The Most Common Issues in Implementing Real World Quality Management System?

The issue that I had, was that the company was a small-mid sized family business. Did about $18-$20,000,000.00/year

And to get 'The Family' to buy into it. The president was all for it, but his brother (Vice President) and his nephews where the most difficult.

An example, for a lot of quality programs such as ASME, you had to have documentations on all the material for tracablitity. Well, the VP always looked for the cheapest material, and never followed the requirement or SOP. Such as needed 316L SS and he got Stainless that they think was 316SS....

Most I could back trace it, to get the documentation, but then I started rejecting the load of material, if it did not come with the documentation.

Well the nephews, they were there and was typical second generation from a successful business.

When the hammer dropped, then they started to follow it, but if the president would not have been in my corner, chances were very good that I would have been canned.

So I would say the biggest issues I experienced was having total and consistant buy-in of any quality program

Phoenix,

Yes that is what I understand so far, without the top level management commitment, it will not be a successful implementation.

the company culture from the top directly influence the whole company employee productivity and second is the culture (eg. western or eastern culture).
Having worked for a Hindu owned company in America for the last 8 years and seen it come to the brink of collapse many times i have a statement which is paraphrased from the Origin of the Species,( If a species does not adapt to a different environment then that species will perish).

Yes, could that be the reason that the system in use by Toyota like TPS, Kaizen, Kanban, Jidokan cannot be implemented in the Automotive industry in Detroit for example ?

"Cannot be implemented" or "wasn't implemented until much later when the Japanese companies had already made off with the market share"?

Mr. Slack,

Yes, I guess that is due to the top level management was ignoring the Japanese process improvement and becoming overly confident with their current product quality.

One issue you will face is getting a proper education in total quality management.

That cannot be attained through contact with a single anonymous forum, about whose member's qualifications you know nothing.

You will get no certificate of completion of anything here.

You'd be much better served by signing up for some accredited course work from an accredited TQM instruction facility.

Back on topic.

Quality can be an interesting and quite misunderstand subject.

I had taken some project management courses that dealt with quality. And its surprising how misunderstood quality programs are and how they are implemented as well as its effects.

I like to look at this as a discussion, like from the OP asked, what issues did one experience.

That knowledge can be a very valuable tool.

I understand that anecdotal information can help identify weaknesses in a complex program such as this, but it does not take the place of a firm understanding of the many facets of TQM.

That can only come from experience, based on an adequate understanding of the fundamentals, which one may not recieve from a forum.

Exactly lyn,

You reiterated my from my post #1 and #9, on the complexity, experience and training of trying implement Quality programs.

Now on the quality aspect, we covered TQM, ISO, Kaizen, Kanban, and a numerous others, just to be familiarized with the practices and the differences.

When mentioned earlier about have taken course on this, These were night classes, and when we discussed this, these discussions at times got quite confusing, especially late in class, (I think that it was mostly due to that most of us were putting in 8-12 hours at work prior to class.)

But implementing Quality programs can be quite a monumentist task. I recall at the shipyard, they work on TQM, Quality Circle and all that amounted to was going through the motions, because of the culture and buy-in (as in lack-off).

And if your going to (bussword alert) 'Champion' a quality program, you need someone in the organization that carry's the biggest stick in the organization on your side to get total 100% buy-in in the company.

As mentioned earlier, model a quality program to your company.

ok here is my drawing which shows the overall big picture about the ideal quality management / assurance that can be applied into the automotive industry.

Feel free to comment or criticize the diagram that I draw.

That can work in a presentation.

Details on the structure is what brings value. And every organization has its own structure to make it beneficial.

Yes, that does make sense, I wonder if that can be implemented in a real world scenario by combining those buzzwords ?

No, management are likely to see through it (especially at a major vehicle manufacturing company running an existing quality management system), even if you produce a better version in Power Point.

You mention you are a consultant, but have you had any actual formal training in quality management systems, as you will need that plus plenty of previous work experience if you want to work at a major company in such an important position?

Quality management is much more than just implementing and following some standards, its about understanding how the company in question works and how to make it better by taking bits and ideas from other quality system models to further improve a company's existing quality systems (which almost all existing company's already have), and in some cases making improvements or even new ones.

_{Jack - Where's LEAN in all this?}

You do, indeed, have A LOT to learn.

You need to take some serious classes and give up the doodles.

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The problem with "quality" is that many do not understand that it is not the "quality man in the company" problem but the problem of ALL persons in the company from top to bottom. Either is the commitment TOTAL or it does not work.

It is also quite difficult to define "quality" for many it is only less scrap but this is a narrow minded interpretation.

I had many opportunities in my consulting activity to notice how it is misunderstood and how amazed and surprised are many when they finally get the point.

Thank you for the reply Nick,

It appears to me that one of the common problem is the lack of commitment in the team which cause disruption in the whole chain of quality delivery.

Ironically, the part of the company with the least possible influence on quality is the department with the word Quality in its name.

The Most Common Issues in Implementing Real World Quality Management System?

There are many different quality management systems and they are NOT all the same!

Trying to implement a quality management system that is not compatible with your company is a good example of an issue.

For example - Trying to implement LEAN manufacturing (created and used by Toyota - the mass manufacturing car maker making many identical parts over and over) to an OEM company that is primarily a one-off jobbing shop (the opposite of Toyota).

What works for one company doesn't necessarily mean it will work for another. This needs to be clearly defined and explained to management to ensure you implement the right quality management system for your company, otherwise - disaster for the company (company suffers because wrong quality system used) and your career (you fail to make an unworkable system work and get fired).

_{Jack - Involved in quality control and systems}

Thanks for the response jack,

Now I understand more after reading some books and scouring this forum.

So in this case if the company is just an assembly plant sourcing the automotive parts, then the company should get ISO 9001 while the suppliers or OEM should get the ISO 16949 or both company should get ISO 16949 and ISO 9000 as well ?

Those ISO specifications aren't worth the powder to blow to hell. All your showing with them is there is a documented process. It may not be complete, but as long as an auditor gets paid for accepting or rejecting your application, the acredidation is a JOKE. If the applicant is lucky, they may have found a critical process and then document it well enough that the loss of the key person (via the proverbial Mack truck accident) that someone can read these instructions and continue production.

Quality requires people who care about what they do, passionate. That's getting real hard to find anywhere.

Yes, that does make sense after all, I guess the other benefits is for marketing so that the potential supplier or customer feel safe that the company they're dealing with is ISO certified and will always produce quality product and better service compare to those who doesn't have ISO certification.

One can get ISO certification for making condoms out of concrete. It doesn't mean anyone will buy them.

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"...ISO certified and will always produce quality product and better service..."

Absolutely not! ISO certification just means you have a process in place. As PWSlack says, your company can have a certified process to produce junk!

I found some where a good definition of quality: assuring quality is to fulfill user's or client's needs the best at the lowest possible cost.

It contains a lot in a few words: respect of client's specification which could be from only function as far as total cost of ownership and the economical aspect for the producing unit which has to be economically viable providing the product/service at the lowest possible cost thus being competitive on the market.

It contains as well the factor time of usage (moral obsolescence) and is indirectly related to the notion of value.