Oven/Cook Top Temperature

Is there a change in the line voltage?

If it really is not performing as well it is either the energy input or temporal rift in time/space that is causing the anomaly. Or maybe she is just trying to convince you that she needs an induction cooktop. :(

Actually, you can always time the length of time it takes for a pot of a set amount of water to come to a boil if you want to establish a metric.

Ovens have two elements. If one is bad the oven will not heat as fast or as hot. Generally, those thermometer readouts are only the set-point temperature or an approximation of the temperature for preheat. You need an actual oven thermometer to be sure.

Stove top burners are generally a single element with the exception of some of the dual element burners for larger pots. Check that all elements are really functioning.

Interesting. My 120 V single phase voltage is running 114V. I checked it 6 months ago and it was 120. I don't think 6 volts can account for her complaint. Since it's just one (dual element) heater. The other three seem to be OK.

I can't check 220 V with this meter and it's too late to fish out my DVM with probes.

She knows me too well to buy the "temporal rift" line. We've been together for 30 years +.

We've got a thermometer somewhere, I'll dig it out too, but it may not help my case.

Usbport,

We're half way there already.

The refrigerator died while I was out of town, It was full of food. She gave it to the nieghbors, the food that is.

Yeah, that is probably 12 VAC difference at the 240 feed or 5%, so that may be the devil right there.

Lyn,

On a serious note. It might be that you have a power problem which could mean that the new stove will perform as purly as the old one. You'd better check why the fridge died and what else it took with it. Today the fridge tomorrow the stove and off goes the TV or sound system and what ever.

The voltage drop might be an indication for deep deep trouble.

Always trust the gut feeling of your wife. She will be right even if you do not trust it!

IS

You can buy an oven thermometer and put it in the oven (even leave it in permanently). It will tell you if the oven is reaching the set temperature. I've got one that hangs off one of the oven racks.

Be wary of giving in to the request for a new oven. My wife once wanted to buy a new towel rack for the guest bathroom. Two months, $4000, and a lot my weekend hours later the guest bathroom had a new sink and vanity, new flooring, freshly painted walls, a new shower curtain and a new roman shade for the window. That was one d@mn expensive towel rack.

Damn right!

Sounds like the voice of experience!

This is the type of situation you can take advantage of..... what do you want? It's a trading opportunity....these are rare and can pay off big.....yer a lucky man....but you have to play it right...

Good point, since the fridge died too (...suspicious, in my opinion...) then Lyn's gonna need some new tools to help with the remodel -- tools not already in his arsenal. If he doesn't have a jackhammer he'll need one of those. Backhoe, pneumatic nail gun, Bridgeport milling machine, Ferrari 458...

I took my wife to Vegas this summer. It was the most I ever had to pay for jiggy-jiggy.

Scientific evidence has no credibility against "intuition" or gut feel in this situation. The stove is doomed!! Regardless of which element is believed to be poorly at this time, when any element fails it will be a case of "Told you so!!!!!"

It's a little like the difference between architects and engineers. (I drew it, now you make it! The customer has already agreed tot eh design.)

The new oven will undoubtedly be 1" wider than existing, needing a new benchtop and cupboards. The sink will no longer match and then the height of the refrigerator will be inappropriate. You really need a new kitchen.

There is an upside to this. Firstly, YOU raise the makeover of the kitchen, getting the upper hand and then draw out a timeline for that to be done including staged activity. If you're on the ball, you will notice that the stove is actually the LAST item that can be replaced due to where it must fit.

Buy the new fridge first, leavign the current one to be "re-badged" into the drinks fridge in the workshop. Given that you are coming into winter over there, take at least three months to do this.

Then start to look at benchtop materials. After another three months, the other half will realise the futility of the activity and regard the current operating condition of the stove as a godsend.

You could alternatively try to reason that the new settings on the stove are for power saving and that just the way it is, but you've described her as savvy to that level of discussion through previous attempts.

Good luck! and in the meantime, what could you do with a stove like that in the workshop, and all teh kitchen cupboards? Drying timber for woodturning, melting wax for casting etc.

