A Silly Idea!

A close range sonic boom can break windows and seriously disturb some animals. The effects are reduced as distance increases.

A low altitude high subsonic speed flyover with afterburner is VERY impressive.

Good, keep them coming, let me hear the plus and minus points! By the way, I suppose the loudness of the sonic boom will depend on the size of object making it, does it increase with speed?

I'll second that - I sat in the stadium at the Sydney Olympics closing ceremony when they did one of these right over my head (felt like about 10 feet above my head). It was just on evening and it scared the bejeesus out of me... but very impressive.

My guess is a sonic boom is very unlikely to be allowed over a city, unless it's so high that it would just sound like distant thunder.

Distant jets going really fast just above the horizon also look extremely impressive - maybe then you could throw in a sonic boom too (you also get to see them for longer than when they're screaming over your head).

I agree, that's the way to go. If it's two, three or four jets, all the more impressive.

Recently on a quiet Sunday afternoon I was inside working on my computer. I had heard jets flying low overhead and had gone outside several times to see three fighter jets making lazy sweeping synchronized turns, an unusual sight and impressive and beautiful to watch, but after going out a few times to see them I concentrated on my computer work.

But then there was such a roar and the windows and whole house shook and I raced outside to see but was too late, they had gone. My wife was working outside in the yard and had the boom-box radio blasting with the Red Sox game. They were just at the beginning with announcements and the singing of the National Anthem. It seemed only seconds later when I heard the jets again, through the radio, as they made a low stadium flyover with afterburners going. The audience roared and the announcer was yelling.

I heard later from friends who were in the stadium that it was extremely impressive. Evidently they started somewhere past my house and made a straight high-speed run to the stadium, blasting all the way.

Here's a U-Tube video that shows what it's like in the stadium. Wow!

Far more impressive than a sonic boom (I heard many of those as a boy in Southern California near a practice range).

Here's a single F15 doing flyovers at an airshow.

Winfield, bet you anything that those aircraft were most likely F-15Cs of the 104th Fighter Wing of the Mass. Air National Guard, based at Barnes Municipal Airport in Westfield MA! They used to operate the A-10 Thunderbolt II (aka The Warthog), until the traded up for the F-15Cs that used to be based at Otis AFB (out on Cape Cod).....yes, the very same F-15s of the 101st Fighter Interceptor Squadron/102nd TFW of the Massachusetts ANG that were scrambled to intercept the hijacked airliners used to rash into the WTC towers on 9-11, but arrived over NYC airspace too late.

Interesting! Maybe. Do the pilots in the Air Nat'l Guard wings practice three-plane synchronized flying and occasionally perform in public? Or would it be a touring group of air-force performers?

Winfield, the answer is yes. The ANG and AFRES pilots do the same things as their USAF counterparts, meaning they are trained to the same degree.

In a lot of cases, the ANG and AFRES pilots have many more flying hours and years experience than USAF pilots.....many are former USAF pilots themselves, and a great many are airline pilots.

My kid brother for instance, just recently retired a Lt. Colonel in the NJ ANG (177th Fighter Wing, the "Jersey Devils", based at Atlantic City Int'l. Airport) with nearly 28 years of flying and over 8,000 flight hours under his belt. That's a hell of a lot of hours sitting in an Aluminum can! In the USAF he flew the T-38, F-4E Phantom II, and the F-15A/B. When he joined the ANG he began flying Convair F-106A Delta Darts, an incredibly fast Fighter Interceptor first introduced in he early 1960's, but still fully capable into the early 1980's when they were retired from service. Incidental, the NJANG was the last unit in the USAF/ANG/AFRES to operate it. NORAD would scramble them to intercept Soviet strategic bombers (Badgers, Bears & Bison) flying down our eastern seaboard. Later, the NJANG traded in their aging F-106 for the General Dynamics F-16C.

F-15C up grade? Your talking two planes build about the same time for different functions. F-15 as a fighter and the A-10 as close air support. It's the only plane the air force built of it's kind and it made a very impressive showing in the first gulf war. It's first time in combat.

They may have end up down here with the 175th Maryland Air National Guard. The Wing did so good with them in the first gulf war. That they added another squadron. Maybe soon a third.

You sure the change wasn't some macho thing the guys up there have going. Their need for speed and to look good behind the wheel.

