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Major Astrophysics Update Coming

03/16/2014 8:49 PM

http://www.spaceref.com/news/viewpr.html?pid=42751 should be quite interesting tomorrow

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#1

Re: major astrophysics update coming

03/16/2014 9:13 PM

Any idea what the big deal is?

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#2
In reply to #1

Re: major astrophysics update coming

03/16/2014 9:37 PM

The rumor is a shift in fundamental perspective, away from the idea that the fabric of space is expanding, toward the realization that the yardstick of space is contracting. Resulting inflation is might use up budgeted attention quickly as arbitrary demands (example) could rapidly outpace the ability to actually pay attention.

.

...but you shouldn't put much faith in rumor. I know the source and I don't think he's being serious.

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#29
In reply to #1

Re: major astrophysics update coming

03/18/2014 4:07 PM

Word wrap is going crazy again. each post takes up about 2 screen widths, very annoying. This is inflation I didn't sign up for.

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#3

Re: Major Astrophysics Update Coming

03/16/2014 10:15 PM

Can't wait, but I will with baited breath!

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#4
In reply to #3

Re: Major Astrophysics Update Coming

03/16/2014 10:59 PM

Baited with what--herring? (Baited ≠ bated.)

--Ed. C.

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#11
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Re: Major Astrophysics Update Coming

03/17/2014 8:07 AM

Don't stand in front of me.

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#26
In reply to #11

Re: Major Astrophysics Update Coming

03/18/2014 8:54 AM

Could it get worse behind you ??

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#27
In reply to #26

Re: Major Astrophysics Update Coming

03/18/2014 9:00 AM

That sounds like the voice of experience. :-)

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#28
In reply to #27

Re: Major Astrophysics Update Coming

03/18/2014 9:19 AM

Direct from the toothless one...

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#5

Re: Major Astrophysics Update Coming

03/16/2014 11:43 PM

I know what they are going to say! The expanding has cooled off the universe up until now. But it will be suggested that the universe has started to contract, which will mean accumulation of energy, which in fact means we have found another if not THE source of global warming.

Here ya go: bones for Mark to get all wound up about it!

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#6
In reply to #5

Re: Major Astrophysics Update Coming

03/17/2014 12:02 AM

Hmmm, I heard something not all that different.

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#7
In reply to #5

Re: Major Astrophysics Update Coming

03/17/2014 12:04 AM

Hmmm....I heard something vaguely similar.

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#9
In reply to #7

Re: Major Astrophysics Update Coming

03/17/2014 7:17 AM

But where? Who would put out such a horrendous scenario? Can we blame mankind? Did they?

Facts we need facts!

At least post a link if you no have facts!

Dont we all?

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#12
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Re: Major Astrophysics Update Coming

03/17/2014 8:08 AM

You wrote, "Can we blame mankind?"

Yes, I am sure it must have ben something we said.

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#30
In reply to #9

Re: Major Astrophysics Update Coming

03/18/2014 9:10 PM

Oh! My fault. It took a little searching, but I was able to find the source containing that which your comment seemed very similar.

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#50
In reply to #30

Re: Major Astrophysics Update Coming

08/04/2014 4:44 AM

Now you would have to translate that for me!

Is it getting warmer in your scenario?

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#17
In reply to #5

Re: Major Astrophysics Update Coming

03/17/2014 10:08 AM

Are you suggesting we need to develope universe warming to prevent global warming?

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#8

Re: Major Astrophysics Update Coming

03/17/2014 12:06 AM

I think it will be that computer models show that recently detected gravitational wave patterns, confirm that during the period now thought of as the expansion, that physical laws were different, proving that another dimension of higher energy exists, that collided with this dimension, causing the tremendous influx of energy that was the creation of this universe.....thus proving Brane theory...

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#10

Re: Major Astrophysics Update Coming

03/17/2014 7:42 AM

... 42.

