Previous in Forum: Major Astrophysics Update Coming   Next in Forum: What Was In The Malaysian Plane´s Hold?
Close
Close
Close
55 comments
Active Contributor

Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Doorman's House
Posts: 24

New Study: Every Black Hole Contains Another Universe

03/17/2014 8:26 PM

In modern science, the prevailing opinion supposes that whatever falls into a black hole disappears forever and breaks apart into the component parts. However, a new theory states that black holes do not destroy the matter but rather are a kind of exit gate which lead to other universes just like our own.

Continue reading here...

__________________
Live with a dream in the heart, and then let the mind figure out how to do it.
Reply
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.

Comments rated to be Good Answers:

These comments received enough positive ratings to make them "good answers".

Comments rated to be "almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, rate them!
Guru

Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 7045
Good Answers: 206
#1

Re: New Study: Every Black Hole Contains Another Universe

03/17/2014 8:54 PM

balony

Reply
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: at the beach in Florida
Posts: 30838
Good Answers: 1723
#2

Re: New Study: Every Black Hole Contains Another Universe

03/17/2014 9:01 PM

New age crap...stick to your crystals....

__________________
Break a sweat everyday doing something you enjoy
Reply
Guru
Hobbies - DIY Welding - Don't Know What Made The Old Title Attractive... Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member United States - US - Statue of Liberty - 60 Year Member

Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Yellowstone Valley, in Big Sky Country
Posts: 6954
Good Answers: 282
#5
In reply to #2

Re: New Study: Every Black Hole Contains Another Universe

03/17/2014 9:23 PM

Jorge Pullin, Rodolfo Gambini, and Nikodem Poplawski are turning out new age crap?

National Geographic doesn't think so.

__________________
When you come to a fork in the road, take it. (Yogiism)
Reply
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: at the beach in Florida
Posts: 30838
Good Answers: 1723
#9
In reply to #5

Re: New Study: Every Black Hole Contains Another Universe

03/17/2014 10:54 PM

Not the theory, the website....The theory is well, just another theory....

__________________
Break a sweat everyday doing something you enjoy
Reply
Guru

Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: South of Minot North Dakota
Posts: 8378
Good Answers: 774
#3

Re: New Study: Every Black Hole Contains Another Universe

03/17/2014 9:02 PM

So the reason our universe appears to be growing could be because we are in the bottom of some black hole and someone keeps dumping their trash in it?

Reply
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: at the beach in Florida
Posts: 30838
Good Answers: 1723
#4
In reply to #3

Re: New Study: Every Black Hole Contains Another Universe

03/17/2014 9:18 PM

OK, now that makes sense.....lol

__________________
Break a sweat everyday doing something you enjoy
Reply
Guru
Safety - Hazmat - New Member United States - US - Statue of Liberty - New Member Engineering Fields - Chemical Engineering - Old Hand

Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Lubbock, Texas
Posts: 14331
Good Answers: 161
#26
In reply to #3

Re: New Study: Every Black Hole Contains Another Universe

03/19/2014 9:43 AM

Your cheery outlook is always heartening to me! Must be colder than heck in Minot this morning. Cold in Lubbock too. Quit sending your excess cold air this way, OK bud?

__________________
If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Just build a better one.
Reply
Guru

Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 1869
Good Answers: 67
#38
In reply to #3

Re: New Study: Every Black Hole Contains Another Universe

04/22/2014 6:42 PM

Not quite, but close. Walmart keeps opening more stores.

Reply
Guru

Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 1022
Good Answers: 86
#6

Re: New Study: Every Black Hole Contains Another Universe

03/17/2014 9:59 PM

"Study" is not the right word. It cannot be studied, only claimed and theorized, and as such, it may "explain" a thing or two but generates questions on exponential scale. That exact same thing can be done with a bunch of other arbitary theories. So why I should chose this one and build on it? S.M.

__________________
Life is complex. It has a real part and an imaginary part.
Reply
Guru
New Zealand - Member - Kiwi Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member Engineering Fields - Power Engineering - New Member Engineering Fields - Electrical Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Posts: 8778
Good Answers: 376
#7

Re: New Study: Every Black Hole Contains Another Universe

03/17/2014 10:32 PM

From what I can see this is just an unproven theory based on numerous hollywood movie plots (which again are not evidence of proof) and little else.

