Best Way of Marking a Chain?

If it was me I would go with the standard electronics resistor color coding system being it's easy for me to remember.

Good idea!, but how many OHMS to a Meter?

Absolutely. It is a standard.

Can the chain be seen from both control stations?

Can the chain be seen in the hold?

What is the minimum depth to which the chain will be dropped? How many meters (minimum) will ALWAYS be paid out to anchor.

I'd divide the chain into 3 sections, starting at the minimum pay-out point, and then simply go green, yellow, red. Assuming you'll always pay out at least 10 meters, you'll have 3, 13 meter section to manage.

You'll know that when you start "seeing red" you're down to about 10-13 meters. So will everyone else (non-resistor users) on the boat.

Choose a 4th color, say white for the beginning (anchor) end, if you demand higher accuracy.

KISS.

May be some good thoughts here.

The spectrum (resistor color code) goes: Black, Brown, Red, Orange, Yellow, green, blue, violet, gray, white.

However, in poorer lighting conditions or dirt and sun, differentiating black from brown or orange from yellow may be challenging.

So, a different set of colors might be a better choice and fewer of them.

Last resort is the LynDoor Chain Monkey.

LynDoor™Industries has been enjoined by attorneys of PETA to discontinue the ChainMonkey^© line of chain monitors.

Tail amputations are listed as the main cause of the legal actions.

Hi there!

Can the chain be seen from both control stations? Yes

Can the chain be seen in the hold? Yes, but you need to open a lid on the deck and chain is usually a mess inside a metal container

What is the minimum depth to which the chain will be dropped? How many meters (minimum) will ALWAYS be paid out to anchor. Distance from the winch to the ESCOBÉN (exit of the chain at the side of the hull at deck level: word not found on the translator):1M, from there to waterline: 2M. Draft: 1,5M. Minimum distance below the keel to the bottom: 2M. Total 5,5M. Under these circumstances the tip of the 30 Kg anchor is vertically hanging, touching the river bed with no "anchoring" effect. I always release a minimum of 5M of chain in calm waters with no wind, under constant supervision. When retrieving it, the winch speeds up as less chain is left. It is required to have a mark to prevent a backlash or anchor hitting the hull. The last meters of the chain and the anchor may have to be washed while retrieving it to remove mud from the river bed. This can be done with a hose or leaving it hanging and dragging it on the water while moving forward at lo speed.

How about a revolution counter on the winch?

Probably not. No one liked my Chain Monkey, why would anyone want to count on a witch? :-)

Witch, winch, wench, wrench--I have seen several interchanges of these spellings.

Besides, don't witches have an adverse reaction to water? Not something to want to rely on in a nautical environment.

Surveyors' flagging tape might work, but would need to be renewed periodically.

I don't quite understand what you're going for here. does your term, "open water" mean depths exceeding 50M?

The Rio de la Plata, where I sail is one of the largest rivers in the world. It is about 100 Km long and 200 Km wide at it´s mouth. As most flatland rivers, it is quite shallow: average depth is of about 3 meters, although there are spots in which depth can reach 20 or more meters. Navigation of freighters is restricted to channels which have to be constantly maintained. Near to Buenos Aires is a big delta with thousands of islands where many people have farms and week end houses. If sailing 3000 Km upstream the Paraná River you can reach the very heart of Brazil. Just across Buenos Aires (60 km) is a beautiful Uruguayan town called Colonia, which we visit very often on holidays or long weekends.

In front of Montevideo (Uruguay´s capital) lies the wreck of the Graaf Spee which has been sunk at the beginning of WWII... but that´s another story

Good find.

Some possibilities to consider:

.

The chain markers Solar Eagle references look great.... though prices for Marine equipment always bug me a little bit. I'd probably be looking for something like short sections of anodized aluminum that could be water welded into the innerlink space as Solar Eagle's example illustrates.

.

Alternately, zip ties come in a multitude of vivid colors and a range of sizes. These are cheap and easy to replace if they wear off or are damaged.

.

