I Want to Take a Break but Nowhere to go

Perhaps you should find some new reading material that says you will be safe where you are, and also all the people you threaten with doomsday scenarios....

SolarEagle:

Nice idea. I am not doing this as this RT TV channel is not owned by me and you can also see the channel.

I forgot to tell that they have shown a lot of chemical spray by Aircraft on agriculture farms and have also shown that business lobby is dominating and is actually likely to be responsible for the doomsday.

Are you saying that USA population is very safe and all this is just a propaganda by Russians against USA? Perhaps may be. We know what happened at Chernobyl or Bhopal.

Just assume that all ice is gone then 10 m water sure may go up in the sea and this is very realistic figure. Isn't it or do you have another information from any NSF or NRC source? I think you know but want to close your eye in support of the Government for time being. When do you think real danger will emerge on our own time scale? 10 years from now or 100 years?

In my place where I line in the last 66 years there never has been the amount of rain I am experiencing now. We had clear 4 seasons of 3 months each and now it is raining daily in winter here and has killed all crops so what is that people going to eat? Luckily we have stock of food grain for few years. In 1965 India imported those dirty wheat grain from USA that even your pigs refuse to eat as there was no backup plan and no food to eat. India Prime Minister asked all people to go hungry once a week and I was getting just two bread slides to eat twice daily as there was not enough food anywhere in the country. If whether changes badly then where from these billions of people going to get food and water? Doomsday going to happen in anyway as Earth has already entered into no return path and only way perhaps it can return is to wipe out humans the way it did to Dinosaurs.

RT channel is quoting NASA data and that must not surprise you.

Well anywhere you go that is ~130 meters (Absolute worst case scenario) above present sea level will be safe from ocean flooding.

If you are looking for ice come to where I live. we are 500 - 600 meters above sea leave plus in the center of a large continent and I can guarantee you that even if the world saw a 15 C temp rise that covered every day of the year we would still have snow and cold winters for you.

Now more seriously quit reading the doom and gloom para science global warming crap. So little of it's information and scenarios are based on any real scientific facts that it should be calle tabloid conjecture not science.

tcmtech:

I am right now at 212m from sea level. This place get badly affected by excessive rain as plan is not for heavy rain and there is no way for water to get out as there may be some dip in the zone and hills around.
Lyn may know as he lives in area where there are so many lakes. I think he can buy a boat house now.
I have seen 10000 plus deaths in one go in Andhra Pradesh Cyclone as I was in that coastal zone at that time. This time Government shifted 4 million people well in time so they saved lives.
I think it is not worth closing the eyes. Had Government of India acted in time, there must have been many deaths. See this page http://disastermanagement.ap.gov.in/website/history.htm

Shyam,

Please do not believe the untruths that the notorious polluter and tire burner tcmtech is spreading about global warming not being real.

Contrary to his incorrect view that the earth is not warming, most all real scientists and scholars understand that the earth has gone through many heating and cooling cycles during its lifetime of billions of years.

We are presently in a warming cycle.

Climate trends are not measured in even hundreds of years, but rather in of thousands of years.

The fact is that since man has only been burning fossil fuels for a little over a hundred years in any significant quantity, we don't know what the long term effect of the air pollution we are causing today has on global warming, if any.

I can assure you that the health hazards of air pollution are well documented.

Coal is not better than alternative "new" fuels. That fact is well known. Coal causes terrible air pollution. Just look at China to see what the rampant increase of coal burning has done to their atmosphere.

You are an intelligent man and can surely research this topic for yourself.

Good luck.

Lin,

I can't take away voting right of tcmtech and he has right to say whatever feels.

Do you have earth temperature cycle data? We do have Sun magnetic field and solar activity data of 12 years cycle. I have seen these links

http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/2008/methane-tt1029.html

http://www.climatedepot.com/2013/06/15/forget-the-temperature-plateau-earth-undergoing-global-cooling-since-2002-climate-scientist-dr-judith-curry-attention-in-the-public-debate-seems-to-be-moving-away-from/

Shyam,

You make the same mistake as many do.

Both the sites you reference deal in short term changes in atmospheric conditions.

That does not make climate.

Even Anonymous Hero falls prey to the "global warming is political" hoax.

The impact of humanity is yet to be determined.

The adverse impact of air pollution on humanity is real.

tcmtech's tire burning is insignificant to the atmosphere.

lyn,

Impact of air pollution is real and we have just witnessed effect of mining and thousands of deaths in India for Pilgrims in Himalayan Valley. We have also witnessed change in sea salinity as now soil is easily washed and reaches sea coast.

I am looking at greater impact on climatic changes. Yes, we have only 100 years data at best and not all of it in quantitative form. We quickly learnt from radiation disasters and now guide lines are stricter and awareness much greater but we are yet to learn from over all environmental disasters.

I expect myself to live for about another 12 years. However my children and grandchildren are going to live here and they are my rebirth so this concern is very universal and is not limited to my life of these 12 years. This estimate is based on the Hindu way of civil life limited to 75 years.

Buy up real estate in Nevada. Either all the snow will melt and coasts will flood, or the Big One will hit first and California will fall into the Pacific. Either way you can open a marina in Vegas.

Really, if you think all the world's snowcap is melting, visit the U.S. Two days ago it was snowing in subtropical Houston, Texas.

:)

Theophilus Stark:
NO, thanks. Nevada is not for living. I have seen that site and there were lots of nuclear blasts there and I am already retired from Atomic Energy. I want to live with common people.

Yes, a little over 5,000 open-air nuclear tests *worldwide,* and now we have Fukashima. If you think you haven't been exposed to it all, and already, well, it's everywhere. Nevada is no more or less contaminated than, say, India (who also conducted tests, I might add). Pick a spot, any spot, on Earth. It's been contaminated.