__________________
jack of all trades
Reply
Guru
Technical Fields - Technical Writing - New Member Engineering Fields - Piping Design Engineering - New Member

Join Date: May 2009
Location: Richland, WA, USA
Posts: 20963
Good Answers: 780
#8

Re: New Study: Every Black Hole Contains Another Universe

03/17/2014 10:43 PM

How about that rectangular black hole in 2001: A Space Odyssey?

__________________
In vino veritas; in cervisia carmen; in aqua E. coli.
Reply
Guru
Popular Science - Evolution - New Member Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member

Join Date: May 2006
Location: The 'Space Coast', USA
Posts: 11112
Good Answers: 918
#10

Re: New Study: Every Black Hole Contains Another Universe

03/17/2014 11:01 PM

Not a new theory and not one that holds any proverbial water.

If there are so many exit points in our universe to another universe or universes, why are there no known entry points into ours?

Particularly if they are, as you say, like our own, they would have similar laws of physics. Where do their black holes lead? Why is this universe so devoid of these entry gates?

Lastly, if the matter escapes out of our universe, then why do black holes' event horizons get larger (as with their gravitational power) as more and more mass is drawn in?

If the mass or a portion of the total acquired mass was transferred out of this universe the event horizon size and gravitational magnitude of the black hole would be non linear with respect to the amount of mass acquired.

Black holes seem to have an upper boundary limit somewhere near 10 billon solar masses. There are multiple reasons why this is so and it would seem to nix the idea that another universe's black hole would grow to be so much bigger as to account for the total mass in our known universe. Unless there is some other mechanism to derive mass or energy out of what is essentially nothing (10 billion solar masses being virtually zero mass compared to the whole universe), I don't see how this theory is feasible.

Reply
Guru
Engineering Fields - Electrical Engineering - Been there, done that. Engineering Fields - Control Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Long Island NY
Posts: 15090
Good Answers: 934
#11

Re: New Study: Every Black Hole Contains Another Universe

03/17/2014 11:12 PM

Yes, one of the earliest proposed multi-verse theories is that a black hole in one universe is a white hole in another universe. If my memory is correct this theory is no longer considered correct. I think a pivotal flaw was the large number of black holes found in our universe and the few to zero white holes observed in this universe.

__________________
"Don't disturb my circles." translation of Archimedes last words
Reply
Guru
Technical Fields - Technical Writing - New Member Engineering Fields - Piping Design Engineering - New Member

Join Date: May 2009
Location: Richland, WA, USA
Posts: 20963
Good Answers: 780
#12
In reply to #11

Re: New Study: Every Black Hole Contains Another Universe

03/18/2014 12:13 AM

Aha! 4001: A Space Oddity can be built around this plot device. (Too bad titles can't be copyrighted.)

[Credit to Mad Magazine]

__________________
In vino veritas; in cervisia carmen; in aqua E. coli.
Reply
Guru
Popular Science - Evolution - New Member Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member

Join Date: May 2006
Location: The 'Space Coast', USA
Posts: 11112
Good Answers: 918
#14
In reply to #11

Re: New Study: Every Black Hole Contains Another Universe

03/18/2014 8:34 AM

I think that number is zero.

Long ago it was proposed that quasars (the astronomical event, not the TV) were actually white holes, but that has long since been debunked.

Reply
Guru
Engineering Fields - Electrical Engineering - Been there, done that. Engineering Fields - Control Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Long Island NY
Posts: 15090
Good Answers: 934
#15
In reply to #14

Re: New Study: Every Black Hole Contains Another Universe

03/18/2014 9:53 AM

Yes, at one time quasars were thought to be white holes. I believe the number of observed white holes to be zero, too. I only dabble in astrophysics. So I, like you, used a qualifier to the number of observed white holes to be zero.

__________________
"Don't disturb my circles." translation of Archimedes last words
Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru
Popular Science - Evolution - New Member Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member

Join Date: May 2006
Location: The 'Space Coast', USA
Posts: 11112
Good Answers: 918
#16
In reply to #15

Re: New Study: Every Black Hole Contains Another Universe

03/18/2014 1:53 PM

A fellow alma mater of the CYA University, I see. :)

Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Out of your mind! Not in sight!
Posts: 4425
Good Answers: 107
#13

Re: New Study: Every Black Hole Contains Another Universe

03/18/2014 3:29 AM

How hard is it to imagine that it is actually linked to our own universe? No need to make lots more up when we can't even explain fully the one that we are in. So the entry point is at the beginning of time or in every stars centre or in the galaxie centres.

