Windows 8

I used to program an HP calculator using 'Reverse Polish'. It's hilarious to me that Windows 8 is probably harder to learn than Reverse Polish.

I dreaded this predictable day when W7 would be replaced by an even more complex Op System. And, I did not even get into "reverse polish notation" because I opted for the BMW of calculators [Texas Instruments] rather than the Rolls Royce [HP].

This might well turn out to be a severe set-back. Already as it is, W7 has numerous confusing or irritating obstacles. Am I wrong, but isn't it the user desire to want a convenient yet powerful system ??

Even the new versions of programs like Excel have some irritating new features. Such as the hundreds of icons instead of the drop-down menus.

I thought RPN was great and not hard to learn at all. My first HP calculator, a 33e with 49 program steps, was really quite powerful. Into those 49 steps I was able to squeeze a program which told me where to drill holes in alumnium sheet-metal triangles so that when I pop-riveted them together they drew up into a nice parabolic reflector shape. TI's algebraic scheme took too many steps. On a whim I wrote another program to integrate the area under the bell curve out to an arbtrary number of standard deviations just to prove to myself that it was 1 (it is). The computation took six hours. :(

After the cock-up with Windows Vista and subsequent Office update where everything was moved around for no apparent reason I am not too keen on moving to W8. I recall it took me around a solid month to learn where they put everything in Vista. I saw W8 - it is made for a tablet/touchscreen. On a desk/lap top I can't see any real benefits for the office. They're two different animals. Your colleague's comments are basically correct. In fact there is talk already of a lot of lost productivity making the switch on non-touchscreen devices and I can see how that would happen. No thanks for now.

I have several computers (grandkids) and they run on XP, Vista, W-7, and now W-8.

The only thing that was ever wrong with Vista was it should have been only offered in Ultimate, it then preformed better that XP.

W-8 is different but on the other three the grandkids never know which operating system they are on.

W-8 does take some extra time to get used to but it is worth it.

I have not had any problems running anything that I ran before, either 32-bit or 64-bit!

When I started using computers I had to learn hexadecimal to communicate with my computer - W-8 is far easer than that.

I like W-8 and it is not because I am younger - I am 70 years old.

Quelle surprise!
Del

(I wouldn't touch it with a dead rat on a stick)

Dead rat on a stick you say?

What operating system is that based on (DROS?)and why doesn't Microsoft have a version of their own out by now?

I think he is absolutely right here.

Am also started the use of windows 8 a few days back but now switches back to 7 because of complexity of windows 8 and also not so easy to have work on it with first sight.

Well if people would not spend so much time on their phone you wouldn't have gotten a screen that looks like one! There is an option to have it back to the old start screen.

The change was that BIOS is out dated and only handles 16 bit. It's been replaced with UEFI. Which can handle 64 bit. With it they also set a safe boot mode. It will not boot anything that's not signed. There are other changes like better support of USB 3.0.

You guys have been around a while. Seen that everything changes. Technology faster then most. You guys are not going to fall into the category of old dogs. You know the one that can't learn new tricks.

Got the upgrade last week. Disc still setting on the desk. Just have not had time or mind set to deal with it.

Well, when you have the time to do so, you'll see; Windows 8 is a piece of crap designed to look like Intelligent phones and tablets, it hides everything from your sight and you need to do a hard search for the most elemental applications. If you need any help, you're directed to a web page, as if internet conections were free.

It also shows you miriads of stupid icons that tell you nothing, and when you're done hesitating and venture to click on one, you find that is not an application, but a link to one on the web.

The touch pad performs weird and at the sligthest move, pops up a side tool bar and/or a lower clock, constantly, very anoying really. But you can relatively easy fix this configuring your settings.

If you want to install old applications, they won't run unless they are 64 bit AND are signed. Yeah this was shocking for me, I loved my old stuff.

I haven't been able to see the files' extensions, and/or rename a file so I can change it. Why would I want to do so, is a different story.