If it's radiation you're worried about, India has among the largest reserves of thorium on the planet. Wonderful alpha emitter, and there are beaches on India's east coast that nearly reek with the stuff whose daughter products are radium and actinium. I need not tell how potent radium is.

Theophilus Stark:

Nice to see you in active state and also quick.
Yes, there are hot spots in India naturally with 200mR/hour radiation dose due to lots of Thorium in the soil / sand.
India radiation map may be available as TLD radiation survey of India was done by Dr. Nambi.
http://inis.iaea.org/search/search.aspx?orig_q=RN:20084715

http://inis.iaea.org/search/search.aspx?orig_q=RN:21079037

https://www.google.co.in/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=10&cad=rja&ved=0CHEQFjAJ&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ijrr.com%2Fbrowse.php%3Fa_id%3D738%26slc_lang%3Den%26sid%3D1%26ftxt%3D1&ei=HrLlUorwBcW8iAfokYHgDg&usg=AFQjCNGh2fn7N4UbWNMq-tNV0F0CZZzIBA&sig2=IRGqv75GWevXhOlvkZ7Nnw&bvm=bv.59930103,d.aGc

Theophilus Stark:

So you don't want to say something proper unless given GA. I have given one point in advance to let you say something meaningful. If someone is removing that point then it is not me. I never looked at my GA and only when you made fuss, I looked at it and it goes up and down so it makes no sense to me. Perhaps Chris can remove this. He looks like have gone underground.

I didn't award myself a GA - and couldn't if I wanted to. I am pleasantly surprised that someone gave me one. I'm sorry you're not. Of a truth, your comment speaks more about you than it does about me.

Anonymous Hero:
Come on. We are not talking about Maya Calender. You know exactly what we are discussing here.
Let us talk about exactly what we know without hiding the truth.
Mining of Antarctica and Alaska are inevitable and there may be even International war for all this as tension is already mounting in East. Global warning is deliberate to gain access for more land, oil and minerals at any cost.

What is deliberate is the acquisition of power.

However, as history has taught us, that path to power is ridden with the unexpected.

Just as in war, no plan survives the first day at the battlefield.

While it is tempting to think that governments or organizations somehow have everything following some clever diabolical plan, it is nothing like that at all.

The idea of global warming being used as a mechanism to exploit the very things that are alleged to cause it does not make sense.

Anyway, international treaty forbids mining in Antarctica. I don't think that is going to change.

Unfortunately, there are many people that prey upon the doubts and fears of people. This is why companies are selling bunkers to individuals with deep pockets.

By the way, this is nothing new. In the late 1950s selling bomb shelters was big business then. I know, a good friend's father bought that dream (nightmare), too.

Like I said, people have been forecasting the end of the world for millenniums and every one of them (all of them) have been wrong.

With that kind of track record I have no confidence that anyone is going to be right now.

You can drive yourself sick worrying about such things and in the end it is all for nothing. Life is too short for that.

Worry robs you of both the Present and the Future. A shorter life expectancy and misery enroute. The stress of worry not only robs you of your peace-of-mind, it cripples your ability both to plan for the future and deal with the present.

The body responds to stress whether it is caused by anxiety about the future or a real tiger in one's cave - the body's response is the same: task #1 shut down the brain's frontal lobes so they won't get in the way of the 'fight or flight' response.

This shutting-down can actually lower one's IQ by as much as 40 points (and if the person isn't very smart to begin with, they're in deep caca. It is why some people in violent or highly threatening situations 'blank out.'

Worry doesn't add one damn thing to your life in exchange for what it takes away. People who buy bunkers out of some imagined threat are in graver danger from their own adrenaline glands! The best 'bunker' they can invest in is to *stop worrying* and do something about the the cause of it - sometimes this amounts to nothing more than breaking a bad habit.

Shyam, the best gift you can give your children is to *stop worrying about the future and do something about it.*

-T

Theophilus Stark:
"Shyam, the best gift you can give your children is to *stop worrying about the future and do something about it.*"

Thanks for advice. Out of my three children, one daughter and one son are in USA and one daughter is in UK. They decide their own life as they are highly educated and I do not guide them else they will live my life. I prefer all those who can think to live their own life using their best ability under survival of the fittest - Darwin's Principle. My one daughter is working on Zero Carbon building research for her Ph. D. in Architecture while son is in MBA after his MS is a software engineering. One daughter who is in UK is a specialist Doctor in Psychiatry. We all are different because none were ever told to be something alike to me.

My fear for the life of the people is real as losing life in fraction of seconds can happen anywhere on the earth for large population. Few lives lost no one need to worry too much as that does not tilt the balance of humanity and is like an accident.I do know the places in USA where in town no child can get born and it is not a 20th Century Fox Movie alone but a real fact of chemical contamination. I am aware of the EPA and NRC activities for very long now as I am working from 1974 onward. Earlier I used to get NRC research Bible but now it is stopped even in USA. I also had links with ACS, ANS and many other organizations.I am sure all of you are also are highly experienced people, well aware of situations. I am 100% sure that most of the organizations cover up environmental disasters and kill people all the time.

My concern is loss of the entire humanity, chaos, and mindless destruction and not just digging few holes here and there in the earth.Political decisions bound to go wrong and who is going to prevent then from happening as most of us are apolitical?

I am not going to criticize anyone's opinion here but I will like to see the spectrum of ideas.

I don't know what to tell you, but not to get so worked up about it.

Alarm bells should be going off anytime the argument swings toward an emotional plea.

As an educated man you know how the scientific method works and if science was run by emotional arguments we would have nothing more than a technological religion with no basis other than the appeal of drama.

If you look at the debate style of climate change it is no different than any other hotly debated social issue. It's like gun control in the US. Every claim is made on a emotional premise with just a few facts stuffed in to make it sound like it has some credibility.

