Missing in Action...

Even if you can't name said individual, I'd love to know the result. Happily married myself, but given this is an engineering/tech forum I'm sure there would be a huge readership for succesful/failed stategies . I'm told that some people don't even wear tank-tops anymore .

Right, will do.

If things go really well, they might just tell you themselves.

"I'm told that some people don't even wear tank-tops anymore."

No worries. Where there's a will, there's a way.

Not sure whether to applaud the improvisation or reach for the bucket !

Everybody who isn't here raise your left hand !!!!

Who is missing then?

Latest on the grapevine:

• Del's on holiday - North Norfolk.
• Usbport has been on holiday in the UK and returns to the USA presently.
• Where English Rose has gone is anyone's guess.

Digging her way out from under an enormous pile of CR4P...and hoping there aren't any birds about (that won't make any sense if you don't know the joke). Not going to bore people with details of what's gone on but it wasn't/isn't nice. Safe to say, if I disappear then things are going downhill!

How's USBport been getting on? Has he posted any update reports? Having trouble even opening my PM mailbox and when I do....<sigh>

Darn....Del's within easy stave delivery distance in NN. Could have cleared out some more surplus to requirements items...

Aw, have a little chuckle.......

Yes it is true many of old timers have simply disappeared due to reasons best known to them. May be quality of questions being asked now a days are not of their interest.

Sparkstation, Steve, Blinky, Roger Pink and a few others seem to be gone for good. There are still quite a few regulars.

I find I am pretty busy. With so many of the questions being homework, repairing Chevy Cavaliers and people trying to set up a new factory when they don't have a clue of the fundamentals I guess I just can't get as excited as I used to.

Still here. Still happy with CR4. Just thinking that something about the good old days might have been a little better.

What type of content is missing from CR4 that you'd like to see?

i could easily be wrong, but in the past there seemed to be a lot more posts where I thought "I could use that" or "this is part of the answer to a problem I once had". I can't think of any way to be more specific. I work in small companies and over time will hit many electrical and mechanical areas. I also take on a wide variety of home and garage projects. Being able to relate to questions makes them more interesting.

Milo's postings and Del's bows are always interesting. Lyn, Doorman, USBport and the others often have something interesting to say. Netmaker sometimes has unique questions. Sometimes Endigan even shows up. But overall it seems (again, I could be wrong) that we have drifted away from topics of interest to the average technical person and more toward homework and the very specialized questions where a person somehow has been given a big pile of money to set up a factory and they don't have a clue of what they are doing.

Still happy to be here and hope that CR4 will be on the air forever. In the past I would check in every few hours. I find myself often missing 2 or 3 days now.

I guess I'll add that some of the specialized questions would be more interesting if enough was added to let the rest of us know what is going on. I might Google a question and try to follow along if I had a clue. There seem to be many questions where I just click in and click out without having a clue what the acronyms and equipment names mean.

Thank you for the feedback. The next question is - how can we encourage people to start posting that kind of stuff again?

Don't have a good answer except to point out that you might start brainstorming by thinking of posts in two groups. One would be posts from people that would/could profit and the other would be posts from people that just do it to be helpful.

Globalspec and manufacturer's could provide educational postings and justify it as a marketing expense.

My impression of the postings of Winfield Hill (sorry if I mispelled your name) is that he is posting to be helpful. But, he has authored book(s) and might be approached to join his helpful and profitable sides together and write some tutorials to both educate and introduce people to the book author. (I have a copy of his book)

Many others seem to post just to be helpful or because they enjoy being involved in technical discussions. An increase in postings by authors or manufacturers might encourage more postings by them.

I guess I can try to give a better answer. How this could be done is an issue I don't have an answer for. Maybe manufacturer's would step up to the plate. If I recall correctly there was a brush manufacturer that posted a few brush tutorials. This might be an opportunity for the Globalspec business and the CR4 web site to be tied together a little better.

Milo's postings (blogs?) are great. Maybe I understand, maybe I don't. But, there is a lot of very good and useful information in a package small enough that I enjoy reading it without concern for my ability to use it.

