Isuzu Amigo 1991 2.6L Problems

Have you replaced the Fuel Filter?

Yes, I did that a while ago when I was first trying to check for the problem. I also did some diagnoses on my own from the repair manual in checking the fuel pump when I click the key to the on position.

Thanks for your response...it's still a mystery to me.

Have you checked the 710 cap?

In the meantime, STOP replacing stuff!

I think 710 cap is obscured by the Henway in an Amigo.

Okay, I'm not quite sure what a 710 cap is on my Amigo, nor what a Henway is but I can try looking that up in the repair manual.

710 cap looks like this. ^{I hope you can take a little teasing}

Add, gee whiz, I don't know either... what's a Henway? ^{Here comes some more}

LOL, wow was that funny! I'm using this the next time someone needs help...thanks for making a girl smile....

Now tell me the joke on the Henway thing....

(smiling)

Did I hear somebody say what's a Henway? ......................................... about three to four pounds.

_{Can I get a rim shot.}

What's a Henway... that just never gets old!

Press for Rimshot

I know, my dad says that to me all the time, and the old saying of "if it's not broke, not fix it"...LOL

But as a girl, I'm trying to figure this out and see if it's all tied into the ignition stuff. And of course the cheapest way to do this. Also, it's not like I'm doing this all in the same day, it's all taken place week after week.

But I'm trying, as I really like this car and have had it since it was on the Show Room floor when I bought in 1991. It has 144, thousand original miles on it with every maintenance paperwork in the world keep in a binder.

Almost everything you've replaced has been electrically related. I suspect that when you had your two diagnosis bills done you asked for a specific diagnosis done. (Read the computer emission codes, test the ignition system, etc.) You need to do a much more basic engine diagnosis before any parts or rework get accomplished. Since you've likely covered all of the critical electrical parts, I'd investigate your fuel system. I do not remember if an Isuzu Amigo had throttle body or multi-point fuel injection but I'd start with investigating this first. Next I'd do a compression test of your twenty year old cylinders.

Good Luck

Yes I figured it was tied into electrical so the first time I took it to a repair shop that specializes in the electrical components, but he could find the problem. That's when later I took it to the dealer.

I kind of figure the next thing would be fuel and it's multi-point injections system.

Can I get the compression test done anywhere, at any shop, or is this something I can do myself?

Thanks for your rely too...I appreciate all the help I can get.

You might be able to do a compression test yourself. It does require purchasing a new diagnostic tool to add to your arsenal, a compression gauge. So you may prefer having a shop do this test. To do the test you need to have a good strong battery. You remove all of the spark plugs from the engine and replace one spark plug with the compression gauge. Crank the engine with the starter and notice the pressure level you reach on all of your cylinders. Depending on the quality seal you get with all of your valves and your cylinder rings this will tell the mechanical integrity of your critical seals. At 140K and 20 years a tired motor with bad rings/ cylinder walls is not likely. Unfortunately for you it would not be impossible.

Come to think of it, the last time I did this test myself was with a vehicle that had a carburetor. You will have to remove the fuse for your fuel pump or your injectors will spray fuel into all of the cylinders. You probably should have a shop do this test.

I would not have a dealer do this test though. Isuzu no longer produces automobiles so their mechanics are use to a different scale and age of vehicle.

You're awesome! Thank you for such detail in doing this type of diagnoses. It truly sounds quite intensive and maybe I should have a reputable shop do this for me, maybe a foreign/japanese shop that specializes in Isuzu.

I don't want to purchase anymore tools (I've had to buy a few since I didn't know the difference between standard and metrics for this car until I was told).

I really appreciate your response and knowledge.

Try this, it will not do any harm: Drain a little feul into a clean bowl and see if there is water and dirt. If it does not have a drain plug on the tank, put half a bottle methilated spiritus in the feul tank or 500ml brake fluid....that should get rid of water.

Also a cupfull of any motor oil or half a liter diesel in the feul tank for sticky rings and valve guides.

Forget about a compression test, rather have a cylinder leakage test done which will pinpoint the problem if it is compression related.

jurie

Did the dealer or any decent technician tested and ruled out your fuel pump and/or it's circuitry?

Nope not yet...

Is this something I can do myself? I hate to pay the fees involved ....

Thanks for responding and giving me a suggestion to look for.

Afraid not this one. Hearing it spin is not a definite sign all's OK. Submerged fuel pumps are notorious for failing gradually and occasionally coming back to life for a while as zombies specially if you have the bad habit (like me) to keep your tank under half-full and worse if you run out of gas at least once. They're fuel lubricated and cooled and do suffer under these conditions, their brushes and bearings wear, stick,etc. So if you see yourself doing the above, definitely have someone test it until issue appears. S.M.