It would be a good idea to have redundant systems to allow you to confirm. In addition to using distinct colors, consider a system of spaces to provide a confirmation indication.

.

From 9.5 meters to 10.5 meters, attach red zipties to every other link so that there is one link unmarked in between, representing 10 meters.

.

From 14.5 m to 15.5 m, attach zip ties a pattern of red on one link followed by a blank link , then two links marked with yellow, then one blank then repeat

.

20m two yellow two unmarked two yellow.....

.

25m two yellow two unmarked three white two unmarked.....

.

Or a pattern of your own choosing... Either way, I'd stay away from darker colors and possibly away from greens. The colors should be distinct from the one used adjacent, but can be similar to (or the same as) the color used at the other end of the chain.

cable ties may foul the chain winch.

Ain't that a cute little devil?

The chain in the image is like mine, but used in saltwater, which exceptionally will happen with mine

You could also put a chain box on a scale and measure the weight of the remaining chain in the box. The distance between the winch and water line is a constant.

I actually am trying to avoid hi-tech alternatives that WILL fail!.

Resistor code won't work because the black, brown, possibly red and orange on a rusty chain will not be discernible against the color of the chain. Inserts, such as the blue ones illustrated can pop out unless they are so tight that they are hard to get in. Wire ties will break, surveyors ribbon will break or shred.

For rope anchor lines it is common practice to put red or orange ribbons with the depth marked on the ribbon through the strands but this would be shredded on a chain as it went through the capstan/winch.

Try taking white, yellow, silver, gold, or a combination of them and set up a code system. Paint adjacent links with this at predetermined depths and mark the chain with them. Better yet, paint them with spaces between them to make it easier to see them.

For example: white 5m--yellow 10m--silver 15m-- gold 20m-- gold +white 25m-- gold + yellow 30m, etc. A possibly easier method would be to do it binary. For example: white//yellow 4m; white//yellow//yellow 8m; white//white//yellow 12m; white//yellow//yellow//yellow 16m; white//yellow//white//yellow/yellow 20m; etc. based on white = 1 and yellow =0 in binary exponentials. With a little practice this would be easier to read on a chain than having to decipher the colors, remembering the color code and translating it in to base 10 digits. It is easier to do by base 2 than by 10.

Of course you have to know your powers of 2!

Good Luck, Old Salt

I also have thought of using binary... but in order to see the markings from the cockpit on a fast moving chain marks each mark must be (at least) .5 meters long. Therefore, the 16 meter mark would use 2 meters of chain ! thank you

Use white.

Mark each desired length interval; for instance: meter,10 meters,etc. with a different number of painted links.

1 Link for first interval, 2 links for second interval,3 links for third interval,etc.

White is easy to see in dim light,and counting the number of white links should be no

problem.

Even an apprentice seaman can count links without need for a color code.

Good luck.

KISS.

Hi! your idea would work pretty well on a static chain. In this case, as it moves quite fast it may be impractical (don´t forget I am usually in the cockpit, about 4 meters away from the winch)

I would make it simple with 2 colors. As you are only dealing with 50 meters it should be easy. Just use two contrasting colors like white and red. Mark each 5 meters with one spot of white, and use the red to separate the whiI would make it simple with 2 colors. As you are only dealing with 50 meters it should be easy. Just use two contrasting colors like white and red. Mark each 5 meters with one spot of white, and use the red to separate the white spots.

5 meters=1 white spot

10m=2 spots

25m=5 spots

50m=10 spots

At each marking you'll have ((#white spots)-1)#red spots. Spray paint would work great as you can adjust the size of the spots by simply changing the distance between the can and the chain to get the size you want.

This way a complicated color scheme isn't needed, and doesn't have to be memorized, anyone that gets on your boat will know how much chain is out after a simple explanationy

Of course, you are right!

A single color (see previous reply #21) is much too complicated,and the ability to

count to 5 would be lost on a person with no fingers, and only a hook for a hand,and it

would take too long to train a new high school graduate in old school math.

Two colors is MUCH simpler!

Don't have to be an ass! Ever have the thought that someone hits reply but doesn't finish the post before other people reply?