We live in a world of drama queens and when there isn't enough of that people have to start making things up. My appeal to you is to not let yourself get sucked down in that spiral of doom.

Once you get out of that dark downward vortex things look a lot clearer.

Anonymous Hero:

We can only talk about and model Scientific Data and make use of Engineering Technology. If we can influence Government with meaningful results then we should keep trying as they are the source of funding and implementation authorities.

There is no scope for emotional out drive as well but without looking at history and modeling prediction we would have never known anything about the past buried in the rocks and the origin of the universe. I was once doing TL Archaeological dating of rock and pottery samples and some others were doing C14 dating for bio material. It was very interesting one. We don't have reliable pointers to the future that can say with some greater confidence about where we will stand after say few hundred or few thousands years later or does that really matters at all?

Anonymous Hero:

Yes I do believe in positive thinking. However, I am not very religious. My religion is mostly humanity and my research work.

Assuming that we are not on the edge of the disaster yet, it may be worth looking at the meaningful data to understand the problem. I know it is not easy to model such disaster as we have no way to verify the consequences.

How about going through Lab scale model or understanding man made disasters already visible on earth?

We have seen Tsunami effect recently but these can be associated with geothermal activities rather than man made disasters. What else are evidences similar to ice melting on Himalayan, Alaska and Antarctica. What are real consequences of these. I know the history of Greenland and climate changes.

In India right now the effect of climate change is favorable as it has increased rain and crop production bound to be up in areas where mostly rain water is directly linked to crop yield. Some crop of mustered seed is lost due to hail storms.

Rain will also fill the ground water table by recharge and it sure will help for a while. Our local dam is full of water which usually had less than half level in most of the years.

Shyam-

I am not theorist, psychologist nor a philosopher. I can understand though why you could have the thoughts about the many factors of life here on earth. Life on earth, as either a microcosm or a macrocosm, can be very confusing and without clear reasoning. Many others share your questioning at some time in their lives. I would like to provide you with several thoughts I have about the same things you have mentioned, but in my life. There is no continuity between them, just random thoughts:

Any day on the green side of the grass is a great day. Just ask someone who has had an extreme life threatening event. They appreciate what the small stuff is and don't sweat about them. They also feel that almost everything is small stuff. (I have been legally dead twice due to part of my body shutting down). Everything is small stuff to me. Moscow burning- small stuff; Mid-east countries have nuclear capabilities- small stuff; mid-east countries volley nuclear bombs at each other- small stuff; Antarctica sinking- small stuff, throw the scientists life jackets and give them a boat ride home. I'm alive to participate in CR4, now that's the great stuff.

The Serenity Prayer- "God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, courage to change the things I can, and wisdom to know the difference". I'll do what I can but won't sweat those I can't do.

Grover Mills, New Jersey, USA- Goggle that one. Orson Wells had a lot to do with that one. Maybe what seems terrible today really isn't so bad after all!

Why do scientist and engineers have a higher suicide rate than the rest of the population? Maybe we don't know when to stop or settle for less than the best. Perfectionism doesn't have to rule their lives.

"If you are standing with one foot in yesterday worrying what went wrong, and with the other foot in tomorrow worrying about what is going to happen, you are "peeing" on today". Live for today, don't regret yesterday or worry about tomorrow.

Scientists and engineers know that there are so many things that are interrelated and coordinated in science and engineering is that random? Is there a higher power that planned it so everything works so well together? You and I couldn't have planned everything to run as well together as it has.

Bad news is good selling news. Bad news is easier to sell than good news so that's what they give you. You know there are so many good things in this world, put them in perspective and enjoy those that outnumber the others. Enjoy the good things.

Finally, look back at Grover Mills. When things look really bad, they really aren't. Things usually turn out pretty good. Do you look at the world with a frown on your face or a smile? Fewer muscles are used to smile than to frown.

That is part of the philosophy of "Old Salt". Consider them, like them and keep them, dislike them and throw them out. Pick those you want to remember. Not everything is as bad as someone else says it is. They are out to get your attention. Look at the world with your own perspective. There have been a lot of "forecasters, consultants, experts, and other names who give you what they want you to hear. Is honest truth one of them?

Good Luck, Old Salt

old salt:

Sometime a pinch of Salt is good enough for change of taste. I understand the kind of feeling one can get when life is uncertain due to body itself and no medical cure around.

I like your Philosophy and Ideology. I am working to get funds to help those are living on edge and will not get help from Government. Just finding ways to survive and let others also survive. I think disasters will also provide us ways to survive. I am not sure if Hiroshima event can be put in that category of examples but it did provide a lot of useful data for Radiology. Everything else is visible to all so no comments on that. I think this discussion has served a limited but good purpose as nothing more can be expected as we are not on 10 or 50 years long heavily funded research project as team.

I want to thank all participants now. I have found a place where I can go. In fact I am going where problem is rather than going where there is none. I need some work to do rather than sit doing nothing.

These pictures are of Jaliyanwala Bag in Amritsar Punjab India, with bullet marks on the wall which killed thousands of women and children gathered there for a meeting.

"Fewer muscles are used to smile than to frown."

Total aside here but that age old truism is actually a wrongism as it takes fewer muscles to frown than smile.

Mind you, I still prefer the extra expenditure of energy involved in the movement of more muscles that results in a smile than a frown because the more you smile the more energy you expend and that means you can eat more chocolate without putting on weight. So smile, be happy and have another chocolate.

Well, regardless of the energy consumption, smiles are more rewarding.

Anonymous Hero:

I have something that may be interesting one for you to think.

We often allow few supper rich to own the land which they dig everywhere and then there comes flood from their rubbish that kills few thousands. This is a very common phenomenon so do you justify it?