Many glass cook top stoves have an infrared reflector below the glowing element that improves efficiency. One of your root problems may just be that this reflector has moved.

As far as trying to convince anyone that one burner of a stove is working as efficiently as it use to, well that requires having quantified and approved data about how that burner use to work. If the slow burner has an "equivalent" mate you can do a side by side comparison now. Measure how long it takes for identical significant volumes of water (pint) to boil using the two equivalent burners. Ideally these two heatings should be done at the exact same time to mitigate any atmospheric or line voltage differences.

As far as the oven, many modern ovens use multiple elements (broiler, convection, oven) simultaneously during preheating only. A failure in one of these elements or the control of these elements may extend preheating time but still permit well regulated operation at temperature.

Lastly, and this is the hard part, trying to measure or mitigate your wife's perception that the kitchen does or does not perform as expected should only be done if both parties agree that they could be wrong. We've all had emotional times where we could not admit to error. It is far more difficult to be humble when one believes they are also smart. Tread carefully, my friend.

Peace, good cook meals, love and understanding when you want that new gadget = cost of new stove. Stove seems cheap!

Goodluck

Thanks for the good advice. I'm going to sleep on it and consider my options tomorrow.

Maybe a diversionary action will hold off the inevitable?

I'll be checking voltage and bringing my IR thermometer home from work today to seehow hot things really get.

I'm not sure that science and logic will prevail, though. (Assuming I'm right of course)

We'll see.

Cheers.

If voltage is down 5%, power will be down 10% - & will be the same for the new cooktop too!

Both YOU and the STOVE are doomed!

She wants an entirely new kitchen!!! The fridge and the stove are a means to her ends.

Next it'll be a new microwave oven, kitchen cabinets, new granite tops, tile backsplash, a new chrome gooseneck kitchen faucet, new double-sided kitchen sink bowl, a new bar sink and faucet, etc etc etc etc etc. Ohhhh, lets not forget the new kitchen granite or Italian porcelain tile floor and newly painted walls or an expensive German-made wall paper!

You are only part way into this little project that's swimming around in her noggin'! LOL

Pony up Bro, pull out and open up your wallet.....wide, very wide!!!! Is George Washington on those $1 bills wearing sunglasses, or do you have to blow-off the dust? Mrs. Lyn probably thinks so! Pony up bro, pony up big time.....

[I just went through it all with Mrs. Moosie! It seems like every 8 to 10 years "they" need a new kitchen makeover!!! hehehehe And when you're done redoing the kitchen don't you dare put away that wallet! You're going to have to buy her new kitchen pots and pans, silverware, and all sorts of new fangled KitchenAid (or whatever...they're all expensive!) mixers, blenders and other fun electro gizmos and gadgets!]

You hesitate and your goose is literally cooked!

Ah chit, I forgot to list the new kitchen window and curtains! LOL

You may be right, but, I'll fight to the end, then do what she wants.

BRAAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!

Yuppers, you had better do ask she asks, or otherwise you'll end up sleeping on your belly for 6 months (at which time you'll pony up after all!).

I know, it isn't fair, but women DO know what our ultimate weak spots really are.....food and "nuggie"! LMAO

If the two equivalent burners come to red hot at the same time when they're on max, check for a problem with the switch.

In my experience with old stoves, the switches get loose and/or lose their calibration, so that could be the reason she isn't getting the temperature she wants - the machine is reading a lower temp than the setting she specified, so it appears to "heat more slowly". This applies to the oven as well.

For maximum psychological benefit, completely replacing the switches instead of repairing them is recommended, and use of the phrase "brand new set of switches", while displaying their gleaming newness and perfect function is recommended.

Deja Vu!!!!!

My wife yesterday made comment that one element on the stove is slower than it used to be!!!!!

comparison testing (same size saucepan on equivalent element on same stove) seems to bear this out with pot of water boiling faster by a significant factor.