If not, you should now because that's what happened. Why the hell would I reply with an idea that is basically a carbon copy of someone else's idea?
Gotta love the internet.

Both your response and HiTekRedNek's are too complicated and require too much thinking, especially in a stressed situation. Counting links???? Really?

And, as the #1 ass here, I can tell you that criticism comes with the territory.

This is one of the most civil forums anywhere. Get used to it.

Oh, welcome.

You are right.

And I thought about that and looked at the time of each post: Only 1 hour and 12

minutes separate the two posts.Therefor I must conclude that some people read very

slowly.Or they do not read prior posts at all. Whatever, the case, thanks for the

compliment.Compared to what I was thinking in reply,it was very mild and civil.

But since I don't think you deserve a compliment, I will withold it.

As I learned in school:

"Sticks and stones may break my bones,but whips and chains excite me!"

Lighten up! In a hundred years it will not matter anyway.

Just to let you know,I realize there was a long time in between posts. But what I said is what happened. I read every post, hit reply, wrote it, tried to post it and received an error. This has happened to me before while using my tablet, so I went researching and found it was my keyboard so causing the problem.

So I installed a new keyboard app and re wrote my post, that is what caused the large time delay.

Settle down sport!!!

If you think that Redneck's post was "asslike" then you aint seen nothing yet.

I thought his post was funny.

Relax and enjoy CR4. Asshood may well be your calling.....

GA just for 'asshood' alone. Thank you for that.

Don't worry about markings - just make sure the free end of the chain is shackled to something on the boat

you know? every now and then I hear about people who have lost their chain that way!

That's why the boat end of an anchor line is named "THE BITTER END". If you forgot to secure it to a Sampson Post or some other secure and sturdy part of the boat, it is a very BITTER situation!

Good Luck, Old Salt

I've heard several different suggestions as to how the end of the line became known as the bitter end.

.

I once hear it had to do with the ends of lines being dipped in tar and other substances (to prevent fraying) which might make it bitter if you happened to have it in your mouth for some reason.

.

I've heard that it comes from 'bits' of wood being attached to the end when no windlass is utilized.

.

It makes a lot of sense to me that it arises from being the portion of the line which is tied off to the bitts on piers.

.

I believe some boats use bitts and a bitter pin in conjunction with anchor lines on the anti-anchor side, also suggesting the term may have arisen from 'the thing that bites the bitts'.

.

Proverbs 5:4 'but her end is bitter as wormwood' might also have played a part in the etymology.

.

If the German people had a more significant influence on naval vernacular it might be plausible that 'bitter end' had to do with a pleading request that there not be a need for more line to be played out.

.

I suspect that the use meaning as 'the final part of a regrettable situation' likely came from the nautical term and not the other way around.

My impulse is to keep it simple and intuitive (in case you ever have unfamiliar crew on board).

Paint 4/5 of the chain (unpainted is a color, too) The highest-warning color for the bottom 10m (red), then yellow, then day-glo green, then day-glo blue. Paint black bands at the boundaries and at the midpoints of every 10m section (or mask them off and leave unpainted) about 10 or 20 cm wide. Use a bright color for the midpoint of the unpainted section.

This would give you a simple and intuitive system with the 5m increments your question seems to imply, and a lot of visual stimulus so that a quick glance at the chain would give you an instant approximation.

It sounds like you want to mark every 5 meters. How about using two colors, say yellow and red. Paint 1 link red at 5 m, 1 link yellow at 10, 1 link yellow, 1 link red at 15, two links yellow at 20, etc.

Why not put a counter on the winch It shouldn't be hard, measure the length of chain for on revolution then multiply by revolutions, I'm sure you can get an electronic counter

so as to repeat at the helm.

PS, Veeder root make manual counters and I bet that they make electronic ones as well.

Bazzer.

