Does This Really Electrocute People?

If you live in a house with no GFCI's, and are holding it in your hand when it gets wet, it may shock you, fatally I suppose.

I don't know if 120V at some considerable amperage would make you seize and kill you, and I don't intend to find out.

That is exactly how Claude Francois dies in France. He tried to change a bulb that was hanging over the bathtub he didn't make it and the bulb didn't get in place either.

Salt water is a good conductor: when my sailboat sunk in the shipyard's dock the 1000 Ah batteries lost the lead terminal in no time. Completely dissolved.

On the other hand, sweet water, mainly rain water was used in the tank we used to test amphibious army tanks. They had to be submerged to a certain degree and the 24 Volts batteries survived the water for quite a while. The specs were 45 minutes.

The 2 scenarios however were typical DC applications,

Once you are in a tub full of water and the appliance doesn't fall on your body, before it makes contact with the water (the hot parts), I think you are pretty safe.

But it might scare you. When the fuses don't break and there is no GFCI, you'll produce some local hot water, vapor and steam to begin with.

You will hear some hissing sound like a steak in a butter pan at high temperature.

Can you make a video recording of it? Perhaps I forgot some detail?

I think James Bond initiated this UL in Goldfinger (1964).

No it goes through the body as well....I once had a call from a lady who insisted she was getting shocked in the shower....Well I went over with multitester in hand and checked with the leads from the water to the shower handle....it was reading about 60 volts...well I stuck my hand in the water just to be sure, and it was just enough to feel a little prickly, but not enough to really get a good shock, which I have experienced on some occasion before....It took a while but she had had some electrical work done recently so I had a clue as to where to start looking, as it wasn't happening before the work was done....Well somebody had mixed up the wires and had a neutral wire to a live wire and a live wire to a neutral connection....evidently the neutral was grounded to the plumbing........anyway I straightened the whole thing out....Another thing was years ago the pool lights in the pools down here were all 120v ac and there was problems with people getting shocked....since then they have been converted to 24v dc.....

Even 24 VDC power in a salt water environment you can feel. I've been shocked with voltages up to 600 VAC over the years, it's just a way of life if you are an industrial electrician. I try to be much more careful now at my age, but as careful as you can be, your gonna get zapped. I set up the complete electric infrastructure of a no discharge salt water fish farm from 2008-2010. Running a 20% salt solution in the waters you can feel 24 VDC running through your hands if they and you feet are wet. In a fish farm, your feet are always wet and the moisture content is always 100%

I now work with electric propulsion systems for boats and working with DC voltages up to 144 VDC now. No salt water and these batteries can still bite you in the ass big time.

I still get tagged once in a while.

Years ago I lived in an apartment where the upstairs was empty. The land lord changed the heating system to a hydronic baseboard which required re-plumbing the entire house. Upstairs there was a blanket on the floor, when the plumber grabbed it, he got a shock. He came down stairs and said there are problems upstairs. After a discussion we went back up with a meter and I measured 122 VAC from the blanket to the neutral in the middle of the floor. We called the landlord to come look. Killed the power to the apt removed the blanket. NO idea what happened after that. We moved few days later. This was in 1977 just after the Lynyrd Skynyrd plane crash.

I've been zapped many times, but the worst I can remember was checking an A/C unit on a roof top....there had been a several rainstorms lately and the roof was flooded with about 6 inches of water, the A/C unit, a package, was sitting right in the middle...as I waded up to it I placed my hand on the unit, and got a tremendous shock, it was numbing...I forget what the problem was, but obviously a short to ground........Yes DC can get you good, at high voltages especially....If you've ever been hit with a zap from a spark plug, you know what I mean....or a neon sign...Generally speaking if the shock is just a short contact, it's most likely survivable...I think it's the prolonged contact short that gets you.....or extremely high current, like a lightning strike or high tension wires....now I've worked on high voltage equipment many times, but I have always used an increased measure of caution....utilizing a slow methodical approach and several layers of protection.... having been bit by the smaller dog, the bigger dog commands respect....lol

Getting hit by the TV Cascade voltage Multiplier while repairing it is also a nice feeling

If you're working on electric lines in an old ihouse, be aware that a lot of the switches were installed on the neutral leg. I had a situation in a bathroom where there was 60 volts running through the BRASS switchplate located 3' from the bathtub. You could feel a 60 cycle vibration when you ran your fingers across the plate. Turns out that the current was traveling through the ceiling light fixture and grounding that way. Hate to think of the danger that lived in that circuit until I straightened it out - not to mention how much money that wasted.

