Previous in Forum: Relation Of Transients Fault Current With Generator Speed   Next in Forum: Brushless DC and AC Motor Design
Close
Close
Close
11 comments
Rate Comments: Nested
Guru

Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 2061
Good Answers: 169

Drop Off Voltage of Contactors

04/18/2012 10:24 AM

Vide Clause 7.2.1.2 of IEC 60947-4-1, the drop-off voltage of electro-magnetic contactors with AC Coils is 75% to 20% and for DC Coils is 75% to 10%. I would like to know why there is this extra 10% flexibility for DC coils?

Register to Reply
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.
Guru
India - Member - New Member

Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Temporarily at Ashburn, VA
Posts: 2744
Good Answers: 164
#1

Re: Drop off Voltage of Contactors

04/18/2012 11:05 AM

Just my opinion. May not be the right reason.

DC coils in contactors can be (a) economy resistor type, (b) double-coil type or (c) fully, continuously rated for the control voltage. The last one is the most reliable type (no late-break NC with its own problems), so much so that many industries like steel plants mandate the use of only such DC coils.

Now coming to your question, it is somewhat easier to achieve a 20% or even 40% drop-off in (a) and (b) types. Not so easy in (c). Bearing in mind that the coil must pick up cleanly at ≈80% when hot ! Quite a challenging design problem, since the coil can reach 100°C easily.

__________________
Nothing worthwhile can ever be taught, it can only be learnt.
Register to Reply
Guru
India - Member - New Member

Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Temporarily at Ashburn, VA
Posts: 2744
Good Answers: 164
#9
In reply to #1

Re: Drop off Voltage of Contactors

04/18/2012 11:48 PM

i am getting more convinced that this is really the reason.

An extract from the Tesys catalogue of Schneider/Telemecanique shows that the dropoff voltage window starts at 10% for the continuous-rated magnet (image below) of the first two frames, and is 15% for the double coil. (The pickup and sealed consumption values also show the nature of the magnet system)

A nice patent here .. http://www.google.com/patents?id=cGI5AAAAEBAJ&printsec=abstract&zoom=4#v=onepage&q&f=false

__________________
Nothing worthwhile can ever be taught, it can only be learnt.
Register to Reply
Guru
United Kingdom - Member - Indeterminate Engineering Fields - Control Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: In the bothy, 7 chains down the line from Dodman's Lane level crossing, in the nation formerly known as Great Britain. Kettle's on.
Posts: 32175
Good Answers: 839
#2

Re: Drop Off Voltage of Contactors

04/18/2012 11:38 AM

Is it anything to do with alternating current crossing through zero at twice the supply frequency and the magnetic field reversing at twice the supply frequency? - Full-wave-rectified, unsmoothed DC hits zero at twice the incoming AC frequency too, though the magnetic field doesn't actually reverse.

__________________
"Did you get my e-mail?" - "The biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place" - George Bernard Shaw, 1856
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 2061
Good Answers: 169
#3
In reply to #2

Re: Drop Off Voltage of Contactors

04/18/2012 12:14 PM

But the drop off is same even for DC supply from a station battery bank.

Register to Reply
Guru
United Kingdom - Member - Indeterminate Engineering Fields - Control Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: In the bothy, 7 chains down the line from Dodman's Lane level crossing, in the nation formerly known as Great Britain. Kettle's on.
Posts: 32175
Good Answers: 839
#4
In reply to #3

Re: Drop Off Voltage of Contactors

04/18/2012 12:28 PM

Indeed. Just asking.

__________________
"Did you get my e-mail?" - "The biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place" - George Bernard Shaw, 1856
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Cd. Juarez, Chihuahua, Mexico.
Posts: 1023
Good Answers: 69
#5
In reply to #4

Re: Drop Off Voltage of Contactors

04/18/2012 1:03 PM

I'd say you're right, in the case of AC contactors, at 20% of the voltage, you don't have 100% duty cycle but a couple zero crossings every 16 mSecs. that, for me opens a couple of weakened flux windows, which will lead to the release of the laminated core due to the pulling action of the spring.

Regards

__________________
No hay conocimiento ni herramienta que sustituya al sentido comun.
Register to Reply
Guru
Engineering Fields - Electrical Engineering - Been there, done that. Engineering Fields - Control Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Long Island NY
Posts: 15600
Good Answers: 981
#6

Re: Drop Off Voltage of Contactors

04/18/2012 2:26 PM

The hysteresis in the magnetic iron core of the electromagnet can prevent drop off a little longer with a DC field because the core may still be slightly magnetic when current is released. Remember, this specification identifies the range that drop off is acceptable for a contactor. This is not a designer's specification but an operations specification.

__________________
"Don't disturb my circles." translation of Archimedes last words
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Mallorca, Spain
Posts: 567
Good Answers: 15
#7

Re: Drop Off Voltage of Contactors

04/18/2012 7:07 PM

Redfred has the answer. The core of a contactor is soft iron and should not retain any magnetism , however it does and this will be the reason why dc coils will hold on longer as this is always of the same polarity and not reversed by the ac, as mentioned by others.

If you need a contactor to release at a higher voltage you need to add a non magnetic pole piece between the armature and the core nose. A piece of paper will work as a one off solution. This will also make it release quicker.

regards

capblanc

__________________
En la casa del herrero, cuchillos de palo!
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Etats Unis
Posts: 1871
Good Answers: 45
#8
In reply to #7

Re: Drop Off Voltage of Contactors

04/18/2012 10:23 PM

Be careful with modifying the magnetic circuit on an AC contactor. Doing so significantly lowers the inductive reactance and therefore increases the current consumption which can result in over heating of the coil.

__________________
The hardest thing to overcome, is not knowing that you don't know.
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Mallorca, Spain
Posts: 567
Good Answers: 15
#10

Re: Drop Off Voltage of Contactors

04/19/2012 6:50 AM

Rcapper,

quite correct. I did not mean to add a pole piece to an ac contactor but that is not clear from my post. thanks for the correction

chas

__________________
En la casa del herrero, cuchillos de palo!
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 1758
Good Answers: 6
#11

Re: Drop Off Voltage of Contactors

04/19/2012 9:06 AM

Due to residual magnetization which minimum on AC

Register to Reply
Register to Reply 11 comments
Copy to Clipboard

Users who posted comments:

capblanc (2); electricalexpert65 (1); Haajee (1); kvsridhar (2); PWSlack (2); rcapper (1); redfred (1); Yahlasit (1)

Previous in Forum: Relation Of Transients Fault Current With Generator Speed   Next in Forum: Brushless DC and AC Motor Design

Advertisement