__________________
Common Sense Dictates
Reply
Power-User

Join Date: May 2011
Location: Chapel Hill, NC (sometimes Otago NZ)
Posts: 120
Good Answers: 1
#17

Re: New Study: Every Black Hole Contains Another Universe

03/18/2014 10:43 PM

It has been known for some time, but continually forgotten that black holes never truly form singularities much less event horizons. This is ignored by those who want to pretend physics is just a bunch of freewheeling math. I wrote a paper on this recently. My little contribution is that the volume of a black hole is actually well defined. http://arxiv.org/abs/1402.1524

Reply
Guru
Popular Science - Evolution - New Member Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member

Join Date: May 2006
Location: The 'Space Coast', USA
Posts: 11112
Good Answers: 918
#18
In reply to #17

Re: New Study: Every Black Hole Contains Another Universe

03/18/2014 11:12 PM

Thanks for your link.

I will need some time before I can sit down and really digest this, but I hope you will hang around long enough for a few questions.

Reply
Power-User

Join Date: May 2011
Location: Chapel Hill, NC (sometimes Otago NZ)
Posts: 120
Good Answers: 1
#19
In reply to #17

Re: New Study: Every Black Hole Contains Another Universe

03/19/2014 12:03 AM

I should have said "don't form event horizons much less singularities." For outside observers the infalling matter stalls out due to the slowing clocks due to the increased gravitation.

Reply
Guru
Popular Science - Evolution - New Member Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member

Join Date: May 2006
Location: The 'Space Coast', USA
Posts: 11112
Good Answers: 918
#23
In reply to #19

Re: New Study: Every Black Hole Contains Another Universe

03/19/2014 8:41 AM

Excuse my ignorance, but a few questions.

First, the definition of an event horizon is a "boundary" at which point nothing escapes.

So, what is wrong with this definition? I am thinking that what we have is a threshold where time/space becomes so severely distorted that it appears as nothing escapes because it takes virtually an infinite amount of time to transverse any meaningful distance beyond that threshold.

Second, there would seem to at least be some form of matter core at the "center" of a black holes because "something" had to act as a seed to initiate the process where a black hole forms.

I still have not read your position paper, but I am wondering if the crux of your position is that as a black hole forms the resulting time/space distortions actually prohibit the formation of a singularity.

Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Power-User

Join Date: May 2011
Location: Chapel Hill, NC (sometimes Otago NZ)
Posts: 120
Good Answers: 1
#27
In reply to #23

Re: New Study: Every Black Hole Contains Another Universe

03/19/2014 9:55 AM

The problem is that the infalling particles never make it there. There are exact solutions in GR where singularities exist and horizons exist but you have to get there from states where they don't. Hawking wrote a big book on this once that is considered to be full of holes. There is the time measured by an infalling observer and time measured by those on the outside. The time for the observer to reach the center is finite from his perspective. It is infinite for him to even reach the horizon from the perspective of those on the outside. We are on the outside. Therefore it never happens.

The horizon is a spheroidal shell that supposedly forms as the matter falls in. One gets asymptotically close to it forming but it never does.

Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Guru
Popular Science - Evolution - New Member Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member

Join Date: May 2006
Location: The 'Space Coast', USA
Posts: 11112
Good Answers: 918
#31
In reply to #27

Re: New Study: Every Black Hole Contains Another Universe

03/19/2014 10:05 AM

I would consider it a spheroidal threshold where matter or energy will not reemerge from; a limit or in math, an asymptote.

It is also dynamic in that its radius changes with the total sum mass of the black hole.

Reply
Power-User

Join Date: May 2011
Location: Chapel Hill, NC (sometimes Otago NZ)
Posts: 120
Good Answers: 1
#34
In reply to #31

Re: New Study: Every Black Hole Contains Another Universe

03/19/2014 10:10 AM

People generally consider the radius of a black hole to be undefined, even though they assign a value "R" to it. The reason is that when they integrate the radius they get different values based on the kinds of interior solutions they use. If you rule out the singular solutions as unphysical the radius does become well defined but is not a simple function of the mass alone in that it depends on the history of the holes formation.

Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Power-User

Join Date: May 2011
Location: Chapel Hill, NC (sometimes Otago NZ)
Posts: 120
Good Answers: 1
#28
In reply to #23

Re: New Study: Every Black Hole Contains Another Universe

03/19/2014 9:58 AM

Consider an infalling thin shell of material. It stalls as the horizons starts to form. There is nothing but flat space on the interior. If you have a more realistic case of a star then the whole interior can be in such a stalled out state, sort of like having many layers of event horizons like an onion. In each case, there is no singular matter density anywhere.

Reply
Guru
Popular Science - Evolution - New Member Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member

Join Date: May 2006
Location: The 'Space Coast', USA
Posts: 11112
Good Answers: 918
#33
In reply to #28

Re: New Study: Every Black Hole Contains Another Universe

03/19/2014 10:09 AM

I think I am starting to grasp your position. When I get some of my workload off my back in a few days I want to read your paper in detail.

From a cursory look it appears to converge with recent announcements made by Steven Hawkins where he is reformulating his stand on black holes.

Reply
Guru

Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 1869
Good Answers: 67
#45
In reply to #28

Re: New Study: Every Black Hole Contains Another Universe

04/22/2014 9:28 PM

Neglecting for a moment infalling matter from outside an already-formed 'horizon,' what of the matter already within the region enclosed by the horizon as it begins to form? The core of a Type II supernova as it undergoes gravitational collapse, for instance? What of it? Those many layers, like an onion? How can this be? Is this situation real or is this a mathematical artifact?

Reply
Power-User

Join Date: May 2011
Location: Chapel Hill, NC (sometimes Otago NZ)
Posts: 120
Good Answers: 1
#49
In reply to #45

Re: New Study: Every Black Hole Contains Another Universe

04/22/2014 11:55 PM

The mathematical artifacts are the singular GR solutions. These were the first found at a time when exact analytic solutions were the only way to approach such problems. It was not recognized immediately that these have unphysical assumptions built in. Even for linear pdes with harmonic solutions, there can be many awful surprises that can hide at infinity. For nonlinear difficult GR, the subtleties are much worse.

One can best think of such a supernova as a stalling out infalling collection of matter that has a record of the material, temperature, pressure etc of it frozen for all external observer time in a finite ball. At least until it meets other such matter.

Reply
Guru

Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 1869
Good Answers: 67
#50
In reply to #49

Re: New Study: Every Black Hole Contains Another Universe

04/23/2014 12:15 AM

Thanks. I've downloaded your paper (it took half an hour. I'm in a remote valley in the Colorado Rockies and my bandwidth here is comparable to smoke signals).

Let me read your paper and I'll get back with you. Meanwhile, if you haven't met him yet, there's a member here who goes by 'Jorrie.' Sharp fellow. You'll like him and have a lot to discuss.

Thanks in advance for your patience. :)

-e2

Reply
Guru

Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 1869
Good Answers: 67
#46
In reply to #28

Re: New Study: Every Black Hole Contains Another Universe

04/22/2014 9:48 PM

These various horizons form due to matter collapsing at different rates, each stalling-out as it's horizon begins to form? What of the order in which they form? Outside-in? Is there an order of formation?

Reply
Power-User

Join Date: May 2011
Location: Chapel Hill, NC (sometimes Otago NZ)
Posts: 120
Good Answers: 1
#48
In reply to #46

Re: New Study: Every Black Hole Contains Another Universe

04/22/2014 11:45 PM

If the light cones ever over-tilt so that a horizon forms you have introduced a kind of transfinite time for the external observers. This is why such solutions are unphysical. The physical solutions must tend to asymptotic metric degeneracy from the inside out. Ultimately, the outermost infalling layer fixes that the interior of it be "time frozen" in whatever history it was created. There are many possible coordinate solutions for the star but this set of solutions is the demarcation of the boundary that presumes no transfinite evolution for the exterior observers.

This requires some elaboration but it is not so easy. This notion of "time frozen" does not mean the black hole cannot translate or rotate, just that the light cones tend to degeneracy and asymptotically halt any inwards tilting that would casually disconnect them from the exterior points. Numerical evolution of such a state becomes ill-conditioned if one uses the metric as a variable but there are functions of the the metric that are suitable.