You're nuts for two reasons.

First, while distilled water is a very good insulator, bath water is far from distilled water. The conductivity of tap water and especially dirty bath water is close enough for this discussion to the conductivity of human flesh. So while water will be a poor method to transfer power to a load it does carry current to a human being very well.

Second, the shortest (highest conductance) conduction path in a circuit is where most of the power goes but power does get transmitted to all conductance paths. This is why my laptop still gets power even though my refrigerator compressor just turned ON. So the high conductance path of the appliance, wire to water to wire, or wire to water to plumbing do not prevent current from flowing from wire to water to skin to blood to heart to blood to skin to water to wire.

Do not try this at home!

It is funny, but you and I seem to look at the same facts and draw different conclusions. I know that there are impurities in the water and that that makes it a good conductor. I realize that the current will distribute through the different pathways in inverse proportion to their resistance, this proportioning should reduce the amount experienced by the body. The closest paths are the neutral and ground wires in the appliance, the balance will travel through the water and some through the water and body. I still question whether there is enough to give a kill shot.

I've had 120 and 240 volt shocks and just had tiny burns at the contact point and I am still around.

There is a significant difference in the resistance of dry vs. wet skin. Getting a shock from a circuit when touching it dry may give you a "bite" and even leave a mark where the current "punctures" the dry skin layer. But once your skin is soaking wet over a larger area, you are more like a jellyfish than anything and present a much larger conductor.

Remember too that it only takes milliamps flowing through your heart to send it into fibrillation. Anything that increases that current makes it more lethal.

the current flows down the drain????????????

The drain pipe is a ground, or is it not a ground these days? If not, there is no connection and no current flow except into the neutral and ground wires of the appliance, and nobody gets killed in that case.

I begin to wish I hadn't started this, I begin to lose respect for members for whom, I presently have great respect

Their sensors were in the heart to detect a kill but you might get a pretty bad shock in your lower body section between the electrical apparatus and the grounded drain and or faucets (with copper plumbing).

You might not die but I doubt that the experience would be enjoyable...

does this look grounded to you?

Nice picture. First time I see it in black. (the pipe)

Looks like there was something leaking? but not grounded enough to me.

Although in Babylon (Mesopothamia) 1894 BC (re: the old testament), 2526 B Islam and 3844 BMe they used Lead Drainage pipe. Those days people could pay for it.

I still find lead in some older buildings and it is incredible for what a amount of money on led is used there, Pipe are often 3/8" to 1/2 thick. Sometimes they are used as ground as well.

However, those days electrical power? But then 33 AD tongues that gave light? Does anybody has a circuit?

the pipe is ABS, extremely common in the USA now as a drainline. its a plastic NON-conductor, and no it is not electrically grounded, duh

Water is a poor conductor, but it is a conductor....the inside of the pipe is usually wet during use, that's enough to generate a current flow...and you can bet that sooner or later somewhere down that drainpipe,, it's grounded.....You are probably right that if you don't happen to be holding the appliance, but it's just in the water with you, that a fatal shock may not occur, but I wouldn't bet my life on it, sometimes things happen......

Not if its plastic!

That was the point I made, if it is not a ground, no current will flow.

That's a big if, given the number of possible ground paths.

Wait one darn cotton picking minute. Your original question states that current goes to the drain. I quote you:

It seems to me that, unless the bather actually makes more than an instantaneous contact with the electrical hot side, the current will flow through water, into the bath to the drain, or directly to the drain.