If you think about patterning Milo then other topics of general interest to technical people might include:

1) Drill bits. What point angle for what job? HSS vs. cobalt vs. other drill bit materials. When is TiN coating worth the cost? Drill dry or lubricate? Copper loves to grab and break the bit, how to overcome this? Different spirals are available, when to use them?

2) Screw and bolts. Torque vs. stretch & enlongation vs "just tighten it". There is a huge lack of knowledge for most of us on threaded fasteners. Split lock washers, is the goal to "dig in" or to maintain tension? Are star washers just used to "dig in"? What are the advantages/disadvantages of internal vs external stars? What are the classes of threads? What about percent engagement? Can lock washers be reused or should they be used once and discarded? If bolts are tightened to a level of "stretch" then should bolts be used once and discarded?

3) Paint, iridite, anodize, Parkerize, cadmium conversion coat, environmentally friendly conversion coating, etc. I don't know enough to ask good questions but there is a lot more to know that just "paint is a coating".

4) What was going on with the famous "Chinese capacitors"? Is the bad capacitor problem really over? Was it actually limited to China? Is there any way to know the difference between capacitors with the early "leak and fail" problem or is it just blind faith?

5) Selection of electrical components. What are the pros and cons to consider when selecting resistor, capacitor, transformer, ferrite bead, transistor, connectors or other components.

6) Wire. Lots of types of wire and insulation. Lots of rules, laws, etc. Low voltage, high voltage, sunlight resistant, direct burial, stiff vs. normal vs. test lead flexible. In many cases a good answer is "hire a qualified person". That doesn't mean that there isn't a lot of information that would be useful to the average technical person.

7) Concrete. I bet that what is delivered in a truck is better than what I buy in a bag from the home improvement store. I bet that bridges are made from even better concrete. There are different strengths, set rates, cure rates, etc. When delivered should the "slump" be measured? There must be enough information here for several Milo sized chunks of education.

8) Personal Computers. Many people might not understand that most PCs can be grouped into "Intel architecture" vs. "Mac architecture". Hard drives come in solid state & spinning platter. If solid state then wear leveling is an issue. Drives are communicated with via IDE, SATA, SCSI or other interfaces. RS-232, USB, FireWire and possibly others are common serial communication standards. Wi-Fi, Bluetooth, ZigBee and possibly others are common RF communication standards. Many people don't understand that there are several Wi-Fi standards. All Wi-Fi has security risks and many people don't understand the fundamentals and therefore treat Wi-Fi as a secure connection. Understanding at a block diagram level could help people make better security choices.

9) Cars. Once upon a time I could sit on the radiator of my GM 445 and give it a tune up. Now I open the hood and hope I can correctly identify the oil dip stick and windshield washer tank. There are a lot of fundamentals to share here.

10) Heavy industrial equipment. What's up with "contactors" and the heaters with thermal switches that seem to act like a low pass filter to disconnect a motor when the average power delivered exceeds a specified value? Most of us don't even know enough to ask questions about the electrical, hydraulic and other large industrial systems.

11) Gears. Some have big teeth and some have small teeth. Some teeth have sharp corners and some are rounded. Some are used dry and some are oiled. Some last forever. The gears in lawn equipment from the home improvement store last for about 2.5 hours of operation.

12 Radio Waves. Most people don't have a clue how GPS and the old LORAN systems work. When one news reporter in the studio is talking to another news reporter overseas the delays between one talking and the other talking is normally not due to them being extra tired from jet lag. It sometimes makes sense to say that the moon is 1.25 seconds away and a light year is a measure of distance.

Above is a bit of a big list of a few ideas. Some will say, "get a book" or "Google it yourself". Yes, I/we could do that. But I also suggest that I would not be the only CR4 reader to jump at the chance to spend 5-10 minutes on a Milo style read of "2 flute vs. 4 flute end mills", "factors in concrete strength", "the science of screws and bolts", "drill bit point angles and materials", "6061 vs 6063 vs other aluminum alloys", "what are the various periods of wobble in the earth's rotation" or other technically interesting topics.