Thinking it through, the "slow" one is the one that's always favoured (front right) and the idea that a switch might be contributing bears review.

She's away for a week, maybe I'll swap the elements and see if she notices when she gets back????

Fortunate for me though, the only "fixtures" in the kitchen are the kitchen sink and the stove. Everything else is mobile, so any potential size anomally can be accommodated. (Kitchen is in open plan room 6m x 7m.) Western view is panorama to the horizon (around 7km away) with only two houses in view.

Unfortunately, the bum position on this stove is a dual element "burner". That complicates things cause there's nothing to compare it to.

Are you sure that both elements are working?

Sounds like one is not working.

Conventional burner elements (which is all I know about) wear out unevenly, and might cause the same outcome. You can see this though, as they do not glow red all over, which Lyn said is not the problem. It seems that oxidation in certain parts of the coil creates resistance to the current over time, so they do not heat evenly as before, but it's pretty obvious the answer to that is to replace the element.

I have less experience with the glass top stoves because I hate em. I don't have the patience for the (lovely clean hidden) element to get as hot as you need it to get on with the business. Speed cooking, my specialty...

Try an induction cooktop if you do not like waiting for heat.

A great idea, but do not forget some pots and pans are not induction compatible, I bought new induction compatible ones and have never looked back.

Gas, Coal, wood or electricity are nothing in comparison.

Induction is safer , faster and more controllable.

Search out the many induction stove/hob blogs on CR4.

Another obvious thought, is to yank out the element and check for accretions of oxide (or nameless goop ) on the contacts. That would do it.

Of course nameless goop only applies to a conventional stove, not the prissy glass tops.

Not sure if it's the same for your cooktop but some of the commercial 'hot plate' type equipment I worked on used an Infinite Switch to control the elements. These are a sort of bi-metallic on/off switch that are remarkably accurate. Over time I imagine they would drift. Good news is that they would be fairly inexpensive. Bad news is as suggested in the blog the outcome may already be predetermined....

It must be that woman ESP thing..I just spent upwards of 40k on a complete remodel of kitchen,dining room, great room,solarium,and library. And it all started with a new ceiling fan and spread from there. One thing at the time. That's the way they do it. Kinda like the old saying of boiling a frog:Don't begin with hot water, he will jump out,begin with cold water and increase the temperature slowly,and eventually, he will be cooked and not realize it. Women must have a world wide web where they discuss ideas telepathically and plan strategies.It is uncanny that several of my friends recently went through the same thing.....hmmm..and we are not even in the same state........! As for your stove, if the problem is genuine, check the line to line voltage. Stoves run on 220 or 240 in the states.If one leg is low, the other might also have a problem. Your refrigerator going out is another indication of a possible voltage problem. I have seen the transformers on the pole go bad,or be overloaded by too many houses on same transformer.If yours is pole mounted, look for a red light on transformer at dusk, when everyone is cooking and running A/C at same time. The red light indicates an overloaded condition. Don't expect the utility company to replace it immediately, they had rather wait for a total failure to justify the parts and labor involved. However, enough complaints might generate some action. Another thing to check if your voltage is low is connection integrity all the way back to the breaker panel, including the wall plug..take it apart and do a good visual.I have seen very sloppy work on these and the problems did not show up for years. Good luck, and hope your stove is repairable.

By the way,do you know the difference between free sex and bought sex? Free sex costs more!

Not sure on the system in the US, but a bad earth or neutral can cause 110V to jump up - where 220V is centre tapped for 2 x 110V, and the neutral develops a bad connection etc, a low impedance load on one side (eg stove) can throw a high voltage onto a high impedance load (eg computer, fridge) on the other side.

I don't believe the drop in voltage is a major problem The only way to test for correct voltage is while the oven is heating this will show if there is a problem with the supply to the oven, if there is a burnt terminal etc it will show up mainly under load as low voltage but usually a lot more than 6v & often will not be shown when there is no load on the circuit.