Now you're going to say that your point relies on the drain not being grounded. Why don't you now add the unstated qualifier that the mandatory GFCI breaker to your new collection of conditions and claim that a hairdryer in the bathtub is perfectly safe. It is not perfectly safe. It is vastly safer than it use to be but an electrocution can and have happened.

You are absolutely correct.

In subsequent responses, some people introduced plastic pipe into the discussion. In #28, I was replying to such a comment, not changing the original question. without a grounded drain, my original question has no meaning.

It can develop a static charge and release this into your body. Happened all the time at the fish farm. I started grounding the pipes with tinsel draped (this was a very fine mass of very thin wires that draped over the 10" and 12" PVC pipe) over a wire, PVC pipe and tied to building ground. It eliminated the static charge.

here's a quote from "electrical shock for Dummies,

How much is too much?

Most resistance in your body is in your skin. If your skin is wet or damp, that resistance is lowered. If you handle an electrical device with damp hands, even voltages under 20V or so (not enough to even light a low-wattage lamp) might be sufficient to do you serious damage. The 120V coming out of your electrical outlet has a lot of punch: more than enough to kill you.<<<<<<<<

There has been more then a few folks that have been badly hurt and killed with 110 Volt power in the USA. Several in bath tubs and also from around wet areas such as swimming pools and vending machines. That's why we now have GFI's that are by law suppose to be installed in and around these areas. Someone just did not think up this for no good reason. Oh! may be we can sell these, is not how it works.

Fixitorelse

passingtononthegreen-

Perhaps the following post from 4 days ago can assist you in determining the relativity of 12 volts to those of a 120v lawn fixture.

Good Luck, Old Salt

Sweat soaked skin and twelve volts will produce a shock as I learned in the early '70's working at local VW shop. I later worked with 24 volts at local Caterpillar shop and avoided this 'sweat scenario' after seeing what four 8D batteries in 24 volt configuration (series-parallel) could do to small wrench accidently connected from hot to ground.

I fully agree with you. I have on occasion been in a sweat covered shirt, leaning accross the metal fender, or radiaror support, and rested an arm accross a battery post, or an alternator terminal, and definately felt the shock.

The US navy ran tests during WWll and found that it takes at least 47 volts to kill you but only in certain conditions.

jmart23-

That was 70 years ago. Has any research on the subject been done since that time to either reconfirm it, modify or refuted that information?

Also under what conditions was that study done? Dry skin vs. wet skin; wet with salty sweat vs. distilled water; contact area with skin big vs. small; across what body parts. across two fingers on the same hand or from one hand to the other; voltage type, ac vs. dc; available current; etc.

Good Luck, Old Salt

actually...a zillion years ago in college my electrical professor went in detail about this topic. as pointed out already, voltage does't kill you, amperage does, voltage is just a measure of how strong a "push" is moving the amperage. so millivolts can stop your pump if the force behind them is big enough. and the typical human body has enough resistance to hold back around 80 volts, of course there are many variables to this number but the point is a wall socket in many cases has enough potential force to drop you for good

I appreciate what you are saying. I too had this sort of thing on a HS, college and grad school discussion and/or test question. Due to these, the experience of others (good and bad) and my own experiences I give electricity as great a physical distance as I can and still do my vocation/avocation. The incident cited in the first post, as noted was me, 12 volts and a shock, resistance was low. I=E/R therefore it didn't take much to get a good current flowing. Another individual was skeptic about the results so he tried to reproduce it with a smaller piece of metal in the salt water. He didn't get much until he ran up a good sweat. Don't know what the actual figure was but he stated he got a good flow through a milliamp meter.

I have been exposed to several shocks, most not my planning or due to me, during my life. If I recall correctly from a static generator ball to more line voltages than I care to remember to discharging a 350 volt capacitor through my body and lastly the 12 volt incident. What is clear is that I=E/R. The more voltage there is the less effect the resistance has on the current flow.