Hi Bazzer! thanks for your input! On one hand I have to admit I love all kind of techno gadgets... but we must also recon they are prone to fail when most needed or require adjustments to give accurate readings. Anchoring a boat is a piece of cake 99% of the times, but doing it under "the worst possible scenario" like currents near to a rocky coast, bad weather, no natural light, etc. can get hairy every now and then as you need everything to work properly (spotlights, main engines, winch, AC generator) at the same time. According to Murphy´s law: if the chance of failure is 10%, when you most need it, they will turn into 90% against you!

this is the third time I write a post that disappears.... please tell me something is going wrong with CR4´s servers, cause if not I will have to get an appointment with my Neurologist asap! What I said in my unpublished post is that -based on your input and some of my own harvest, I will probably go for an intuitive two colour "Modified Resistor Color Code" where the darker colour indicates the higher values. Brown and green will be discarded as they look like mud or vegetation. According this idea red can be a warning at both ends of the chain. White is 5 meters. 10 = Yellow, 20 = Orange, 30= Violet and 40= Black. Intermediate values 15, 25, etc are a combination of white and the colour corresponding to the "tens". Any suggestions?

If it happens again, go back one step in your browser. It will still be there.

Copy it and open a new reply window. Paste it there press and it will go fine.

Press "preview" then "submit" and it will post.

The old window has "timed out".

Right! I have just noticed this in a previous reply. The problem was that the windows timed out! Glad to know I don´t have to go and see the Neurologist!

I have seen chain marked at intervals with a small tag of rope. It was tied to a link and maybe 3 to 4 inches long. Long enough to see at speed, not long enough to catch on anything. If it frays doesn't matter. Every fifth was a different colour to indicate multiples of 5. Easy to see, easy to count and cheap to boot.

After looking at all the replies so far, if it was me, I would use post #13(Solar Eagle) link suggestion, as it has been tried and proven by other sailors.I gave it a GA.

Good luck!

exit 0.

Just insert a gold link every five meters.

I would use magenta, yellow and white, as they show up the best, under a variety of lighting colors.

I like these colors!

I like your idea of 'stripes'. If you were to paint five links or so and then leave a gap of the same amount of links then paint another five you will see the speed of the chain as well. Of course use different colours for the different sections, perhaps following a section of the rainbow spectrum. e.g. yellow, orange and red.

Jim

I like your rainbow chain - that is what I thought as well. I still remember the acronym from public school.

ROYGBIV

red, orange, yellow, green, blue, indigo, violet

We have had great success on similar size chain (45' yacht) using nylon electrical cable ties. One on a link @ 5m (or feet), 2 @10m, 3 @30m etc. Leave the tail long on these, or trim a little to suit and add one at each halfway mark with tail trimmed at the link. That way when it is winching in or playing out, you will know there is a measured marker approaching. They tend to be fairly durable thru the winch and only rarely need to be replaced. If you do lose one, you know where you are on the chain from the preceding and following marker. Its worked OK for around 20 years or so.

If you want to get fancy you could mix with coloured ties for some form of coding but thats getting a little too complicated when you need to have the correct coloured replacement available.

Hi AussieBob! considering this is a message a yacht owner sent me from the future (*) and how long your cable ties lasted, I will have to seriously consider the option you have proposed! I have had the same idea, but discarded it cause thought they would get disintegrated after the first use, so GA for you!.... Now I have to face another problem: a while ago I bought a set of 6 cans of paint x 250 ml (about 1/2 pint ea) containing the primary colours for doing the job: should I return them or follow your advise????

(*) you are one day ahead of me

Kind regards R&DDOC

Use the cable ties on the chain and use the paint on your boat...

Shall I also change it´s name to "Rainbow"?

It's your boat, call it whatever you like.

If you are after suggestions, then, how about "Cluster Cuss"?

Nah! Go ahead and paint the whole chain, with every color being followed by a contrasting one, and you will know where you are on the playout or windup after a couple tries, and can easily see the rate of travel.

After the paint wears out and all the paint is used up, try the cable ties, and if that wears out, then use Solar Eagles tagline to get the plastic chain inserts.

Use fluorescent paint for the markings. With this you will be able to see the marking with a much dimmer light, maybe even the anchor light.

Good Luck, Old Salt

Mechanical counter with a flexible (rotating) link.

