Previous in Forum: Electric Solenoid Current Draw   Next in Forum: 86 Lockout Relay: Trip Breaker Or Close Coil Inhibit?
Close
Close
Close
10 comments
Rate Comments: Nested
Active Contributor

Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 20

AC 3 Phase Induction Motor Brake

02/12/2014 9:23 AM

As we are having booth door which will work in the direction up and down through 2.2 kw 3 phase induction motor with brake. Now the problem is that when i operate the door down and stop in the middle the door not getting stop suddnely it moves further down say about 4 to 5 inch and then stops. so can any one explain me what would be the reason.

Register to Reply
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.

Good Answers:

These comments received enough positive votes to make them "good answers".

"Almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, vote them!
2
Guru
Canada - Member - If there is a way to screw someting up, there is someone to do so! Safety - Hazmat - New Member

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Iqaluit, NU. Canada
Posts: 1854
Good Answers: 140
#1

Re: AC 3 phase induction motor Brake

02/12/2014 10:13 AM

You need to adjust the brake unit on the door drive to take into consideration the inertia of the moving load.

__________________
Joe Contractor to Electrical Inspector, "What do you mean you are going to make me follow the code?".
Register to Reply Good Answer (Score 2)
Guru
United States - Member - New Member Engineering Fields - Power Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: California, USA, where the Godless live next door to God.
Posts: 4665
Good Answers: 804
#2
In reply to #1

Re: AC 3 phase induction motor Brake

02/12/2014 10:29 AM

Yep, it's just like brakes on a car, they have pads that wear and need periodoc adjusting or replacing. If it was working to stop in mid-travel and no longer is, this is the likely reason.

It also might be that the brake coil is separately energized (uncommon) and the circuit in that brake control is malfunctioning or is not intended to be used in mid-travel, so it has a timer in it. Sometimes on doors, the brake is only intended to be used as a security measure, not to stop the moving door, so the brake coil is only de-energized a few seconds AFTER the motor is turned off. Your first step should be to understand the roll of the brake in your door system.

__________________
** All I every really wanted to be, was... A LUMBERJACK!.**
Register to Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Guru
Popular Science - Cosmology - New Member Technical Fields - Technical Writing - New Member Engineering Fields - Energy Engineering - New Member Engineering Fields - Electrical Engineering - New Member Engineering Fields - Control Engineering - New Member Engineering Fields - Electromechanical Engineering - Old Member, New Association

Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Lexington, KY
Posts: 1639
Good Answers: 73
#3

Re: AC 3 Phase Induction Motor Brake

02/12/2014 2:35 PM

Gravity and inertia are working against your braking action in the down direction. In the up direction gravity cancels the inertia very quickly and static friction kicks in on the brake pads. When the motion ceases, the static friction provided by the break pads will keep it from moving. In the down direction your breaks are only able to provide dynamic friction which is always lower than static friction.

A good alternate motor would be a servo motor. It does not need a brake but it does need power to hold the door in any position you want. And, it will stop it more precisely than an induction brake-motor.

__________________
A great troubleshooting tip...."When you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth." Sir Arthur Conan Doyle
Register to Reply
4
Guru
Canada - Member - If there is a way to screw someting up, there is someone to do so! Safety - Hazmat - New Member

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Iqaluit, NU. Canada
Posts: 1854
Good Answers: 140
#4

Re: AC 3 Phase Induction Motor Brake

02/12/2014 3:17 PM

As a general comment, the standards in effect in North America (I realize you may not be in North Americe) for the drive systems for overhead doors, require that the brake systems fail safe.

Which means you must apply power to release the brake so that the load may move. That way... when the drive looses power, the moving door stops moving.

Do not be tempted to apply any other type of breaking system that does not fail safe.

__________________
Joe Contractor to Electrical Inspector, "What do you mean you are going to make me follow the code?".
Register to Reply Good Answer (Score 4)
Guru
Popular Science - Cosmology - New Member Technical Fields - Technical Writing - New Member Engineering Fields - Energy Engineering - New Member Engineering Fields - Electrical Engineering - New Member Engineering Fields - Control Engineering - New Member Engineering Fields - Electromechanical Engineering - Old Member, New Association

Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Lexington, KY
Posts: 1639
Good Answers: 73
#5
In reply to #4

Re: AC 3 Phase Induction Motor Brake

02/12/2014 3:21 PM

Very good point No60! I wonder if a worm gear drive with a servo motor would qualify in the event of a power failure?