Hi ozzb, maybe the term I used "upgrade" wasn't the best one to use. Possibly "transition" is a better word.

The 102nd FW of the MAANG, based at Otis on Cape Cod, stopped their flying mission. I do not know whether their unit colors have been retired, but their F-15C Eagles (upgraded F-15A Eagles) were transferred to the 104th FW of the MAANG, based at Barnes Municipal Airport in Westfield MA. They have taken over the Fighter Interceptor roll and are under control of the Northeast Air Defense Command of NORAD, which is based at Griffiss AFB in Rome NY (the only part left of that former SAC base).

The A-10s that the 104th once flew went to other state ANGs. I think one of them was the Wisconsin ANG, but don't quote me on that as I need to go do a info research online to be absolutely positive. I'm not sure about any transfers of A-10s to the Maryland ANG, but that is possible given an increase in their aircraft and Wing expansion. Yeah, the 175th FW of the MDANG did an outstanding job during the air campaign of Desert Storm. If I'm not mistaken, they were based at Price Sultan Royal Saudi AF Base near Al Kardj....the same base were the 174th TFW "Boys from Syracuse" (NYANG) with their F-16A Falcons (they were one of the few dedicated ground attack F-16 units w/ their LANTIRN targeting pods in the Gulf) were stationed. I know this because one of my former college roomies flew with the "Boys", first as an A-10 pilot and later the F-16A followed by the F-16C.

I have nothing but praise for the A-10 and its pilots saved my and my unit's bacon during an Iraqi airfield overrun where they provided CAS for us that decimated the Iraqi's holding the field. I would have loved to see the 104th keep them, but that isn't for me to decide....it was an USAF decision, probably brought on by budget chopping (as usual).

As a former Grunt, I still think that we need more A-10's, not less of them.....or a more modern upgrade that's faster too! For resiliency, nothing beats a Hog! One tough SOB in my book; I saw several come back from combat sorties, while visiting the Prince Sultan base (visiting with my brother and my former roomie) all shot up where you wonder how some of them could fly at all.

BTW, the 174th FW traded in their F-16C Falcons for drones about 2 years ago! ACKKKK!!! What a waste of good pilot experience!!!! DOUBLE ACCCKKKKK!!!! That unit has a very long history of flying the ground support mission, and did an outstanding job during DS. After the war, even USAF General Horner praised the unit for it's performance (see the original "Wings Over The Gulf" episode with the F-16 segment that the first aired in 1992 and recently shown again on the "Military Channel").

Let me guess, you're a window salesman?

No, but I already patented the idea ! :-)

Not a good time globally for bangs. A blown tire could cause heart attacks. Just wait for lyn to read this. S.M.

I'm bracing myself for it ! :-)

Are you the same anonymous poser that harbours an extreme dislike for the sound of motorcycles?

Noope! (I do sign my APs) --> S.M.

What a silly idea ! More silly than mine.

There are no good points to the idea.

Your air force flies F-16's, not F-15's.

I think it's an excellent idea, if you can pull it off. When you give the pilot his instructions, tell him not to go too low, he might break ear drums, too.

The RSAF does have F-15s. They're called the F-15SG. I've got a much better idea. The F-15 pilots should go supersonic over Parliamnet House. Maybe this will clean out the ears and restore the hearings of the 81 deaf frogs in white there.

DVader1000,
You've been gone so long that I thought you had fallen in the pool again.
I stand corrected.

I am not a Singaporean , I work here. On your second point, I think you have been very misinformed!.

Then, you would have no power to cause a jet, of any type, to overfly the air show?

What good are you?

No worry, anyone can make suggestion.

May you get many more 'silly' ideas like this ! This is a superb idea. Singapore is a beautiful place, a favourite place of mine (i am sorry that i haven't been able to come once again there), and after the extravaganza of Sentosa island etc, this sonic boom thing is a GREAT idea...go ahead ! More power to you !!!

Anything with nice billowy contrails....................especially colored ones.

Nooooo...our boys in the red Hawks do that!

Was it done in public show? I would very much like to know,seriously .

Yes.... way back I used to visit the Farnborough air show every year with my parents.

Back then they were allowed to fly supersonic at low level and to this day the thought of seeing an English Electric Lightning flying past with out a whisper, only 100 yards away and then the enormity of the sonic boom and the noise afterwards, certainly made me want to understand how on earth it worked like that!!!

