Radioactivity in Fracking Overburden

Get a RADIAC and do it yourself.

If you want unbiased opinions and what you consider hard fact there is no better source of information than "me".

I would invest in some PPE as well.

Thanks - and yes, I do realize that I'm referring to natural radiation present in the shale. I think that's an issue with what is known as Marcella shales in NY, PA & OH

There's a ton of information here: Radiation in Marcellus Shale Wastewater? | ShaleBlog.com

and many other sites to choose from. You might even find an unbiased report, or two somewhere.

Bringing the "overburden" to the surface with radioactive material is the entire problem.

What overburden? I'm not aware that fracking produces overburden.

Are you suggesting that radioactive materials are injected into the earth as part of this process?

What is your motivation for wanting to know?

I doubt you will find many who do not have opinions. Just depends if you are in the oil business or are drinking polluted water from your previously pristine water well.

Welcome to CR4.

Thanks - and no, I am referring to natural radiation in the shale

OK, then Usbport's response is valid and I concur with it. _{(Like it matters that I concur.)}

I am heartily grateful that you concur.

Stop it!

I think if you were doing your own search for information and could not find anything in a relational search engine (like our friends at Google), it may be the result of your use of the term "overburden". That refers to the waste material ON TOP of an excavation, frequently used in discussions of different controversies such as "mountain top removal" in the coal mining industry. There is no "overburden" in the fracking industry, they just start drilling in the dirt.

If you change your search terms to "drill tailings" you will get a lot more return, you also might want to add in "frack flowback" and "production brine", the other areas of concern for the observed increase in radium isotopes being found in the waste materials associated with fracture mining.

How the heck this relates to electrical engineering, I haven't a clue.

"How the heck this relates to electrical engineering, I haven't a clue"

Perhaps an electric drill is used

You don't get it? Radioactivity begins with radio; radios run of electricity.

"Radioactivity begins with radio; radios run of electricity."

D'oh!

The logic that is bringing you guys to your conclusions suggests you are ready for careers in politics.

I'm thinking law.

the mobile radiation is the gas radon, the heaviest member of the noble gasses.

Radon

It diffuses upwards to the atmosphere through the rock, the short half life makes it very radioactive.

When you frack, the radon formed is able to enter the gas stream and reach the gas collection system. I am not sure of the gas people extract it? or otherwise deal with it.

http://citizensvoice.com/news/fracking-releases-radon-1.1076085#axzz1VRM5ixlq

http://nucleargreen.blogspot.com/2010/03/radon-as-harbinger-of-cornucopia.html

This concern may be realistic; however:

1. Wouldn't a short half life mean the radon is mostly deteriorated by now?

2. How does the term "overburden" really apply? In strip, pit, or mountaintop mining, the overburden must be removed to get to the ore layer. In fracking, this covering layer remains in place, largely (though not perfectly) undisturbed.

Radon is created by the progenitor elements, as listed. Overburden limits the passage of radon. Fracking creates a fast track

That computes better. [Two senses of "overburden": 1) something to be removed to reach the desired materials; 2) something that confines possible buried nasties.]

Since fracking is an operation that takes place deep underground, the likelihood is very remote that radon gas might be released and be able to percolate up through the layers of rock and soil above it in any significant amount.

The problem with radon gas is its accumulation in poorly vented areas in homes, such as crawlspaces, where the concentrations might become high enough to be a health hazard. The solution, though, is simple -- increased ventilation of the poorly vented space by installing a fan to flush air through the space.

In an open area where the fracking would take place, even if some radon somehow managed to percolate up to the surface it would simply dissipate into the air.

I think radon is a non-issue here.

????

Since fracking is an operation that takes place deep underground, the likelihood is very remote that radon gas might be released and be able to percolate up through the layers of rock and soil above it in any significant amount.

The problem with radon gas is its accumulation in poorly vented areas in homes, such as crawlspaces, where the concentrations might become high enough to be a health hazard. The solution, though, is simple -- increased ventilation of the poorly vented space by installing a fan to flush air through the space.

In an open area where the fracking would take place, even if some radon somehow managed to percolate up to the surface it would simply dissipate into the air.

I think radon is a non-issue here.?????

In case you did not notice, fracking is designed to increase the area of the rock with dissolved gasses in it, methane as well as radon and some other stray gasses. Both will find an easy path and enter the gas stream that flows from the well. The radon path via diffusion from the fracking zone through the overburden of rock, clay and soil will be greater than the flow of natural gas through the rock, since radon binds to nothing at all, being an inert gas, and natural gas binds to various materials to a greater degree. That said, the bulk of the natural gas exits via the piping, as does the radon. I doubt they extract the radon?? do they??, (remember, that decay will eliminate it quickly and the daughter products are less radio-active.) so it gets sent to all of us and enter the atmosphere when the natural gas is burned.

I think you are correct that radon should not be at issue here. I want to apologize to all participants because of my use of the word overburden. This was not really about overburden but the issue came to me via a lawyer - so, as all good scientists and engineers do, I will blame the *^#!@ lawyers! It is really an issue with boring spoil into shales that have a relatively "high" level of natural radiation from very low levels of uranium within the shales. The shale in question is known as the Marcellus shale and is used for fracking in NY, PA and OH. It has been attacked by the anti-fracking groups because of the low levels of radiation present. I was just trying to get an update on the issue and found a good basic paper by just googling "fracking". Sorry for any misdirection caused by my initial entry into CR4. But I must say I was amazed by the prompt responses - and thank all of those who emailed on this subject. Thanks again and next time I will be more circumspect about my request.

Now that we've all had a chance to prove our superior intelligence, it's good to have you here. People misplace posts all the time, it's no big deal. Sometimes, one of the mods will move it. It just gives us something to rag on you about. You will find that often there is as much joking going on as true scientific rational discussion. Then, there's bath breaking. I'll leave it to you to discover what that is.

Stick around, you'll fit right in.

Lyn

so when the radon gas is being pumped out of the ground (with the oil and gas), and running in a pipeline for many kilometers to the processing plants (which I live near one)... what is the radiation levels around the pipeline and processing plants?

Go into the bathroom, turn out all the lights, and look at your teeth in the mirror.

Do they glow?

ha ha ha...

You are correct - I changed the question and obtained the answer I needed. And you are also correct that this has NOTHING to do with electrical engineering. This is my first encounter with CR4 - did I check the wrong box somewhere?

Well, overburden is everything above the ore/rock of interest, the loose earth is the first degree of overburden, and it the usual overburden, then whatever rock before you reach the gas zone. In open pit mining overburden is removed, with underground mining you sink a shaft through it, with shale gas, you drill through it.

Hi Steve,

Welcome to CR4. A better choice to post would have been the General section or possibly civil engineering, but don't worry about it. I am now subscribed to this 'Fracking' thread.

S