Reply
Power-User

Join Date: May 2011
Location: Chapel Hill, NC (sometimes Otago NZ)
Posts: 120
Good Answers: 1
#30
In reply to #23

Re: New Study: Every Black Hole Contains Another Universe

03/19/2014 10:00 AM

I gave you a "good answer" for being a good question. More questions like that and physics would have less fantastical unprovable rubbish in it.

Reply
Guru
Popular Science - Evolution - New Member Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member

Join Date: May 2006
Location: The 'Space Coast', USA
Posts: 11112
Good Answers: 918
#32
In reply to #30

Re: New Study: Every Black Hole Contains Another Universe

03/19/2014 10:07 AM

Thanks. I am just an armchair astrophysicist with a lot to learn, but I am also very curious about the subject.

I appreciate your input and taking the time to educate.

Reply
Guru
Engineering Fields - Electrical Engineering - New Member Fans of Old Computers - Commodore 64 - New Member Popular Science - Evolution - New Member United States - Member - New Member

Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Illinois, 7 county region (The 'blue dot' that drags the rest of the 'red state' around during presidential elections.)
Posts: 3688
Good Answers: 89
#36
In reply to #23

Re: New Study: Every Black Hole Contains Another Universe

03/19/2014 10:32 AM

The lack of a 'boundary' is based on the theory of an observer dropping towards the black hole.

Observer A (who is dropping towards the black hole, never experiences a 'threshold' to cross, never shifts from seeing this black object in the universe to seeing the blackness all around him like passing through a curtain. He would not even experience any change in the 'brightness' of the universe as space-time warps around him, since the photons in his vicinity are experiencing the same space-time shift.

Observer B, on the ship orbiting the black hole from a safe distance, would see observer A fall to the black hole, and then move slower and slower as Observer A moves deeper into the distorted space-time. There would be a point where Observer B would conclude that Observer A has 'stopped moving,' but in fact Observer A is still moving, although very slowly.

__________________
( The opinions espressed in this post may not reflect the true opinions of the poster, and may not reflect commonly accepted versions of reality. ) (If you are wondering: yes, I DO hope to live to be as old as my jokes.)
Reply
Anonymous Poster #1
#20

Re: New Study: Every Black Hole Contains Another Universe

03/19/2014 7:02 AM
Reply
Anonymous Poster #2
#22
In reply to #20

Re: New Study: Every Black Hole Contains Another Universe

03/19/2014 8:18 AM

Possibly his mama served opium jar as family dinner by mistake. Please keep that @#$%#&*$ away from engineering forums....

Reply
Commentator

Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 85
Good Answers: 2
#21

Re: New Study: Every Black Hole Contains Another Universe

03/19/2014 7:18 AM

Within our universe we have black holes. Within the black hole we another universe ... within that universe again another black hole... It goes on and on...

Surely there seem to be a hole in this theory.

Reply
Guru
Popular Science - Evolution - New Member Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member

Join Date: May 2006
Location: The 'Space Coast', USA
Posts: 11112
Good Answers: 918
#24
In reply to #21

Re: New Study: Every Black Hole Contains Another Universe

03/19/2014 8:46 AM

If that were true the second universe would have to be a very small one, at least from the prospective of its possible total mass/energy.

Forming subsequent sub-universes would be quickly further challenged with insufficient mass/energy to even form that secondary or tertiary black hole.

That's the hole in the theory I see. :-)

Reply
Guru
Engineering Fields - Electrical Engineering - New Member Fans of Old Computers - Commodore 64 - New Member Popular Science - Evolution - New Member United States - Member - New Member

Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Illinois, 7 county region (The 'blue dot' that drags the rest of the 'red state' around during presidential elections.)
Posts: 3688
Good Answers: 89
#25
In reply to #24

Re: New Study: Every Black Hole Contains Another Universe

03/19/2014 9:29 AM

I guess that all depends on how far 'down the rabbit hole' we are.

If we're near the top, then yes, the theory doesn't hold up well.

If, however, we are near the bottom of a long chain of black hole universes, each one more massive than the one below it as our universe is to a typical black hole, then it makes a lot more sense, especially to the inhabitants of the universes above us.

Or perhaps my ideas just suck as hard as a black hole in cartoons.

