here is a link to the article.

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn11234-spearwielding-chimps-snack-on-skewered-bushbabies.html

I think "spear" may be misleading, these chimps aren't using tactics and throwing spears, they're using sharp sticks to get into tree hollows. Still...amazing. The funny thing is I found the part about the chimps living in caves part time more disconcerning (barely mentioned, but there in the article). To this point "shelter" to a chimp consisted of a leaf to protect against the rain. To think they are living even if part time in caves is somewhat remarkable.

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#24
In reply to #23

Re: Chimps - Highly Evolved

04/21/2007 11:15 PM

By the way, many zoologists have observed chimpanzees using very clever group tactics when they're after meat. For the chimps, this means herding and cutting off monkeys in mid-swing.

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#25
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Re: Chimps - Highly Evolved

04/22/2007 3:36 PM

When they appear in court to lodge land registration rights, and come to drive cars, fire guns etc. Then I'll really worry about our place on this planet.

PLANET OF THE APES FOR REAL HUMANS HUNTED TO EXTINCTION.

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#28
In reply to #25

Re: Chimps - Highly Evolved

04/22/2007 10:36 PM

I think they did something far worse. I believe that the current theory is that chimps gave us AIDS. 40 million dead and counting.

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#29
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Re: Chimps - Highly Evolved

04/23/2007 4:44 AM

When digging a hole , it is advisable to take a ladder as you get progressively deeper ! Vermin ! - I thought I was mischievous . A spare cloak has been reserved for you.

Have to go , my head is clattering about on the ground .

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#26

Re: Chimps - Highly Evolved

04/22/2007 4:19 PM

Oprah has to change wardrobe every few months , does that equate to evolutionary perfection in her current form ? (Sorry O if you're reading , it was just a convenient example) . Let me be less offensive - My mate has a Mac that goes on merrily year by year , my evolving Windross keeps updating with no perceptible benefit.

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#27
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Re: Chimps - Highly Evolved

04/22/2007 5:51 PM

It's all about control, the windross organization thinks by only letting us have the software leased out it can control all computers. Now that's megalomania for you.

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#30
In reply to #27

Re: Chimps - Highly Evolved

04/23/2007 8:26 AM

Is there anything more chilling than when windows says something like "It looks like you're trying to write a letter, click here to launch windows letter assistant". You know the second you click it, Windows will try to download something, will hang, and you'll lose all your work.

Thanks for the help Microsoft.

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#33
In reply to #30

Re: Chimps - Highly Evolved

04/24/2007 12:51 AM

You know, Microsoft announced that they were going to gack that damn paper clip! So what happened to that?! He's still there! I can't believe that a sudden wave of paper clip lovers showed up at the last minute.

Madam la Farge, where are you now that we need you?!

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#31

Re: Chimps - Highly Evolved

04/23/2007 9:19 AM

This subject came up on the NPR show "Wait, Wait, Don't Tell Me" Saturday. When informed that DNA results showed chimps to be more evolved than humans, Paula Poundstone quipped, "But, who's the species looking at the DNA?"

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#32
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Re: Chimps - Highly Evolved

04/23/2007 11:43 AM

My dog spends huge ammounts of time studying small bits of his anatomy. So far , this preoccupation does not worry me (unless he's doing something I hadn't thought he was ).

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#34
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Re: Chimps - Highly Evolved

04/24/2007 12:55 AM

"The dogs knew that if they could just understand the door knob it would be a new age for dog-kind"

-Gary Larson

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#35
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Re: Chimps - Highly Evolved

04/24/2007 1:34 AM

Hey ! thanks vermin , he's great -

http://www.cartoonstock.com/directory/g/gary_larson.asp

I like the Cheese-slice one

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#36
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Re: Chimps - Highly Evolved

04/24/2007 2:04 AM

My favorite is the one where the guy in the sleeping bag has a scorpion on his nose, which is asking him very politely, "The others sent me up here to ask you if you wouldn't move around so much."

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#38
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Re: Chimps - Highly Evolved

04/24/2007 9:21 AM

My neighbor's dog has mastered this ability - at least on the fence gate.

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#39
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Re: Chimps - Highly Evolved

04/25/2007 2:54 AM

My dog is forever chasing his tail.

What will happen when he eventually caught it ? (Except r-evolve)

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#40
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Re: Chimps - Highly Evolved

04/25/2007 2:59 AM

He'll finally know the meaning of pain.

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#37

Re: Chimps - Highly Evolved

04/24/2007 9:04 AM

Humans - Highly Devolved ?

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