Okay, I'll play the game (even though I think that you being a girl has absolutely nothing to do with anything). Is this an automatic or manual transmission?

Describe the way it dies...i.e., chugging, engine dies suddenly, etc.

Do any (idiot) lights come on just before it dies? Which ones? What do the gauges read before it dies, i.e. volts, oil pressure, etc (if you have any)?

What are the codes telling you? The Haynes manual will tell you how to retrieve the codes for this pre-OBD system.

When you say it has a hard time catching, do you mean the starter engaging the flywheel, or catching as in actually starting?

You mentioned a new condenser coil. Soooo...it doesn't have electronic ignition? This seems odd for a 1991 vehicle. I am pretty sure you're not running a Rochester fuel injection here, so a condenser doesn't sound right. Do you mean ignition coil? An ignition coil feeds the distributor cap (center connection). A condenser coil is in the distributor, and is used with a points type ignition (old).

When you state high end plugs and wires, were they recommended for this application? I only ask because I have owned dozens of cars and tried dozens of brands of plugs and high-end doesn't always mean fully compatible. If you added a variable into the troubleshooting which would only exaggerate the symptoms under different circumstances...you may be running down a similar but entirely different scenario.

After the new manifold (junkyard or aftermarket?) how long did it run before returning to the issue? Is it the same issue, or just similar?

Ok,I have an amigo with 186k with some of the same issues. I have good compression on 2 cylinders. The third has 80lbs and the 4th 0. Could it be the head or the stuck or burnt valve?

A cylinder leakage test will tell you exactly what is wrong.

Wow, definately like you! You seem to really know your stuff....and yes being a girl sometimes does get in the way...I have the desire to learn, to do the work but sometimes I'm not taken seriously. So let me try answering everything you've asked:

It dies just suddenly, while driving everything will cut out like I turned the key off..then I'll pull over to the side and crank it over until it starts. I don't notice any check engine light, or anything else or I'd remember. It just simply stops (engine) and lately when I do get it running it's been okay, however it is very difficult to start (yes, engaging the flywheel and starting)

There are no codes showing.

LOL, it's lingo I guess but yes I meant ignition coil (the one that sits on top of the distributor cap) and the lingo for the condenser inside, I meant "rotor".

As for plugs and wires, I only purchased what the parts store guy told me to buy....all I know is I paid almost triple the cost of standard because I wanted quality.

Manifold was purchased new and the same problem never went away...just seemed like it was fine for the first couple of times driving it...it is the same issue.

One other thing I noticed today was the gas gauge indicator went up and slowly down but came back up again...I found that weird.

So, I went underneath the rear, tank side and look around all the contacts looked good to me. No corrosion, good contacts to the clips (I pulled them apart and check).

Hi Bill, thanks I will try doing that next time it happens and I've decided from reading everything here that I'm going to take the cheaper way on this and buy the Ignition Switch.... I know I know...I'm told to quit replacing parts, but after all it is an old car and maybe it's time for most of these parts to be replaced.

I plan to check all the wiring, period. It's an old car (repeating to myself) and who knows maybe I can find the problem and if not, then I know I've cleaned and checked all the connections.

So,as soon as the Ignition Switch comes in, I will report back to you.

You've been very helpful, thank you.

In general the problem with just replacing the parts you think maybe failing is that you cannot tell if the part failed from normal wear or if something else is causing it to fail prematurely. This sounds like an academic problem/perspective when you're talking about a twenty year old vehicle, but I believe that it is more pertinent with a twenty year old vehicle. I believe that you need to start testing failure mode conditions of your Amigo and not just feeding the parts store with your money.

Allow me focus on your fuel pump that you replaced last year. If you could test fuel pressure (pressure gauge) and electric current draw (ammeter) of your fuel pump, you could determine if your replaced fuel pump is still working properly but you can also determine if all of the other aging parts of your vehicle will allow a good fuel pump to get fuel into the combustion chamber. You might actually have some intermittently shorting wires that are overloading the contacts of your fuel pump relay. Your earlier fuel pump replacement temporarily moved these wires but now the short is happening again. This short maybe damaging the contacts of your relay along with causing your pump to cycle ON/OFF so many more times that the mechanical lifetime is getting shortened. Another plausible scenario is that you actually have two fuel filters (coarse and fine) somewhere in your fuel line system. The fine filter is the one that usually clogs shut so everyone knows how to find this one, but your root problem is actually the hidden coarse filter is getting clogged after twenty years. When you changed your fuel pump you switched an understandably weakened pump with a robust new pump. This extra pressure allowed more fuel to get past the clog in the coarse filter but has now wedged more gunk into this coarse filter. A pressure reading at all points along the fuel path will identify if this scenario is happening.