__________________
( The opinions espressed in this post may not reflect the true opinions of the poster, and may not reflect commonly accepted versions of reality. ) (If you are wondering: yes, I DO hope to live to be as old as my jokes.)
Reply
Guru
Popular Science - Evolution - New Member Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member

Join Date: May 2006
Location: The 'Space Coast', USA
Posts: 11112
Good Answers: 918
#29
In reply to #25

Re: New Study: Every Black Hole Contains Another Universe

03/19/2014 9:59 AM

How do you get more mass in the subsequent next universe than what is in the black hole from which is sprang?

For example, if a black hole has 30 solar masses, how can the universe inside that black hole contain more mass than 30 solar masses?

Additionally, the lower limit for a black hole to form is 3.8 solar masses.

Reply
Guru
Engineering Fields - Electrical Engineering - New Member Fans of Old Computers - Commodore 64 - New Member Popular Science - Evolution - New Member United States - Member - New Member

Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Illinois, 7 county region (The 'blue dot' that drags the rest of the 'red state' around during presidential elections.)
Posts: 3688
Good Answers: 89
#35
In reply to #29

Re: New Study: Every Black Hole Contains Another Universe

03/19/2014 10:19 AM

Simple, In the universe 'upstairs' from us, the laws of physics are such that their stars are MUCH more massive, and our universe is only 5 or so 'solar masses' to them. And the universe 'upstairs from them is even more massive, with evel larger stars.

Or I could just be playing Devil's Advocate here, leading you down a spiral of thinking as twisted as a fractured fractal.

__________________
( The opinions espressed in this post may not reflect the true opinions of the poster, and may not reflect commonly accepted versions of reality. ) (If you are wondering: yes, I DO hope to live to be as old as my jokes.)
Reply
Guru
Popular Science - Evolution - New Member Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member

Join Date: May 2006
Location: The 'Space Coast', USA
Posts: 11112
Good Answers: 918
#37
In reply to #35

Re: New Study: Every Black Hole Contains Another Universe

03/19/2014 12:44 PM

I think there is more to hang your hat on with the multiverse theories derived from M-Theory rather than a set of cascading universes.

However, I caution that even M-Theory is pure conjecture. It may be a very well laid out theory with rigorous mathematics to bind it all together, but nothing of the theory is yet provable (or disprovable), so one has to be careful about stating anything absolute with respect to its authenticity.

Our understanding of black holes is simply unfinished. As we go further I think we will be able to reconcile the functionality of black holes and we will find that they live and operate under the same set of physical laws that everything else does in the universe.

Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Guru

Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 1011
Good Answers: 25
#39

Re: New Study: Every Black Hole Contains Another Universe

04/22/2014 6:47 PM

The universe has no center and no edge. Everything that happens, happens within the universe. It is incomparable as it has no partner. It is immeasurable and can never stop or deteriorate. It is endowed with eternal motion. Its condition can not be discerned or its mysteries discovered by observing our microcosm of it. We are like foolish children at the beach trying to put the ocean in our cups.

Kuduk

Reply
Guru

Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 1869
Good Answers: 67
#40
In reply to #39

Re: New Study: Every Black Hole Contains Another Universe

04/22/2014 6:57 PM

If its condition cannot be discerned nor its mysteries discovered by observing our microcosm of it, then on what are you basing your claims?

Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Guru
Engineering Fields - Electrical Engineering - Been there, done that. Engineering Fields - Control Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Long Island NY
Posts: 15090
Good Answers: 934
#41
In reply to #40

Re: New Study: Every Black Hole Contains Another Universe

04/22/2014 7:14 PM

I like circular reasoning. All of the paths look familiar. That's why I like them.

__________________
"Don't disturb my circles." translation of Archimedes last words
Reply
Guru

Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 1869
Good Answers: 67
#42
In reply to #40

Re: New Study: Every Black Hole Contains Another Universe

04/22/2014 7:22 PM

For some reason Kudzu's statement reminds me of an email our ex-department-secretary sent once. It ended with:

"Let me know if you don't receive this email."

Reply
Guru

Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 1011
Good Answers: 25
#43
In reply to #40

Re: New Study: Every Black Hole Contains Another Universe

04/22/2014 7:55 PM

I pretty much base it on the idea that we who live in a limited environment have no way to discern what actually exists outside of our cave that we call the universe.