Now, the good news:

If you mess with your system and screw it up, your PC will allow you to "reset" windows; what it actally does is a fresh re-instal of windows and start all over again from zero as if you just unpacked your machine, pretty cool I think.

Your machine will boot up in seconds, really ! I liked this very much.

I had not covered all about W8, since I'm new to it, But I actually started getting used and hope I'll be using it fairly well by Feb-Mar '13.

Conclusion: What a whole lot of icons !! so many, that some of them look alike, I wish the applications on the screen had a name instead. Oh ! by the way, turn off auto-update or they'll keep on comming and make you pay more for internet (in the case of a metered connection).

Regards

Before I even considered the purchasing the up date. I asked about the old windows start screen the salesman pushed an F button and it reverted right to it.

Everything you say is true but there are settings to get around even the signed feature.

I'm nicely surprised that you observed that subtle grammar issue. I understand it is very difficult for english speakers.

And don't forget that W8 will send out DOCX and XLSX files that W7 and XP can't read. Merde alors!

I know (bigger) companies that are still on XP for very obvious reasons!

Since all the hardware I use is supplied by company I hopefully do not have to touch W8 anywhen soon.

Running on 7 now and besides Office the change was not too bad.

I installed it onto one of my laptops.

I'll give it this - I booted up faster than I've ever been able to before (on this laptop).

Post getting it up and running, I struggled for a long time trying to navigate where anything was. I had to have a second laptop running next to it with little guides on where to find just about anything.

As someone above me mentioned, you can painfully tell that they designed this with tablets / mobile devices in mind. If Microsoft was amazing, they'd just add all the back burner operations to Windows 7 in a patch so I can enjoy what little benefits 8 has without working with it's GUI, but I know it won't happen. Microsoft has already created the latest DirectX 11.1 to be windows 8 exclusive. Yay.

Rhetorical question:

If Microsoft told us all to strip down and go naked, how many of us would do as told?

This confirms everything horrible about the system I was told.

I get a kick out of one of the commercials advertising 8 wherein everyone just keeps clicking a keyboard to a tablet to make some sort of song. Zero functionality is shown except for that the clicking sound is a thing.

I digress, besides a little CPU optimization during the boot sequence, I saw no real advantage.

I'm naked right now.

My colleague installed W8 on his PC & hated the interface but liked the speed. He found that he could get the old start interface back easily. We still have a PC running Win 98 because our old legacy CAD system won't run on anything later.

I'm naked right now.Whew... I was worried it was just me.Legacy CAD system?
BIll Gates he don' worry about no steenking lagacy CAD system... he don' give a sheeeet about the end user.
Del

Re --- "If Microsoft asked..."

There was a bit of confusion at the Sporting Goods Store this morning.
When I was ready to pay for my purchases of gun powder and bullets the cashier said, "Strip down, facing me."
Making a mental note to complain to the NRA about the Gun Registry people running amok, I did just as she had instructed.
When the hysterical shrieking and alarms finally subsided, I found out that she was referring to my credit card. I have been asked to shop elsewhere in the future.
They need to make their instructions to us seniors a little clearer!

Thank you for the best laugh I've had today!

Pretty easy to use. Took me about 15 minutes to figure out. Pretty neat on the new ultra tablets, touch laptops and touch screens. Have it at home my desktop up dated the screen to a touch works great.

Windows Eight

Every Installation Guarantees Having Trouble

An "Apple" comes to mind as a new unit to look at, after running Windows 8 for a couple of days now.

A pathetic attempt to beat Apple. i wish i could get back the $15 upgrade offer that my son paid. Everything which was working in W7 stopped...iTunes, Webcam,....incredible. Only Microsoft can get away with charging people to screw up their happiness.