To keep a twenty year old vehicle running well for many more years requires knowing how well parts are operating.

There were so many responses overnight, someone may have covered this.

Your gas gauge's actions may be a clue. Basically, as I am sure you know, the engine does four things (four cycles): suck, squeeze, bang and blow. The engine is also basically an air compressor. If you don't have the gas to squeeze and bang, there is not blow and the engine stops. No fuel to compress, nothing to ignite...and the engine stops running.

One thing auto manufacturers started doing as time went on is consolidating the fuel pump, gas gauge and sometimes a filter assembly all into one and stuck it in the gas tank. The sending unit for your fuel gauge may be acting up according to what you stated. That would lead me to think that the fuel pump itself may be acting up and slowing or stopping the delivery of fuel and thus cutting the engine while it's being driven.

I am surprised that no codes are showing since fuel rail pressure and sending unit sanity is usually a part of any diagnostic routine. But, since it is a '91, I could see that as a possibility.

"the engine does four things (four cycles): suck, squeeze, bang and blow."

Classic, I'm using that one in the future.

Have you checked your fuel pump?It is performing well?The moment when switch on the ignition key, you can heard a whistling sound from the tank indicates that fuel pump is functioning.When you say that the engine stalls while driving, it most probably I suspect the fuel pump doesn't seems to perform well.It is a mechanical part and doesn't involved in getting a signal through engine light on while you driving.

Have you checked your fuel pump?It is performing well?

I May agree with RANJINDRAM.

I've had a "hard-starting & sudden-death" experience with a Mazda 626 sometime ago. After several diffecult & time consuming attempts to resolve the problem, I finally & very easily discovered that the fuel-line from the submerged fuel-pump to the injection-pump had an inbuilt conical filter. The filter was blocked! I cleared the filter and zoooooooom... my 626..... given wings.... could fly!

No more sudden-deaths AND the starting becomes normal considering an aged car.

I hope this helps.

Wow, I would so love it if this was the case! I do plan on getting the fuel pump checked and prior to this I will check the fuel filter myself and see if it's dirty or clogged, I did replace this at the same time as the fuel pump about a year and half ago, but you never know....right?

I thank you for your help and suggestion too.

Carren,

When it cuts out are there any common factors(either individually or in combination), ie low fuel (half tank or less), hot weather, having driven some distance .... etc?

Hi, I guess I never really checked when it behaved this way, if the fuel was low. I try not to keep it under half a tank because I'm always messing with it. And when I took it to get it Smogged the only fail on it was the Co2, should have been at 55 and it tested at 95. Then someone told me due to the fact that the car sits for so long (while trying to get it to run properly) the gas can get bad, so I put some additive/cleaner in the gas tank and filled it back to top. Now I just have to drive it around awhile to get rid of the old gas, fill it up again and take it back to be tested. So, in the mean time I'm trying to solve the problems, as I don't want the Smog technician having a problem getting it to crank over and failing Smog again.

The weather doesn't really seem to effect the cutting out, and I haven't been able to tell really if the distance plays a part in this too. I can go 10 miles and it happens, and I've gone over 30 miles in one shot and it will happen too.

Thanks for responding....everything helps and I do appreciate any thoughts on this from everyone. I'm willing to give anything a try and I'm going to purchase the Ignition Switch to see if that helps, but again I do know it's an old car. I've really taken very good care of it this far, and I did all the routine maintanence throughout it's years. So, I'll keep you posted with any changes.

Carren,

The reason I asked that question is because I had a similar problem a few years ago - the car (Peugeot 505 GTI) cut out on a long drive (150km) on a hot day (30+degC) when the fuel level got below 1/4 tank - wait 1/2 hour for it to cool down and it ran perfectly.

I found the problem - it has two fuel pumps high volume, low pressure in the tank and low volume high pressure in line feeding the injectors. The high pressure pump was perfect but the low pressure pump in the tank had worn out - replaced it and all was well.

Regards
Bill

I haven't checked the fuel pump because it was new about a year and a half ago, so I figured it was okay. I did do the test where I turned the key to on and heard the whinning sound so I know the fuel pump comes on. However, I haven't done it repeatedly, so maybe I can try that and see if it comes on intermittently.

I answered someone here, that mentioned the Iginition Switch, and that I would replace that to see if it's the problem. Mostly I know that the car is pretty old and replacing some of the parts that inexpensive is good anyway, so once I try that I'll report back here with the update.

