Saline Eye Wash

Hello Mechanic:

What's wrong with just pure water ? Most chemicals or mechanical agents state in their first aid label: "In case of contact with the eyes, flush with plenty of water" many of them for 15 minutes or more, so I figure that you'll get soar eyes but it's got to be better than no treatment at all.

Hopefully, pure water meets all standards to flush the eyes.

I have been told that the salt is supposed to reduce the chance of the irritation that plain water can cause. In addition the salt acts to help sterilize and protect against infection. The normal saline solution is also used to irrigate wounds instead of plain water for the same reason.

In the UK, no liquid other than water is used in a First Aid situation, apart from sugar-based drinks for a known diabetic who is clearly undergoing a hypoglycemic event. The purpose of First Aid is to buy time until more specialised help can arrive.

In a litigation-based culture, as seems to be the case from observations of other nations, the legal basis of the proposed change needs to be checked thoroughly before invoking it.

One might ask why there is a perceived issue with the cost of eyewash? Is there a process materials containment problem that needs urgent address instead?

The reason for the saline solution in these units is due to the fact they sit for a month or more. Stagnant water draws bacteria and can cause lots of issues on the sensitive skin in the eye. Yor can test the PH levels on the water per the OSHA requirements and extend the use of these units by a few months. Read the 1910 standards and it will explain what is required.

Why not have a tap water fountain type and a portable bottle type eyewash with more effective ingredients that lasts longer....we used to use the bottles with the eye cup with milk....

We have a faucet mounted unit in the shop. We also have this one in an area where there is not a water supply. Since we already have this nice gravity unit we hope to continue using it.

Do you use special fluid in your faucet mounted unit, or tap water?

Edit: ↓You're welcome.

Straight tap water. The unit doubles as a faucet. Pull out a diverter and it is then an eyewash station. We have talked about plain water in the gravity unit because the plumbed unit is supposed to be OK. But, since the gravity unit sits idle I thought it had to have the salt in it. I have a lot to learn about the safety regulations and do not want to do anything that will cause problems with an inspection.

My thought is that if I need to flush my eyes, I'll do it with anything I can get my hands on.

Congratulations on your attention to personal safety.

I can't see where it is specifically adressed.

However, OSHA 29 CFR 1910.151 says (in part)

Eye Wash Stations, Maintenance and Training... "Gravity feed units according to manufacturers instructions."

So, if the manufacturers datasheets allow your prepared solution, then it should be okay. I suspect the manufacturer wants you to purchase prepared eyewash, but might be worth a look.

Thanks Lyn. Great reading. I will reread this a few more times. It looks like what I have been searching for.

Everything above is good reading, and when you're done, make sure you consult with your Workmens' Comp Insurance carrier who may have "recommendations" that you must follow to ensure that they will provide coverage for an accident.

Have two of the portables here in use. The additive is a preservative. Propylene glycol and Chlorhexidine gluconate from the msds of what we use. $15 a bottle doesn't seem like much to treat for 6 months. Especially to insure when someone in an emergency is not going to flush with contaminated water and do more harm then good. Also Sperian is a Honeywell product if your getting the additive from them your being gouged. So shop around!

I did as the OEM of ours was quite pricey too.

Yep, Sperian is over the top on prices. That is what started this little venture. I was going to pick up another brand but the more I searched the more I kept reading the same thing. Saline Solution. I figure I can make salt water about as well as the next guy. I have read some people are using baking soda as the PH buffer but I was just going to go with plain Normal Saline. I am not a chemist. If I was I could make a lot more in my spare time than I ever could with a mill or lathe. But I hear prison food isn't very good. Tends to get boring after the first few years.

At the chemical plant sites I worked at we also used the portable pressure units (ours were 5 and 10 gallons) if no water was readily available or an eye-wash/safety shower was out of service for repair. We would use tap water and replace it at least once a week. Every month we would thoroughly wash it inside with J&J baby shampoo to kill any potential bad stuff. The baby shampoo has a pH of 7.0, same as the eyes, so any residual material would not hurt the eyes. They were then rinsed extremely well to remove any left over shampoo and refilled with tap water.

If for any reason it was anticipated that the unit would not be able to dumped and refilled within a week some salt, USP, was added.

All this was based on faucet eye washes use tap water, frequent replacement of the water cut down on bad stuff growing in the water, washing was done with a soap that wouldn't irritate the eyes if any was left over and these units were inspected on a weekly basis. It also got the blessing of the local eye doctor and hospital.

Good Luck, Old Salt

The LAST thing you want in your eyes is SALT if you get it wrong.

Secondly SALT can react with other chemicals causing further damage if you have the ratio wrong and use to much salt, what is wrong with tap water? Then there is the insurance issue and also there are quality issues.

As to why you need 10 gallons is also surprising, how big are the eyes you are washing, 10 gallon is a body wash!

As you said portable, does this mean that someone has to cart this thing AND 10 gallon of water to a work location, set it up and THEN start work?