As others have said there is 2 elements in the oven, the top element is for browning & not always used to cook the entire time, normally the bottom element gives most of the heating while cooking & if the bottom 1 isn't working it could be the controller or the element so check the operation of both & the connections to make sure they aren't burnt.

Another thought I had if the seal around the door is damaged the heat can escape out the door & this will make it seem as if the oven is not getting up to temp properly, even if it reads correctly on the temp control it could be because the sensor is at the back of the oven so not showing the different temp at the front of the oven. It causes uneven temperatures in the oven so things don't cook properly over cooked at back & under cooked at the front.

I don't know what type of cook top it is as there are many different types but if a element is not getting up to temp properly I would be checking the controller first & then check to see if it has multiple elements built in to the body of it I have seen up to 4 in parallel inside 1 element so if 1 of them is not working u loose 1/4 of the heating ability.

Just a few thoughts Hope it works out for you

Just tell her you can't afford a new cooker.

If she insists then tell her if you suddenly can't pay any bills then it will be her fault.

If she thinks that you can afford it then tell her to go out and buy it herself. Don't get involved let her feel empowered.

Then if there is anything wrong you can smile into your drink. (Don't say this to her)

Divest yourself of any accountability when complying to the whims of "she who must be obeyed".

Enjoy smugness.

If you want a happy life, get her whatever stove she wants. If mama ain't happy, ain't nobody happy. This is a fact of life.

with this volt drop you could easily get a 10% reduction in heat output on the stove. 150 deg C in the oven though is thermostat controlled so it might take longer but its still 150 deg.

Might be worth a call to your electricity supplier if your supply is under spec.

An example an 8kW electric shower at 240V will deliver 8kW but can only deliver 7.2kW at 220V. Line volts are important.

Always buy her a gas stove!

I'm going to let the sisterhood down, here, just because I like lyn.

Ask her what effect the cooler oven is having: meat taking longer (how much longer?), meringues and souffles failing, spares ribs not browning. Same with the 'ring' (top element), although that will be harder to quantify. Tell her you need to understand the problem in as detailed a way as she does. Get specifics - she'll have them, even if she only starts off telling you the generalities.

Then do the temperature checks and check the switches/connections.

After you've replaced the switches etc, present her with a bunch of flowers and invite to a local eatery...and praise her for noticing the problem before the cooker went pop!!

If it doesn't work out this way, you could suggest changing to a gas cooker...no such problems there! (Apart from when the suppliers drop the gas pressure: yes I can tell when my supplier does that).

Best of luck - and keep us informed!

We've had the "longer to cook" conversation already.

This is a "total electric" home.

My IR thermometer doesn't have enough range to test the oven and cooking elements.

Fortunately, we're still eating.

Cheers.

Gotta go.

Problems like this one is the exact reason why we have a gas (propane) stove!

instead of replacing the cooker why not simply replace the cookers operator.

Its a resonable fix and one she will understand and empathise with .....

And whom, pray tell, would you get the jiggy-jiggy from then?

I once made the mistake of telling my wife that she was starting to sound a lot like my ex-wife. I've never been married before. I didn't get the jiggy-jiggy for quite some time.

I tried that idea, I could have bought 250 stoves for less money!

Lyn, don't temp fate... Go buy her a beautiful GAS cook top and oven and put an end to your electrical and save face problem...

It sounds like the elements still get up to temp. but slower than before. I've had elements die slowly from "brown out" low voltage surges that affected the resistance of the elements thus their time required to heat up to temp. (kinda like taking the temper out of steel with a grinder).

you guys need to think out of the box. Cookers present operator is history. That solves the ringing and whinging in the ear problems. Interview prospective replacement cooker operators, test for jiggy jiggy and cooker operating skills.

Alternative is to scrap the cooker and go jiggy jiggy with a takeaway every night.

PC me - never.