For extra electricity in cities, in coal mines often we find lots of deaths so does the pain reaches those people who enjoy coal power?

We may be indirectly causing a lot of pain to others for something we feel as enjoyment in our life so are we insensitive insects or wild animals?

Masu might have found some Gold Nuggets in Aborigine's land so let him enjoy his chocolates.

You wrote, "We often allow few supper rich to own the land which they dig everywhere and then there comes flood from their rubbish that kills few thousands. This is a very common phenomenon so do you justify it?"

Let's approach this a little more structured.

First, provide a specific example of where this occurred and the outcome was that supports your claim.

Anonymous Hero:

I can give example of India and for your country you can dig yourself.

Recent flood in Himalayan were due to mining and silting and killed thousands of pilgrims in Ganges flood in Himalayan. There were many coal mine deaths and then there is this Bhopal Gas tragedy. Just few are linked here.
Land Slide Deaths in Himalayan Valley

Coal Mine Death in India

Coal mine death images

Bopal Gas Tragedy

Wiki

Okay, here we go.

First, as an educated man you must be aware of the basic principles of argumentation. That is, how to make a claim and how to present evidence that backs that claim up.

Rather than I simply make a counter claim, I would like to point out that your links provide nothing in the way to support your claims.

First, when you make a claim the responsibility falls on you to substantiate that claim. It is no different than making a scientific discovery and presenting that to a scholarly publication. Your work will not be accepted if there is nothing to back up the claim. You can't claim you have discovered the unification of gravity between Einstein and quantum physics and tell everyone to dig for it yourself.

The first link is the Financial Times home page, but the incident you cited was not to be found on that page.

The second link is a google search about a coal mine mishaps in India. However, nothing in those links really supports you claim as the references are simply too broad to draw a conclusion. Essentially, you have given me a series of links to raw unrelated data and you are asking me to make a position paper for you.

The last link with the Bhopal disaster is probably the closest thing to substantiating your claim. However, the causes of the accident are due to many different causes, not just one.

One reason was due to cost cutting. This was brought on because the pesticide market had been saturated with production and there was more pesticide than could be sold. Rather than cut back on production and lay off employees, the management kept production levels static, which required large quantities of these chemicals to be stored, rather than shipped and sold.

Other causes included unskilled workers, which did not understand the dangers of what they were doing or how to correctly cary out procedures. There was aging equipment, poor procedures, too many manual procedures, and bad community planning which allowed rapid growth of slums near the plant, no community disaster planning, and poor health care systems to treat victims.

These causes were not simply due solely to the plant owners, but the community at large as well. So, this is another one of those "Perfect Storms" waiting to happen where a broad spectrum of leaders did not do what should have been done to mitigate or prevent such an occurrence.

Does that support your claim that the super rich is responsible for the Bhopal disaster? I would say no, but it may be a contributing factor here. You would need to prepare and present a case for that, but this link does not go anywhere close enough to do that.

The Wiki is just a list of uncorrelated disasters. How does that support your claim? The answer is that it is much too broad to make a compelling case as the causes are as varied as the colors in the rainbow.

I think it would be very hard to make a solid case for your claim, but if you did enough research it would make a good scholarly paper.

Anonymous Hero:

I noticed that link was asking for your email. However, those listed 5700 plus deaths were real in Himanchal and Army helicopters were pressed to evacuate people else death must have been much higher. Those were all due to land slide from mining the hills and constructing buildings in river basins and throwing debris in the rivers lead to silting and flesh flood and land erosion from hills and enormous land slides.

Here you can see the India air force personals evacuating people and also watch for land slides at several different places in one time rain. These pictures are mostly of single massive event but in vast area of Himalayan where land cover was affected due to mining activity and building houses at massive scale at wrong places and without care.

Land slide deaths in Himanchal India

Don't behave like the justice definition in that statue / picture of that Lady with balance in one hand and black ribbon on the eyes. I think you can see.

That link illustrates exactly what I am trying to point out.

You are making a claim that mining was responsible for a landslide that killed 5700+ people.

For proof you link pictures of the aftermath, but not one actually supports your claim - they are just pictures of a horrible incident.

I did a quick search at Wikipedia (which is not necessarily a scholarly source) and at least it gave me a better understanding of the disaster and its root causes. Note, that monsoon rain amounts were almost 4 times higher than what normally occurs during the monsoon season.

The word mine or mining is not found once in the Wikipedia article, so I can't substantiate your claim; which may be true, but the article points to other causes.

I am not taking a position on this one way or another. I am simply trying to point out two things:

1. That you are making claims and not providing evidence that even remotely supports those claims.

2. That some or even a large part of your anxiety you feel is self-generated. In other words, I contend that you have become emotionally invested in your position rather than objective in your conclusions.

That is not meant as an insult, I like you, Shyam. I just want you to take a step back and see if your fears are really as well founded as they feel to you.

Perhaps with some introspection you will find some of the peace in your life that you well deserve at this stage in your life.

Anonymous Hero:

Well, for evidences, I have not made a survey and I personally have not been to that place for many years now. I was in that zone in 1971 when things was pretty good. I visited again in 2000 and there were rope trolleys on one hill and most of the green cover was either at minimal or lost.

There has been massive constructions of dams and several villages were evacuated. There are few hundreds contracts for minimal mining in those hills and there were houses and buildings constructed in the mid of the river and also on the edges.

There was famous CHIPKO agitation by the local population which means people will stick to tree and not let contractors cut the trees.

There is thins Kedarnath Temple 1200 years old in the Valley which has been under cover of snow for 400 years. Now it is in the mid of the river. As it is sturdy rock temple, it survived with some cracks here and there but lots of people built their houses in the zone as they could find bread and butter there. Army also constructed their residence inside the river bed. You can't see trees on hils now but they were full of trees when I visited 42 years back.

