Previous in Forum: Sponges and Rate of Water Retention   Next in Forum: How to Purge a Natural Gas Pipeline?
Close
Close
Close
30 comments
Associate

Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 27

Flow Rate Question for Alcohol

08/30/2013 5:40 PM

Anyone know how to answer this:

[1] Flow rate of white wine, OG of 1.02, temperature of 45F, flowing through a 6 foot section of 3/8" ID plastic tubing (straight run) at 20psi. No spout - free flow. And more importantly, how important is the temperature here?

[2] Same situation but add 4 feet of head pressure.

Register to Reply
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.

Comments rated to be "almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, rate them!
Guru

Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 42330
Good Answers: 1666
#1

Re: Flow Rate Question for Alcohol

08/30/2013 5:52 PM

Pipe Flow Calculation

20 psi 42.6 feet of head.

This sounds like homework now.

Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Out of your mind! Not in sight!
Posts: 4424
Good Answers: 107
#2

Re: Flow Rate Question for Alcohol

08/30/2013 6:10 PM

if the home owrk would come in beer I would be inclined to answer.

And yes the temperture matters!

Free flow is the best and dont ask how my head is the next morning!

more beer!

. . . . blaa

__________________
Common Sense Dictates
Register to Reply
Guru
Engineering Fields - Electrical Engineering - Been there, done that. Engineering Fields - Control Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Long Island NY
Posts: 15288
Good Answers: 940
#3

Re: Flow Rate Question for Alcohol

08/30/2013 7:13 PM

Of course the whine matters. I have a different answer for my student's whine, than my boss's whine than my wife's whine.

Oh wait a minute, you asked how important is the temperature. Do you really think that wine at 45°F, 45°C, 45°R and 45K will act the same?

Oh, as far as the flow rate at 45°F, since the tubing run is a straight run at the exact same elevation (straight run) there will be NO flow regardless of this wine being a liquid or solid or even if the tubing has been properly primed. I recommend you review the fundamentals of a siphon.

__________________
"Don't disturb my circles." translation of Archimedes last words
Register to Reply
Associate

Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 27
#4
In reply to #3

Re: Flow Rate Question for Alcohol

08/30/2013 7:23 PM

Wine is driven from a pump at 20psi through a tube with the mentioned parameters. This has nothing to do with a siphon.

Register to Reply
Guru
Engineering Fields - Electrical Engineering - Been there, done that. Engineering Fields - Control Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Long Island NY
Posts: 15288
Good Answers: 940
#6
In reply to #4

Re: Flow Rate Question for Alcohol

08/30/2013 7:43 PM

Who says this has nothing to do with a siphon. Nothing I see in your information says otherwise. The nominal atmospheric pressure here on neighboring Long Island is 14.7 PSI. From your reply I now see that you did not intend a siphon to be relevant but I can guarantee you that if you think about how a siphon works you will see that it is not just relevant but the root of your answer. If you cannot figure out how to proceed from my selection of the inaccuracies of the useless information you provided to answer your homework then tough noogies. Use your own brain and think. If you demonstrate to us that you can think part way through this homework but cannot bring it home, then I'm certain that I or somebody else will help you to complete this problem.

From the CR4 FAQ presented when you started this thread.

  • Do your own homework. CR4 is not a homework cheat site. While some here might relish the opportunity to sharpen up old rusty skills by working the homework problem, consider the following and consider it well. If you cheat on your homework by using someone else's answers, you are only cheating yourself, because the purpose of any homework or other academic assignments is to help you learn - by practice, repetition, and self-discovery.
__________________
"Don't disturb my circles." translation of Archimedes last words
Register to Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Associate

Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 27
#14
In reply to #6

Re: Flow Rate Question for Alcohol

08/31/2013 11:56 AM

Just needed help with a formula. You probably would have been better off moving on to the next question no? You just wasted both our times. Please, no lectures. Just move on to the next post.

Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 986
Good Answers: 14
#19
In reply to #14

Re: Flow Rate Question for Alcohol

08/31/2013 7:54 PM

Obviously you are new here. We never move on as long as there is another view point left untouched...

If you are pumping uphill in a wine fountain little difference will be seen as that pump can probably pump wine uphill about a hundred feet in a 3/8" line.

Register to Reply
Associate

Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 27
#5

Re: Flow Rate Question for Alcohol

08/30/2013 7:31 PM

This is running through a 12V 3.5GPM 20psi rated pump. I was conerned more with the flow rate drops based on increased head pressure.

Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 42330
Good Answers: 1666
#7
In reply to #5

Re: Flow Rate Question for Alcohol

08/30/2013 8:14 PM

This is getting tedious.

Look at the pump curve for the pump, whose identity you have failed to disclose.