After a couple of crashes in the early 60s the planes weren't allowed to fly over the crowd and they had to fly sub-sonic. This took a lot of the fun out of the air show....

If you've never experienced a low level (100 feet) supersonic fly by then you won't understand the reason why I'm remembering those days so vividly....

John.

Early 60s??! I remember mid-80s standing on the runway at Brize Norton as the Vulcan flew directly above us...totally amazing. It was banned just after this...

Red Arrows

I was referring to the coloured smoke and The Red Arrows....sorry if I was a little too cryptic

Knowing I will be crucified for my opinion I shall speak: I love airplanes, in particular those with piston engines and love to see them in museums or exhibitions. Air shows are great, but when it comes to aerial exhibitions, the organizers have a certain tendency to push the limits resulting in disasters like mid-air crashes, planes disintegrating during flight, spreading all kind of debris over the tribunes, and stuff like that. Unless the planes fly their rutines at a safe distance from the public, I would forget the idea. Breaking the sound barrier above the public is completely crazy to me: it is a tremendous blast that can produce hearing trauma, heart attacks, broken windows, dead poultry, lawsuits .... If looking for some adrenaline I´d rather drop napalm

No worry, the aerial show area is out on sea, away from shore. I am sure the expert can control the boom level, people here won't worry about the chicken not laying their eggs but tourists not laying their dollars!

The sonic boom is quite an experience, during the early 50's when the cold war was high the Canadian air force would frequently create the booms at high altitude and on the ground you got a bit of a shaking. Loved them then some windows got broken and other complaints and they were banned in populated areas. They did one in Trenton Ontario by accident after an air show. US pilot with a F16 I believe. He was called back for a reprimand and a round of applause from the Canadian service men & women..Again some windows were shattered.

roy, didn't that F-16 sonic boom incident occur at the London International Airshow/Air Tattoo held in London ONT? Great show BTW if you've never been to it!

I seem to remember reading about it a few years back....

Very good idea ! GA for you.

Yeah, just what I said.... drop some Napalm!

I saw a simulated napalm drop at the Ottawa air show a few years back. all the fuel was actually on the ground... but it was 1 km long... and a half km away from the crowd.. then an aircraft flew over to simulate the drop....and the heat wave was awesome. they also simulated some rocket fire to ground targets..

but at the same show they had a hovering Harrier Jump Jet, hovering about 50 feet from us.... now THAT was awesome!

chris

Got to agree, having a Harrier "bow" at you is awesome!

I don't think the UK have ever done the Napalm sim...or any other bomb run.

I've been looking (unsuccessfully) for a video of the harrier doing a vertical take-off, then standing on its tail in mid-air before shooting skyward. Saw that done at Leuchars, and at a naval show at Rosyth in the 70s. It was banned soon after, as someone flipped one trying it!

Geeezzz, I have tons of USMC AV-8B Harrier takeoffs, hovers and zzzzooommmbys on video from a whole bunch of airshows around here...somewhere...

Of course it's on ancient VHS video tapes and was originally taken by me with a SONY 8mm camcorder years ago.

I dunno how to convert VHS to digital format, nor do I have the equipment to do so...bummer!!!!!!!

Do wish that I had seen those RAF Lightnings (F.3 ?) and Avro Vulcan that you guys in the UK mentioned seeing at your airshows! I envy you chaps! One of these days I'll get to one of the airshows there!!!

Hooker, see yeah there Bro......on Bondie Beach for sure!!!! Been a long long time for me too! hehhehhehe love those Aussie Sheilas!!!

There is nothing like a great air show I was blown away by the F14 at the time passing the reviewing stand standing on its tail then exiting straight up to out of sight. To make it even better the F14 on static display allowed an up-close viewing of two massive engines and some wings. Never forgot that one.

Yup. seen this a few times at Brize Norton airshows, different planes each time. Very cool.

Old Salt, just a friendly correction to your post......no intended sniping, okay?

The USAF Thunderbirds fly the General Dynamics F-16C Fighting Falcon, whereas the USN Blue Angels fly the McDonnell-Douglas F/A-18C Hornet.