I will take your advice and have the Fuel pump checked out and let you know.

Thanks for your suggestion.

Carrenr, Stop buying parts. That counter guy is driving a Rolls, and half of it is yours.

You know where the ignition coil is right? Go buy a cheap automotive marker light of some kind. Attach a length of electrical wire to the positive coil lead, and the other end of it to the positive wire for your light. Let the wire be long enough to let the light lay on the passenger side floor. Be sure to ground the light to the metal framework under the dash, or the door jam. Now drive the car. The light should stay lit as long as the ignition switch is on. If the light goes out when the car stalls, your problem is ignition related. If it stays on when the car dies, reconnect the wire from the ignition coil to the positive wire feeding the fuel pump. Again when the car dies, you will have learned some valuable information. You can do this. Cost should be under $10. Good luck and do not buy anything from Lyn-Door industries.

Make sure to tape up any wire connections.

have you tried replacing the fuel filter? if it's clog up it will cause that problem. i would at least check it , it can cause a lot of problems.

It seems like this might be a pile on, but i will throw a couple of pennies in the mix. And yes, I have read through all the posts so far - and some excellent responses with good ones thrown in.

Let me say that I have not worked on your type of vehicle, but have turned wrenches on older and newer vehicles. So far this is what I have gleaned: your car will cut out rather unpredictably and all of a sudden. No warnings and no lights come on, and your CO (or was it CO2?) was a little high last you ran it through for emissions. You have replaced a ton of stuff, mostly electrical (and mostly ignition related) but also including a new fuel pump, filter and intake manifold. You also mentioned that the problem seemed to go away for a brief period after the intake was replaced.

I would not run any additives to lower emissions, just regular gas and some good highway driving (don't premium either). Although checking for a second fuel filter is a good idea, I don't think this would cause the kind of intermittent sudden problem you are having. Typically when the ignition fails it is like you said, like you turned off the key. With fuel failure its like you run out of gas.

There is a real easy way to tell if it is ignition or fuel: (I know you don't want to buy more tools but this is the cheapest way) go to Harbor Freight or auto parts store and pick up an "inline ignition spark checker". The next time it cuts out, install it and crank the engine and see if there is a spark. No spark = ignition/electrical problem, spark = fuel related problem.

Now keep in mind that no spark does not necessarily mean it is an ignition component that is bad - it could be as simple as a loose wire or a loose ground. In fact I would lean toward a loose ground wire/loose wire which could be cutting out the ignition system. I would also check out giggling the ignition switch to see if it will restart. In fact you might want to see about giggling the switch whiling it is running to see if you can get it to die (a la, your problem solved).

So, if the key giggling does not work, my next recommendation would be to pop the hood while the engine is running and start giggling wires (but not your spark plug wires!), especially those that would have to be moved/removed to replace the intake. I know this must be very frustrating, but hopefully this will help. It is also possible that some wire insulation may have failed causing an intermittent short to ground. If it turns out the ignition is OK, it could be a wire problem on the fuel side. Let us know what you find, and good luck.

Thank you Johnathan!

It was the ignition switch, but I did replace the fuel filter first just in case.

My problem has been solved, yeah it took about a month but with you and everyone here helping me, I fixed my vehicle! I'm a happy girl.

Glad to hear it is working correctly again. You do know that the guy in the auto parts store is going to have to put his kids in public school now.

I had a similar prob many years ago (Citroen Xantia 2L). To cut a long story short.
Take off the throttle body air intake and all that stuff and clean it all and blow it out the old fashioned way.
There are small pilot airholes and such like which will kill the slow running if not clear.
The old ways still do the job sometimes in our throwaway fit a new ECU society.
Mine was an ex company car which was being service by the main dealer and they couldn't fix it, because the diagnostics couldn't tell 'em what to change.
So being a good guy I went and told them what it was. Would you believe it, they immediately phoned the service HQ and got the diagnostic database updated.... nah, just kidding. They gave me blank stare.
Del

Yeah! I did it! Took about a month but I tried a lot of the things everyone here told me to try and you guys are great in my book.

Now for the answer to this problem: I replaced the ignition switch and it starts everytime and purrrrs like a kitten.

Thank you to all!

i had an 1990 isuzu amigo that would shut off while running and would steady turn over until it fired and ran.. turn out after checking everything it was a loss fuse in the dash board.. check them fuses by shaking them and turning the engine over.. also it could be the temp sencer the the intake i also had an problem with that before..

<...(before this car kills me)...>

Before that happens, do consider solving all the problems by presenting the thing for recycling.

_{There eventually comes a point where enough is enough.}