Many medical researchers in the area of Cardiology state that the average resistance of a human body is approx. 50 ohms up to about a current of 15 amps. An Implantable Cardiac Defibrillator (IED) uses a voltage of 750 volts for approx. 1/1,000th of a second to 20/1,000th of a second at a level of 150-200 joules. If used correctly this can stop the heart so that it has a chance of starting up again. If used incorrectly this can stop the heart and it might not restart i.e. kill.

In summary, yes it's the amps that kill but it is the voltage that makes the amps possible. Stay away from dangerous levels of voltage and the life threatening amps will not be possible.

As a note, I have an ICD implanted due to a heart attack. The first thing that you are told is to avoid electrical shocks. Also, much to my displeasure, no more arc welding. Next you are told no electrical or ultrasonic physical therapy. All the more reason to keep away from voltage and current. On one occasion I had the unfortunate, or fortunate, experience of the ICD activating twice. Never in your life can you ever imagine the effect of that shock on your body. It is magnitudes greater than any shock I have ever experienced in my life. The shock is great enough to have the heart restart (the way an ICD works is to stop the heart so the heart can restart on its own) or great enough to permanently stop the heart.

In its simplicity, electricity kills.

Thank you for your comment.

Good Luck, Old Salt

Yes... but... do not lose the forrest for the trees. Voltage and amperage are part of a ballanced equation. One allows for the other and when a resistance is added, one is the result of the other.

Chicken and the egg...

North of 60-

Yes I agree, voltage and amperage are part of a balanced equation.

When the voltage goes up the current also goes up for a fixed resistance value.

Example: Take a 0-100v DC or AC power supply with a volt meter and an ammeter on it or hand units installed in the output wires. Put a 10 ohm resistor between the output terminals. Next turn it on, set for an output of 10 volts. I=E/R so 10v/10 ohms = 1 amp output current. Raise the output voltage to 50 volts. I = E/R so 50v/10 ohms =5 amps current. Check the ammeter on each one to verify the current. Also use a resistor rated at least a 250 watt resistor or the experiment could soon change to no current.

As the voltage goes up the current also goes up for a fixed resistance value. On a second to second basis the resistance change in an individual human is very minimal.

High voltages tend to kill (due to their higher currents).

Good Luck, Old Salt

Well those tazers kill people too, and they are supposed to be low amperages.

Epke-

Yes, tazers can kill people. So can water or ice cream. The most frequent cause of tazer fatalities is either improper use, improper aiming or most often a medical condition of the victim that makes them extremely sensitive to the effects of a tazer. Combined with the fact that the tazer is supposed to be aimed, launched and placed in the abdomen region and could mistakenly be placed on the chest area in close proximity to the heart, yes it might be but seldom is fatal. To reduce this possibility, the personnel that legally have tazers are trained extensively on the proper use and what should be done in case of medical complications.

The area that the "electrodes" of a tazer encompass is very small compared to the area that an electrical shock will usually effect. There is a much less effect on the heart by exposure to a few square inches not near the heart than a current traversing from one arm, across the chest which contains the heart and then across to and through either a leg or the other arm.

Although I do not have statistics handy, I am confident that the deaths due to electrical shocks other than tazers are a much higher per cent than those from tazers.

There are many other things that can perceivably cause death other than tazers: water; liquor; sunlight; kissing; soda (pop); an angry spouse; aspirin; ibuprofen; a cold; blowing bubbles into a glass of liquid; tooth paste; a shower; lying in bed; brushing teeth; jumping up and down; looking over a cliff; jumping rope to name a few. All of them are possibilities but extremely infrequent.

Most often a tazer is localized, an electrical shock is dispersed across several vital organs including the heart.

Good Luck, Old Salt

My point is, that high voltage with low amperage can cause the hart arrhythmia which can cause dead.

Trained properly? there have been a few instances that these properly trained personnel overused the tazers that caused the dead of people.

The reason people do not get killed by tazers is... skin effect, the high voltage is conducted on the outside of the body pretty much. Hence no current flow across the important areas.