Those explosions that you mention are not set off by C-4 plastic, but regular every day fireworks detonators (hard-wired/electronically fired) because using military plastique is against Federal Law (BATF) and is highly dangerous. The folks who set up the ground explosions to sim dropped bombs and/or napalm are licensed fireworks companies. The air museum I used to belong to a decade ago used such pyrotechnics, especially for the CAF Tora Tora Tora act.....of course we did it for the large WWII bomber flybys at the end of our annual show (B-17s, B-24s, B-25s, A-26, B-26 and Lancaster)....ditto for the modern jet fighters. Great fun for the attending public as it threw off a ton of heat and was extremely loud!

I stand corrected, it was the USAF Thunder-birds. Most often at McGuire AFB in central NJ. What is most impressive is standing out there looking up the afterburner as the jet climbs straight up. Very impressive sight and especially sound. Much too fast for the camera and video camera that I had. Gave up on filming and just enjoyed the show.

The explosions were set off by C-4 by the USAF EOD personnel from the air base that the shows were conducted at. As they were prepping for the show they showed it to us and let us "handle" it. I have used C-4 previously and since then and it was the real thing. C-4 is not dangerous if handled correctly. Once attended a training course where it was dropped from a height of 15' with no effect to it or the surroundings. The danger of its use comes not from the secondary explosive C-4 but the primary explosive blasting cap that is used to detonate the C-4. They permitted us to assist them in "bagging the bags" but not placing the fuel or the explosives while they and we were in open view of the other AF personnel and visitors. They were legitimate USAF EOD personnel.

They were very nice to us especially after we winched their van out of a small drainage ditch.

Don't know about the Federal laws but each time I have used it was in a legitimate usage.

Good Luck, Old Salt

oldsalt, I stand corrected. I didn't know that USAF EOD personnel were rigging the explosives at that show.

Yes, I'm very familiar with McGuire AFB in NJ. I've been there many times for the Commander's Day Open House & Air show. It's too bad they didn't hold it this year.....next year is hopefully still on. My kid brother recently retired a Lt. Col. from the NJ Air National Guard. He flew F-16C Fighting Falcons with the "Jersey Devils" based at Atlantic City IAP

Yeppers, I know all about C-4 as I have handled and detonated it many many times...too many times to remember. I was a Captain in the Army, and my last command was a USAR Engineer Company.....basically Heavy Construction Ops and Combat Engineers.

Ahhh, love to blow up things....lots of things; including bridges, structures, and trees! hahahha

Here's a photograph taken at one of Thunderbirds less more impressive displays.

Apparently he set the altimeter QNH pressure incorrectly and as a result was too low to pull out of a split S manoeuvre. Less than a second after the photo was taken the aircraft hit the ground and broke into a million itty bitty pieces. The photographer also needed to change his underwear as well.

masu, that's one very impressive pic! Betcha the photag that took it had to change his undies later.... LOL

If you want to see an incredible low level high speed pass by a fighter, then check out this video clip of a West German F-4F Phantom II making several passes over an airfield. The 3rd pass was a close one, especially for the airmen standing on a big dirt mound......watch them dive for Terra Firma real quick like! LOL

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ApM_f-jBlP0&feature=related

[BTW, I built an almost exact copy of this aircraft back in 2002, even down to the camo paint scheme and markings.....a heavily modified 1/32 scale Revell F-4F Phantom II of the West German Luftwaffe, with plenty of aftermarket resin upgrades, photo-etched brass pieces built-in, and aftermarket decals. I entered it into the International Plastic Modeler Society (IPMS-USA) 2002 "Nationals" held in Virginia Beach VA that year. It placed 3rd in it's category. Not bad for the first time entering anything into the Nationals. If I can find it in it's storage box down in the basement I'll try to take a few pics of it and post them here, even if it's broken in a few places....

If you really want to see something incredibly impressive and Earth-shaking, watch an USAF B-1B Lancer strategic bomber on it's take-of roll with all 4 engines in afterburner! The last time I videotaped one doing so (at the air show in Westfield MA), the air and ground shock so violently I had an awfully hard time taping it in pan mode as the camcorder shaking equally as bad, even though I had the camera on a vibration resistance tripod! OMG was that loud!!!!

Following the SR-71 the B-1B has to be one of my favourite aircraft and one of the most beautiful, in fact I have a ¹/₄₈ scale model of one hanging above my head as I type this message.

I particularly like this image of one pushing it through the sound barrier.

CAn anyone explain why there is cloud around the plane body when crossing sound barrier?

