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Associate

Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Dubai
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HVAC Question

04/13/2014 3:40 AM

I am having a misunderstanding with my project engineer and manager.I am installing eight tonne and ten tonne split unit.The supplier did not supply the filter drier but its recommended to be installed.My engineer is telling me to install without.Is this good .They want to cut costs.The other issue is of the machines,there is no service valve for pump down and gas recovery.I had proposed external valves ,but it seems no one is taking me seriously.How best can i win under such circumstances.

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#1

Re: HVAC

04/13/2014 5:44 AM

There is no easy way to win.
All you can do is try and explain the cost/time implications when there is a problem later on. Put your concern in writing preferably with some financial cost benefit analysis. Copy it, to all concerned. Keep a copy yourself.
That's all you can do.
Del

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#2

Re: HVAC

04/13/2014 8:26 AM

Money. Money and a lawyer is the only way one can coerce a contractor to follow a contract. However, trying to enforce a written contract can quickly become more of a problem than the non-compliance itself.

My point is that you do not have an engineering problem. You have a business contract problem. Forget the discussion you had with a salesman or engineer about what would be done. Read your contract. If the valves and drier are specifically written into the contract then this contractor should install them, regardless of any opinions.

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#3

Re: HVAC

04/13/2014 8:28 AM

When you figure out how to do this, please post your answer. Who knows, you might even be nominated for some sort of award. Your task is somewhere between difficult and impossible. Even if you convince them, you will be forever shunned. Follow Del's advice, follow your bosses instructions. Don't ever try and collect the "I told you so", it will only shorten your career. Look at it this way, when it fails, and you have to spend days fixing something, you will earn plenty of over time or comp time.

You may be qualified to fix this system when it fails, but I've never known anyone who can fix stupid.

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#4

Re: HVAC

04/13/2014 9:03 AM

adding any filter/drier is adding a slight restriction and pressure drop.so if you want to split hairs on a technical argument you can't deny these facts but a drier will always remove moisture and acid before they become problematic and are a good idea to have in the LIQUID LINE. do not add to the suction line unless cleaning the sustem, do not leave in the system for normal operation.

re: valves. any quality pump down equipment come with them, no need for redundancy but are always useful for future service and maintenance. I'd rather have them

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Associate

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#5
In reply to #4

Re: HVAC

04/13/2014 10:27 AM

This is a liquid filter drier for the high side ,not suction .Usually ,machines of that capacity will be equipped with service valves.But this is a different scenario.Since we have TEV instead of distributers ,a filter drier will be of much importance.

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#6

Re: HVAC

04/13/2014 11:18 AM

What's the RH in Dubai? Maybe you don't need no stinkin' driers....

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#7

Re: HVAC

04/13/2014 12:38 PM

Follow orders until you are the one giving the orders...If you were in their position and could see the big picture, you might make the same decision....The customer might have specified "as cheap as possible", regardless of future consequences...Many builder's models are stripped units, just to reduce cost of construction....Many developers are only responsible for repairs for a short time, maybe a year, maybe just 90 days...It's a calculated gamble that the units will last that period of time without components that would add to the integrity of the install...

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#8
In reply to #7

Re: HVAC

04/14/2014 12:01 AM

I too was going to say do what the boss says, ESPECIALLY if he is a dumb-ass! (UNLESS you are requested to do something, which might potentially endanger someone's life; then, shout till someone of authority hears you!) HOWEVER just remember to ALWAYS get DOCUMENTATION! Tell him you are keeping a log for your next performance review, and you want to see how well you are following orders, and improving in your duties! Just have him to sign off on EXACTLY what you are supposed to do, and how well you did what he told you to do. This is a win-win for you. You have your records for your own protection if you were told to do something stupid; and, IF you have ALSO documented just how stupid you think it might be; so, his boss can recognize just what a 'team playing' asset you are when the feces hits the oscillator!

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#11
In reply to #8

Re: HVAC

04/14/2014 12:36 PM

I don't know. A lot of dumb bosses are smart enough to never put their orders in writing.

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#12
In reply to #11

Re: HVAC

04/14/2014 9:41 PM

In that case doccument 'that' too, along with your concerns. Its all about covering your hind quarters.

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#9

Re: HVAC Question

04/14/2014 5:19 AM

If there is not enough cost or time to do the thing properly, where is the cost or time going to come from to put it right after it has gone wrong?

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#10

Re: HVAC Question

04/14/2014 7:34 AM

Your project engineer (not mechanical designer) is employed by you, it seems. Are you the subcontractor installer, General contractor or owner? The manufacturerer shipped what was ordered, most likely. Are you debating a change order to add the equipment? It's easy to pick a side if you are not on one, however, generally accepted, contract terms and system drawings are going to be the watchwords. You would hope that someone reviewed submittals on behalf of the owner. Whoever signed off on them needs to be at the table. Get a price to get what you want, negotiate the cost. Maybe it's no cost.

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