Jmart...

it was actually one individual in the navy that proved you could kill yourself with a typical multimeter (powered by a 9v), testing your body resistance....he just pierced the skin on either thumb with the pointed leads.

Having served in the Navy for 26+ years...I never heard that one...sounds extremely fishy to me...

Especially when one considers that 9V Flukes and the like (Model 77--SCAT 4245) are fairly new to the scene.

The Simpson 260 (US Navy standard meter for ~20 years) only used 4 AA's (up to 10,400 mAh) or the C-cell (up to 8000 mAh) in circuit for resistance readings. That roughly equates to .17A @ 6.5VDC, and .13A @1.5VDC, respectively.

For comparison, the 9VDC battery used in the modern Fluke type 77 (and other similar meters) pumps out a staggering .01A @ the aforementioned 9VDC.

However...the internal resistance of the battery will not allow that level of current to pass through the body, regardless of how deep you push those probes. Combined with the incredibly anemic 1.5, 6, or 9 VDC of the typical battery...there just isn't enough oomph (power) to get you.

Grab a hold of a car battery (120 amp-hours) and you are looking more lively at 2A @ ~12 VDC (closer to 14 VDC). But, still, 12 VDC and the internal resistance of the automotive battery combined with the body's internal resistance is not enough to cause fibrillation of the heart.

Fibrillation of the heart will not occur at these DC voltage and current levels except in the weakest of systems.

If it could occur, by any stretch of the imagination, there would be warnings on every battery in America...regardless of the irrefutable physics.

Awwww.... CubaPete!

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I look forward to reading your logical, witty comments in this and other blogs (ran across some in Discus the other day)....

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...Yet this comment of yours is disappointing. I understand and admire healthy skepticism, but the certainly with which you assert that this even could not have happened, goes beyond healthy skepticism.

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You spent 26 years in the Navy..and because your didn't see/hear of this even...it couldn't have happened?

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'...However...the internal resistance of the battery will not allow that level of current to pass through the body, regardless of...'

'...there just isn't enough oomph (power) to get you....'

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You are kind of dishonoring your 26 year service to your country, when you go out on a limb and say something is impossible because you've never heard of it....especially when a 5 second Google search would get to the heart of the matter. (I too have spent years in the Navy... not 26, but enough to know that there is plenty that I don't know...and always will be)

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Darwin Awards....

Gee, that doesn't sound condescending at all!

That's not even worth much of a rebuttal, since the Darwin award is hardly the benchmark of intelligent or bedrock knowledge on the internet, but...

Try a little of this...

Mixed with a little of this...

...and shake/stir as needed.

It's not just because I haven't heard of it, it's because that factual math thingy doesn't support it..but don't let facts get in the way. Unless this un-named individual in this un-verified account was a freak of nature a 9V battery could never do this. If he/she was a freak of nature, then congratulations...they proved it.

Oh, by the way...I am a French Supermodel

Do you know how that's true? Because it's now on the Internet.

It wasn't intended to be condescending.

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Darwin awards are generally reasonably well researched, though I think there have been a couple corrections.

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I like your graphics.

The first reference shows conductivity of macroscopic skeletal muscle to be as high as 0.7 S/m which equates to a little over 1.4 ohms per meter. Macroscopic nerve tissue measured as high as 0.57 S/m which equates to a little over 1.75 ohm/ meter.

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Lets call it two meters from thumb puncture to thumb puncture.

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Since you have the pretty graphics, I'll leave the math to you... How low can the voltage be to achieve 50 milliamps when the resistance is less than 4 ohms?

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The resistance of dry skin can be up to 100k ohms.... and current usually has to pass through it twice. But when you puncture the skin, or otherwise relieve the current of this obstacle (think of the minks farmed for fur), it doesn't take much to incur deadly results.

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Now, please demonstrate you have the sense I suspect you possess, by reevaluating the hard line you have taken in proclaiming the absolute impossibility of this event.

One last comment (on this inane topic), then I will move on...

If current is the only factor to consider what kills...try a laptop battery. Those little devices have more killing power under your scenario than most anything out there.