Doesn't happen all the time. It's condensation of water vapor under pressure.

Hooker

Hooker is correct......the water vapor is being condensed (pressurized) due to the high speed passage of the aircraft. You have to have pretty high humidity in the air for it to occur.

Notice how the water vapor is almost "linear" along the aircraft body, or at least in the front portion of the body? That occurrence aptly demonstrates the Laminar Flow design characteristics of the aircraft with surface friction losses...

Good adds, Cap. Just to complete the picture, the vapor is a visual display of the actual shock wave as the wave moves aft as the aircraft accelerates from subsonic, through transonic and finally into supersonic speeds. When the aircraft exceeds mach 1 the shock wave moves aft of the aircraft, the pressure is reduced (or at least less localized to the fuselage) and the water vapor is no longer condensed.

I'll never forget the time I first saw this phenomenon in an ionized gas wind tunnel as I was tangentially learning aerodynamics when I was a research machinist apprentice. The wave is always there in transonic flight. We just need to find ways to make it visible. High humidity is one way!

Also, there may be multiple waves depending on the aircraft design. I've seen forward canards produce their own separate waves.

Hooker

Forward canards, like those found on the B-1B Lancer and RAF/Luftwaffe Eurofighter (Typhoon I)?

One and the same, and others!

Hooker

Actually the water vapour is condensing just behind the shock wave where there is a sudden drop in pressure. Remember, the lower the atmospheric pressure the less water vapour it can hold not the other way round.

Ohhhhh, one of my favorite aircraft of all time, the Rockwell B-1B Lancer!HEEEHHHEEEHHHHEEE!!!!!!

I built the 1/48 scale plastic model made by Revell about 4 years ago. It sported a whole bunch of resin and brass photo-etch aftermarket pieces to upgrade the kit. I used aftermarket high quality decals for a real life aircraft based at Ellsworth AFB....I also painted it in "Euro I" camouflage scheme that was used in the 1980's. Took me 8 months to build it and was a labor of love. That model was so huge (almost 39 inches long nose to tail), and I had a hell of a time transporting it to the IPMS Region 1 Model Show and Contest in Poughkeepsie. When I arrived at the show I found out that I had broken off all 3 landing gear during the transport (damn pot holes!)! I was putting it back together with superglue and accelerator minutes before the contest was to begin! Talking about pressure mounting! ACKKK!

Anyhow, I did get a 1st Place finish for it in "Modern Jets - Multiple Engines" category and 3rd Place overall in the contest. I eventually sold it on Ebay for $1250 to a group of Lancer pilots at Ellsworth to present to their departing Commanding Officer who was retiring. I hope he enjoys it as much as I did, as it's museum quality and mounted on a walnut base with polished brass plaque tags! Sometimes I wish that I hadn't sold it, but it's so bloody huge and I had a hard time finding a good safe display place for it!!! Ohhh well, maybe it's time to build another one!

One very kewl plane (both the real deal and the Revell Model)!!! Now IF I could only find the digital pics that I took of it......

Also another good idea!

After the Red Bull air race in Perth the R.A.A.F. flew one over at low altitude, the noise from this was awesome. The pilot did the vertical climb as well and went so high that it could no longer be seen, fantastic stuff.

The most awe inspiring trick was when he "flew" at an angle of about 60° to the river surface at a very slow rate of advancement, maybe just 30km/hr.

The Singapore pilots trained in Perth maybe they can do this stuff as well.

Another good idea!

I HAVE EXPERIENCE SONIC BOOM HERE IN MUMBAI MANY YEARS BACK, MANY SHOW CASES GOT BROKEN, MANY PEOPLE GOT SCARED, ANIMALS GOT FRIGHTENED. NEVER THINK OF IT.BETTER BURST CRACKERS ON GROUND OR WHEN FIGHTER JETS FLY OVER CITY THEY MAKE HELL OF NOISE.

About 20 plus years ago the RAAF were putting on an air show at their base north of Adelaide. Part of the display involved comparing the performance of the Mirage fighters that were being retired and the FA-18 hornets which were replacing them.

Somehow during the display one of the Mirage pilots was pulling a high G turn at Mach 0.95 when he encountered turbulence from one of the FA-18s and as a result he had to drop out of the turn and lower the nose of the Mirage.