I think the way to go is to improve safety first with extra training in eye care, extra safety glasses/goggles/visors, paired workers and each one carries a bottle of eye wash or there are small static eye wash stations using small bottles (mentioned in a previous answer) in various locations

However you know your business better than anyone of us here , and what is best suited for your situation.

A last word of caution.. "home made" is just that.. made at home, for the home!

I try not to give to much information when I post as it could turn in to a book easily. Maybe I should have given the environment this is used in. University machine shop. Possible contaminates in the eye would be: water soluble cutting fluids from CNC machine tools, WD-40 (used with scotch brite pads for polishing aluminum parts), metal chips from machining process, very few other chemicals in the lab.

As for portable this unit is mounted on a structural post in the middle of the lab that happens to have a drain next to it. Location chosen for quicker access then having to stumble around behind machines to get to the plumbed in unit on the sink basin. The size of the unit was recommended to us based on the flow rate of the nozzles and required rinse time. Commercial unit made by a reputable manufacturer, Sperian.

I never considered salt to be a problem as it would be mixed the same as what is used in commercially available single use disposable bottles. Basic weights and measures should not be too difficult to handle. A good quality digital scale borrowed from the science lab as needed should be sufficient until we purchase our own.

As for home made, I can buy water out of a vending machine for a $1.00 per 20 ounces or I can drink home made for almost free at $28.00 for around 30,000 gallons. Both have been treated by professionals not me. The difference is the size of the bottle and dispensing method.

With budgets being tighter every year I am only looking to see where we can cut costs without causing problems.

While I read your reply, and please do not misunderstand me, I feel you pain with regards to budgets, I can only offer this cautionary word "Liability"

Please do not make your own.. the insurance for the college or university will not cover your attempt if it goes wrong and in the society of "let's sue the butt off everyone", if something did go wrong with your 'homemade' eye wash, YOU will be held responsible.

What would be the claim for a bright young student, top of his class, the world at his feet, a bright and rewarding future in from of him, possibility of becoming a giant in his profession if YOU have taken all that away because YOU used your 'homemade' eye wash and this bright student etc, etc.... goes blind?

(What is really scary is the irate parents that would be looking to separate your head from your shoulders IF you blind their offspring)

My other half works in ICU, and after talking about your proposal she stated that if they have a bottle of saline that they suspect is open, it's thrown because of contamination. Pre-packed and sealed eyewash is sterile.. how do you propose to achieve that level? Using the science lab auto-clave?

Mores the point, I refer you to my previous comments and you and the university improve your safety and safety eyewear.

That brings me to another point.. if you use so much 'eye wash' why are you using so much eye wash?

I would seem to me that you and your university have MAJOR safety issues.

In 40 years of industrial working and I've worked in steel, off-shore oil, construction and deserts, I can count on my one hand the number of times I have or a nurse has washed my eyes.

I think you and the university need to take a long and hard look at safety, before you worry about the cost of 10 gallons of eye wash water

I understand the concerns you have mentioned. Same concerns we discussed here at th shop. In 16 years with the university I only know of 3 injuries requiring medical attention and none had to do with the eyes. Safety is NOT something we take lightly in the machine shop. So, yes, a little offended that you imply we are tuning out new members of the "Blind Mold Makers Society". As for the legal side of this, that is exactly why we are seeking the clarification before making the switch. Here is how I view this topic. We buy an $80.00 bottle of sterile solution and mix it with non-sterile tap water. How does that differ from opening a new box of the proper type of salt and pouring it into the same tap water? I know how to use a digital scale. I know to use a clean paper liner on the scale. Does not sound to difficult to make salt water. I have been trying to make contact with the local OSHA safety agent but he has been away for training this week. When he returns we are going to meet and discuss this. I will report my findings here. Oh, and yes I will get everything in writing and add it to the CYA File (MSDS book) for future reference.

while I am sure you are covering every base, and CYA, as to how when and where you do it really is of little concern.

When one asks of an opinion, and they are in abundance as you well know, you must expect comments you either don't like, touch a nerve or have enlightened you!

As to how my comments affected you... I'm not really bothered.. my comments were intended to be ones of caution, not ones doubting your ability to use a weighting scales and filter paper.

As person who has working in heavy engineering for all of my career, steel and oil, plus having numerous national and international safety qualifications and I am also a ISO 9000series Lead auditor, so I come across many situations where someone is to blame for something going wrong.

I do not think it is your or the university's intention to turn out "bllind mould makers", but it could happen... hence my one word ..caution!

I hope you get the result you wish for, and it is achieved safely!

The general idea is to get the mixture to be the same as the liquid your body puts in your eyes already. Guaranteed there is some salt in there.

A bit OT, but related; I was using "nasal wash" packets to mix up a solution for nasal rinse. Mostly salt, with some pH neutralizing agents. I ran out of the packets, and decided to just use untreated tap water. What a mistake, I can still recall how much that burned! There's good reason for the salt in there; to make it the same as what's in your body already.

Tom D.