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#13
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Re: Major Astrophysics Update Coming

03/17/2014 8:10 AM

And they did this without Deep Thought.

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#14

Re: Major Astrophysics Update Coming

03/17/2014 9:09 AM

Wake me up when it gets here.

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#15
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Re: Major Astrophysics Update Coming

03/17/2014 9:12 AM

Are you sure?

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#16
In reply to #15

Re: Major Astrophysics Update Coming

03/17/2014 9:16 AM

You're right. Never mind that, just leave a message.

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#19
In reply to #16

Re: Major Astrophysics Update Coming

03/17/2014 12:26 PM

Are you feeling a tingling in your legs now?

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#23
In reply to #19

Re: Major Astrophysics Update Coming

03/17/2014 1:38 PM

Yes, I am. I'd have liked to see it when it was marble sized.

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#18

Re: Major Astrophysics Update Coming

03/17/2014 11:09 AM

ripples in space and time

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#20

Update

03/17/2014 12:49 PM

Here is a link to the latest from Harvard University on their discovery.

The discovery basically provides strong direct evidence for cosmic inflation at the very beginning of the Big Bang and strong evidence of gravity waves, another predicted theory that has been hard sought by physicists.

The site is hard to get to right now due to the network traffic. Links are provided to the actual technical papers for those willing.

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#21

Re: Major Astrophysics Update Coming

03/17/2014 12:51 PM

Too many free radicals, that's what caused the inflammation, no matter what they say!

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#22
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Re: Major Astrophysics Update Coming

03/17/2014 12:56 PM

Actually it was this image that proved that the universe's inflammation was caused by cat scratch fever! Dell can explain further.

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#24

Re: Major Astrophysics Update Coming

03/17/2014 1:42 PM
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#25

Re: Major Astrophysics Update Coming

03/18/2014 4:10 AM
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#31

Re: Major Astrophysics Update Coming

03/19/2014 8:56 AM

I'm trying to follow along.

Before the big bang, nothing existed anywhere, except a little ball of matter that was floating in nothingness. All of a sudden, the little ball exploded, and over time, the matter from the little ball created the entire universe and everything in it.

Right?

Where did the little ball come from? It must have been really heavy!

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#32
In reply to #31

Re: Major Astrophysics Update Coming

03/19/2014 9:49 AM

Where did the little ball come from? It must have been really heavy!

Infinitely so...but the ancients inform us that: "In the beginning was the Word, and the word was God"..so what caused the infinitely small and dense singularity to burst forth?

Begins to look like a formula to me...referred to by the ancients as the "Name of God", and handed down through the ages as the source of all power.

Since we accept that mathematics is the universal language, it begs the question:

Did Einstein miss something? Maybe E=Mc² is not the end of the matter (no pun intended), but the beginning of the matter.

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#33
In reply to #32

Re: Major Astrophysics Update Coming

03/19/2014 10:34 AM

Yep. I just posted a link on Dark energy, on the consciousness thread. I think Doorman's Chick may have a masochistic streak.

I think all of the answers are beyond human comprehension, but it's cool to continue to get closer.

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#38
In reply to #33

Re: Major Astrophysics Update Coming

03/22/2014 1:14 AM

"I think Doorman's Chick may have a masochistic streak."

No kramarat, didn't you hear, I'm a new age crap slinging crystal hugger!

I am however not against a little spankin' while enjoying a pony ride

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#39
In reply to #38

Re: Major Astrophysics Update Coming

03/22/2014 4:38 AM

It would be great if we could post theme music to accompany comments.

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#44
In reply to #39

Re: Major Astrophysics Update Coming

03/22/2014 8:14 AM

That's too funny!

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#34
In reply to #31

Re: Major Astrophysics Update Coming

03/19/2014 12:36 PM

Not necessarily.

We can only peer back into the cosmos to about 150-500 million years after the big bang or after the Dark Ages where baryonic matter has just condensed and the cosmic fog lifted.