What I believe you have failed to realize is that unless there is a large amount of DC voltage which actually cooks the muscle tissue of the heart it just isn't going to happen. It would have to be the initial surge of the (high) DC voltage run through an inductor (providing impedance...not zero phase angle resistance), creating a cyclical yet quickly diminishing wave which then disturbs the heart rhythm.

If AA, AAA, 9V, D-cells, C-cells, J-cells, whatever...held enough potential to kill a human being (regardless of their heart health) the Consumer Product Safety Commission would have warnings on every package. They don't because there is not threat.

McDonald's coffee and Kinder Eggs are more dangerous that!

_{^{Sorry, one unverifiable case on the interwebs just doesn't make it so.}}

Death rarely occurs in electrocution from the heart being cooked. Get that idiotic notion out of your head. The rhythm of the coordinated contractions that allows blood to flow through the four valves of the heart get zapped out of proper sequence. The heart goes into a spasmodic rippling known as ventricular fibrillation. Blood stops flowing through the body. This is what kills.

Now the timing of the zap with the heart's rhythm, the frequency, voltage, current, pathway and even the waveform of the shock that crosses the heart effects the likely hood of ventricular fibrillation occurring.

Redfred is exactly right....

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The current sufficient to induce fibrillation in the heart can be far below the amount necessary to cook the muscle tissue. This exact thing was thoroughly explained by several experts for the supreme court case I previously linked (but you apparently already knew too much to read or learn from).

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We aren't even talking about immediately stopping the heart.... just getting the rhythm messed up so that pumping is ineffective. It doesn't take long for things to go quickly down hill... and many times, once it is fibrillating, it has to be stopped to allow it to restart normally.

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Anyway, there is some interesting info in the links I provided.

Not!

What an articulate rebuttal.

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In the words of the great Samuel L Jackson,

'Well, allow me to retort'.

The current will flow from the hot side at point of contact and spread out through multiple parallel paths including the body to converge at the drain (assuming the drain is earthed). The current will also flow locally to the neutral and earth, and in a similar way through all parallel paths in the water, and passing through the body if it is in the way, of which the proportion of current through the heart will decide if you are dead or not.

If you are not dead, then you probably will be when you pick the appliance up to throw it out of the bath, or when you create a circuit through your body when you step out of the bath, especially if you grab hold of grounded metalwork to help stand up, or step on a wet grounded floor.

Would you break the bath tube before you try this?

No bites...

short memories

Poachers in rural area, connect 220 V AC electrical overhead lines to the water of pond to hunt the fish. Fish inside the pond water are killed by electrocution.

<...annoyed....>?

That's shocking!

Whether it's plastic pipe or not in some places it's regulations the tub be grounded. This is to prevent and possibility of current traveling back up though the drain water.

Each individuals chemical make up differs. So that the least resistance to current follow could be through the body instead of the water.

Can you quote which regulations please? I have heard this from electricians in the past when they have bonded plastic pipes "the regs only say the pipes have to be bonded, it doesn't matter if they are plastic or not!". Actually it does matter, the word metallic is used in the regulation. In order for current to travel back up the drain water there needs to be a significant potential difference. I've done standard 500V DC insulation tests on pipes full of water, sticking the probes into each end of a metre length (water is not clean but not with vinegar added either) and the insulation test passes.

For starting this thread and the attention it has atracred, the question of your sanity is valid : )

As for being annoyed (by Hollywood I assume?) Welcome to the club. As soon as you begin learning just a bit about physics, science and such you quickly realize that so much of movies and tv is theatrics.