Temple now and affected by flood. Earlier only Temple was there.

"Masu might have found some Gold Nuggets in Aborigine's land so let him enjoy his chocolates."

Who said anything about it being certain that the land belonged to the aborigines. There is compelling evidence that has been suppressed for over half a century that there were a race of pigmy aborigines that predated the arrival of what we currently call the Australian Aborigines. Like with most invading cultures the more powerful culture committed genocide and wiped them and most of the evidence of their existence of the face of the planet.

When it comes to Australian aborigines and gold, it was just sitting there on the ground glistening away and in 50,000 years they never once picked it up and used it for anything. The Australian aborigines technologically wise stagnated for 50 millennia and never really got past the stone age, never developed a written language nor a counting system of any real use or complexity. They also managed to completely wipe out numerous species of megafauna and their method of hunting which involved setting fire to the grassland and forcing the animals to flee towards them is almost certainly a major contributing factor to the desertification of the continent.

Why they stagnated and lived in a stone age cultural situation for so long is a mystery and with the arrival of Europeans just over 200 years ago the gulf in cultures was certain to cause problems and be catastrophic to the Australian aborigines.

It would be similar to an alien culture from another planet that had managed to master interstellar travel suddenly rocking up and taking over Earth. If they were truly malevolent and only came to earth to assist us in solving the problems we currently face that would be brilliant, but whenever a similar gulf in cultures has collided on Earth the less advanced culture is the one that comes of second best.

Yes the Australian Aborigines were treated badly, yes their culture was brushed aside, but it was going to happen sooner or later because when a culture stagnates for so long sooner or later a culture that has progressed will take it over and wipe it out.

Unfortunately it's a fact of life and trying to assimilate a culture that is 2,000 generations behind the newcomers just isn't going to work, it never has and never will. The best that can be hoped for is that the ancient culture survives in small pockets that are protected by the more advance invaders and their verbal history is preserved in the form of books, images and video.

Human beings are adaptive creatures, the will take a problem and develop a solution and different cultural groups have been developing at different rates, however, whenever a more advanced culture clashes with a less advanced culture it's inevitable that the less advanced culture will disappear.

Earlier in this discussion the abundance of thorium ore in India was brought up and there seems to be an underlying assertion that western technology and greed is the root cause of all the world's problems. Now the greed part I will agree with you on, but it's not confined to just western culture, any culture can and have produced maniacal despotic regimes that have trampled on and killed millions all in the quest for power, for example Pol Pot in Cambodia, then there's the so called Democratic People's Republic of Korea (North Korea) which is about as democratic as a firing squad, where the general population have been so brainwashed that they believe their self-appointed gluttonous leader can do no wrong while the only reason they aren't starving to death is foreign food aid.

But I digress, getting back to the abundance of thorium in India. Have you ever thought of doing something constructive with all that thorium, like building a thorium fission reactor?

Thorium will not sustain a chain reaction like U²³⁵ will, but if bombarded with neutrons will fission and release large amounts of energy. Thorium based reactors have several advantages over the existing U²³⁵ based reactors:

• You can't get a runaway chain reaction that results in a melt down because the reaction has to be initiated by an outside source of neutrons. Stop the neutron bombardment and the fission stops.
• The waste products remain dangerous to the biosphere for a couple of centuries unlike U²³⁵ reactors where the spent fuel remains dangerous for hundreds of millennia.
• Thorium does not need to be enriched as the most common isotope is the one that fissions when hit with a neutron so all you have to do is refine the ore.
• You can't make nuclear weapons from it or the by-products of using it in a reactor. In fact if you mix in the spent fuel from all the existing U²³⁵ reactors you can render it safe in a couple of hundred years instead of the hundreds of millennia needed if it left to decay naturally.
• Thorium reactors can also incinerate plutonium and thereby reduce the risk of surplus plutonium from dismantled nuclear weapons falling into the hands of unscrupulous people that wouldn't hesitate to use it for personal gain or to persecute people that have differing ideas, beliefs or cultures.

So, given all these advantages and the abundance of thorium in India why aren't you building thorium reactors all over the country? They wold generate clean pollution free energy that would help in slowing the damage that is being done to the environment by the widespread use of fossil fuels. Then when you have perfected the technology you would be at the forefront of clean and much safer nuclear power generation. Such technology could be sold the world over making India a very wealthy and technologically advanced country that didn't have to worry about famine, crop failures, climate change et cetera.

I do know that there are people in India that are attempting to do exactly this, but they don't seem to be getting the support they need and are struggling to develop a technology that could very well be the answer to the planet's rapidly growing energy needs and I'm not just criticizing the lack of attention this technology is receiving in India but worldwide.

My apologies for digressing so much from your original post but I thought the points I have raised are relevant to the directions this thread has branched into.

masu:

Where were you sleeping all these days? I thought you were an Alien in AU.
We already have Fast Breeder Reactor for 2-decades now. Many more will breed in time as breeding is not a problem in India. Trigger source, yes, we use Plutonium as we are not going to use that stuff in Nukes.

"We already have Fast Breeder Reactor for 2-decades now. Many more will breed in time as breeding is not a problem in India."

You've got the concept totally upside down, I'm not talking about a fast breeder reactor that makes more plutonium, which in my opinion it the worst thing you can do with plutonium, I'm talking of a way of getting rid of it and rendering it inert and safe in a century of so rather than the hundreds of millennia it takes for the spent fuel from fast breeder reactors to decay naturally.

The more plutonium there is the more chance there is of an accident or even worse some of it falling into the hands of some maniacal, despotic leader that wouldn't hesitate for one second to use it as a weapon of mass destruction.