Most first aid recommendations for chemical or other eye irritation is a 15 minute flush or more. If my eyes need to be cleaned out, I will want more water not less. Less than 10 gallons available in a shop is asking for trouble from OSHA when an incident occurs.

AMEN! YES! The recommended flushing of the eyes is at least 15 minutes although many people flushing their eyes or those helping them do it for a much shorter time. In my career in the chemical industry, including an assignment for 15 years as the Safety Manager for a major chemical company that used and made real nasty stuff, I have NEVER heard of anyone suffering more damage to the eyes from flushing the eyes for 15 minutes or longer. Many about people suffering more from not flushing the eyes long enough. Too many war stories about insufficient flushing end up with permanent eye damage.

The eye washes I referred to in #14 were heavy due to the weight of the water. We often used hand trucks to move then if necessary, but well worth the bother. They are commercially available and fabricated of Stainless Steel, very similar to the units that soda (pop) syrup is shipped in and automatically dispensed from. They also had a hand nozzle so that they could be used as a portable safety shower. They were well appreciated by employees and contractors.

On the subject of salt in the water, the concentration in the units was much less than sea water. It was only placed in the water if it would be difficult to replace the water weakly, such as within a confined space or in an area difficult to get to. I and many others open their eyes while swimming in sea water. We don't suffer from that.

The problem with the commercially available eye washes is usually that they are only about a quart of solution in the special dispenser bottle. Much less than necessary.

Obviously I agree with your reply and your approach to the subject, simple but exceeding effective.

Good Luck, Old Salt

WALOOB!
Presumably that's why we can't swim in the sea without our eyes exploding?

Blimey you can sprinkle salt on your tonge and it doesn't kill you!

Natural body fluids are salty. A salt solution is a much better match to the body than plain water.
I regularly have to sniff up hot salty water and spit it out to rinse my sinuses.
I suggest you try it with warm salty water, it's not pleasant.
Then try it with plain water, it's horrendous, your body tells you you are drowning and it is painful to the lining of your sinuses.
Del

Recently I had some conjunctivitis. My doctor recommended I wash my eyes two or three times a day with salt water at the ratio of 1 teaspoon per glass. I tried first with plain water and that stung so I followed his directions ( 1/2 teaspoon for half a glass of water ) and that was much better. I mixed the salt with water from the kettle so that any bugs would have been boiled and presumably dead. I know, I know, dead bugs can be harmful, and boiling doesn't always remove the nasties. But the upshot is the boiled tap water is a little better than unboiled. There is a product called VISINE that is basically saline and that has a short use by date. So I guess home made saline would also need to be changed within a month.

Lots of GA's especially #5. Note that where preservatives are mentioned the propylene glycol is actually a lubricant or humectant. From a liability standpoint I would suggest that you use salt as proposed and do not add anything else- there is no buffering capacity to salt, but it will act as a preservative. Just use RO water (this should be available in a university??) instead of tap water if possible as there will be significantly lower organics to promote bacterial growth, replace it monthly or weekly as you decide, and KEEP IT SEALED FROM THE AIR.

Might be a good exercise for the students to teach them responsibility for personal safety?

I have the Sperian bottle on my desk and here is what it says:

Ingrediente Activo: Agua purificada

OOPS wrong side of the bottle for me.

Active Ingredient: Purified water

Inactive Ingredients: benzalkonium chloride, edetate disodium, sodium chloride, sodium phosphate dibasic, sodium phosphate monobasic

Directions: Concentrate must be diluted 1 part concentrate with 10 parts potable water. Replace solution no longer than 6 months after mixing.

The cost is no issue. What is important is using the proper solution, changing it out as recommended, and keeping the records to prove it. Not doing that could cost your employer and you fines and possibly cancelled insurance.

Only OSHA can answer this question as they, alone, interpret the meaning and intent of their rules. OSHA's General Duty Clause can be used to allow or disallow about anything. Writing a letter to request an interpretation does not cost anything it can save everything. Many of the comments contain very good GENERAL information, but OSHA standards must be "site specific" so, a letter of interpretation will protect you. -- JHF

Hello, this paper will clear any doubt you may have:

http://www.tdi.texas.gov/pubs/videoresource/wpeyewashsafet.pdf

Regards

Sorry it has been so long getting back but I have been waiting on the "Official" answer from OSHA. They ended up referring to the ANSI standards. Which in reading the standards it is very vague. Basic verbage is many solutions can be used but recommend a buffered solution with additives to prevent bacteria. When I asked what solutions I could use I had to wait again for another person to reply. The official response to my question is use whatever the manufacturer of the station recommends. So according to that we have to use Sperian in a Sperian station. There is also a question about whether or not we can have this portable unit in our shop. It is stated that if there is a potable water source and the cost is not prohibitive then a portable station is not allowed.

Thanks to everyone that took time to reply to this thread. I have learned a great deal through your comments and my own research. I have always found it very interesting when dealing with OSHA that we need to buy a copy of the rules in order to know what we are supposed to be doing. Even with todays technology and no need to print and mail materials we still have to pay for the information.