I guess it would be nice if Milo wasn't the only Mr. Wizard and a larger percentage of us were in class.

13) What is the difference between the bearings in an end mill and the bearings in a drill press?

Jorrie used to write a blog on aspects of cosmosology is "uninformed*"-sized chunks

*the readers, not Jorrie!!

I don't have the time to search around for interesting posts - the Daily Digest helps, bit there are only so many slots in the DD. Occasionally, people send links to interesting threads by PM; quite some time ago we had a sandpit where anyone could post links to interesting threads and that was usually how I found out what was going on! I also used this de facto public bulletin board to raise the profile of interesting threads.

Savy, I suggest you should just go through old posts and would get the required information.

And then there are some that have been permanently "booted" by the Moderators in the last 1/2 year or so, for the good of the forum.

I won't name names, but a certain gang of antagonists is gone gone gone.....

I certainly won't miss them!

Dead right!

How long do I have to hold up my left hand?

Greetings N-o-60,

I haven't been on line as much recently, some because (as you say) more busy, some because the questions seem to be diminishing (maybe just my perspective). It does SEEM there is less overall involvement lately, though. Not sure if just my imagination, or a real decline ... not sure if anyone keeps the stats.

I'm still counting those left hands .

Kind regards ...

My thanks to all who responded. Perhaps it is just my impression that the flow of things has changed around here, but it sure seems like it to me.

Let's see, I haven't seen "the Russian" of late. HTRN is still as entertaining as usual. I liked the old europium better than the new europium, didn't you? Aside from that, things seem about the same.

"The Russian"? Do you mean 34-point-5 whatever?

That's the one. Used to be a frequent poster.

Yup, him (Drake K. whatshisname), Packratus, Transcendia (sp?), and Garthh, to name a few.....all booted from what I know and prevented from coming back to stir up more trouble.

I for one will not miss 'em!

34 point what ever, oh, I thought it was just me that he was abrasive to.

I don't know he as well as the rest of the crew got the boot.............

better refrain from my political and religious posts..... and be a good little altar boy and not do stuff like this .............

NO b'Zero 2012.....

^{being lutheran and claim being an Altar boy, thats a hoot!}

"NO b'Zero 2012" Huh, now what do you think about that.

b'Zero, Its code, Its the only way I can get political under the radar.. ........oh cr4p! ....

He's on Facebook, along with karmarat and a few other former and current CR4 members.

'down the toilet' Plunger, does anyone here have a plunger.

You wrote: "I liked the old europium better than the new europium.."

So did I, but when the new Europium came on board, he was welcomed with stern warnings to the effect of "Behave yourself or you're outta here." If you like, I can post the original text.

It felt kind of like, "Welcome back to CR4, now go home."

Recently me and another member were posting off-topic and marked our posts as such. I don't know about the other member, but I received a warning about posting off-topic and to take the discussion elsewhere. CR4 has a setting which minimizes Off-Topic posts. When the setting is enabled, you have to manually expand the posts if you want to read them. If not, you can skip over them easily enough. 'Too many' OT posts, marked as such. Never seen that happen before, not in the six years both Europiums have been here.

That Bath Breaking Technique thread was a lot of fun and didn't interfere with the forum overall. It was hugely popular, but still, 'off to the side' and not in anyone's way.' So why was it was 'archived'? Yeah, I'm asking flat out. Why was it archived? To give the forum a more 'professional' air?

The warm welcome. The Nanny Factor. The encroaching Political Correctness, now enforced. You wanna know why CR4 ain't the same place it used to be? Because it ain't the same place it used to be. It's lost it's sense of fun. Redefined it. Trammeled it. TRAMPLED it. Had pieces surgically removed. And now we're scratching our arses wondering why we're losing people? That's what happens when you go Pro. Kind of like what happens when Rock n Roll becomes Muzak, or a good ribeye steak becomes New England Boiled Dinner. Bland.

That great pub down the street that once served the best burgers and margaritas in town? It was bought out by McDonald's. Thing is, folks are still in the market for great burgers and margaritas, and that will never change.