The best thing you can do with plutonium is stop making more of it and get rid of all the plutonium you already have.

The type of reactor I am talking about is primarily fuelled by thorium which as I stated and you obviously know will not support a chain reaction as the nucleus is not unstable enough and doesn't produce free neutrons when it does fission so there's nothing to sustain the fission process.

In a thorium reactor the core is by itself inert and only produces the low grade radiation you get from the natural decay of thorium. However, chuck a neutron at the nucleus and it will fission and release vast amounts of energy, but there's no free neutron left to fly off and continue the process. To keep the thorium core active you need to keep bombarding it with neutrons. The moment you stop bombarding the thorium core with neutrons the moment the fission process stops as does the generation of energy. So you have an intrinsically safe reactor core as it has to be excited using external neutron sources. That means a meltdown is impossible which in turn means no problems like Three Mile Island, Chernobyl or Fukushima because at the flick of a switch the reactor cores can be rendered inert simply by ceasing the neutron bombardment.

Now the really good part about using thorium as the primary fuel source is that the spent fuel only remains dangerous for a century or two at the most not the hundreds of millennia that the spent fuel from fast breeder reactor does. Even better, if you mix in a quantity of spent fuel from U²³⁵ or fast breeder reactors in with the thorium it renders that safe in a hundred or so years.

So a thorium reactor answers a lot of problems one of which is what to do with all the spent fuel that is steadily piling up in temporary storage ponds around the world. It's piling up in temporary storage ponds many of which are grossly overloaded because in the half century or so that nuclear reactors have been used to generate electricity not one single long term storage facility has been constructed. Half of the problems at Fukushima are the cooling ponds because they are damage and leaking highly radioactive water that is now being pumped out into the Northern Pacific ocean and will ultimately be spread all around the world. All they can do at the moment is try and patch the leaks and keep topping up the ponds so the spent fuel bundles remain covered.

"we use Plutonium as we are not going to use that stuff in Nukes."

There is no way you can guarantee that the plutonium you are currently producing will never end up being used for nuclear weapons, especially when you already have nuclear weapons so how do we know you haven't already used plutonium in your current nuclear arsenal? Also you can never guarantee that at some time due to a security breach or change of government that some of that plutonium you are producing with your fast breeder reactors will not fall into the hand of some maniacal, despotic, regime that wouldn't raise an eyebrow as they used it as a weapon of mass destruction.

If the world is to continue to grow technologically it's going to need more and more energy and we can't keep burning fossil fuels to create that energy without the consequences that go with it. We need a clean, safe source of energy and thorium fuelled reactors may just be the short term answer we are looking for. Not only are they intrinsically safe but the spent fuel remains dangerous for a hundred or so years not hundreds of millennia. Looking after the spent fuel for 200 years is achievable if done properly with proper long term storage facilities where it can be kept secure and monitored.

As for looking after the spent fuel from a U²³⁵ or fast breeder reactor, we can't even look after the spent fuel at Fukushima from one day to the next without contaminating the environment, so anybody that thinks we can look after all the ever increasing stock pile of spent fuel for 50 times as long as the Great Pyramids of Giza have stood has been snorting too much white stuff up their nostrils.

Plutonium, the best thing to do is stop making more of the darned stuff and then get rid of what you already have by incinerating it in something like a thorium reactor where it can be rendered safe in a century of so.

masu;

Entire Indian sea coast - bay of Bengal has open Thorium mine. I have seen their ship like mine which sails in sand dug water. They are actually hunting for precious Rare Earth material there and Radioactive Material they have to surrender to the Government. Thorium is in just enormous amount and more dangerous if not removed. I think they convert it into U233 which is fissile material. I am no longer part of the nuclear activities so I have no idea of what are their plans. I think they can enrich in blanket material.

Pleas ignore this post, it was a duplicate of the one before.

You should not jump to conclusions about global warming when the problem most likely is an affect of El Nino Southern Oscillation (ENSO). It will affect the monsoon season and make it weaker as well as the rainfall to be expected. The effects of ENSO is expected to hit North America in 2014. The last time it hit there was extensive flooding in the mid-west. Perhaps the effects will not be as great this time around. ENSO has cycles of 7 to 9 years and is not as predictable as far as trying to predict local weather conditions. I would suggest that rather than blaming global warming for India's weather, look to something like the ENSO.

There are many articles on the Himalayan glacial field and many of the doom predictions have not been proven. As for who is to blame for any aspect of global warming you can look to natural cycles or anthropogenic influences and find a host of information on the internet or local libraries. As for a place to go to help, I would suggest you contact an NGO or other group that is focused on water issues. I am getting too old to remember a good one at the moment but will post when I jog the right brain synapses. Or you can contact the AWWA, ASGWSE or (National Ground Water Association) NGWA for advice. Use google search for more details.

My brother goes to her ashram in India for 3 month stretches, and while he's home in New Mexico, his wife goes there. Sometimes they go together and bring the kids.

They seem to really like it there.

http://amma.org/

kramarat:

Feelings are in one's own mind and you only look for an environment to discover them.

Whenever, we associate ourselves to other fellow humans by developing some kind of relationship, we also associate with expectations and there comes disappointments also as expectations are the root cause of all disappointments.

There is no human God or Goddess but some do imitate what God or Goddess might do. If you find happiness even for a while then, then let it be so. I find happiness in Cosmos where Galaxies are linked in Cosmic neuron fabric and Galaxies travel faster than the speed of light and each Galaxy has a giant Black Hole it its center. Perhaps we may also have one Black Hole in our head which we often call as our Soul.

Maybe so.

This woman has millions of followers, and apparently, a single hug {from her} can lead to some sort of cosmic realization, and happiness.