I have thought along similar lines and the answer to your question depends upon many variables. Keep in mind, most of the electric circuit will follow the path of least resistance. If your person is in parallel with the path to ground, current = voltage over total resistance. The wikipedia article said human body resistance varies from 100,000 to 1000 and lowers to 500 for damaged skin. If I use .05Ω for tap water and 500Ω for the human body, in parallel I get a total current of about 2400 amps but through the greater resistor it is .24 amp (if I increase resistance to 1000 I get the same overall amps but the greater resistor only gets .12 amp)

When I was younger, I worked as a plumber on new construction job sites installing all the household plumbing. Many of the bath-tubs we installed were fiberglass and our water lines were mostly pvc and cpvc leaving no way for the water in the tub to be grounded (especially if the tub is plugged). In this case, I don't see how the person in the tub could be the path of least resistance.

If it were a cast iron tub in an old house with copper waste lines (like I have seen once) then most of the current would pass through the water and the person might feel a mild shock in their submerged body parts...but probably not because they would have to be in the path of the current. They would have to be touching part of the tub with cracks or holidays in the ceramic (an ok resistor) or be touching the metal drain.

As for what someone (sry, forgot who) about being shocked in the shower, that is a different case alltogether. Often in the shower you have streaming water hitting your head or shoulders and you are standing in puddled water. There are many rivulets of water creating a low resistance path to the puddle at the bottom but the person is most likely a part of the circuit and will conduct some of the current. This has been extensively studied as part of a negligent homicide of some soldiers in Iraq. The root cause of at least one of those deaths was that the wiring going to the heater or pump located on top of the shower facility had been insulated with animal fur/hair and had short circuited.

Drew K

Yet more reading...

Another Article...

Never assume anything: an assumption makes an ass (of) u (and) me.

Having said that, didn't your parents teach you not to "play" with electricity?

I would not count on drain pipe being grounded, as at least a part of it could be PVC plastic. Do not trust, and do verify.

And I get really annoyed when someone throws anything, including the cat, into my bath water.

My next question is going to be:

Can a male be electrocuted if he urinates on the third rail?

If I remember correctly from my training to go into the SEPTA tunnels, the third rail is at a potential of 600 volts DC.

Depends on if the drunken fool can make a truly continuous flow stream and how liquids pool around your knees. Give it..... Never mind, on second thought you might be dumb enough to actually try.

passingtongreen-

Yes, at least for dogs that I know of. I have heard on a reputable New York news radio (WCBS-AM) and read of at least two instances where male dogs were urinating onto electrical sources and were electrocuted by the shock. On one, the object of the dog was the terminal box of a street lamp just above ground level. He was standing on a moist cement sidewalk and got zapped from the electricity flow from the wire connection, up the flow of urine which contains numerous salts and electrolytes, through his body and down the legs.

Just Googled "urinating dog electrocuted" and they have several news articles on the subject, both dogs and humans:

http://www.nj.com/hobokennow/index.ssf/2011/03/hoboken_repairs_light_poles_af.html

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/family-dog-killed-after-being-1008705

And finally one from a man and a third rail

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2358398/Matthew-Zeno-Man-dies-electrocution-urinating-subways-rail.html

In summary, Yes! Make sure that tree is not electrically charged or you may experience some shocking relief!

Good Luck, Old Salt

Weekends in Hoboken and NYC (especially Greenwich Village) those poles really get a bath - and not only by dogs. It got so bad that at one time, one of PATH;s power maintainerswas trying to rig up a HV low amp source to the roll up doors to one of the sub-stations. His boss laughed and told him no to do it. Go in on a Monday AM and the puddle was 8' to 10' into the bldg. Yucch!

I actually watched a stray dog pee on the 3rd rail one time. This was on Staten Island (NYC). All that happened was that he took off running. I suspect that the current traveling through the pee stream caused the sphincter to spasm and shut down the stream, breaking contact. Another time, a third railman in the PATH system was asked about this by a spectator (we were working in a station) and his answer was "It depends on the acid content of the stream."

Unless that dog was up drinking all night, the "stream" would be discontinuous, at best:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plateau%E2%80%93Rayleigh_instability

Pee on an electric fence? Been there, done that.

years ago we had such an arrangement::

[phase faulting to case device] me [bath me [plumbings]] - it feels like billions of litle needles flowing through you - extreamly hard to control your movments in such conditions (i didn't go testing around with different arrangements)