Wanna know why the quality of the questions posed of late have gone down the chutes? "How Do I Start a Factory with These Here Pliers and This Chocolate Bar?"

or

"How Many Holes Are in a Flange?" x 52,183. The kinds of customers a McDonald's attracts: The Incognisi. They're not in the market for a great pub, but a McDonald's. That's why you're seeing more of these kinds of questions and fewer of the really interesting questions posed by folks in the market for what used to be a great pub.

These are driving right on by, and why shouldn't they?

I'll try to answer some of these questions and respond to some of the statements.

So did I, but when the new Europium came on board, he was welcomed with stern warnings to the effect of "Behave yourself or you're outta here." If you like, I can post the original text.

You were banned from CR4. We let you back. Now you're complaining about that? C'mon...

Recently me and another member were posting off-topic and marked our posts as such. I don't know about the other member, but I received a warning about posting off-topic and to take the discussion elsewhere.

Certain topics aren't allowed on CR4. For example, our favorite - politics. Yes, this may come up in discussion. OT is a great option for a handful of these replies. But CR4 is not a place to discuss political individuals or parties or their actions at length. Period.

Yeah, I'm asking flat out. Why was it archived?

There are pros and cons to everything. It was getting to the point where Bath Breaking Technique had a long list of "cons". Quite a few users (and not just CR4 employees!) are glad that it's gone. They just aren't as vocal as those who miss it. They've moved on.

The warm welcome. The Nanny Factor. The encroaching Political Correctness, now enforced. You wanna know why CR4 ain't the same place it used to be? Because it ain't the same place it used to be. It's lost it's sense of fun.

This is true and we'd love to make it better. At the same time, it's up to the whole community to work together to make a great site. Apart from the removal of one thread that has a handful of people in an uproar CR4 has not really changed. We still rely on the community to initiate great discussions. If you are tired of poor quality posts, why not share something great?

Despite all of the complaints there must be something that keeps you coming back. After all, you returned to us a few years after you were banned. CR4 must still be pretty good.

Wrong. I was not banned from CR4. I left voluntarily and even gave advance notice to that effect. If I was banned, that happened after I left. I didn't check back to see.

Political off-topic posts? You must be thinking of someone else's OT posts. These were OT, but not political. I typically don't engage in political discussions, Off-Topic or otherwise.

Sorry about that. I'm just using the little information that is available to me.

You did look back, though. Here you are.

I feel that such discussions should be avoided or discussed privately.

Why are you baiting him?

~anon~

Ah, that explains it. I almost left a couple of times after some extreme criticism, but got over it. Glad you are back. I am less inclined to share things than I was before.

If I was banned, that happened after I left.

Yes, thats also how we elect presidents in our club....best you be at the next meeting

We are absolutely considering a sub-section based around that type of concept. Because CR4 is a custom platform there is no magic wand to create one overnight. A general chat area is on our wish list.

An excellent idea and one whose time has come. Kudos to you and GlobalSpec for even considering it.

The BBT thread served that purpose. It functioned as a sort of Commons where all the nut jobs could come (including myself, by all means) and, because it was a thread, it worked. Not everybody likes to engage in free-for-alls like those on that thread, however, whilst others love it. For my part, I liked to drop in once in awhile for my fair share of abuse and then leave fat, dumb and happy, covered in mud. That worked, but a general chat area implemented in the same way won't work, not as a single monolithic thread it won't. Like CR4, the chat area will have to be threaded in order to appeal to a wider audience, just like things work in Real Life.

Speaking of CR4's 'custom platform', aside from a few very annoying implementation details, I feel CR4's is one of the best threading models I have seen anywhere, and I have extolled its virtues as a model to others - including Google. Their threading model for Google+ ('Google Plus') is downright pathetic. Facebook's is much better, IMO, but Facebook's clientele is a different story altogether and wot drives me away. In my opinion, only one forum's threading model surpasses that of CR4's: xkcd. Theirs is both sophisticated AND easy-to-use; a combo you don't see very often in anything. They didn't use a magic wand either; theirs was also a product carefully and deliberately designed to meet a need, and that takes time. There are no shortcuts, no magic wands. Good engineers understand this probably better than anyone.