The time prior to that is inferred from studies performed in labs with particle accelerators or indirect observations made of the cosmos. The recent announcement concerning the cosmic inflationary period or epoch and gravity waves is an example of the latter.

That type of research has given us a good glimpse of what things were like about 10^32 seconds after T0, but not much earlier than that.

What was happening prior to T0 is pure speculation with absolutely no scientific evidence or experiment to support it.

M-Theory proposes some possibilities, but M-Theory, String Theory and its derivatives are also unproven theories, despite the huge amount of work that has gone into constructing a logical theory.

Without scientific evidence to support it, everything at the time of T0 and before (which is a totally abstract term) is pure conjecture. You can just as well claim that the legend that the universe was sneezed out of the nose of the Great Green Arkleseizure is as valid as the hand of God.

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#35
In reply to #31

Re: Major Astrophysics Update Coming

03/20/2014 5:49 PM

Finally! Absolute proof of the existence of God - only God would have been able to lift this marble and put it in place. I hope I never see the universe that small, since everything would collapse, including me as well as stretch infinitely to the center of this giga-massive black hole. (that is about a billion time a super-massive in my book), but someone would still say billions and billions.

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#36
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Re: Major Astrophysics Update Coming

03/20/2014 6:39 PM

I just came across something this morning about galaxies moving faster than light...which would screw up everything we think we know.

I didn't dabble on the site. I've got enough on my plate at the moment.

I don't have the IQ or the patience to get into it.

http://akorra.com/2012/05/30/top-10-things-faster-than-light-2/

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#37
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Re: Major Astrophysics Update Coming

03/20/2014 7:25 PM

Not true. I read it and it really doesn't state that at all and I don't think the author understand General Relativity either.

Now the universe is larger than 14 billion light years in diameter, so there is a "horizon" to the universe that we can not see beyond because light from beyond that horizon simply has not had enough time to transverse that distance.

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#40
In reply to #37

Re: Major Astrophysics Update Coming

03/22/2014 6:28 AM

Yeah. I didn't spend more than 15 seconds on the original site that I saw.

Something like that would be huge news that would be everywhere.

------------

Good one DMC.

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#41
In reply to #40

Re: Major Astrophysics Update Coming

03/22/2014 6:59 AM

Your post raises a couple questions that I hope you will be generous enough to entertain and respond to:

.

1. What is the rational of posting links here to pages that you didn't personally find interesting enough to 'spend more than 15 seconds on'? Doesn't it take you at least 15 seconds to post such a message, thereby doubling the time you've spent related to something you didn't think worthy of spending more than 15 seconds on? Doesn't it seem a little disrespectful of the other CR4 members, or at least indicative that you don't expect much value from your own comments, to be recommending links that you don't feel are worth your own time to read?

.

2. Why are you so quick to accede to the probable untruth of the ideas presented in the link you provided (presumably because you accept it is contrary to what has been scientifically verified), when similar problems with other subjects lead you to claim that science is being short sighted and ignoring larger (if not well substantiated) truths?

.

3. What if someone were to claim that non-scientifically verifiable valuable truths about the universe are expressly detailed in this, and as such it should be considered a religious 'text' and should not be ridiculed by scientists who fear it and claim that there is no utility therein greater than any other similar media expression?

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#42
In reply to #41

Re: Major Astrophysics Update Coming

03/22/2014 7:13 AM

I obviously don't have the time that you do, captain.

My response was to AH, and since I couldn't find the original link that I was talking about, I posted one that presented the same idea.

Since I was responding to AH, and he was able to understand the gist, I'm satisfied.

You are welcome to explore any subtle hidden meanings or agendas until your heart's content.

Let me know what you come up with.

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#43
In reply to #42

Re: Major Astrophysics Update Coming

03/22/2014 7:19 AM

My bad. I mistook your private message for an open comment in an active discussion. Odd.

