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HDD Capacity

09/27/2011 3:36 AM

Hello Guys,

I just bought a toshiba laptop,whose specification state that hard disc capacity is 640GB. Upon receiving it, I checked and could only read that it has 580GB. What does this mean?

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#1

Re: HDD capacity

09/27/2011 3:40 AM

You are growing forgetful...you are growing forgetful...you are growing forgetful...and sleepy, too...

--Svengali

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#2
In reply to #1

Re: HDD capacity

09/27/2011 3:48 AM

I am looking for answers not for arrogant!!!

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#3
In reply to #2

Re: HDD capacity

09/27/2011 3:53 AM

The memory on someone's computer is inversely proportional to the memory in his brain.

--Tornado's Law of Mnemonic Conservation

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#4
In reply to #3

Re: HDD capacity

09/27/2011 5:10 AM

That excatly works for you,Tornado.Does talking to much proofs ur knowledge?!...

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#5
In reply to #4

Re: HDD capacity

09/27/2011 5:25 AM

You can try to have it your way, but you will lose. How sad.

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#6
In reply to #5

Re: HDD capacity

09/27/2011 5:39 AM

I expect you to say 'I do not know'.But you try to appear knowledgable while u donot.u know someone passed in admitting that?

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#7
In reply to #6

Re: HDD capacity

09/27/2011 6:12 AM

Could you please translate that into properly composed and understandable language?

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#24
In reply to #2

Re: HDD capacity

09/28/2011 3:13 AM

Don't be so arrogant, you haven't paid any of us for the help you need, nor for the humor which appears to be going right over your head........

Cool down and be friendly.

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#35
In reply to #2

Re: HDD capacity

09/28/2011 4:16 PM

Look in a mirror, you will find "arrogant" immediately!!!

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#37
In reply to #35

Re: HDD capacity

09/30/2011 1:18 AM

Andy, I wanted to give you a "good answer". The arrogance of a few "know it all's" is sickening.

I enjoy CR4 most of the time until some of the ones, who have no life but to post incessently, and have an answer for all things on CR4, start attacking someone for the way they post or the questions they ask. They need to realize that english might not be their 1st language and that their customs are not the same. I don't know about the poster's particulars but he deserves an apology for the comments made to him.

He asked a good legitamate question for something he didn't understand and as I understand it that's what CR4 is about.

The "know it all' gang have brought no honor to themseves or to CR4.

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#8

Re: HDD capacity

09/27/2011 6:55 AM

And what did you use to read that capacity?

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#9

Re: HDD capacity

09/27/2011 7:04 AM

Manufacturer's figure give you the total capacity on the media, what your computer give you the available usable file storage space. The difference is the 'overhead', i.e., for storing information related to file structure , e.g . the file allocation table (FAT) .

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#10
In reply to #9

Re: HDD capacity

09/27/2011 7:16 AM

Bravo88 is correct, but to clarify, your hard drive is partitioned and the difference between what is stated and what you see is that partition that is used to control the hard drive. Drew K

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#11
In reply to #10

Re: HDD capacity

09/27/2011 7:46 AM

In addition there maybe a partition with an image of the OS and any software installed by the manufacture. That provides a one key reboot of the system to it's original purchased state. And I don't think that any manufacturer has been able to mass produce them with every sector readable. So there is some minor loss from designed capacity.

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#21
In reply to #11

Re: HDD capacity

09/27/2011 2:13 PM

GA

You can check ozzb's suggestion. Bearing in mind the other things like the File Allocation Table and other stuff already mentioned, is the "missing" space approximately equal in size to the installed software?

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#12

Re: HDD Capacity

09/27/2011 9:55 AM

Let me make a tangible real world analogy for you that explains what has happened. You buy a wooden file cabinet with an outer dimension of 3 cubic meters (1*1.5*2). You measure the available storage space and you find that only 2.75 cubic meters of storage is available for your files. You ask the manufacturer of the file cabinet why you lost 0.25 cubic meters of space on the phone. They just giggle and hang up. You next go to the carpenter's guild hall and ask them where your space went. The first guy you meet decides that he's tired of answering stupid questions for free and tries to console you with a simple joke. Instead of seeing the humour you are insulted that you were not given a straight answer to your question. Pity.

Because the real answer where your missing space went is that it went inside the Tardis. That's why its the only thing known to be bigger on the inside than it is on the outside. It takes all the little bits of space missing from other objects to make more room.