The Operator was never in question, so I disagree with your comments. Rather than take the time to diagnose the problem, research why it broke in the first place, learn from our mistakes and make the necessary repairs, we just throw it away. While new Equipment may have more bells, whistles and blinking lights and appear to be cheaper, they are not built like they used to be. Reliability, dependability, comfort and quality of build are things not found in todays newer models, which need to time to mature, are sometimes finicky and often require a high degree of maintenance. There is something to be said for repairing existing Equipment. The time and money already invested is just too valuable. Sometimes the repair can make the Equipment perform its functions even better than before. And sometimes we must modify our own behavior to allow the Equipment to operate at peak performance. You savvy?

The other night, I had my head inside my dishwasher. I was a hero because I saved my family several hundred dollars. Plus I learned a bunch of stuff I never knew before. Win-win. Jiggy-jiggy was unleashed. And I didn't have to sneak out in the middle of the night.

? 50 posts, and only Silverfox (41) mentioned the (part/term) "thermostat"...?

"...one top element that cooks slower than it used to" and
"the oven...doesn't get as hot either" sounds to me like it isn't quite performing as it used to at "any given setting".....(?)

Thermostats can, and DO fail, on everything from HVAC systems to frigiditators* to spas to 'you-name-it'. Find the exploded-diagram for yours (many are online) and see how to get to the ones in question, and check 'em out.

(While so-doing, show her you've still got a bit of Tim Taylor in you...)

MORE POWER! Says Tim - ALWAYS!!!

finding out that the old stove & it's irregular using schedule formed the majority of the energy bill - we brought a new one - and continue using it @ irregular times

+ you heat your rooms after coming from work not at night when the NRG is cheaper
+ the 1-st warm winter month cause the cold shock and you heat rooms more than 2 month later when it's the coldest

I referred to it as a controller in my post as a generic term to allow for the various types of temperature controllers that are used in stove tops & other heating appliances. Of course they do use a thermostat for the over & I also used the term controller for the oven as well as they are all temperature controllers & it is an easy generic term to use

On that note the simmer-stats that control the elements on stove tops are operated by a heating element inside them that heats a bi metal strip & that operates the contacts, they do not monitor the temperature of the element only the time duration that the element heats for & cycles on & off. A thermostat actually monitors the temperature of the element/ area being heated / cooled

So if the stove top element is not getting hot enough it is most likely that the bi metal strip is loosing it's properties & is not operating as it should, a common problem that is simply corrected with a new controller / simmer stat.

Are we really suggesting the oven thermostat and simerstats have all gone off specification together and have all chosen to default low.

Does this seem likely?

Does this seem as unlikely than the line volts are low, the heating elements are a fixed resistance and you simply cannot draw the current and hence generate the kW of heat you need for cooking.

To reiterate, per the OP:

"...one top element that cooks slower than it used to" and
"the oven...doesn't get as hot either" ...

... does not mean "ALL"

Each individual 'stat is capable of failing (usually by going slowly-out-of-cal, NOT by going from "working" to "dead"). And with built-in planned-obsolescence, statistics says whilest one is starting to begin to "go", another will likely soon follow (at least in one-out-of-xx units).

But we LOVE to foam at the mouth over things that were never said....

yes - fair cop - so thats 2 out of 5 items. We are also suggesting the digital tempertaure readout is rubber ducked as well.

I sense a woman on a mission to get a new cooker.

I thought we were suggesting that the digital read out was reading out a pre-determined setting rather than a measured temperature _{(but I haven't gone back and checked, oh my no, that would be tantamount to RTFM!!)}

Yes, when the oven is turned on, the readout is set to the desired temp. the oven beeps when the set temp. is attained.

Ovens do not reach a steady state temperature, rather cycle up and down as much as 40°F to 80°F or more (if memory serves) during the cook process. It is part of the algorithm of baking to have this cyclic variation inside the cavity. So it is by design.

For this reason you only see the set-point temperature and not the actual cavity temperature displayed. Otherwise people would think the oven was not working!

The preheat signal usually goes off after the cavity temperature reaches a point just before the actual set-point. There is a thermal inertia to the cavity, so the actual transition from preheat to cooking algorithm may not match the actual beep you hear.