__________________
A great troubleshooting tip...."When you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth." Sir Arthur Conan Doyle
Register to Reply
Guru
Technical Fields - Technical Writing - New Member Engineering Fields - Piping Design Engineering - New Member

Join Date: May 2009
Location: Richland, WA, USA
Posts: 21017
Good Answers: 795
#7
In reply to #5

Re: AC 3 Phase Induction Motor Brake

02/13/2014 12:57 AM

Generally no. Even those of higher ratios cannot be perfectly depended on to be self-locking.

__________________
In vino veritas; in cervisia carmen; in aqua E. coli.
Register to Reply
2
Power-User

Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 127
Good Answers: 5
#6

Re: AC 3 Phase Induction Motor Brake

02/13/2014 12:31 AM

Depending on the size of the roller door most have an internal spring that assists the motor when raising and lower . These springs can lose their tension over time and your door runs on when lowering. one side of the drum is bolted to a fixed plate the other side is bolted to the plate but will have a series of holes in a protruding cylinder that a bar slots into. two man operation one takes the spring pressure the other unbolts the drum from the flange usually clockwise tensions anti clockwise releases move it 1/4 turn at a time rebolt and check roller door until you remove the slippage don't go to far or the spring will break and roller door will make its own way down after you lower it about a quarter of the way. Be careful have seen brocken wrists cracked ribs etc from not bolting drum back on firmly between tests.

Register to Reply Good Answer (Score 2)
Guru

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Mumbai, India
Posts: 1983
Good Answers: 25
#8

Re: AC 3 Phase Induction Motor Brake

02/13/2014 5:22 AM

It can be due to wearing of brake liner or brake needs adjustment. If the brake is D.C then it can be due to residual magnetism in the brake coil which does not release brake instantaneously. This problem can be solved by providing additional contractor in brake coil circuit to stop the residual current.

__________________
"Engineers should not look for jobs but should create jobs for others" by Dr.Radhakrishnan Ex President of India during my college graduation day
Register to Reply
Guru
Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member Safety - ESD - New Member Hobbies - Fishing - New Member

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Near Frankfurt am Main, Germany. 50.390866N, 8.884827E
Posts: 17996
Good Answers: 200
#9

Re: AC 3 Phase Induction Motor Brake

02/13/2014 9:08 AM

There may be two brakes, one dynamic and one mechanical.

The dynamic one is there to stop the door, the other to hold it there.

If a contact is burnt or wiring damaged, the dynamic brake will/may not work properly and not slow the door down abruptly as it should, which may explain the symptoms you are seeing......maybe just the mechanical brake is working.

Just a possibility!!

Note.

A dynamic brake is just removing 3 phase power to the motor and shorting the three motor connections together......nothing more, nothing less.....

Many (here!) do not understand it fully, but it is actually extremely simple.....works on both AC & DC motors. It is built into quality electric drills, bot Battery and mains.....if the drill does not immediately stop when required, its cheap crap!!

__________________
"What others say about you reveals more about them, than it does you." Anon.
Register to Reply
Power-User

Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 131
Good Answers: 5
#10

Re: AC 3 Phase Induction Motor Brake

02/14/2014 4:54 AM

To overcome the effect of the gravity and inertia when going in downward direction you may consider providing electrical braking through DC injection in any two phases of the motor for a short duration and then applying mechanical brake for holding the door. However, electrical braking will not be needed in the upward direction.

This scheme will ensure fast stoppage of motor in downward direction and less wear and tear of the brake lining.

Register to Reply
Register to Reply 10 comments

Good Answers:

These comments received enough positive votes to make them "good answers".

"Almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, vote them!
Copy to Clipboard

Users who posted comments:

Andy Germany (1); debata07 (1); Grochy (1); JRaef (1); North of 60 (2); NotUrOrdinaryJoe (2); suresh sharma (1); Tornado (1)

Previous in Forum: Electric Solenoid Current Draw   Next in Forum: 86 Lockout Relay: Trip Breaker Or Close Coil Inhibit?

Advertisement