Big Bro? Can WOPR Be Far Behind?

Yes. Nothing will be private soon. This is the world we live in. Everything will be known and controlled.

klaatu barada nikto.

If only. I'd prefer Klaatus, as depicted (1951 version; the remake was inferior to me), running around, acting to stop violence, over human surveillance. There is an interesting episode in the second incarnation of "Outer Limits," called "Family Values" about a robot "enforcing" family values.

I guess it's time to paint the top of my car the color of asphalt and only drive on overcast days. Maybe add a fog device, too, to generate my own local cloud.

Or stick to riding subways.

Maybe also radar deterring paint, Faraday case, aluminium hat and white noise speakers

or just move?

Maybe add a fog device, too, to generate my own local cloud.

My first car was like that. Used to go through a lot of oil.

In anticipation of this new technology we have been working around the clock(on the weekends), to develop the Solar Shadow© cloaking device(currently under negotiation with Kris-Del and LynDoor industry for distributorship) to counter this invasion of privacy....Starting at just $9999.00 you can live between the cracks, much as you do now, but without being seen, as much....

SolarShadow© garb going on sale on an internet site near you....soonish

Scary stuff.

I think they actually have the capability to be able to tell if a person has dandruff, from those distances though.

Censored.

I'll have to PM this to you.

You need to have a 6 inch dandruff for this! You do not need high tech for this!

Seems like I remember seeing something in the 80s or 90s, where they already had the technology to zoom in on a pack of smokes and be able to read the brand.

It's the stuff they're not telling us about, that worries me.

In the Book 1984 (or Brave new World), there was a tiny spot in someone's apartment where one character could hide and not be on camera at Big Bro Central.

There ain't no such spot any more.

6" is the claim. However, you could just about make out the fingers on that one guy if you looked close.

Aso, I think those images are probably intentionally defocused so as to not expose the true capabilities of the system and You Tube is not the paragon of resolution.

I seem to remember claims of identifying objects about the size of a pack of cigarettes from an orbiting satellite, so I would expect that higher resolution is cable or already in the development pipeline and about to be released.

What we saw was also just the visible spectrum. I would expect IR and more is already possible.

This was featured on tonight's (Feb. 05) Nova program on PBS.

Ooh...I like this! It makes criminals worry and and honest people, well, I guess they aren't really honest if they have something to hide!

You are not thinking straight. Do you want your competitor's cousin reading your business strategy? Does a football coach want the opposition;'s coach's wife to read the special plays put in for the game? Do you want the incumbent politicians to read the opposition.s strategy for the next election?

Absolutely.....GA

Our ancestors have endured terrible hardships, fought wars, died in the act of defending these rights, don't be so quick to give them up just because you don't understand their importance.....

Doesn't the patriot act break that Amendment?

Yes, it does. However, the Patriot Act was not the first time in US history where the liberties of citizens were infringed upon in the name of national security.

For instance, in 1942 Japanese Americans were relocated into War Relocation Camps. That is just one example of many through our history. It was not uncommon to temporarily curtail or suspend certain liberties in the interest of national security. In every case those were temporary and repealed once the national threat was neutralized.

However, the major difference with the Patriot Act and those acts that followed is that the war on terrorism has no foreseeable end. This makes these intrusions into our liberty truly open ended and ever expanding.

There is no question that the Patriot Act has been invaluable in keeping the domestic peace, but it opens up a new Pandora's box with the open-endedness of the war on terror.

Even though the United States is going through a generational shift of policy from a proactive foreign policy to a reactive foreign policy, the threat of terrorism will always be a significant force in domestic policy. Actors such as the Middle East, Asia, and Africa will continue to take their own path. The US, Europe, or other nations will no longer be able to shape those outcomes like they did with the old autocratic regimes of the past.

While the Mid East appears to be moving toward democracy with the Arab Spring, there simply are too many internal factions within each nation that will not be able to work together for a common statehood. This will continue to fuel instability and volatile behavior for generations.

That international volatility will be the engine to keep the Patriot Act active along with future additions and refinements to those laws - all in the name of national security and regardless of our foreign policy.

The 21st century will be known as significant shift in domestic liberties for the United States and the rest of the free world.

It is exactly that absolute power that corrupts absolutely that I have a problem with.

I can't remember if you were in on the news article about the police cars that recorded thousands of license plates every day. I had a problem with the invasion of privacy that comes with that kind of digital recording. I don't like the idea that fixed or mobile cameras can record my vehicle's registration (identification) plate and track my travels. I thought that I should be free to travel or visit anywhere I like with a certain amount of privacy. My problem with that was it could damage my career if I chose to frequent a particular establishment that was frowned upon by my employers. I know the police are not supposed to release that kind of information but tell that to any politician who was caught visiting a pornographic cinema.

