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Phys
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Brazilian Industrial Single Phase

08/27/2013 9:18 AM

Anyone familiar with wiring practices in Brazil? We have to build a panel for there using European drawings for a similar system designed for use in Europe on their 380V power systems. They designed the 230V single phase portion using Schneider 1 pole + N style breakers. (breaker for phase / switch for N). From reading the Brazilian code I can see this is allowable, as it is just a re-do of the IEC standards, but is it the standard practice there? It is allowable in the USA, but NEVER done here. (US electricians, don't question this - see NEC 240.22) I could wire the US way with a single pole breaker and a neutral terminal strip (this is DIN rail mounted - industrial instrumentation control panel) as it would certainly be legal, but the electricians there will have a standard way of doing this and expect to see the panel wired that way.

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North of 60
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#1

Re: Brazilian Industrial Single Phase

08/27/2013 9:22 AM

If there is more than one way to wire this, and if the different methods are code compliant to the standards used in the target market... I would, ask the customer how he wants it done.

Get it in writing...

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Phys
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#2
In reply to #1

Re: Brazilian Industrial Single Phase

08/27/2013 9:47 AM

Not that easy as there is an interfacing engineering consulting group that has more than once steered me wrong. They have their standards to adhere to and don't ask the end customer what he wants. I can't end run them as it is inappropriate.

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PWSlack
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#3
In reply to #2

Re: Brazilian Industrial Single Phase

08/27/2013 10:21 AM

Then follow the <...engineering consulting group...> standards. If it comes out wrong, it is that group's problem to fix, and a solid justification to claim for "extras" for re-work.

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North of 60
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#4
In reply to #3

Re: Brazilian Industrial Single Phase

08/27/2013 10:23 AM

Agreed...

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Phys
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#6
In reply to #1

Re: Brazilian Industrial Single Phase

08/27/2013 1:18 PM

I found out about 2 hours ago that we have the customer's electrical spec package in house. (why tell the elctrical designer this - he's good - he don't need no stinkin spec package)

Looking over it, it is decidedly based on the NEC, and references sections of the NEC and not IEC standards. (the phase colors are per US standards, not IEC - the minimum wire sizes are in AWG and per NEC tables) It doesn't specifically address my concern, but based on the strong US electrical influence on the specs, I am drawing in a neutral terminal strip and standard single pole breakers. They'll tell me during drawing approval if this is not correct, but I feel pretty sure they won't.

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PWSlack
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#7
In reply to #6

Re: Brazilian Industrial Single Phase

08/28/2013 3:49 AM

The good thing about drawings is that if there are any changes to be made prior to approval, they are simply marked on a print, and the drawing changed and up-revved for consideration again. It's far simpler doing this than tearing out the completed panel and re-doing it, especially if there are potentially several orbits of that particular planet.

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Phys
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#8
In reply to #7

Re: Brazilian Industrial Single Phase

08/28/2013 8:07 AM

Yeah - this whole thing was about changing the drawings - not the panel. I am one of those fussy engineers that doesn't like to submit wrong drawings. I HATE to get red marks on approval drawing sets. I want to be as close to correct as possible on revision 0. Can't stand Rev.1, 2, 3...

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#5

Re: Brazilian Industrial Single Phase

08/27/2013 11:11 AM

Maybe you could leave enough slack in the neutral wires so that if they want to, they can move them off the switches and onto a neutral bar. Yo, one size fits all....

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North of 60 (2); Phys (3); PWSlack (2); Tornado (1)

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