.

I understand being busy and having priorities. When you get caught up with your backlog of recommending links you don't personally find worthy of reading, perhaps you will consider addressing those questions.

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#45
In reply to #43

Re: Major Astrophysics Update Coming

03/22/2014 8:30 AM

I don't remember what my PM response to you was. I'll see if I still have it.

It was about the speed of light?

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#46

Re: Major Astrophysics Update Coming

03/22/2014 3:09 PM

So I think we are in a paradox. But sometimes old people (me) just get rattled trying to get there heads around something they do not fully understand. If the edge or horizon of the universe that can be detected is 13.8 billion light years away, and we have proven now that the universe expanded, at least for an initial instant, at a rate greater than the speed of light, the question that begs answering is how did that initial expansion slow down? Or is it still slowing down? Then we would have a slowing inflation. But the Hubble shift indicates expansion at an accelerating rate. Cooling alone does not seem a viable answer once we are the horizon.

And, a secondary question; if the horizon of the universe is 13.8 as detected, is the real universe really much larger by a factor of two (much more if rapid expansion still happens beyond the horizon)? If it took 13.8 million years for the horizon to be detected, then the universe if inflating would have also expanded that much further into space. Tell me if I am out to lunch or am I looking at the expansion wrong. Jorrie where are you?

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#47
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Re: Major Astrophysics Update Coming

03/22/2014 3:38 PM

This kind of thing gets me tripped up sometimes, and there are certainly people who understand this subject far better than me, but perhaps if I am coming from a similar place of trying to wrap my head around it, some of the things that work for me might be helpful to you (and I'll be happy if someone in the know points out anything I myself misunderstand).

.

So the light we see has been traveling for at most for around 13.5 Billion years (things were relatively opaque for a while in the beginning). Since space has been expanding, at seemingly different rates since then, the likely location of things that we receive light 13.5 Billion years old from, could be as far as 45 billion light years distant at this time.

.

That suggests the stuff we have light record of going back 13.5 billion years could now be a sphere with a diameter of up to 90 billion light years.

.

As I understand it that calculation about the current size based on our reception of ancient light does not limit the possible size of the universe. There may be vast unknowable portions of the universe, expanding too fast, too far away for any information/knowledge to make the transit.

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#48
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Re: Major Astrophysics Update Coming

03/22/2014 4:24 PM

Thanks for the post but I remain befuddled.

the likely location of things that we receive light 13.5 Billion years old from, could be as far as 45 billion light years distant at this time.

I was assuming the beginning of time(T) in our universe was 13.5 billion years or thereabouts. Are we now to assume time T=0 at 45 billion years ago. That time you indicate may be much larger and in fact infinite if we were to assume the instant expansion of the big bang was much much greater than c. Think 5c or even cc. Pick any facto of c. Do the new findings have any revelations about how fast the instant expansion would have been? If the universe is infinite, then what happens to all those multi-universe hypotheses? It seems to me that time and distance now become infinite in our universe. It also seems our measure of time (13.5 billion years) is only relative to our position. Can you shine a light out beyond the horizon? How about if we were out beyond it?

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#49
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Re: Major Astrophysics Update Coming

03/22/2014 5:37 PM

No, the age is a little over 13.5 billion years.

.

Because things have been moving apart at great speeds, things that were at the right distance 13.5 billion years ago for light to reach us (here and now), are currently much farther away. We can't see those things where they are now for a very long time, or possibly ever.

.

The horizon you describe isn't a limit beyond which there isn't anything, it is really a time before which the universe owas pretty much opaque.

.

As far as I know, there isn't a boundary or crust to the universe beyond which it isn't. I don't think that necessarily is restricted to schemes in which the universe is infinite either.

.

I don't think finiteness or infiniteness precludes multiverses, though I believe multiverses are not necessarily part of the most central current theory, but someone more well versed than I am really should comment on this.

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