This is just more evidence that we as citizens of our societies have given away our rights to privacy by not being aware or acting on what laws our government enacts. Or what privacy we sign away when we click "ok" on facebook's latest TOS update.

Drew K

Let me add:

The Federal Government was never supposed to turn over the printing of our money to a private bank (called the Federal Reserve) who we now pay over $300 billion a year to guarantee the value of our money.

The Federal Government was not allowed to maintain a standing army for more than two years, the budget of which had to be re-approved every six months.

Imminent Domain. . .

-A-

I've seen few single statements that can garner so many GAs, but I added mine. This is by far one of the most insightful and honest answers, well stated and erudite, I've ever seen on CR4. And I consider CR4s respondents to generally be the cream of the crop!

Well said, well considered.

GA for another very well stated answer. This is an aspect of "nanny state" that had never occurred to me. Goes to show that even when it's under my nose all of my 58+ years, it ISN'T obvious. At least not to me.

Thank you for a good analysis.

Tell that to the abused woman who wishes to hide her current address from her abusive ex-husband!

Thre's an 'app' for that...

Supposedly, there will be 10s of thousands of these over the US.

I'm just wondering how they were made safe from accidentally crashing into commercial aircraft or civilian areas.

Was it windows Vista?

The movie "Enemy of the State" comes to mind. It's cool from a technological point of view but a bit scary from the expectation of living in a free society point of view.

It would be interesting to know if it would be considered a violation of privacy.

I am generally not opposed to surveillance cameras in public places as long as there is ample signage informing the public they are being watched. However, if this technology is also able to gather data from infrared allowing it to see inside buildings and cars, then I would not approve. As in the case of surveillance cameras on the street, the public should be warned they are under Big Brothers watchful eye.

Fortunately, it's no one with an agenda that will be doing this; just friendly little government groups like the EPA............

http://news.yahoo.com/midwest-ranchers-lawmakers-protest-epa-flyovers-080146368.html;_ylt=AkWSl.iaGdS9Qm2UIIMTK0emWot4;_ylu=X3oDMTZkdWRpOGJkBGNjb2RlA2dtcHRvcDEwMDBwb29sd2lraXVwcmVzdARtaXQDQXJ0aWNsZSBNaXhlZCBMaXN0IE5ld3MgZm9yIFlvdSB3aXRoIE1vcmUgTGluawRwa2cDMmFhNDA5MGUtOGJjZi0zZWE5LWE2ZDktOTA4MmE0OTkzNTQ0BHBvcwM3BHNlYwNNZWRpYUJMaXN0TWl4ZWROZXdzRm9yWW91Q0FUZW1wBHZlcgM0Yjc0M2E2MS1jNDU4LTExZTEtOWJmMS0xMDNiZWQ3MTNhN2E-;_ylg=X3oDMTNiZ3ZwMWJmBGludGwDdXMEbGFuZwNlbi11cwRwc3RhaWQDYTFmZTYxM2UtNWZlZS0zNGRkLTg3MWEtNDJhNTZhNjg2NGUzBHBzdGNhdANwb2xpdGljc3xkZXN0aW5hdGlvbjIwMTIEcHQDc3RvcnlwYWdl;_ylv=3

Answer this: how on earth can they store a million terabytes daily. Not to mention, as the system/resolution gets bigger the data storage would take up. . . . how much space, how much power, how much money? No taxpayer will say this is money well spent. We need to stop acting so helpless against "the man." The simple fact that we would never be able to trust the monitors of said system is enough to pull the plug.

http://rt.com/news/utah-data-center-spy-789/

That's the big one. Also, sprinkled through the US, will be "Fusion" centers. These will perform eavesdropping operations and data collection and storage on a more localized level, and will tie together the federal effort with local law enforcement...........all with no congressional oversight whatsoever.

http://www.dhs.gov/state-and-major-urban-area-fusion-centers

This is a good site to keep up with what they are doing:

http://epic.org/privacy/fusion/

We are also being encouraged to watch each other, although, I would say that 9 out of 10 Walmart shoppers are "suspicious".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Czoww2l1xdw&feature=player_embedded

I thought it was crazy that it could keep track of many different people and cars at the same time and that it could look at the same exact spot days before.

I don't think most people understand what is going on right now with personal freedom. They only get their news from 10 second sound bites and TMZ.

If you talk about it they think you are paranoid and/or crazy.

Have you not noticed that the Department of Homeland Security seems to have their hands in everything?

...and this is why you should invest in companies that sell "storage technology"!

THe capabilities shown in the movie "Enemy of the State" are what was possible in the early 1980's. Imagine what they can do today. Especially since they no longer need to use satellites. Drones, RC helicopters, and the like are quickly replacing the expensive and very limited satelite survellance of the past.

