Conveyor Pre-Start Alarm

You'll find that:

"This Pre Alert will give the human sound to alert the surrounding people for 30 seconds. After 30 sec., this Pre Alert will start the conveyor belt"

Alarm System - Pre Start Alarm and Audio Visual Alarm ... - IndiaMART

Try this next time: How to Search the Internet - Hannon Library

Ok so from what I understand that is an Indian regulation so let me be more explicit. I am based in Indonesia but work under Australian Standards. Secondly you only answered (?) one part of the question. Thirdly, keep your sarcasm to yourself. I know how to search the internet, I also have access to all the relevant Australian standards.

Then there is no reason to bother CR4 with this conundrum.

Actually this has helped me lots. The sensible answers confirms my conclusions. However, in an accident investigation facts are required not best guess. So it was, IMHO, necessary to bother CR4, as you put it.

Thanks to all those who took this seriously.

"However, in an accident investigation facts are required..."

Unfortunately in my experience, that is not always true, at least in this country. You may be lucky not to be in the US on this, lawyers here will grasp at any straws of ambiguity that they think they can convince a jury to interpret as "reasonable" expectations of end user responsibility. I've been called as an "expert" witness in two cases, both times I left disgusted at the way a jury of nincompoops misinterpreted what I though were very clear issues, based on the way the lawyers would spin it to their advantage.

You are delusional.

Your statement, "However, in an accident investigation facts are required not best guess". proves it.

Not a single fact was presented here, not one.

I provided the only documented source, before you offered that while you were located in INDONESIA (not even Tinkerbell) but working to Australian Standards.

All other statements here are purely speculative opinions, or personal experience.

Tinkerbell offers only insults, and needs no help making Americans look like idiots. Remember, he works for the government, and knows all their secrets.

You gained nothing here that would influence any reasonable accident investigator.

Cheers, keep your fingers out of the conveyor while it is running.

Wow...have you had your medication today? Bit strong. Interesting that the standard that you quoted is the only one I have seen that has an actual time mentioned. What this thread has confirmed is that some countries, such as Australia, and excluding India of course, do not have a standard for alarm time but rather it is "a time interval deemed to be long enough to enable personnel to get clear of the starting machinery." So it is dependent on the on the equipment and site decision.

However, no-one tackled the second part of my question which is only asking for opinion, nothing else and that is "Is it best to start the equipment the moment the siren ceases or should the equipment be running (getting up to speed) while the alarm is still sounding. Of course there will be a time interval where the siren is sounding before the equipment begins to move."

You have no clue, do you?

If, "Conveyor starts while the alarm is still sounding? ( my personal preference)"

you couldn't very well call it a "PRE-START" alarm, could you?

Consult AS 1775 for conveyor pre-start requirements.

Having a command of Australian Standards, you should have known instinctively that I missed a number.

It's really not that important to me. If it were, I would not go to an anonymous forum for technical, personal safety advice.

AS 1755-2000 Conveyors-Safety requirements - SAI Global InfoStore

Does your employer, your insurance carrier and the workers in your plant know where you go for "technical safety" consultation? I doubt it.

Gee you really are prickly aren't you. So show me in the standard where it tells me what the alarm interval should be. Oh you can't because you are only able to download a sample not the full document. So you have speculated that I would find the answer in there...how unlike you. However i note that you have had a personal growth spurt sice meeting me. You actually admitted you were wrong. Well done.

And you my friend are delusional if you think this is the only resource I am using to find a solution to this question. Maybe you should get a life instead of trolling engineering forums.

From your #2

"I also have access to all the relevant Australian standards."

Apparently, you don't, "have access to all the relevant Australian standards".

I can't help you any more.

You haven't helped me anyway. BTW I have a full subscription to SIA Global and was aware of 1755 before you even mentioned it. See ya later

Yeah, great help...

Arizona Troll, Maricopa County style...

India ≠ Indonesia

(Not that this distinction makes much difference.)

India ≠ Indonesia.
Nor Australia.
OP claims to be well equipped to do his own work?

Thanks to you.

I could never do it without your council, guidance and leadership.

You're my hero!

council ≠ counsel.

Dang, didn't see that coming!

From the systems I've worked on, 30 seconds audible and visual pre-start alarm then immediate start.

