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Power Distribution

08/05/2011 9:14 AM

why is in india, power is generally transmitted in 11 kv,33kv,66kv etc and not in 12 kv 36 kv 72 kv etc??????

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Guru
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#1

Re: power distribution

08/05/2011 9:15 AM

Well, doesn't it depend upon the standardisation of the volt as a unit of measurement?

For example, one invents a new unit of electrical potential called the banana = 11kV.

Power is then transmitted at 1 banana, 3 banana, 6 banana, etc.

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Guru

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#2
In reply to #1

Re: power distribution

08/05/2011 9:34 AM

Does this mean that I have 1/50 Banana at my home´s outlet socket´s? Weird, ain´t it?

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Guru
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#3
In reply to #2

Re: power distribution

08/05/2011 9:43 AM

For some reason, a few individuals get really interested in the number 11, and multiples of 11, as if there was some higher significance. There isn't. It's just like wondering why the sky is blue during the day when there are few clouds.

Many electric guitar amplifiers' volume control knobs go to 11. Now, that's weird!

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#4
In reply to #3

Re: power distribution

08/05/2011 9:56 AM

Well, they may have invented an UNDECIMAL system, to replace the obsolete French decimal units

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Guru
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#5

Re: power distribution

08/05/2011 10:11 AM

11 is a decimal bakers dozen (10+1)

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Guru

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#6
In reply to #5

Re: power distribution

08/05/2011 10:18 AM

Many years ago, before the milk became bottled, it was said that the milkman sold "christened" milk.... cause he added water to it, he must have learned that from your baker´s dozen!

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#7
In reply to #6

Re: power distribution

08/05/2011 11:12 AM

In that time the health inspector told the helping hand of the milkman to stop adding dirty water to the milk

reply - no Sir we only add clean water.

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#8

Re: power distribution

08/05/2011 11:48 AM

I thought you guys had Hindu leanings over there.

In that case, why ask why?

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#9

Re: power distribution

08/05/2011 1:05 PM

The electricity distribution in India was started by British. So whatever are the voltage levels used, they are the same as followed in Great Britian.

As far as the multiples of 11 kv is considered, I feel, it is adopted as standard because Form Factor of sinusoidal AC wave is 1.1

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#10
In reply to #9

Re: power distribution

08/05/2011 3:48 PM

So if I use square wave power, do I use 10kV distribution?

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#11

Re: power distribution

08/06/2011 8:52 AM

THE MAGIC OF THE MULTIPLES OF 11

Foreword:

The author has been coming across the following question repeatedly from the participants in his training programmes. Many other electrical professionals and electrical engineering students would also be having the same question in their minds, but only hesitant to ask anybody. An attempt is made here by the author to answer this question.

Question: Why Transmission, distribution and utilization voltages are in multiples of 11, as in 110V, 220V, 440V, 1.1kV, 3.3kV, 6.6kV, 11kV, 22kV, 33kV, 66kV, 110kV, 132kV & 220kV?

Answer: It is true only with respect to AC power systems. The first known man-made source of electricity is a cell, which is DC in nature. But, after realizing the disadvantages of the DC electric equipments, AC Electricity generating machines were invented. When these AC Machines were developed, the power of these machines was to be compared with the already available DC electricity, as it is human tendency to compare anything new with the existing ones. As in the case of steam engines.

When steam engines were invented, the power of the steam engines was compared with that of the horses, which were the power sources before the invention of the steam engine.

So, a value called RMS Value for AC Electricity was derived which compared the effectiveness of the AC Electricity with that of the DC Electricity. This value is the Effective Value of AC Electricity. As we were more interested in knowing the effect of AC electricity, all measuring instruments were and are designed to measure only the RMS value of AC electricity - may it be Voltage, Current, Power, etc.

But, for the designer sitting in the design lab, more than the effective value, the average value over a period on one sinusoidal cycle of AC Electricity was important. So, he designed an AC electric Generator, which would produce, on an average, a voltage over a period of one cycle, of say, 10kV (10 is a round figure, you know).

But, when this machine was built to the design and put to operation and when the output voltage was measured, it was found to be 11kV, as the meter was measuring NOT the average value but the effective or the RMS value. This relation existed for any voltage. So, a factor was arrived at - relating the RMS value and the average value, called Form Factor, which is the ratio of RMS value to the Average value, which for a sinusoidal wave form was about 1.1. Then, when the voltage was to be transformed, it was easy to have a whole number for the turns ratio of the transformer and hence all subsequent AC voltages became multiples of 11.

********

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#12

Re: power distribution

08/07/2011 6:52 AM

This is what had been taught at our class too. Then as we grew up, it became a bit open to debate and now in the age of computer it is more debatable

- wiki says it is just historical.

- Some of the literature interpret it as the factor which had been arrived with an assumption of 10% line drop from generation point to the load point. Highly debatable, but might have been though so at that time.

Now as per as the form factor is there - it is supposed to be derived (mathematically) somewhere around early 1900, by Lord Kelvin. It is too near the first electricity generation/ distribution to be of the real significant to designer.

BTW: First AC electricity generation/ distribution -

Mill Creek- USA generation 10KV

London Deptford (the first in UK) - 10KV

So the generation was not initially in terms of the Form-factor. Of course the transformer is the one then we (or the designer would have been least bothered about)

The user - Here the form factor comes in. But then what should be the formfactor (some times there are two of them - peak-FF - Peak(or amplitude)/ RMS or the Average to RMS)

If one considers the comparison of AC to DC then of course we should not bother about the Average - RMS

For DC it is the peak and for AC it is RMS (for similar power) and for insulation of AC too it is the peak. The average of the AC is more of mathematical significance (or comes in picture when one rectifies the current which was not the thing that was done then).

The Peak Form factor for AC is 1.414 (1/0.707) and not 1.1

The problem I feel must have not started from either. It might be from the metering. The primal D'Arsonval meters used to measure the average value of the wave and not the rms or peak to peak. So the multiplication factor of 1.11 was necessary there (which might have been in built in the meter itself)

So let us say the meter measures 0.63V then the scale marked at this position as 0.707 V (for equal power and then that becomes equal to 0.707V of DC power)

But the main catch with all this is - the power transmission the OP and numerous other threads had been discussing on and not distribution. All this what logics of FF boils down to is at the sink and not the source (and then the source from the beginning itself had been in KVs and from there coming down to whether multiples of 10 or 11 or 12 - it is the transformer ratio only, and that won't have forced the ancients to change the generation (even now it is rarely in multiples of 11) or transmission voltage.

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