A touch screen interface just isn't ergonomically appropriate to a desk top until we have screens which are litterally the desk top... and then one wonders how they will cope with the mug of tea, 'scope, magazines, calculator, verniers, circuit boards, hole punch, stapler, log book, rule, cuddly software bug etc which will adorn it.
How long before someone sues Microsnot for a back injury caused by trying to use a touch screen at the desk?
Lap top or tablet yes... desk top no.
'Bout time they realised you can't just jump on any passing banwagon and expect it to be a good thing.
All the above is just the opinion of a cat, other opinions are also available, they will of course be wrong

Del

We do like to try to embrace new.... but if new is lacking...?

I was informed (miss-informed?) that there is no "restore" option in W8 ?

Have downloaded / messed up / done whatever, sometimes daily to my XP it is
true "heaven" to "restore" (roll back) the whole lot to where it was minutes ago.

The "restore" option has become, for me at the very least, critically essential.
A daily or weekly occurrence (Yes, there is "ghost, and a few other add-ons)

If W8 is without this "minor" facility, it has little or no chance with me.

jt.

Go back to "Go" do not stay in jail, you're a free man, and English!

Could be you need a Time Machine?

Let's hope it doesn't go the way of all other MS products:-

W8 --> Wait

Windows XP with Office '03. My office is in a decade late time warp.

We just got new Nokia work phones...this game Snake is awesome.

I installed a preview version a while back on an older Dell laptop, and it ran smooth as silk. Switching to a regular desktop was easy, but not having a start menu was a pain, as was shutting down. I pulled it off when I sold the laptop. I haven't installed it on any of my other computers because I just don't see a benefit to it for me. I wouldn't say it's like learning a new language, but it's like moving to England. (or the US, if you're British)

"several compainies that I've talked with, NONE are even considering it"

Part of that reason is that transitioning mass amounts of computers to a new OS is an extremely costly endeavor, in terms of time and funding. Funding is obvious - you have to purchase as many liscenses as you need++ (in case of growth). Time includes installing all the OS's and then taking on the arduous task of getting all your software up and running.

The latter problem wasn't too bad for windows 7 in my opinion, most things ran pretty smoothly. Windows 8 looks like it might just be a headache and a half. I imagine it might be neat if I had a touch screen monitor, but that raises another question: "Do I want to spend $300+ for a 15inch monitor that I can poke at?"

Probably not

_{Also, nice engineer avatar. A+}

Even the usually pro-M$ fanbois at CNET and ZDNET are having a hard time being enthusiastic about it. ZD ran a poll of big corporations and found that at least 75% of them had no plans to upgrade!

Linux! Any desktop you want, any boot. I can log out and change GUI without rebooting. I can see everything I want, all the configs are in text files. Security is very good, and I have several VM solutions if a special app needs Windows. Wine works most of the time and VMware and Virtual Box running XP otherwise.

(I'll bet that old CAD system running under 98 will work in WINE under Ubuntu!)

So long Microsoft, thanks for all the fish.

"So long Microsoft, thanks for all the fish."

Took you a while - the original line was written on an Apple .

"In the beginning Microsoft was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and has been widely regarded as a bad move." - Douglas Adams (almost!)

Most people don't know that Apple and Microsoft worked together on the first Macs.

And most don't know that any improvements to MS Office are included in MacOffice two years before Win version comes out - due to an agreement from the time most Apple software was outsourced.

It is in BG's interests to make sure Apple continue, to avoid Monopoly issues.

I use it every day. if you want a 90 day eval Microsoft is giving one away, they will give you a trial download and the activation key but only until the end of the year.

Create a partition on your hard drive and call it drive :D then install the W* system and check it out.

It is different but still other then the start up screen and a few other trinkets it is still the same as W7.

Hi justcauz,

With your evaluation, please could you confirm or refute what I have been told please?

i.e. Does W8 have a "Restore" (to an earlier time) Like XP?

Start -> Help & Support -> Undo changes to your computer with system Restore.

Many thanks for your reply.

jt.