At the end of the day pre-start alarms shouldn't be needed. With safe systems of work and isolation procedures, anyone working on the conveyor will be protected.

Why don't you just sound the damn buzzer all the time, so that everyone can be perpetually alert to the incredible danger of moving conveyors?

Because you then ignore them as an annoyance.

Indeed!

Unfortunately we can make systems fool proff but not idiot proof. I will give you the background of this question. Last week we had an employee cross a belt when the pre-start alarm was sounding. When he stepped on the belt, the belt started and took mim dow. Fortunately he got trapped between a spray bar and the belt, otherwise he had a 5m drop intio a empty chute. The operator saw this and hit thje e/stop. So I am now involved in an inquiry to determine what happened. The pre-start alarm was mentioned but as I sais I can find no specific mention of parameters apart from the Indian regs mentioned previously.

From experience.. you will always get some wise guy trying to beat the systems... you could sound the start up siren for as long as you wanted.. if someone decides to do something stupid... it wont matter...

I have seen places where

1) no siren

2) sounds for a short time then starts

3) sounds for a short time then starts after 5 to 10 sec

One factor about sirens for starting up is that they have to sound diferent to other sirens (should you have them).. or someone might think thats its a tea-time / lunch time break...

Train your staff on safety in the work enviroment... show them the risks of a short cut... We have safety training every two months and every day we start each day with a 5 min chat about a particular risk.

Everytime we do a job we have safety permits, where we chat about the risks associated with the job we are going to do...

I cannot stress enough about importance of having safety training.

If anyone on the forum thinks that I confused India with Indonesia, I'm amused.

If anyone thinks the distinction is important, I remind you that I provided, the obviously lost, OP with a hint of what someone else in the world was doing.

Tinkerbell, as usual, you bring only bile to the discussion, nothing constructive.

Porky has it. Although there may be different regulations in some areas, nothing can serve to prevent this kind of accident better than training. Here in the US, we don't regulate the timing issue, only that there must be a pre start warning, and the warning does not need to be a horn, it can be someone shouting if it is a small operation! That, and the timing issue is up to each individual plant as part of their overall safety procedure, which must be clearly defined, and ALL workers and visitors must be fully instructed on whatever the procedures are. I have been at mine sites as a one-day visitor doing consulting when MSHA inspectors pop in for a surprise visit. They will ask me what a particular random warning means (per the posted site safety procedure), and if I don't know, the mine operator gets punished with a fine or even up to a shutdown and training decertification procedure. It can get ugly.

All that said, most sites here sound the horn and the conveyor starts afterward with the time being based on the operator. The reason is, the horn is a manual process, so the operator must push the horn button, then remove his finger from it to push the Start button, and they are interlocked to not be able to be pressed simultaneously.

Any equipment that is necessary to place a warning motion alarm. That sounds prior to the motion should not move while the alarm is sounding. You called it a a pre-start alarm. What is pre about it if it you have motion anytime during the sounding of the alarm.

There should also be a delay for personnel to get clear after the sounding of the alarm. Which the time would be different for the type of equipment. As in your case the man standing on the conveyor. What good is the alarm if he does not have the time to get himself clear safely.

Do not forget about the warning lights!

I am of the opinion that an audible alarm is not sufficient by itslef. It has to be accompanied by warning lights along the unit that is switched on.

Whatever you determine for your timing has to apply to the visual alarm as well!

Thanks for all your help, those that helped that is. The only stipulation of the standards that I can find is that an alarm and/ or lights must be activated before the equipment starts. The time period is arbitary. We are going for 10 seconds then immediate start. 10 seconds on this site will allow enough time for any personnel to get clear of the equipment.

You are welcome. Sounds like a prudent time choice. Make sure the alarm is a unique sound.

Thanks again. All our start up alarms are the same but also unique to other alarms such as process alarms. Hopefully, when the guys hear this sound they will know someting is about to start and get them thinking as to where they are situated. We also have a good LOTO on site but doesn't mean that everyone uses it. There will always be someone who wants to try for the Darwin Awards.:)

"... hopefully they will know SOMETHING is about to start..."

This is why you have to add visual warnings so the employee has the ability to know exactly what is going to start!

You will not stand any hope with a lawsuit at hand with the above statement!