Previous in Forum: Resilvering old mirrors?   Next in Forum: The number of PSVs in a plant?
Close
Close
Close
16 comments
Rate Comments: Nested
Participant

Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 3

Dissolving potting epoxy from Hybrid IC

06/24/2007 1:51 AM

Trying to repair an old machine which has a 'hybrid amplifier' - components mounted on a small substrate pcb, then the substrate is potted in epoxy.

How would one go about removing the epoxy as the machine is 20 years old and we have no way of obtaining a replacement part.

Cheers!

Register to Reply
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.
Guru
Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member United Kingdom - Member - New Member

Join Date: May 2007
Location: Harlow England
Posts: 16512
Good Answers: 670
#1

Re: Dissolving potting epoxy from Hybrid IC

06/24/2007 4:20 AM

Virtually impossible.

Even if you got the epoxy off the 'printed' resistors could easilly be damaged and wouldn't be repairable.

I'd suggest building up a suitable replacement on a small board and wiring it in.

__________________
health warning: These posts may contain traces of nut.
Register to Reply
Guru
India - Member - Sensors Technology Popular Science - Cosmology - Dream, Think and Act United Kingdom - Member - New Member United States - Member - New Member Canada - Member - New Member

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: AM-51, Deen Dayal Nagar, Gwalior, Madhya Pradesh, MP 474001, India
Posts: 3418
Good Answers: 32
#2
In reply to #1

Re: Dissolving potting epoxy from Hybrid IC

06/24/2007 11:07 PM

I agree. If he know the function of the IC then he can get it made again from another design engineer. Repairing of Hybrid Circuit is rarely done unless it is very special design.

Take an X-ray and pin point a problem and then use abrasive removal technique with close control of depth of removal. Such instruments should be available commercially. These were used for reverse engineering long ago. I think they used acid etching machines with force jet of acid.

__________________
Prof. (Dr.) Shyam, Managing Director for Sensors Technology Private Limited. Gwalior, MP474001, India.
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Hyderabad, India
Posts: 596
Good Answers: 12
#3

Re: Dissolving potting epoxy from Hybrid IC

06/24/2007 11:41 PM

Definitely possible but I do not know about chemicals. I got few such Hybrid circuits opened up for repair. I am not able to help you, as I do not the whereabouts of that chemical expert. His name Mr. Pramod Tiwari M.Sc Ph.D, he last worked for RS Components India, my ex-college at Usha Rectifiers. Alternatively you can break small pieces using cutters and other similar tools.

__________________
Subramanyam
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Etats Unis
Posts: 1871
Good Answers: 45
#4

Re: Dissolving potting epoxy from Hybrid IC

06/25/2007 1:38 AM

I once used Glacial acetic acid to remove epoxy from a potted circuit. Very, very nasty stuff, slow going and it doesn't just eat the epoxy. Backwards engineer the function and build another one. That's what you'll have to do anyway since as others have indicated repairing the device is virtually impossible and would probably be more work.

__________________
The hardest thing to overcome, is not knowing that you don't know.
Register to Reply
Participant

Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 3
#5

Re: Dissolving potting epoxy from Hybrid IC

06/25/2007 2:06 AM

many manufacturers have products lsuch as a concret cleaner..use it brfore constructing on the floor

maybe it's useful

Register to Reply
Anonymous Poster
#6

Re: Dissolving potting epoxy from Hybrid IC

06/25/2007 2:37 AM

I have often succeeded in de-potting such assemblies, simply by soaking them in tetrahydrofuran (a.k.a. THF) for several days. Don't agitate the clear glass jar in which you immerse the entire assembly in THF, leave it quite still. The epoxy will form a sludge at the bottom and you will have placed the assembly on a little spacer to keep it up the top. You will be able to read resistor paint-stripe color codes, nearly everything! Remove the skeleton of the amplifier from the clear THF liquid and let it air dry outdoors.

Regrettably, THF is sometimes chosen as a precursor in illegal drug manufacture, so you will need ID when purchasing it. And it's carcinogenic. And it's highly flammable. So please take care not to burn, die or get arrested. But when you're finished, filter the sludge out and the THF can be used time and again for exposing the electronic mysteries that the potter thought he had hidden forever.

Mark Bingham
http://www.fourth-axis.com

Register to Reply
Guru
India - Member - Sensors Technology Popular Science - Cosmology - Dream, Think and Act United Kingdom - Member - New Member United States - Member - New Member Canada - Member - New Member

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: AM-51, Deen Dayal Nagar, Gwalior, Madhya Pradesh, MP 474001, India
Posts: 3418
Good Answers: 32
#7
In reply to #6

Re: Dissolving potting epoxy from Hybrid IC

06/25/2007 4:09 AM

Dear Mark

Perhaps you have valuable experience and it is worth putting it here. Good. I appreciate it.

Are you owner of that Fourthaxis company?

You can get in touch with me at sst (at) sensorstechnology (dot) com

__________________
Prof. (Dr.) Shyam, Managing Director for Sensors Technology Private Limited. Gwalior, MP474001, India.
Register to Reply
Anonymous Poster
#8

Re: Dissolving potting epoxy from Hybrid IC

06/25/2007 4:59 AM

In the olden days when epoxy encapsulation was quite new, circa 1953, we used to boil the assembly in triclorethelene but this was mainly to find out what had gone wrong during manufacture and not to repair it. I am no chemist so best take advice before trying it.