The wife's been missing for over a week now.... the police said be prepared for the
worst. So I've been to the charity shop to get all her clothes back!

Good points.

We have a 13 year old living with us who shows me how to use my smart phone all the time. He makes it look so easy, it makes me mad.

Yeah, my Daughter's 2yo daughter can work her moms iPhone as if born with it in her hand. Just watching how naturally she holds it. How easily she manipulates it, how clearly she understands the visual tiles, its unreal. She can pull up her games and videos and play them with no help at all and she learned to do this herself without help from her mom. Amazing!

Then I think....

She will never know a telephone that was wired to the wall. A television with knobs, with only three stations, all of which signed off at midnight. Or the joys of "typing" a college paper, (20 times because of typos) It boggles the mind!

Me, I can do trig in my head, own a slide rule and know how to use it and still have a hard time placing a call without activating half a dozen things I don't understand. LOL

I HATE my new smart phone!

And, it hates me.

Just got a new laptop with 8. Problems so far:

• can't connect to local network (at least without a lot of work)
• can't set up dual boot with Linux

I've ordered windows 7 and plan to downgrade. It's cheaper to drop the money than invest the time on an operating system that is on the way out. I think what's happened is that the top CS students aren't flocking to MS anymore - they see it as a dinosaur, and the type of folks they get don't seem to have 'the vision thing'. The top talent seems to have moved on to the open source movement and other more promising approaches.

What's the matter with all of you? (referring to the myriad of negative comments) This is progress. I started with punch cards on an IBM 360 way back when, and the changes have not stopped since then. Auto CAD did a similar thing a rev or two ago and changed all the icons. You sit down and learn the new methods and go on. Can't wait to waste several days of work time learning the new Windows. Sounds like a good way to waste time at work and still get paid. Keeps the old gray matter sharp you know.

Even simple things have to be changed every revision. For instance, my favorite bicycle light had to change. The charging port for the USB cable is different on this years model than on last years model so I must keep two cables now, not just one for my three lights. Can't see what this accomplished. Hey, but am I complaining? (well maybe a bit)

Hey Phys, just sayin', but... When AutoCAD jacked up the icon layouts and went to the "ribbon" layout, they still were smart enough to put right at the top of the screen, a pull-down where you could choose "ACAD Classic" menus and icons. I do that every time I see the ribbon. Alas, I still can't use the ribbon, but it does not keep me awake at night and ACAD works just great for me.

Waste time learning a new OS that I already believe is moronic? My day is already filled with things that I enjoy wasting time with, W8 just does not fit in. Maybe I'm just like the old ACAD icons, classic. LOL. Complaining? Heck yeah, that's what old guys do.

You call it progress; I call it obsolescence by design. Like everything in this world, progress is used as the motive to make more money. The public be damned; make more money from the suckers.

Don't get me wrong. I'm for progress just like the next guy, but real progress, not progress measured by fractions of a percent.

Couldn't agree more.

The latest change to MS office is a good example. It isn't any better for me, doesn't do more for me, but they hid all the icon/buttons/features that I used so I had to spend hours looking for the same function that had been moved/hidden for no purpose other than to make people think it was "new and improved".

<rant>

Progress for progress sake is not progress. Most Businesses want a system that does what they want. When they have to change their system just because the OS is "progressing" it pisses them off!

Think about it. If the whiskey tastes great doing it the old way, then why progress?

And, you can't easily franchise a business that depends on a technology system that is static in a world of so called "progress" technologies.

People use the systems as tools. If we have to keep changing the jobs we're doing because the hammers were forced into an "upgrade" then nothing would get built.

The progress needs to have a connection to the past, the basis of the last success. Linux is such an OS. Even though it is progressing, it is possible to keep it up to date without destroying it's current working state. The worlds biggest collections of server run it because it can be "maintained". There is no such thing with Windows. Ever few years is a guaranteed new installation, training, and delays waiting for the software vendors to catch up to the same changes.