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#13

Re: HDD Capacity

09/27/2011 10:15 AM

It means you have 580GB of useable storgae on your HDD. What's so hard to understand?

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#16
In reply to #13

Re: HDD Capacity

09/27/2011 10:59 AM
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#18
In reply to #16

Re: HDD Capacity

09/27/2011 12:10 PM

I know how much I know!

I know enough not to ask stupid questions.

I also know enough not to be arrogant when I'm asking for help.

Both are things that you should learn.

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Anonymous Poster #1
#25
In reply to #18

Re: HDD Capacity

09/28/2011 3:18 AM

GA

Well put.

The OP has not demonstrated that he is even worth helping up to now.......or that he has the necessary brain cells to understand either!!

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#20
In reply to #16

Re: HDD Capacity

09/27/2011 1:51 PM

I fail to see how your linked site supports you. It says the same things being said here.

Especially the comment: "So just make sure you are informed and know what you will be getting."

Do you know the earth is, more or less, a sphere?

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#14

Re: HDD Capacity

09/27/2011 10:32 AM

....and why is that too small?

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#15

Re: HDD Capacity

09/27/2011 10:51 AM

Because the physical capacity (what is always advertised) and the formatted capacity are NEVER the same for the reasons I will not repeat because they were explained so well previously.

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#17

Re: HDD Capacity

09/27/2011 11:24 AM

One other thing nobody touched on that is very common since vendors stoped shipping disks. Recovery partition. With the reinstall image located on it to restore the machine to the as shipped state.

It is sometimes Hidden, but there in many machines.

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#19

Re: HDD Capacity

09/27/2011 1:42 PM

Besides partitioning and operating system (windows takes a fair chunk), you have to take into account the installed software; some times theyr'e "utilities" you'll never use.

And talking about Windows, it doesn't only take up a lot of space on your hard drive, but it does also consume a whole bunch of your machine resources and slows down applications, which is worsened by software manufacturers who write everything for windows and sacrifice speed and performance for a cute stupid interface with 3D icons and whistles.

I'm sure the veterans remember how fast and efficient was to automate using DOS based software.

Don't feel they robbed you, all the media space is in there, it is just deceitfuly advertised.

I know, even an asterisk directing you to pretty damn small letters at the bottompage would be appreciated, but...

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#22

Re: HDD Capacity

09/27/2011 10:45 PM

Some space is used for your recovery partition, some is used by windows itself and your programs, what remains is reported in gibIbytes by windows (1024*1024*1024 bytes), whereas hardware manufacturers quote their drive sizes in gigAbytes (1000x1000x1000 bytes) to make their drives sound bigger.

see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mebibyte

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#29
In reply to #22

Re: HDD Capacity

09/28/2011 1:23 PM

See the link below. It suggests that both windows and HDD manufacturers are "correct" based on the different definitions of GB in different standards. Looks like this is the major reason for the difference in HDD capacity; the other reasons mentioned (FAT e.t.c) are equally valid but secondary.

http://www.technical-assistance.co.uk/kb/hddsize.php

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#30
In reply to #29

Re: HDD Capacity

09/28/2011 1:53 PM

First off, that article assumes Windows from the get-go.

Secondly, the article immediately delves into the binary description of data blocks.

Therefore, the other reasons mentioned (FAT, etc.) are actually primarily responsible since the formatting of the drive and resultant "reduction" of disk space takes place before the operating system (OS: i.e., Windows) is even loaded.

The block size on the disk is ultimately responsible for the disk space used. that is decided by the formatting of the drive (FAT, NTFS, HSFS, etc). As I stated before, if a hexadecimal formatting scheme is undertaken versus an octal scheme (data block "bytes") then drive space would be gained. Increasing the data block size decreases the amount of formatting needed.

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#23

Re: HDD Capacity

09/27/2011 11:53 PM

The difference is that the larger number is unformatted space. The final or lower value is formatted space. Formatting the HDD takes up space.

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#26

Re: HDD Capacity

09/28/2011 10:43 AM
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#28
In reply to #26

Re: HDD Capacity

09/28/2011 12:36 PM

I'll give you the GA due to accurate information. The usable size is directly related to the type of formatting performed on the drive. The table you provided explains why actual data is using the space by showing the binary multiples rule.