Heck I remember seeing declassified photos taken by an SR71 Blackbird in the 60's that were astounding in their resolution and clarity.

And they said it could never happen here yet what are we debating on the Hill this month but the use of drones to track and eliminate "suspected" terrorists right here on US soil.

Well then, sounds like everyone in the "wrong" will be S****ed, and BTW "wrong" is in the eye of the beholder.

If people do not find this at least slightly disturbing, I really wonder about the viability of survival of the human race as anything but other than human.

All it will take past this, is for someone with enormous power and no morality to simply wipe out the opposition using surgical strikes.

IF political correctness is OK with you, and constant surveillance of normal civilians going about their daily activities is also OK with you, then you really should seek professional help, but choose wisely.

Now all we need is "SKYNET".... and the Terminator

Nothing like having to explain to the computer why you need privacy in your own bedroom.

I'm Sorry Dave.....

One of the main problems is that most people are ok with giving up their freedom if it will make them safer. Or at least the belief that they are safer.

I would quote Bejamin Franklin at you but .....

Anyway.

You may wonder what my last two are about. Its called capitalism. How long will it be before some Neocon/Teaparty wonk suggests its too expensive to have people sit and look at compute screens when face recognition software can do it faster cheaper better and imagine the money we will save when we eliminate those pesky drone pilots and just let the homeland security computer take a drone out and eliminate the previously computer identified threat. Then a bill will be crafted to include lots of pork so everyone will vote for it and viola!

Ain't America Great!

Wasn't it something like "those would would give up their freedom for security deserve neither"

I think you greatly misunderstand the the Teaparty.

Greetings JB,

I'll acknowledge that is a possibility. Given I have only had one afternoon to talk in depth with them. I will say Sara Palin is a nice person in person. However, I would not trust the Tea Party Patriots out of Minnesota any farther than I can throw them. This was all at the big tax day rally in Madison a year or so ago. I got invited as one of the leaders of the opposition. All I can say is after 30 years in the south is you get real good at picking up on secessionist tendencies and lingo. Ala all those petitions on the White House Web Site. I signed the Missouri pizza party one.

BTW, Tom Baker was my favorite Doctor.

Thank You JB,

That is a good answer if I ever heard one. Well stated and worthy of respect.

A GA and a tip o the hat from another old school Republican.

I'm with you both, and think this an excellent idea (and another GA), but I wonder, given the mess the lifetime-suckers-at-the-public-trough routinely make of the job now, for the most venal of reasons, how long would it take them to decide that the Dance Studio in Walla Walla would enhance the ability of soldiers hailing from Walla Walla and its surroundings to prosecute a war, based on (esthetic sense, agility, balance, what? Pick your excuse, I don't think ANY would be too ridiculous for a Congress Person intent on Pork collection to use).

The problem, as always, seems to be "who is going to watch the watchers", particularly when the watched regulate everything including the ability of the watchers to watch, with impunity?

And I, too, am an Old-School Republican. But I'm no longer as Republican as I was, cause for the life of me, I can't find ANY of the current crop of Republicans in my Old School Yearbooks. I don't think they attended the same schools we did, for all their Old-School and Old Values rhetoric.

Or maybe that's just because the corruption of values sets in too fast to see the underlying values, once they hit that office.

Or, sigh, maybe I'm just getting more cynical as I see more, and seeing more, as I get older.

Your last two posts seemed pretty clear. It's this post that I am scratching my head over. That is, what exactly is your point?

Its about how quickly fears become reality.

Science Fiction becomes fact.

How we sit back and watch it happen.

Clearly convinced of the rightness and goodness of it all in "protecting " us.

So I guess I had better throw down the Franklin quote after all.

"Anyone who trades liberty for security deserves neither liberty nor security"

I wish it were not so.

-A-

I'm having a hard time wrapping my mind around the ONE MILLION TERRA-BYTE (sp) A DAY storage capacity!!!!! (Obviously their credit line at Tiger Direct must be much greater than mine.) My security camera DVR (recording 10 cameras) has recorded 24/7 for 3 years on 2 terra-bytes. (just not at that resolution, and only when motion is detected) Obviously they don't use any type of video compression at that immense data storage requirement. (WOW)

On Big Brother, that's getting to be the world we live in. Personal privacy is becoming a thing of the past. Sure do miss the "Leave It To Beaver" days.

This will only have some resolution when some citizen or group of citizens finds a way to get the crux of the privacy issue somehow before the Supreme Court. On a quick search I couldn't find such. Others here might be able to correct that view.

What makes any case hard to prove is that the data -- videos, emails, phone calls, etc. -- are considered (or would be claimed to be) Top Secret as a security risk and would probably be denied to any Congressional panel.