Oven thermometers that you stick in the cavity have a fairly large thermal lag so you do not see the actual internal temperature swings.

For bake, both the upper broil element and the bottom bake element are cycled in a somewhat complex pattern. If one element goes bad the oven performance will be noticeably impacted. You need both elements (sometimes there are more than two) for the oven to bake correctly.

Algorithms I have developed in one of my past lives do not compensate for a bad element - there really is no way to do it and it would just mask a problem that the user should know about anyway.

I had the exact same problem with a glass top General Electric.It turned out to be the switch for the element.My wife and I had the same argument about the element.I said "It is getting red, what more can it do?" I finally deferred to her 35+ years of experience and dug a little deeper. Here is what I discovered when I disassembled the switch: The variable temperature switch has a bi-metallic element in series with the stove top element, and this element increases in length with an increase in current. This force is working against a spring-bias,which is variable by the control knob.An increase in temperature request applies more force against the bi-metallic element,via the spring, which tries to open a set of contacts feeding the element. The result is an increase in temperature due to a longer duty cycle of the element "on time". There is also a high limit switch(or device) near the element as a fail safe mechanism to prevent excessive temperature in case of switch failure in closed position. This is also in series with the element. The problem in my case resulted from the loss of spring tension in the switch. The element would come on, and get red, but the duty cycle was shortened and the result was slower cooking. The switches can be calibrated via a very small allen or Torx screw in top of switch, but I would not recommend this unless you have valid calibration equipment. Of course, you could get a rough estimate by timing the duty cycle of another element for reference. The simple and safe way is to replace the switch. Expect to pay around $30. Plenty of on-line appliance parts sources. Good luck.

Use the wattmeter on the circuit breaker panel. Unless you can borrow one from the empire.

Lyn, have you tried swapping the thermostat switches from the good elements to the bad position yet?

If the fault follows the switch then you have a possible solution there.

I have done this in the past to prolong the inevitable.

What actually happened to your refrigerator?

I haven't tried anything, yet except coming here and whining about my sick stove.

I still may buy a new IR thermometer.

The refrigerator?

I don't know. I was out of town when I found out that it quit. The new one's the same color, so it wasn't just to redecorate.

I'm not going to tear into the thing until I have done sufficient whining.

My Whirlpool 2 door American monster is now 18 years old.

It has "died" so many times and yet I've managed to fix it. The compressor is still sweet.

Present problem is the autodefrost clock. When the evaporator ices up it gets warm inside. Manually rotating the clock through the hole just inside the top inside lip of the cabinet stops the compressor, turns on the defrost element, the evaporator clears and half an hour later I turn the clock again to restart and it's good until next time. This is done once every three days.

Other problem has been with the condensor fan.First time this happened I just pointed a normal room fan at the under side of the fridge where the condensor is located until I had time to investigate. Now it has a gang of computer fans doing the work. Even if one stops I still have redundancy.

I can't afford to replace it yet. It still works anyway (real cold). It is getting a bit hungry for electricity now but the payback period on energy savings is too long to be viable at this stage. I need my cash for other things right now.

Hey Lyn have you checked to make sure the door to the oven is sealing properly & the hinges are adjusted properly as I said earlier if the door doesn't seal properly this will cause the oven to have uneven temperatures. I have found this on many ovens when I have had female customers that have whinged about the oven not cooking properly. Sometimes I was able to readjust the door & other times it was just a realy good excuse to get a new 1 lol

check the connections in the wall or cabinet where the stove cord is wired into the house wiring. Usually when part of the stove seems to have lower temps it is one leg of the 220 that has come loose from repeated heat cycles from using the burners on high to do things like boil water for pasta.

The fridge is got to be on one half of the stove 220 leg or the other. Since they both went bad one of the 110 lines coming into the main breaker on your main breaker panel.

Also, newer stove tops are not likely to fit the old hole so you will also have to buy new granite countertops to fit the new stove top too.

Lyn, have you had a chance to measure the voltage at the stove while it's turned on yet?