</rant>

Win8 is nothing more than Microsoft's playing yet another game of catch-up with the Apple Joneses. It brings touch-screen capability to their 'Surface' - and everything else, whether it needs it or not. A new coat of paint for the old Redmond Dinosaur, may it rest in peace - with all speed.

No, thanks.

Ever since Bill Gates wanted royalties from programmers for every copy sold of programs compiled with his C compiler (this goes back a way), Microsoft has wanted to be in everyones' pocket.

You don't think they have eyes on that Apple store and wish they could do the same thing Apple does (a piece of every sale), for every application that runs on Windows?

Think again.

(or worse, a micropayment "click" charge every time you run a program! The fancy name for this is SaaS - Software as a Service)

You can bet that'd go over like a lead balloon. Every inane thing either company pulls is just one more reason to kick both companies to the curb and go with Linux exclusively (or one of its derivatives, such as Android).

No, and I hope I never do. At work I was forced to get a new PC with Win7. Most machines there are still XP. We had to upgrade BASIC for $500 for each PC, upgrade MetTrack for $3000+. Fluke told us it would work with XP too, but it doesn't. Their LogWare temperature program takes half a day to get going after a re-boot with Win 7. It appears to store the data (no errors) but when you look in the file, there is no data.

We have a MI resistance bridge that runs on Win 3.1. We tried several years ago to make it run on Win 95, but it wouldn't. They wanted $64,000 to upgrade it for XP plus $1000 for the software, but management didn't go for it. Now that option is gone.

At home I intend to stick with XP indefinitely or switch over to Ubuntu which is free.

"Win8 roasting on an open fire,

Bill Gates nipping at your nose wallet..."

A few more verses and you may stop Slakcy. The competition is open on ' twelve days of engineering christmas'. Current fave is PW's. It's either Del or Slacky- unless you can do better. I don't care, I'll smash it to bits and get my share.

Link, please?

Yeah, it died just as I was posting (grrrrrrr). Must be a weekend coming up. Yup, they're running this show on Small & Limp servers, so are we surprised? I simply cannot fathom why *anybody* would pay a buttload of money for Microsoft serverware when they can run LAMP (Linux/Apache/MySQL/Perl) serverware for free and that seven times more reliable on average than anything Redmond spews. Might as well just burn your money and get it over with, you know?

.

Even MS would agree (I wonder why they k££p quiet?$?) - their super computer OS is Unix-based.

Has to be. Windows doesn't scale. For one thing, M$ bound the GUI too tightly to the O/S, which makes no sense at all for systems sporting a quarter-million processor nodes or more, such as IBM's new Series-L machine for the U.S. Dept. of Energy. 10 petaflops, or 10.1 million floating-point instructions in the time it takes a beam of light to travel one foot. Try that, Windows.

The *nix world decoupled the user interface from the OS ages ago. I was using X-Windows in the early nineties. You can even log-on remotely and get your GUI wherever you are whilst the machine you're actually running your stuff on could be anywhere else, even in space (if you can stand the latency). Not M$. Oh, no, they're still stuck in the 80's where that's concerned.

It's a bluddy dinosaur. Thankfully, Time waits for no O/S.

Thanks.

Good answer

Win 8 Failing to Boost PC Sales

A question for the OS that I have is how easy it is to have two+ monitors running at the same time. I've only fiddled with it on my laptop, and would be curious to know if it has any kind of dual screen configuration. At the present moment, I'm utilizing UltraMon to have two separate taskbars (one for each monitor) and would be quite sad to lose that kind of functionality to a metro screen.

If it works as-is, why 'fix' it? The question arises only because Win8 is now available, but did you find yourself pining for it before it was released?

Did anyone?

I was curious! ...and there was a glitch wherein you could upgrade the trial version to a full version (it worked) and I wanted to test it :|

"There was a glitch..."

Just one?