Gajanan Phadte

http://www.westmarine.com/anchor-line-accessories/west-marine--anchor-rode-markers--104372

I use these on my 3/8" anchor chain and yes, they do get a little chewed-up over time when going thru the chain gypsy. For six bucks every couple of years - it remains a practical option.

The colour coding is a handy way to determine in a quick glance approximately how much rode you have out, even from the helm. My crew always operate the anchor from the bow - so she can also read the numbers on the tags and lower the desired amount of chain.

Well done. GA

From the boys manual of seamanship.

Here is the info on the lead lines, including markings -

Q. How do you know, by the hand lead and line, what depth of water you are in?
A. The hand line is 20 fathoms in length, and is divided into 20 equal parts, called marks and deeps.
Q. How many marks and deeps are there?
A. Nine marks and eleven deeps.
Q. Name the marks.
A. 2, 3, 5, 7, 10,13,15,17, 20. 2, 3, and 10 are distinguished by pieces of leather. 2 has two ends to it ; 3 has three ends to it ; and 10 has a hole in it. 5 and 15 fathoms are distinguished by a piece of white buntin ; 7 and 17 by a piece of red buntin ; 13 by a piece of blue buntin ; and 20 by two knots.

Twine was used many years ago. Problem was it didn't hold up for too long. Also it was difficult to directly read since you had to count the number of twines that had passed.

The current way is to buy a set of short pieces of ribbon with the either feet from the anchor or fathoms from the anchor. The ribbons are similar to woven surveyor's ribbons. They have the numbers printed directly on them so all you have to do is read the number to find out what the length out is. They are installed on twisted three strand rope by passing the ribbon behind one strand of the rope and tying a square knot with the ribbon. An alternate method is to sew them onto the anchor line. They are called "Anchor Rhode Markers"

http://www.westmarine.com/anchor-line-accessories/west-marine--anchor-rode-markers--104372

Good Luck, Old Salt

Should we give each other GA's for that West Marine Link?

Regarding the twine, been there, tried that. Colour washed-out too quickly , although that may be because I was trying to use fluorescent colours.

Don't know about the GA. I personally have never used the twine for depth markers. Have been on boats that used them but most of them were missing after a few uses. I have used one variation or another of the anchor line markers for the past many years. Only started to use the West markers for the last 40 years or so.

Although some mark their lines in fathoms I prefer feet. Much handier and if I need fathoms I simply do a mental division by 6 (old school math). Also at a slope of 5:1 I probably wouldn't see beyond the 15 fathom mark very often.

As for the fading, the West markers do but after a very long time. My storm anchor markers never fade since it seldom gets used. The lower parts of the lunch hook line fade a little but nearer to the bitter end it hardly ever sees the sun.

Good Luck, Old Salt

Only 40 years or so! Sayyyyy....you are old!

Hey now, let's be easy on those years. The boat is younger than me but she is a lady so I would never tell her age. Me, mind of a 23 year old and the body of a 123 year old. No, I am not old. You're only as old as you feel and more so how old you want to feel. My GG-Great something Grandfather out lived 3 wives, had 25 children with those three wives and had great-grandchildren older than some of his children. He also fought in the Civil War for 4 years. Now that my hero!

Good Luck, Old Salt

As Groucho put it, "You're only as old as the woman you feel."

He also said 'I intend to live forever, or die trying', and he was true to his word.

Or, as Woody Allen put it, he didn't want to achieve immortality by being remembered, but by not dying.

Not far off another Groucho line, "I don't care to belong to any club that would have me as a member".

I'm sure that applied to the club of the previously living.

Nice find.

First mark is at 15 fathoms,90 feet.

Would it be technically kosher to scale the interval down for shorter chains?

On the Mississippi River, Mark Twain is adequate; Mark 1.5 and you occasionally run aground. (Been there, done that.)

Despite real sailors use Fathoms, having turned into a bluewater sailor, living in a country where metric system rules, I feel will feel very comfortable marking my chain every 5 meters (2.734033246 Fathoms) if you don´t care!. No offense!