What's the damage for a new cooktop (sans new kitchen) going to be anyway? Could be a good opportunity to pimp your man-cave with the old one

Solved...

This here Washington coal isn't a patch on that lovely nutty slack you bought last time. Now that nutty slack cooked much faster than this rubbish.

LOL!!!

Your sense of humour just gets better and better!!

<curtsey> Why thank you kind sir!

"No thermometer known to man will change a womans idea about her oven" Socrates or Confucius, not sure. S.M.

Go on out and buy a Franklin stove! Ya don't need electric power for that puppy, just in case the "grid" goes down! LOL

Seriously, my Great Grandma, God rest her soul, used a really old Franklin stove for over 85 years in her farm house. She lived to a young 106! Every day, until they forced her into a seniors home at 103, she hauled buckets of coal up some very steep stairs from the cellar coal bin.

Lyn, tell your Mrs. about this story and she'll stop and seriously think about buying a new stove, 'cause she will NOT want to haul buckets of coal up from the basement!

Lyn, be sensible, just give in!

Not yet. I'm trying to figure out what I can get out of this besides a new IR thermometer.

Now you're being totally unrealistic.

Forget the IR thermometer...

Get a FLIR camera instead.

I'm not going to do much this week or weekend.

Saturday, September 29th is "Make A Difference Day" here in the USA.

USA Weekend - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
I participate in that every year as a hosting organization in my fair city. Although the event itself is only one day, I spend more time than that preparing for it.

I think it is a worthy cause and encourage USA members to consider taking part in it.

Kudos Lyn.

One question: wiki says MADD is the fourth Saturday in October...Jus' askin'

Suggestion: use the day to teach youngesters how to repair a cooker???

<ER runs and hides in one of the as yet uncompleted snugs, quaking under a dust sheet>

By Jove,

I think you are right. I've been up to my neck in projects and there has been lots of back and forth e-mail traffic this past week on the subject of MADD with no reference to the date..............................

Thanks, ER.

That makes the deadline on the other two #1 projects doable.

The good news, lots of preparation complete already.

I feel dumber than normal over this.

<ER emerges bearing a stack of cakes, pies and biscuits (US: cookies) -all gluten free- cooked in the new oven in the pale blue snug and offers them round>

Jove! My favourite of the planets and my planetary ruler and they played The Bringer of Jollity (original) on Classic FM this morning.

Glad to be of service - work done is never wasted!

Well, I got my new hand held IR thermometer yesterday. Maybe over the weekend I can take some notes.

Still need to look at the incoming voltage under several conditions.

You should have seen wifey's look when she saw the new toy.

What's that for? _{I need it to test the cooktop and oven.}

What's wrong with the old one? _{Not enough range.}

How much did it cost? _{I don't remember.}

Look at the reciept. _{I lost it.}

You are going to use it once and take it back, right? _{Nope, they're wise to that old trick. They deduct 25% on returns, if the package is opened.}

You've been practicing....

Today, I have been relieved of any responsibility for getting the stove and oven fixed.

The wife has begun to acquire induction cooking pots, pans and a single station, portable induction stove. Says she's going to take it to work. ??????

The writing is on the wall. Today, during her demonstration of the virtues of induction cooking, she informed me that a convection oven and an induction cook top was in my future. Not in those exact works, mind, but the message was clear.

More later.......................................................

Have you read the CR4 blogs about induction stove top cooking? We have had several here. If you "cook" as well, you will love it, fast, safe, economical and controllable cooking.....

As built in, they are getting cheaper, but not cheap. We have two double units and a single, all portable. And they get "ported" around to help out with friends and camping. I would not recommend buying a built in unit. Total cost, a bit over US$200. If one goes wrong, back to the manufacture (happened once with a new one) or scrapped.

When we bought ours, a built in one cost around US$5000......

No more possibilities of either an oil or fat fire.....now that is REALLY something.....

If I was buying an oven today, I SIMPLY wouldn't! I would buy TWO Halogen glass ovens (US$50 each?), also faster, safer, economical and more healthy.....