If you formatted the drive with an OS which used hexadecimal data storage you would recover more space. Longer word length would require less formatting. It all adds up, especially with today's drive sizes.

As the formatting algorithms changed over the years a standard format was devised in which everyone could get along. This is necessary especially in light of the internet and the interconnectivity it brought about.

Years ago Commodore advertised its top-of-the-line computer, the 64, based on memory size. We all knew it actually had 65,536 bytes (8-bit) of memory and used it to it's full extent through custom programming and formatting of that space. The same logic that applies to physical memory (RAM) applies to hard drives.

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#27

Re: HDD Capacity

09/28/2011 12:27 PM

Possibly using 1 000 (k) instead of 1 024 (K) for kilo?

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#31

Re: HDD Capacity

09/28/2011 2:10 PM

This thread is even more a waste of time than: Stopping Coronal Mass Ejections and Earth Quakes

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#32
In reply to #31

Re: HDD Capacity

09/28/2011 2:14 PM

Damn Lyn...

I was just doing some catch-up...and I was on that link!!! I was looking at that goof-ball's web page when you posted.

Wow...that's freaky!

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#33
In reply to #32

Re: HDD Capacity

09/28/2011 2:18 PM

I can't understand why we wste time on some arrogant person who doesn't understand what we're saying to them anyway.

This applies to both threads, too.

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#34
In reply to #32

Re: HDD Capacity

09/28/2011 2:19 PM

Maybe the next "emergency crisis" that mankind will have to sacrifice to "prevent" will be preventing the eventual supernova or burning out of the sun.

Yeah.....way.........wayyyyyyyyyyy off topic.

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#38
In reply to #31

Re: HDD Capacity

10/03/2011 5:04 PM

Hey I was able to find some nice freeze dried food because of that thread !!

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#36

Re: HDD Capacity

09/29/2011 1:57 AM

It's mostly a binary<>decimal conversion misunderstanding.

When one kilo-Byte is defined as 1000 Bytes (decimal, typical for hard drives)
640000000000 = 640.0 GB (= 640 * 1000 * 1000 * 1000)

When one kilo-Byte is defined as 1024 (2^10) Bytes (binary, typical for software applications)
640000000000 = 596.0 GB (= 596 * 1024 * 1024 * 1024)

Let's assume the drive is properly recognized by the bios and is partitioned and formatted. The partition and formatting structure will use some of the drive capacity. As already stated above, many laptops are shipped with recovery, OS, and application software stored in a special hidden recovery partition. This could easily use 10-15 GB of the drive capacity.

The reporting software should give you an available drive capacity ranging from ~580 GB up to 640 GB depending on all the factors listed above. IMO this is not a drive problem since the drive manufacturers usually state their definition of kilo-Byte. It is typically the "software" which does not define which kilo-Byte it uses to calculate drive space.

As for bad sectors, modern hard drives are designed with "spare" sectors. On a new drive there are always enough good sectors to meet the specified capacity. The remaining spare sectors are used to re-locate data when some of the original sectors begin to produce errors. This happens in the drive itself. The computer and user are typically not flagged until the reallocation of sectors (or some other problem) becomes significant.

SMART firmware in the drive will usually send out a warning message when the drive is no longer reliable. If the motherboard and OS accept SMART data, the user will be advised that a backup and drive replacement should happen ASAP! If you know how to query the SMART firmware, you can get a detailed report of the actual drive history and its current status at any time.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S.M.A.R.T.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binary_prefix#Inconsistent_use_of_units

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#39

Re: HDD Capacity

10/08/2011 8:55 AM

640 GB is un-formatted capacity of HDD, when you install Operating System; it will format it to create index and File allocation table. So it is showing less capacity what-ever shown on HDD or in specification.

This is general and apply to anyone not only Toshiba.

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#40
In reply to #39

Re: HDD Capacity

10/08/2011 8:02 PM

Where do you think the OS lives?

Have a look in to the history of PC's. In the good old days the OS lived on a 5½" disk, which had to be loaded before you could put the disk in with your program.

DOS = Disk Operating System!

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#41
In reply to #40

Re: HDD Capacity

10/08/2011 8:39 PM

OS lives in the nebulous ether with all the other software fairies and trolls.

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#42
In reply to #41

Re: HDD Capacity

10/09/2011 4:01 AM

LOL!!

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