Guess what? Yep the Mirage suddenly went through the sound barrier and caused a sonic boom. Even worse was the fact that directly underneath him at the time were acres of glass houses that are used to grow flowers and things like tomatoes out of season.

I don't recall there being any complaints of hearing damage or other health effects but it cost the RAAF a fortune replacing broken glass in the glass houses and the ceiling in a house that collapsed.

So, I don't think the health effects are too much to worry about but sonic booms, especially at low levels can cause a phenomenal amount of damage even to the point of structural damage to buildings.

However, having said that, the Mythbusters did an episode on exactly this and they found that the damaging effect drops off dramatically with distance and if the aircraft is more than a few hundred feet off the ground at the time the damage is usually minimal.

PS: The link will take you to a YouTube copy of the Mythbusters episode, happy viewing.

Very good input, GA.

A sonic boom during a low level high speed pass isn't a great idea, as it'll shatter windows (incl. car ones) and eardrums for miles around.

Case in point: I'm suffered from 30% hearing loss in both ears (yeah I go to the VAMC up in Albany for this disability, and others) due to several F-16 low level high speed passes during Desert Storm back in '91...in the Iraqi desert. Those sonic boom also blew out the windshields on our HUMMERS!

Okay, from actual experience as a former member on an airshow planning committee (former and now defunct National Warplane Museum, Elmira NY) for several years I can make some suggestions to you that'll be real crowd pleaser's.

Get the the Aussies to send some of their RAAF F-111C/G Aardvarks (some of their aircraft are former USAF SAC FB-111A....later re-designated F-111G). They do a hell of a great low level pass routine..also do fuel dump they light on fire with their afterburners. Nothing like a "swing-wing" fighter doing knife edge pass low level folding back it's wings and then hitting the ABs! The F-14D Tomcat used to do this routine at lot of airshows...Former USN Lt. Commander Snodgrass came to our airshow for several years in row and did this with his Cat, starting with the annual airshow at Batavia NY back in 1996. Later when the USN retire the F-14, Snodgrass flew his F-14D to our museum where it was demilitarized and donated to the museum...where it sat on display inside the main aircraft wing until the museum closed-up it's doors due to fiscal problems.

The RAF, German Luftwaffe, or the Italian AF have Panavia Tornados that are incredibly awesome during a low level high subsonic pass! I was instrumental in getting both the Brits and German to send their Tornados down from Canada 2 years in a row to attend our annual airshows in the late 90's......they use to train low level flights out of Cold Lake CFAB.

The S. Korean AF and the Japanese JSDF both fly the F-15 Eagle (F-15S and F-15J, respectively)......maybe a visit from one of those AF's is possible.

WWII & Korean War vintage Warbirds are always a crowd pleaser! Lots of them located down in Oz, even old F-86 Sabres built in CA and Oz! Problem is the ferrying range, mostly over open ocean!

I could go on and on about airshows.....love 'em!!!

Very interesting, hope to hear more of it , much appreciate your input . Definitely a GA!

Bad answer.... see my post above about the Farnborough air shows....

never was one windscreen or window dameged by a low (100 foot high) super sonic fly by.

Okay there was a few crashes that caused the fly bys to be limited to sub-sonic as wel.... oh read my above post.....

• "Get the the Aussies to send some of their RAAF F-111C/G Aardvarks"

I'm very sorry to say that unfortunately and very much to my disappointment the RAAF decommissioned their last F-111 aircraft about 12 months ago so there are now none left flying anywhere in the world.

OHHHH MAN, DON'T TELL ME SO.....THAT THE LAST VARK HAS DIED!!????

And I was in the planning stages to come visit Ozland this upcoming year specially to attend some of your airshows just to see the RAAF Aardvarks flying before they retired them...guess I'm a little too late....so so sad a day for me knowing this news/

Ahhhh well, here's always the gorgeous Shelia's on the beach to watch!!!! Maybe I ought to visit Adelaide and pop-in to see an old Aussie lassy flame after all........

I'll meetcha at Bondi Beach. Gotta go see what it's like after 41 years away!!

We can toast the passing of the Varks and Shuttles...

Hooker

I'll meetcha at Bondi Beach. Gotta go see what it's like after 41 years away!! We can toast the passing of the Varks and Shuttles...

You can count me in on that one, actually I only live three beaches to south of Bondi and I can tell you that after 41 years its changed a hell of a lot.