Kuduk

Reply
Guru

Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 1869
Good Answers: 67
#44
In reply to #43

Re: New Study: Every Black Hole Contains Another Universe

04/22/2014 8:06 PM

Without observation how can you know it's limited? And furthermore, in direct contradiction of your first statement, you are now suggesting the 'cave that we call the universe' has an outside.

You know all this ... how?

Reply
Guru

Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 1011
Good Answers: 25
#55
In reply to #44

Re: New Study: Every Black Hole Contains Another Universe

04/24/2014 6:06 PM

"Without observation how can you know it's limited? And furthermore, in direct contradiction of your first statement, you are now suggesting the 'cave that we call the universe' has an outside."

Observation is limited...that's why certain scientists claim the Universe is a certian age or limited in some way. They have created a theoretical "cave" by these limitations they placed on themselves.

Kuduk

Reply
Guru

Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 1011
Good Answers: 25
#52
In reply to #40

Re: New Study: Every Black Hole Contains Another Universe

04/24/2014 4:33 PM

The same information that others base their claims on.

Kuduk

Reply
Guru

Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 1869
Good Answers: 67
#53
In reply to #52

Re: New Study: Every Black Hole Contains Another Universe

04/24/2014 5:17 PM

Which you thoroughly discounted in your initial post...

Reply
Guru

Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 1011
Good Answers: 25
#54
In reply to #53

Re: New Study: Every Black Hole Contains Another Universe

04/24/2014 5:54 PM

Actually I was thinking it was the lack of information.

It goes along with dark matter and magnetic lines of force and all those other fantasies used to quantify things. The dark matter theory is to prevent the sky from falling for people who think there is nothing beyond their field of vision to keep the balance in the known part of the Universe. Like Jello that holds the bits of fruit in place.

Ku-duk

Reply
2
Guru
Engineering Fields - Electrical Engineering - New Member Fans of Old Computers - Commodore 64 - New Member Popular Science - Evolution - New Member United States - Member - New Member

Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Illinois, 7 county region (The 'blue dot' that drags the rest of the 'red state' around during presidential elections.)
Posts: 3688
Good Answers: 89
#51
In reply to #39

Re: New Study: Every Black Hole Contains Another Universe

04/23/2014 9:22 AM

Your description does not quite fir a universe of physical laws, what you are describing actually is an 'unknown and unknowable' deity. I do not refute or disparage your beliefs or opinions, but as this is an Engineering forum, these statements are difficult to fit into the general narratives of the thread. Perhaps there is a Philosophy forum that can provide the proper debate and discussion your assertions require.

Science and Engineering deal only with what can be observed and measured. If we can observe something and not measure it, we will strive to determine what we need to know to be able to measure it. Anything truly 'immeasurable' is not part of the world of Science, it is in the world of the Supernatural and Paranormal ('beyond' natural and 'contrary to' normal).

__________________
( The opinions espressed in this post may not reflect the true opinions of the poster, and may not reflect commonly accepted versions of reality. ) (If you are wondering: yes, I DO hope to live to be as old as my jokes.)
Reply Good Answer (Score 2)
Guru
Technical Fields - Technical Writing - New Member Engineering Fields - Piping Design Engineering - New Member

Join Date: May 2009
Location: Richland, WA, USA
Posts: 20963
Good Answers: 780
#47

Re: New Study: Every Black Hole Contains Another Universe

04/22/2014 10:16 PM

Every navel contains another universe, if you contemplate it deeply enough.

__________________
In vino veritas; in cervisia carmen; in aqua E. coli.
Reply
Reply to Forum Thread 55 comments
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.

Comments rated to be Good Answers:

These comments received enough positive ratings to make them "good answers".

Comments rated to be "almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, rate them!
Copy to Clipboard

Users who posted comments:

adreasler (4); Anonymous Hero (11); Anonymous Poster (2); cchaf (8); Doorman (1); europium mkII (8); Fredski (1); IdeaSmith (1); jack of all trades (1); James Stewart (1); k.v.gopalakrishnan (1); kudukdweller9 (5); redfred (3); SimpleMind (1); SolarEagle (3); tcmtech (1); Tornado (3)

Previous in Forum: Major Astrophysics Update Coming   Next in Forum: What Was In The Malaysian Plane´s Hold?

Advertisement