I'm glad that my brother and his wife have found something to believe in...but I'm with you. I think that whatever "gift" she has, resides within all of us. I'd prefer to search inward for answers, rather than looking outside of oneself. Not to say that she doesn't have only the best intentions.

Plus, it's a really long flight to India.

kramarat;

Being happy and having expectations are two different things. Expectations sometime may backfire and you know the end result.

Sometime new environment gives happiness. You then start expecting that something will happen on its own due to some place or some person and then when nothing happens, particularly when you expect that something should happen the way you think it should happen then you know the outcome in your mind very easily.

kramarat;

Being happy and having expectations are two different things. Expectations sometime may backfire and you know the end result.

Sometime new environment gives happiness. You then start expecting that something will happen on its own due to some place or some person and then when nothing happens, particularly when you expect that something should happen the way you think it should happen then you know the outcome in your mind very easily.

Think quantum mechanically. There are all possibilities.

"Galaxies travel faster than the speed of light"

I think you need to do some more reading because there is a fundamental speed limit in the universe and it's called the "SPEED OF LIGHT" and no matter where you are, which direction you are travelling in, which direction the source of light is travelling in the speed of light in a vacuum is always the same. It's one of the fundamental constants in the universe.

Also nothing can exceed this speed not even gravity so there is no way that galaxies can travel faster than the speed of light regardless of where, when or which way you are going.

Read somewhere about Black Holes and the speed at which Galaxies move and merge. There is no time and space in Black Holes and all Galaxies have Gigantic Black Holes. Space and time is not linear.

Sort of.

First, we really do not understand black holes very well, but theory has it that time and space are indeed warped at the presence of of the event horizon of a black hole. That is, time appears to slow down for an object falling into the event horizon from the perspective of an outside observer. If you could drop a clock into a black hole and some how compare it with a clock outside of the black hole the dropped clock would appear to slow down as it enters the event horizon.

The important thing is that time-space outside of a black hole (at a reasonable distance) is "normal". So, our position in the Milky Way really feels no effect from our galaxy's black hole, Sagittarius A*.

Second, no galaxies are actually moving faster than light. However, it is theorized in the Standard Model that early on in the universe's birth that space briefly expanded at a rate that was much, much faster than C (light). This is called the Inflationary Period and it lasted from about T = 10^-36 seconds to T = 10^-33 seconds.

That very, very brief instant the universe expanded from a rather small size to almost as large as we observe it now. However, no galaxies had even begun to form at that time (see picture below). For that matter, no stars had yet formed. The Universe was a soup of high energy particles.

While space can theoretically expand or contract without limit, objects or energy within space are still bound by C.

Anonymous Hero:

Singularity. Thanks.

There was something before Big Bank too with perhaps different Physics laws and these must have continued for a while till new Physics laws were born in the expanding Universe. Perhaps we will know in next 2 decades unless Aliens come and tell us earlier.

If we can have low Gravity then we can also have Zero Gravity. One more dimension simply locked-in in the string theory.

There are two paths to everything. One in which light has limits and one in which there is no distance or every thing is in everything and we can travel much faster than light comparatively. Remember Columbus for a while in crude sense.

We can only speculate about the Big Bang and what transpired before that event.

For that matter, we can only see back so far before the energy levels required to peel back the onion is higher than what we are capable of producing.

That, and the "cloud" that existed prior to the universe becoming transparent to light (lifting of the cosmic veil at the Era of Recombination where T = 300,000 years) is the furthest we can "see" back into the history of the universe.

I am confident we will learn more as we go on, but right now there are far more questions than answers. Lots of busy work ahead.

Anonymous Hero:

You can peak in the past to know or you can make the similar laws if you know how.

Unfortunately we are made up of different type of matter and also using different type of energy source now which has loaded weight nature of gravity, giving falls perception of large distances. Once we break this barrier of understanding, then spaces will shrink to within our limit and we can be anywhere we wish.

Perhaps our physiology / biology is not the right one at present too. It is not linking us to the desired level of knowledge in our senses rapidly and forcing us to work through some useless Physics limited to just survive here for about 100 years at best. Think about if there were some other animals living only 10 or 20 years but having same brain that of us or if we could live 1000 years with same functional brain then also we might have managed our knowledge differently. We die before we begin to understand and we kill someone who try to know or knows things better than us.

Even though I don't like fiction, but Back to Methuselah (A Meta-biological Pentateuch) by George Bernard Shaw makes a bit of sense to me.

I think we are trapped in some kind of net or are prisoners to some other civilization and our perception is falls one. Those who imprisoned us also may come once a while and tell us their part of story of them being our God.

It may not be falls that some of our ancient people lived for few thousands of years and could cross the barriers of body into pure consciousness and could defeat death and acquired knowledge that was not bound by the matter in which we associate ourselves in falls entangled vision. I think we still have some secretes hidden in our perception and not everything is lost. We need to figure it out. Debating and criticizing just will not help to reach that extra ordinary goal. We have to try the other way or some Aliens of Earth just won't let us do that part who may be here to manufacture and steal things or may be using to test their bad biology and chemicals on us treating us as their Guinea Pigs. I may be considered totally wrong but that is my way of thinking and all are free to move on to their own ways to their realities of their perceptions. Of course we argue in same manner as we have a frame work set for arguing by others and it is not our perception of reality in any way. It looks like a falls mirror to me as it is not taking us to where once out ancestors were.

In one lake on Himalayan bones of 8-foot tall ancient humans were found in several thousands and now in just few years most of them stolen. It is also likely that evolution has driven us to what we are now. In ancient Hindu literature Tissue culture of Humans was listed. They could use Tissue of the cut Arm to reconstruct entire Human. I think due to some kind of survival problem on earth some ancient Aliens who came to earth joined the local life system and then they lost their ability of being extraordinary. Some of our fellow humans get the part of their brain working as if some knowledge gate opens for them and takes to new level perception. This is what we see in some people but we could not harvest their source and we were happy with what we got from them and let them rest forever as if they were freaks and some kind of stage performers for us.