Trouble is...xkcd is banned by Nanny....

I too miss the pub atmosphere of CR4; PMs are great, but you don't get newcomers to the gathering (probably best in our case!). I did feel that BBT had got to a situation where I didn't enjoy it so much, so I self selected and stayed away for periods. I went back when I need a large dose of silliness. As with real life, sometimes, you just don't respond to the posts you don't enjoy.

Friends and good conversation are what keep me here at CR4.

Apart from having a nanny, I ditto that.

The PM's and general atmosphere make CR4 what it is. Trouble is, when you get too many people in on a discussion it becomes overly long. Newcomers are sometimes baffled by the way in which participants seemingly know each other, and the 'in-jokes' aren't going to be easy to fathom. As far as I've ever seen CR4 is very welcoming to new people, though some kids are reticent at a new school.

Maybe when things go a bit too OT, admin can simply open another thread (eg "Room #1 - BBT", "Room #xyz - MIA") and ask those who feel inclined to take the non-CR4 stuff/banter over there ? Just one Room created per thread, and let people have a laugh or butcher each other therein. I'm sure somebody said their house has many rooms (or words to that effect).

Pretty sure it was a college kid before a party: "My father's mansion has many rooms". Let's be thankful he didn't have Facebook or the mansion would have been trashed.

A Snug would be good. I've been on other sites where they have a "Pub" or "Snug" area...and it's ok for anyone to tell others to take a line of conversation "to the pub". Hmmmm, didn't we self-police that attitude into a different room...awww <blows raspberry> the slowcoach just spotted what you're doing with rooms....were you thinking to include cellar and CR4wlspace?

"Trouble is, when you get too many people in on a discussion it becomes overly long."

[splarffff!!]

Sounds like a meeting. I always think quality is better than quantity...<snigger>

I liked the old Europium, and I equally like the current incarnation. Most human beings are capable of change, adapting to current situation. Some humans have adapted by leaving the CR4 community temporarily, some have left permanently (for one reason or another), others have adapted by some sort of behavior modification, and some have not changed (adapted) at all.

A CR4 paradigm shift that is incommensurable is the elimination of guest posting. Several vocal members lobbied for this change, and CR4 admin responded with a policy shift that included that change. I, for one, am still unconvinced this change has had the desired or anticipated result.

Savvy, you said "... it's up to the whole community to work together to make a great site." Agreed. Now... who among us is willing to relinquish the role of alpha? There are bound to be discussions where a number of contributory alpha members disagree. I like to believe that, around here, thin skin is uncommon but I have seen many instances where this does not appear to be the case.

I respectfully disagree. The new Europium is much too tame.

I have been a member for some time here, and don't know if I am considered a regular or not (nor does it matter to me).

What I have observed here (post BBT) is that often interesting posts get deleted from the home screen. I don't take the time to look through the individual discussion threads. I always preferred to refresh the home screen. Now often I will see new posts added, then suddenly on the next refresh they are gone and the same boring ones that were below the new ones are now at the top.

Why is CR4 loosing interest? I don't know, ask whoever it is that edits the posts that show on the home page?

I have seen fewer interesting posts of a general technician topic and many more for technical steam boiler or other professional themed posts.

If CR4 is going to be a place where it is only for "the Engineer's place for News and Discussion®" then I will have to join the ranks of Engineers and regulars who no longer post or provide answers.

Drew K

What I conclude from above posts is that present format needs to be changed. There can be some good questions and answers which need to be edited by admin. Blog sections with more of informative/educative blogs, wherein experts from particular industry can contribute. General discussions on even non engineering subjects like cheaper products exports from China vs. local produced products. Marketing of industrial products and many more subjects.

Sorry!!, had the wrong hand up......What ever happened to the HHO crowd.......?

HHO? I'm missing something here.....

Players choice: HHO

Good morning all, it's good to see you all again! The wooing mentioned in #1 went swimmingly...

Returned from my short sebatical, I have nothing of any real substance to add to this conversation just yet, but I'm sure that I will come up with something!

We can see the smile from here!