<unsubscribes>

Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 7025
Good Answers: 206
#8

Re: Flow Rate Question for Alcohol

08/30/2013 8:15 PM

quite tempting but, ill let others pick this one apart. 4 feet of head? will it be lifted 4 feet too? get a check valve in that line or it will run back and cause short cycling of the pump.

Register to Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Guru
Engineering Fields - Electrical Engineering - Been there, done that. Engineering Fields - Control Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Long Island NY
Posts: 15288
Good Answers: 940
#9
In reply to #8

Re: Flow Rate Question for Alcohol

08/30/2013 8:23 PM

I'm done picking this one apart. I dislike people that mark my comments as OT because they're told to obey the stated rules of the forum.

<unsubscribe>

__________________
"Don't disturb my circles." translation of Archimedes last words
Register to Reply
Guru
Technical Fields - Technical Writing - New Member Engineering Fields - Piping Design Engineering - New Member

Join Date: May 2009
Location: Richland, WA, USA
Posts: 21012
Good Answers: 783
#10

Re: Flow Rate Question for Alcohol

08/30/2013 9:19 PM

Bucket and stopwatch.

__________________
In vino veritas; in cervisia carmen; in aqua E. coli.
Register to Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Anonymous Poster #1
#11

Re: Flow Rate Question for Alcohol

08/31/2013 12:27 AM

In whose mouth does the tube terminate? Results may vary.

Register to Reply
Guru
Technical Fields - Technical Writing - New Member Engineering Fields - Piping Design Engineering - New Member

Join Date: May 2009
Location: Richland, WA, USA
Posts: 21012
Good Answers: 783
#12
In reply to #11

Re: Flow Rate Question for Alcohol

08/31/2013 12:29 AM

Next time some student needs a research project....

__________________
In vino veritas; in cervisia carmen; in aqua E. coli.
Register to Reply
Guru
United Kingdom - Member - Indeterminate Engineering Fields - Control Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: In the bothy, 7 chains down the line from Dodman's Lane level crossing, in the nation formerly known as Great Britain. Kettle's on.
Posts: 30583
Good Answers: 822
#13

Re: Flow Rate Question for Alcohol

08/31/2013 9:57 AM

May the goldey-flaves mellow in the throcus.

__________________
"Did you get my e-mail?" - "The biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place" - George Bernard Shaw, 1856
Register to Reply
Guru
Engineering Fields - Electrical Engineering - Been there, done that. Engineering Fields - Control Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Long Island NY
Posts: 15288
Good Answers: 940
#15

Re: Flow Rate Question for Alcohol

08/31/2013 12:18 PM

I normally do not not return to a thread I leave but this news report on a theft of vodka just reminded me of this thread. This makes me wonder why the OP needs to predict the flow rate of wine with a pump. Particularly somebody that obviously knows nothing about fluid mechanics or pump dynamics.

__________________
"Don't disturb my circles." translation of Archimedes last words
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 42330
Good Answers: 1666
#16
In reply to #15

Re: Flow Rate Question for Alcohol

08/31/2013 12:52 PM

I just came back around out of boredom.

I think the OP is legitimate and just curious about how his pump will work.

OP, look here on page 12: beverage pumps - Xylem Flow Control to view a typical pump curve.

For every foot of elevation you will lose the equivalent of 2.31 PSI.

Don't worry, be happy!

Register to Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Associate

Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 27
#17
In reply to #16

Re: Flow Rate Question for Alcohol

08/31/2013 4:15 PM

Thanks. I was really trying to figure out how much effect temperature and specific gravity had on the overall dynamics as well. If this seemed like an obnoxious post, the previous responders should have just "passed" and moved on. Some of the responses were just so odd and off base. Thanks again.

Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 42330
Good Answers: 1666
#18
In reply to #17

Re: Flow Rate Question for Alcohol

08/31/2013 7:15 PM

Temperature lowers viscosity, SG increases the work required to move the fluid.

Water - Temperature and Specific Gravity - Engineering ToolBox

Register to Reply
Active Contributor

Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Mesa, Arizona
Posts: 17
Good Answers: 2
#21
In reply to #17

Re: Flow Rate Question for Alcohol

09/01/2013 12:38 AM

Welcome to CR4!

Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 986
Good Answers: 14
#20

Re: Flow Rate Question for Alcohol

08/31/2013 8:19 PM

there will only be 8.5 fluid oz of wine in the 4' section of tubing creating the head which will weigh about 2 ounces so negligable flow loss.

Register to Reply Score 2 for Off Topic
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Sebastopol, California
Posts: 1091
Good Answers: 48
#22

Re: Flow Rate Question for Alcohol

09/01/2013 10:19 AM

This is homework, this is a trick question. IT IS WINE! Of course the temperature matters! Not to the flow rate, but to the destination container system. If it is not kept below 55F it will have to go to the vinegar making supply tank instead of the barrel room tank.