If Quantum mechanics is real then we are one of the falls image for sure. Where are the other ones? Perhaps in other world we do not know but one day we will know when we can be anywhere at our wish and can appear and disappear in a jiffy. I am afraid of arguing as I really don't know much yet in my tiny brain.

"We have to try the other way or some Aliens of Earth just won't let us do that part who may be here to manufacture and steal things or may be using to test their bad biology and chemicals on us treating us as their Guinea Pigs."

You've been watching too many science fiction shows, either that or the stuff you've been smoking is much stronger than usual.

Fiction writers do not have all that knowledge yet. They have only old rotten ideas used again and again. The only Science Fiction I read was Methuselah (A Meta-biological Pentateuch) by George Bernard Shaw. It is long ago some 30 years back in time.

I often don't hear much about Australia, Latin America and many countries in Africa. Only Northern zones keep buzzing with activities and there is a hell of politics here. Most of the UFO also land here so they must be bringing some fiction ideas too here.

We have lots of problems, lots of people, economy shattered, hunger, politics and unlimited number of engineers getting ready every year so there is a feasibility for lots of new ideas here.

"There was something before Big Bank too"

Of course there was something before the big bank, we use to trade items for gold which was the standard currency globally for millennia.

Ok typo aside, technically you can't have before the big bang because not only did the big bang create all the matter/energy in the universe it created time and space as well. Space has been expanding ever since and the matter/energy is becoming more spread out, or at least the 5% of it that we can see is. Then there's that elusive dark matter and dark energy that makes up the remaining 95% of the universe. Either that or we have our understanding of gravity wrong.

Anonymous Hero wrote

"That is, time appears to slow down for an object falling into the event horizon from the perspective of an outside observer. If you could drop a clock into a black hole and some how compare it with a clock outside of the black hole the dropped clock would appear to slow down as it enters the event horizon."

You don't even need a black hole to demonstrate the time dilation effect that matter causes due to the way it distorts the space time continuum. It shows up in something that just about everybody in the developed world uses on a daily basis and that's the GPS system. To calculate your position using the clocks in the satellites you need to be able to measure the time to a phenomenal degree of accuracy. However, because the GPS satellites are slightly further from the centre of gravity of our planet than we are on the ground the time runs a little faster for the clocks in the satellites. It's not by much but enough to totally screw the use of them to calculate your position on Earth. I can't remember the exact figures but if they didn't reset the clocks in the GPS satellites on a daily basis against a series of master clocks on earth by the end of a week the system would be out by several hundred metres. Which sort of indicates that we really do understand the effects of gravity pretty well, so the idea that we have our understanding of gravity wrong and that dark matter and energy don't really exist is on shaky ground.

Somehow to me the idea that 95% of the universe is invisible just doesn't feel right and I'm more inclined to think that we somehow have our understanding of how gravity works especially on an intergalactic level and over billions of years wrong. Can we really be certain that the universal gravitational constant is actually constant over the entire universe and all time? If it isn't actually constant over time and space then that could very well mean that dark matter and energy don't really exist.

If binding energy can exist so the negative energy can exist. Black matter - I do not have much idea but it may be the other side of the world, perhaps visible elsewhere in the other parallel world/s and perhaps for them we may be the black matter.

I like the experiment related to space which has proved that space is buzzing with activities and why Universe is expanding. I also liked the idea of Einstein that it is not the gravitational pull but a push by the space that brings things together. You can't question him as he is dead now. Stephen Hawking also thinks in same line and there are many others.

I am keen in the Singularity and Einstein has placed this part in GTR and SPR.

G'day Shyam

In one post you said;

"Most of the UFO also land here so they must be bringing some fiction ideas too here."

Then in another you said;

"I am keen in the Singularity and Einstein has placed this part in GTR and SPR."

If Einstein is correct and unfortunately the more we test GRT and SRT the more it seems to show they he is correct then the more contradictory those two statements are.

I have no doubt whatsoever that life exists somewhere else in the universe and there is even the possibility of extra-terrestrial life within our solar system. But intelligent life gets a bit more difficult and due to the vastness of space the chances of us ever making contact with another developed civilisation are extremely slim. We may be able to detect them but the nearest stars are over 4 light years away so any meaningful conversation at that range would be very slow and laborious. When you start talking about just moving around in our own galaxy your talking over 100,000 light years.

But GRT and SRT limit the speed we can travel to less than the speed of light so getting to even the closest stars is going to take a very long time and the probability that we have been visited by extra-terrestrial intelligent beings extremely unlikely.

I've held a pilot's licence since I was 20 and flown both powered aircraft and gliders so not only have I spent a fair amount of time in the air being a glider pilot I've spent a lot of time looking at and understanding the sky. Unfortunately due to medical conditions my flying activities have been curtailed for some time, but I still maintain my interest in aircraft and the sky they fly in. Now in all that time as well as observing the night sky I have only once spotted something that I can't identify and even then I doubt it was an alien spacecraft even though there is an extremely small chance that it was extra-terrestrial. The most likely explanation of my mystery object is that it is an old satellite in a retrograde orbit that is out of control and tumbling.

If you're interested in seeing my mysterious object you can see it moving against the background of stars in this series of 98 images. The position of the mystery object is marked in the first 6 images to give you an idea of where to look and if you extrapolate you will find it moving diagonally from its starting point to the lower right corner in the last image. It also changes in brightness from being almost invisible to brighter than many of the background stars. All the relevant details can be found in the explanation attached to the set of images.

So aliens visiting in spacecraft and giving science fiction writers ideas, I can't really see it happening.