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Fireball Travelling Down Power Lines in Montreal

11/04/2013 5:59 PM

OK, how many have seen the video of the fireball travelling down the power lines in Lacine CA?

The person that video taped the incident said it happened twice and he caught it the second time on tape, very interesting footage.

http://youtu.be/34r6RGF2JLA

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#1

Re: Fireball travelling down power lines in Montreal

11/04/2013 6:02 PM

What video? I don't see any link to a video.

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#2
In reply to #1

Re: Fireball travelling down power lines in Montreal

11/04/2013 6:05 PM

I haven't seen it.

Moment huge fireball traveled down power lines near Quebec just ...

Or: http://youtu.be/34r6RGF2JLA

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#3

Re: Fireball travelling down power lines in Montreal

11/04/2013 6:46 PM

Goodness gracious great balls of fire..!! That was awesome.....lousy camera work though....DC meets AC....that had to be millions of volts....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34r6RGF2JLA&feature=youtu.be

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#4

Re: Fireball travelling down power lines in Montreal

11/04/2013 7:06 PM

I watched it a number of times.

I am suspecting that something started a line to line arc and the wind was just the right speed and direction to push it along horizontally similar to how a Jacobs ladder travels vertically.

As far as voltage goes I suspect it was normal line voltages but it was on a higher current feeder that could carry a sustained arc without having the main breakers trip right away.

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#5
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Re: Fireball travelling down power lines in Montreal

11/04/2013 7:21 PM

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#10
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Re: Fireball travelling down power lines in Montreal

11/04/2013 11:22 PM
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#7
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Re: Fireball travelling down power lines in Montreal

11/04/2013 7:27 PM

The formation of plasma by the arc uses up air in the arc and it becomes slightly higher in resistance(my guess). This forces the arc along the lines. It is not particularly high voltage going by the insulators in the picture, but the available high current because protection has not tripped allows it to propagate. With the Jacobs Ladder the arc eventually goes out as the distance between the rails increases and heat drives the arc up into a curve.

The power lines were the same distance apart so this arc stretching was not occurring.

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#8
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Re: Fireball travelling down power lines in Montreal

11/04/2013 9:20 PM

Well they speculate in the article that this might, could be, ball lightning....I personally have never seen this phenomena, but my grandmother said she saw it once, it was about the size of a basketball, came through a closed sliding glass door, through the house and out a wall across the street and into a neighbors house who claimed she saw it as well....weird....I got to checking, frankly I thought she might be losing it....and it has been reported.....although it certainly is quite rare...

Found this on Wiki...

"

Black hole hypothesis

Another hypothesis is that some ball lightning is the passage of microscopic primordial black holes through the Earth's atmosphere. This possibility was mentioned parenthetically by Leo Vuyk in 1992 in a patent application and a second patent application in 1996 by Leendert Vuyk. The first detailed scientific analysis was published by Mario Rabinowitz in Astrophysics and Space Science journal in 1999.[69] Inspired by M. Fitzgerald's account of ball lightning on 6 August 1868, in Ireland that lasted 20 minutes and left a 6-metre square hole, a 90-metre long trench, a second trench 25 meters long, and a small cave in the peat bog. Pace VanDevender, a plasma physicist at Sandia National Laboratories in Albuquerque, New Mexico, and his team found depressions consistent with Fitzgerald's report and inferred that the evidence is inconsistent with thermal (chemical or nuclear) and electrostatic effects. An electromagnetically levitated, compact mass of over 20,000 kg would produce the reported effects but requires a density of more than 2000 times the density of gold, which implies a miniature black hole. He and his team found a second event in the peat-bog witness plate from 1982 and are trying to geolocate electromagnetic emission consistent with the hypothesis. His colleagues at the institute agreed that, implausible though the hypothesis seemed, it was worthy of their attention.[70]"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ball_lightning

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#11
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Re: Fireball travelling down power lines in Montreal

11/04/2013 11:30 PM

For a fictional treatment, check out Bill deSmedt's Singularity. The Tunguska event is speculated to have been a small black hole, and some plotters try to capture and use the idea.

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#16
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Re: Fireball travelling down power lines in Montreal

11/05/2013 11:04 AM

have created what I would call simple ball lighting a number of times back when I used to play with high voltage high current sources for giggles.

I found that by taking two old 6 volt automotive ignition coils and wiring them in series with one set to the opposite phase of the other and then severely overdriving them with a ~2Kw spark gap based power source I would quite regularly get neat little white/blue balls of electrical plasma to pop off the primary HV arc that was going between the secondaries.

I found the old style ignition coils can take the extreme overdriving without developing internal shorts as easily as the new modern ones which do not have near the robust internal insulation and core design.

Being they were being severely overdriven I would place them in a bucket of oil for further external insulation and cooling being that it was common to draw out an arc over 10+ inches with a wicked amount of heat coming off it.

The power supply I drove them with was just an old microwave oven transformer and voltage multiplier set up in a typical capacitive discharge spark gap using heavy tungsten rods with a fan blowing over them for cooling and faster arc quenching.

My theory is that ball lightning will form as a secondary effect of the HV arc of a super saturated iron core induction coils magnetic field collapsing. Given they had a nominal resistance of 3 ohms and ran on ~6 volt systems at most they would have seen 12 - 15 watts of power. Whereas I was deliberately overdriving them at around 100 - 150 times that power level!

Most of the little balls ranged from pea size to an occasional large marble size and would last 1 - 2 seconds with a few of the larger ones going for 3 - 4 seconds before dispersing in a sizzling pop. Most would sort of role and bounce around my work bench or float around like they were trying to follow the magnetic field lines of the arc.