The passing of the Varks and Shuttles was definitely a sad day indeed. Hopefully some museum that keeps aircraft in flying conditions like the Temora Aviation Museum will be able to get their mitts on one and enough spare parts to keep one flying for many years to come.

That dump and burn that the F-111s do is definitely an impressive site and hot enough to cook any missile homing in on its tail.

A sonic boom? Is that the best you can come up with? You should have been in Harlingen, Texas in 1991 for the 50th anniversary attack on Pearl Harbor by the Confederate Air Force. Japanese aircraft on bombing and strafing runs with ground explosions, smoke, flames, and in the middle of it all a one-wheel touch-and-go by a B-17 with 2 engines smoking. 20 minutes of pure adrenaline. Now that was an air show!

It's a bit off topic but since this thread is about aviation buffs liking loud and very fast things I though you may be interested in a video clip entitled Top 10 Low Pass Flybys.

The last one is particularly impressive and going by the shock wave the aircraft is producing was flown by a now ex Blue Angels pilot.

Sonic Boom?

Elementary, dear Watson! Any well handled whip can do at least 20 sonic booms a minute. Have 100, 200 herdsmen handle whips, synchronized or delay synchronized, and you'll have a variable duration sonic boom. Secure! No lethal accidents! No need to bribe dignitaries (tisk, tisk!)

I've been at Mildenhall Airshows (UK) when a Tornado did a low and fast (subsonic) pass and it shook the parked cars so much that many alarms went off. The new Typhoon is also VERY loud but I've not seen it low and fast.

One of the replies seemed to imply the writer had witnessed a Vulcan creating a sonic boom - it is another very loud aeroplane but it is subsonic. We still have one flying in the UK, run by charity.

OK, that's not it, it is a very large model. I don't have a pic of the real one on this PC.

The place I work at is very near a major airport. One day 2 Harrier jets were coming into the airport together and one slowed down to let the second catch up and he turned his exhaust downward to hover to almost a complete stop, and he was hovering 100 feet in the air just above our parking lot. I have never heard such a roar and any sound so load. It set off a hndred car alarms. What a sound of power. If 1 or 2 or more harriers hovered above an event such as a stadium it would be such an impressive display. It would thrill the crowd in my view more than a sonic boom which sometimes occurs farther away or is hard to control where it occurs

I'm being a real spoil sport on this thread because I'm told that the RAAF have now decommissioned all their Harriers.

This image supposedly shows their last fly pass of the English parliament house.

However, I think the US Marines still operate them so if they are ever demonstrating their harriers and you have a chance of seeing them gab it because the Harriers are yet another fantastic aircraft that's on the endangered species list and will probably go extinct in the not too distant future.

So sorry to hear that the RAAF retired their Harriers, just like the Aardvarks! BUMMER!!!! so, what did they replace them with, F-18 Hornets?

The RAF and RN still operate Harriers the last time I checked, but will be replacing them with the F-35 Lightning II when it begins production in earnest (if they ever get over the development and testing woes....and the damn cost overruns!). Ditto with the USMC which still operates the AV-8B Harrier II.

Hey, doesn't Spain operate Harriers? I think I came across an article to the effect some time ago....but, I may be mistaken on that account.

Please disregard this post.

Sorry about that the reference in my post to RAAF should have been to the RAF who have now I am told decommissioned their harriers. Unfortunately the RAAF never operated harriers and I'm not quite sure why considering how big Australia is and how few and far apart airfields are that can handle jet powered aircraft. The harrier would have been fantastic because you can build a base for harriers out of a pile of 200 litre drums of Jet A1 just about anywhere in our millions of square kilometres of desert. It would definitely make them very difficult to find and keep a track of.

The F-111s were fantastic because it gave us the ability to attack the capital cities of several of or neighbouring countries, something that they couldn't do to us. Currently they are being temporarily replaced with super Hornets while we wait for the Joint Strike Fighter plan to get to fruition and deliver the aircraft we have on order.

There was also pressure being put on the US government to allow us to purchase F-22 Raptors as well, but at the moment the US government won't sell them to anybody.

• "Hey, doesn't Spain operate Harriers?"

According to Wikipedia the UK, USA, Spain, India and Thailand were the only countries that operated Harriers.

"RAAF never operated harriers and I'm not quite sure why ..."