Register to Reply
Guru
Hobbies - Fishing - New Member

Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 867
Good Answers: 11
#9
In reply to #8

Re: Dissolving potting epoxy from Hybrid IC

06/25/2007 8:03 AM

Methylene chloride will dissolve the epoxy but might very well attack other components. Worth a try if the THK doesn't work.

__________________
Eric
Register to Reply
Power-User

Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 273
Good Answers: 3
#10

Re: Dissolving potting epoxy from Hybrid IC

06/25/2007 8:39 AM

Back in the bad old days I had fair success heating the units until the epoxy would soften enough to remove it.

Register to Reply
Guru
Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member Safety - ESD - New Member Hobbies - Fishing - New Member

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Near Frankfurt am Main, Germany. 50.390866N, 8.884827E
Posts: 17996
Good Answers: 200
#11

Re: Dissolving potting epoxy from Hybrid IC

06/25/2007 12:14 PM

Save yourself a lot of heartache, buy a new machine or modernise your process.....

If you do not have exact infos about this hybrid, I give a 1 to 1000 chance of getting it to work again....sorry.

__________________
"What others say about you reveals more about them, than it does you." Anon.
Register to Reply
Associate

Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 47
#12

Re: Dissolving potting epoxy from Hybrid IC

06/25/2007 1:51 PM

THF is not a good choice here.

You can used NMP (M-pyrol) slight heating will soften and allow you to pick off the material.

For the experienced use fumming nitric acid (Red and strong). But it will damage everything.

The board may not be coated with an epoxied, urethanes were the material of choice for board coatings.

Register to Reply
Associate
France - Member - New Member

Join Date: May 2007
Location: nargis (Loiret, France)
Posts: 42
#13

Re: Dissolving potting epoxy from Hybrid IC

06/25/2007 2:03 PM

When I need to dissolve freshly polymerized epoxy,I use a mixture of water and aceton,with about 60% aceton.The part must be immersed into the solution,in a closed vessel,and kept for one week,or even more.It's better to apply heat(30 °C to 60°C).Caution because aceton vapors are highly flammable and unpleasant to smell.
However,25 years ago,there was on the market a FAR BETTER SOLVENT:

STIRONOL PLASTO'SOLVE

probably of swedish manufacture.This was extremly efficient on potted hybrid modules and highly cured high voltage TV transformers.
You should look after the composition of this solvent,if application of warm water + aceton during one week(in full immersion)is not enough

__________________
nitrosamine
Register to Reply
Participant

Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 3
#14
In reply to #13

Re: Dissolving potting epoxy from Hybrid IC

08/16/2007 1:05 AM

Thanks everybody, Acetone did the trick, 3 days at room temperature was enough, there was a large resistor on the cct which had signs of fracture, luckily this went to 2 external pins so was easy to parallel a new resistor, value found by measuring the two halves of the cracked hybrid resistor, all is working now.

Cheers...

Register to Reply
Participant

Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 1
#15

Re: Dissolving potting epoxy from Hybrid IC

08/18/2015 1:30 PM

Please help me to remove epoxy from such type of hybrid ICs. I hv tried chloroform chemical to remove but it does not remove perfectly. Plz suggest best chemical. Thanks

Links Industrial Electronics Lahore Pakistan

Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru
India - Member - Sensors Technology Popular Science - Cosmology - Dream, Think and Act United Kingdom - Member - New Member United States - Member - New Member Canada - Member - New Member

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: AM-51, Deen Dayal Nagar, Gwalior, Madhya Pradesh, MP 474001, India
Posts: 3418
Good Answers: 32
#16

Re: Dissolving potting epoxy from Hybrid IC

08/21/2015 12:53 AM

Surface coating done of Hybrid Circuits are usually ceramic sealants of high abrasion strength, high insulation, chemically inert or non-reacting type, also seal the moisture of the atmosphere and are acid resist. Some Hybrid circuits may use transparent coating similar to Epoxies used in LEDs. Ceramics are difficult to remove even by mechanical surface scratching and may generate enough heat to kill the good properties of the working components.

Manufacturers obviously know the chemical properties and often do purchase solvent of the Epoxies if used for potting as surface varnish. One manufacturer asked me to return the damaged part such that he could analyze the defect after removing the Epoxy he used for potting.

Hybrid circuits are as good as ICs and are often use and through type. However if there is some problem in manufacturing and part repair is essential then it is done before coating is applied or potting is done.

__________________
Prof. (Dr.) Shyam, Managing Director for Sensors Technology Private Limited. Gwalior, MP474001, India.
Register to Reply
Register to Reply 16 comments
Copy to Clipboard

Users who posted comments:

Andy Germany (1); anitoff (1); Anonymous Poster (2); ca1ic0cat (1); Kaine (1); kvsubramanyam (1); Phoggy (1); prbarry (1); rcapper (1); Shyam (3); Taoseef (1); user-deleted-1105 (1); Ydobon (1)

Previous in Forum: Resilvering old mirrors?   Next in Forum: The number of PSVs in a plant?

Advertisement