So... one suggestion would be to design a "personal" mirror ball that could be carried around by citizens that would rotate and wobble in a pattern that would pretty much cover the overhead window with a bright reflection from the sun. (Obviously, not effective on a cloudy day.) It would certainly degrade the video data available by "saturation" blips. I realize this would probably, quickly, be argued to be similar to laser pointers. But a case might come of it that could be used to test the privacy issue. Unfortunately, public space has, for the most part, been determined to be "open" space and non-private. I think citizens have a right to question how far it extends, even in open spaces. Jeez, we went from at least requiring warrants for such eavesdropping to "we can do whatever we want and there's nothing anyone can do to stop us." Another alternative would be for us all to walk around in public inside a generic, lightweight, "box" outfit. That shouldn't be illegal. Or should it? How about making it an argument for public nudity? The slogan could be, "We have nothing to hide."

One article in defense of the PA's legality elicited the expected number of comments. (Better kept there than here, eh?)

I think I've mentioned it before, but the movie, "The President's Analyst," (1967) presaged this a long time ago and is a great satire. One of my favorite, if dated movies.

http://www.businessinsider.com/dhs-fletc-ammunition-purchases-750-million-200-million-40-caliber-rounds-2013-1

Yeah. And with THAT many rounds, what's next. The GA-(X)(U) guns for the vehicles that allow them to saturate the crowds (a la the AC-130 gunships) with rounds? I mean, if you have that many, you must plan to use them. And THAT many rounds probably drives a very fast method of using a lot of them, since you have to cycle rounds out of storage ( and store new ones) regularly to keep the ones stored from becoming unreliable.

Wait, you mean AMMO has a shelf life?

Yep. So how are they going to use/burn up/cycle that many rounds before they get too stale for either re-use, or DRMO (look it up) re-sale?

The Gatling guns? Just a thought.

Ok, so how is this political? What does this have to do with engineering? Why are we talking about it?

First, this is America, so eventually everything becomes political. If Lockheed Martin wants to make billions on a new technology the first things they have to do is lobby and make campaign contributions. Then the politicians write the bill and force the votes and LM gets its contract.

Second, this forum is a place of discussion. This is a discussion. A discussion on whether or not this level of intrusion is a good thing or not.

Third, Well none of this technology would exist except for talented folks like engineers who take those miraculous scientific discoveries and turn them into recon drones, smart bombs, high res cameras, etc.

Lastly it is a discussion about responsibility.

We are doubly responsible for this stuff guys. We are the ones smart enough to make it happen AND to see where it will lead.

Ah, but there is that one word many Americans seem to have a problem with, Responsibility.

I am responsible for my creations AND for the good or bad that is done with them.

Do we often acknowledge the debt we owe those brave scientists and engineers who realised Adolf Hitler was the wrong person to have developed nuclear capabilities and so kept pointing the research down the wrong path until the Allies could take the facility out?

Something to think about.

Lyn: (1) this post is showing in "ultra-wide" on my monitor, and I have fallen and I can't get up...ROFLMAO.

(2) What would happen if you fire a fairly strong infrared laser beam (pulsed) into the 360 eyes of this drone? I bet I am on a watch list now, if I wasn't already. BTW I don't own a laser (yet).

I suspect it would be the same thing that would happen if it only had one eye. See my post about the beanie with the mirrors AND the light source. I thought about saying "pulsed laser", but figured THAT would put me on the watch list (I'm saying it now. I like your company!).

Low level would cause sufficient "bloom" at least momentarily, to cause all loss of useful vision. Repeated bloom, with sufficient persistence in the receptors could cause a longer term loss of vision, but still only as long as the signal was repeated (and of course, smarter receptors, less persistence of vision, a lot of other factors could be engineered into the platform to at least partially defeat the sender), but the downside of an "only effective while sending" system is that the bloom itself would identify the sender's position, even if current activity details is masked by the bloom. And if the powers that were observing were sufficiently determined to stop the bloom-producer, or watch his/her behavior (Oh, hey, this guy wants his PRIVACY? We need to watch him to see what he's up to. Only bad guys want privacy! If he has NOTHING TO HIDE [sound familiar to some empty heads up there?) he wouldn't NEED or CARE ABOUT privacy [or personal rights, or any of that other useless drivel that WE decided he doesn't have a legitimate need for]), they'd assign enough law-enforcement effort to the bloom-producer to catch him/her, and put him/her under a permanent roof where the bloom would stop, and they could get on with their "observation" of all the other sheeple in the world, who would quickly understand that they were being watched for their own good, and not cause any more trouble.

Nope, I think the only successful approach would be a high-powered laser in the headset, triggered by specific inputs (to be designed/modified later as needed) to permanently fry the eyeballs in the sky.

And THAT would REALLY get the LE fur flying!

Do any of you watch "Person of Interest"?
How long until that's a reality show?
Geez.

My guess is the Members of CR4 are gonna be invited!