Combat range is too small. Sea

• "Combat range is too small."

The combat range of just about everything is too small for Australia.

I used to live in Adelaide but had to work on computer systems around Darwin so once a month I would fly there and spend a week or more driving out to the mines where the computers were located. That's like having to fly from London to Moscow then driving a further 200 km out and 200 km back every day just to get to the customers.

That's what would make the Harrier brilliant because all you need for a forward operations base is to air drop the fuel and munitions into a reasonably clear part of the desert (we have millions of square kilometres of that) and operate the Harriers from there. Of course you also have inflight refuelling so getting them to anywhere within the continental mainland wouldn't be difficult.

As for an offensive strike against another country the only thing that we had that could do it were the F-111s which had the range to get to certain Asian capital cities and back to the mainland without refuelling. Now we have absolutely no offensive capability whatsoever unless we reactivate the F-111s which isn't likely to happen due to lack of spare parts and the age of the airframes.

What we really need is a couple of squadrons of B1-Bs. Yes they are old but they have the range we need for an offensive strike and can carry a decent load of ordinance.

"What we really need is a couple of squadrons of B1-Bs. Yes they are old but they have the range we need for an offensive strike and can carry a decent load of ordinance."

are you planning a civil war?

No, just an effective defence system that can cover the thousands of kilometres it would need to in a realistic time frame.

Then again, if somebody wanted to invade they first have to get past the box jellyfish, crocodiles, sharks (that's if the crocks haven't eaten them all) and a whole plethora of other marine nasties like the Irukandji jellyfish and venomous sea snakes. Then once you get to the shore you have the ten most venomous snakes in the world to worry about, numerous venomous spiders, no water, roads, railways, trees, cover, etcetera for at least 3,000 kilometres and that's just to get to somewhere like Perth or Adelaide.

But seriously, for a realistic defence force we need aircraft that can cover at least 6,000 km sorties so they can get from the population centres in the south east to the north west where any sort of invasion would come from. It's literally thousands of kilometres from airfield to airfield which would make something like the harrier which can operate out of temporary sites that can be set up via air drops and operate without runways the perfect sort of aircraft for us.

We are involved with the joint strike fighter program and intend to purchase a considerable number of them but whether any of them will be the VTOL version I have no idea. Anyway, it's past 02:00 here is Sydney so it's time for all good masus to say good night and I'll catch you all later.

Okay, what was I thinking....the RAAF never had Harriers. My Bad! DUH!!! LOL

If it's not too late, spare parts for the F-111's can be found at the "Boneyard" located at Davis-Monthan AFB located outside Tucson, AZ........if they haven't been scraped yet.

Surprised that the RAF and RN already retired their Harriers and Sea Harriers (respectively) before receiving the up and coming F-35. Are you sure that the UK has already done this?

I don't think that the USAF would be willing to part with any of their B-1B Lancers anytime soon, as they're being used quite a bit right now nailing Taliban and Al Queda....

It's surprizing how often so called out of date and retired aircraft have to be brought back into service. A couple of examples spring to mind:

• Falkland's War: What long range bombers do we have that can hit the Falklands from the UK? Well we have the Vulcan bomber that has the range. Good let's use them, oh sh*t didn't we decomission them a couple of years back? Hmm we'd better see if we can dust them off and get them flying again.
• Second Gulf War: We need a high speed recognisance aircraft, what did we use in the last gulf war? The SR-71 blackbird sir. Good let's use them again, oh sh*t didn't we decommission them a couple of years back. Hmm we'd better see if we can dust them off and get them flying again.
• Etcetera
• Etcetera
• Etcetera

In a slight turnaround of the decommission-recommission saga the B1 was one of those off again on again projects that ended up being drastically modified between its prototype and final production variant. I'll bet the people in command are now happy that the B1-B did eventually come to fruition even if it was stripped of its supersonic cruse and supersonic low level approach capabilities. I'm not sure about this but weren't a host of B1-Bs decommissioned a few years back? If so are thy just overworking the remainders or have the yet again recommissioned the decommissioned aircraft.

Then you have the let's replace the B-52 scenario. So far the B-52 has outlived all of its so called replacements to the point that the aircraft are now older than the pilots that are flying the darn things. Also there's nothing on the horizon to replace them so they are going to be around for probably decades more by which time they'll be older than the average person.