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#17
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Re: Fireball travelling down power lines in Montreal

11/05/2013 11:19 AM

Had to give you GA for that. Do you have any theories as to what sustains ball lightning? By all accounts they can exist for minutes and (I think) pass through windows/doors - can that be true?

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#18
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Re: Fireball travelling down power lines in Montreal

11/05/2013 11:53 AM

Not really. The fact I could get it to occur regularly enough to be able to get a rough guess at what I was seeing was good enough for me.

No clue as to how the natural ball lightning forms but the duration of what I made seemed to be relative to size. The bigger the ball the longer they would last.

A buddy of mine has a good sized scrap yard where I do the repair work on their big magnet crane systems. He and the guys who work there have said that over the years they have seen a similar phenomenon occasionally occur when the power leads get ripped off their electromagnets with a large iron load on them.

As they describe it odd glowing fuzz balls of electricity will shoot off the leads when they get ripped apart and sometimes bounce around the electromagnets for a second or two before disappearing.

My guess is that some of its creation has to do with inductive field energy being dissipated in an open electric arc.

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#19
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Re: Fireball travelling down power lines in Montreal

11/05/2013 12:38 PM

There are different kinds......very different...I think these are different types of phenomena that just appear to have some similarities in appearance...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DNMQMBPrgUA&list=PLA5B4897404F34F8B

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#20
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Re: Fireball travelling down power lines in Montreal

11/05/2013 2:14 PM

That's been my suspicions as well. Similar appearance but likely rather different conditions that create it and maintain the effect.

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#24
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Re: Fireball travelling down power lines in Montreal

11/06/2013 10:44 AM

Build your rig again, make a YouTube video of how to use it, and upload a complete parts list and schematics. I would think this would do more to generate interest in the STEM learning career than any government program, with the side benefit of perhaps slowing the population growth somewhat.

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#25
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Re: Fireball travelling down power lines in Montreal

11/06/2013 3:05 PM

I'm married now and my wife made me burn down my workshed when we moved the house.

I'm not allowed to play with dangerous stuff or have any toys I like to play with any more for that matter. Heck just having the soldering gun and multimeter on the kitchen table last week so I could fix her computer power pack was more than enough to cause a day and a half stink about what can or can not have in the house.

On top of all of that all of my high powered electronics gear is packed away in boxes in my shop where they are likely never going to see the light of day again.

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#26
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Re: Fireball travelling down power lines in Montreal

11/06/2013 3:26 PM

"Heck just having the soldering gun and multimeter on the kitchen table last week so I could fix her computer power pack was more than enough to cause a day and a half stink about what can or can not have in the house."

1) Did she ask you to fix her computer (or order, or however she wants to phrase her 'honneydew list')?

2) Did she realize that you cannot fix computers without tools?

3) Is she the type to respond to logic, or is she the type who gets angry when you point out inconsistancies in her requests?

4) Would she have realized that it was her giving you grief about having tools to fix her computer that led you to undo the fix (by removing the power pack you had to fix)?

5) Am I just causing trouble with these logical questions?

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#28
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Re: Fireball travelling down power lines in Montreal

11/07/2013 10:24 AM

1) Actually she wanted me to buy her a new $600+ laptop since hers was not turning on and staying on again. She drags the power packs around with it until the cords get pulled apart on the plug going into the laptop. 3rd one in two years. 3rd time she "needed" a new computer because of it.

2) Her world does not directly go with reality.

3) See #2.

4) She doesn't realize a lot of things I do.

5) No. At least your questions make sense.

For more info on what my home life is like too many days out of the year, ---> http://cr4.globalspec.com/thread/86611.

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#27
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Re: Fireball travelling down power lines in Montreal

11/06/2013 3:37 PM

Are you being a nice guy, or suffering from a severe case of PWing?

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#14
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Re: Fireball travelling down power lines in Montreal

11/05/2013 8:03 AM

Actually it was probably not a higher current feeder, but rather it was toward the outer end of a longer feeder with low load. The high impedance of a long cable run and a high-impedance arc, along with low load current, means the standard overcurrent relays at the substation never see high enough current to trip. It's a common problem for a utility's protection engineers with long rural feeders, trying to determine reasonable relay settings when actual fault currents are often so low that they look like normal load current.

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#22
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Re: Fireball travelling down power lines in Montreal

11/06/2013 9:16 AM

Absolutely - looks like my old friend from college, Bear Johnson's Jacobs ladder he had in his room in the dormitory. Scared the crap out of the dormitory cleaning staff - they wouldn't set foot in his room.

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#6

Re: Fireball travelling down power lines in Montreal

11/04/2013 7:25 PM

Almost like a scene from a Twilight Zone episode

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#9

Re: Fireball Travelling Down Power Lines in Montreal

11/04/2013 11:17 PM

Cool the conspiracy theory jets...just a standard arc-over moving down the line. No St. Elmo here...

Very cool! Got my plasma fix for the day.

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#12
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Re: Fireball Travelling Down Power Lines in Montreal

11/04/2013 11:46 PM
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#15
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Re: Fireball Travelling Down Power Lines in Montreal

11/05/2013 10:52 AM

Sweet! Thanks.

I liked that at 1:41...interesting.

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#13

Re: Fireball Travelling Down Power Lines in Montreal

11/05/2013 4:11 AM

I blame Jerry Lee Lewis for all this.

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#21

Re: Fireball Travelling Down Power Lines in Montreal

11/06/2013 8:46 AM

The question that came to my mind was ...how did he know it was going to happen so he could have the camera/phone ready??

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#23
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Re: Fireball Travelling Down Power Lines in Montreal

11/06/2013 9:21 AM

The blurb under the video says that this was the second fireball. He saw the first, ran to get his camera, was too late to film it, and the, 'Oh poopie! here comes another one!'

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