__________________
Most people are mostly good most of the time.
Register to Reply
Power-User

Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 145
Good Answers: 5
#23

Re: Flow Rate Question for Alcohol

09/01/2013 6:04 PM

Seems like the % of alcohol may impact performance as well due to lower vapor pressure but I could be wrong because I'm a newbie with pumps.

Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Sebastopol, California
Posts: 1091
Good Answers: 48
#24

Re: Flow Rate Question for Alcohol

09/01/2013 9:28 PM

If performance is the issue, then get a bigger pipe. This is wine, and temperature and cleanliness is the most important issue. I think this is a trick question. I work for wineries here in Sonoma county and temperature is the most important process consideration after cleanliness. Most tanks are in temperature controlled warehouses already, but when the doors are open it can get hot in there.

Four feet of head means a tank that is four feet taller or four feet higher than the receiver tank, and so this must be a racking question. No pumps are used for racking because you do not want to suck the sediment from the bottom of the source tank, so a free flow gravity system is often used. Flow rate effects only how long you have to stand there and watch it move from the source to the second ferment tank or the barrel source tank.

Again, what is important in this process is the cleanliness of the piping and the temperature. The pipe or hose should be insulated or insulating or just cold. You are moving wine from one tank to another.After the wine is moved from one tank to another, it will stay there for months. Speed is NOT an issue here!

__________________
Most people are mostly good most of the time.
Register to Reply
Associate

Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 27
#27
In reply to #24

Re: Flow Rate Question for Alcohol

09/03/2013 12:11 PM

Thanks. Great points. But the larger the pipe, the more wine must sit stale while the unit is not dispensing. 3/8" is the absolute largest ID we can go.

Register to Reply
Guru
Technical Fields - Technical Writing - New Member Engineering Fields - Piping Design Engineering - New Member

Join Date: May 2009
Location: Richland, WA, USA
Posts: 21012
Good Answers: 783
#25

Re: Flow Rate Question for Alcohol

09/01/2013 10:00 PM

Where is the 20 psi measured? When adding the head pressure, which end of the hose? But even with answers to these, calculation is likely to be imprecise.

__________________
In vino veritas; in cervisia carmen; in aqua E. coli.
Register to Reply
Guru
Safety - Hazmat - New Member United States - US - Statue of Liberty - New Member Engineering Fields - Chemical Engineering - Old Hand

Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Lubbock, Texas
Posts: 14331
Good Answers: 161
#26

Re: Flow Rate Question for Alcohol

09/02/2013 9:39 AM

Stop whining, and install a cheap signet paddle wheel flow meter to measure in the range of 0.5 l/m to 40 L/m (you can do the conversion to fifths of a gallon can you not?), and then you will know well enough for your process. Otherwise do your homework, and once again stop whining.

__________________
If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Just build a better one.
Register to Reply
Associate

Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 27
#28
In reply to #26

Re: Flow Rate Question for Alcohol

09/03/2013 12:16 PM

By any chance you have a good source? All I see are units in the hundreds of dollars. Thanks though.

Register to Reply
Guru
Safety - Hazmat - New Member United States - US - Statue of Liberty - New Member Engineering Fields - Chemical Engineering - Old Hand

Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Lubbock, Texas
Posts: 14331
Good Answers: 161
#29
In reply to #28

Re: Flow Rate Question for Alcohol

09/03/2013 5:01 PM

The above is a picture of a flow meter up to a few gpm available from Cole-Parmer. This is not intended to be an advertisement. I have seen a few of these around on different applications, and I did not recall seeing the word "sanitary anywhere.

OR find a GFsignet distributor in your region. The ones I am used to are in Texas. Look on the GFSignet website and find the right flow meter for your size of tubing, and for sanitary service (at least I think you should want that).

__________________
If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Just build a better one.
Register to Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Associate

Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 27
#30
In reply to #29

Re: Flow Rate Question for Alcohol

09/04/2013 2:29 PM

That's exactly what I would need. I'm actually trying to measure small qtys though. Although my issue is speed, I'm inevitably looking to measure between 2-6oz. But this is great thank you so much.

Register to Reply
Register to Reply 30 comments
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.

Comments rated to be "almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, rate them!
Copy to Clipboard

Users who posted comments:

129CBRider (2); Anonymous Poster (1); Deefburger (2); Drew85205 (1); Fredski (1); garyrich2000 (1); Greenwich CT (7); IdeaSmith (1); James Stewart (2); lyn (4); PWSlack (1); redfred (4); Tornado (3)

Previous in Forum: Sponges and Rate of Water Retention   Next in Forum: How to Purge a Natural Gas Pipeline?

Advertisement