How NOT To Win A Dog Fight

Well, in a way, he did indirectly saved the boy?

Great post, AH.

I have had 2 Dobermans, and while they were obedient there was always a possibility of an outside influence I could not control ( why do people who are afraid of dogs try to agressively shoo them away ? )

Anyway, I only wanted to point out that as an owner I was always attentive to them when they were out, and there were more than a few times when a situation could have developed were it not for my intervention in the early moments. I had worries about the consequences of my dog being involved in an incident such as you describe, and knew that besides losing my animal I would have social and legal consequences likely as well.

The net result of my concerns is that I am a concientious dog owner, and I shake my head at the owner in your example who allowed this to occur. I believe there are the majority of "good owners" but as is typical in human nature, the " bad owners " spoil it for everyone. I see that Apparently the man re-aimed and got the dog after all. Leave it to Detroit to make headlines with this, but I suppose it could happen in any gun-happy locale. IMHO should be charged with reckless use of firearm, or at least endangerment, and undergo mandatory training or have a ban on possession imposed for a time. ( enforcable is another thing entirely )

I think the problem is not so much good or bad owners. The issue is a lot of uneducated owners (I should know, I was one of them at one time) have no understanding of dogs and how strong pack drives are. Many people simply do not know what pack drive is.

The good news is that many (if not most) dogs are not genetically that much of a problem, but there is a significant number that surprise their owners with unexpected aggressive behaviors. That is why there 4.5 million dog bites each year and an incident can errupt faster than you can snap your head around to see it.

I would use the same strategy as Ceasar Millan recommends, a swift kick in the ribs will cause the dog holding the other dog to cut loose....It's a good idea to have a stick in your hand, you can hold the stick at the dog to keep him at a distance...the dog views the stick as an extension of your body, and if biting, will bite the end of the stick instead of your leg, the dog will attack the closest part of your body, as long as you keep the stick as the closest part, you're safe....I have used this technique, showed to me by a fireman, to enter apts with vicious dogs and a vacant owner, on several occasions...it's amazing how easy it is once you get the hang of it...the first time is rather terrifying though...on the other hand if the dog's are evenly matched, they will usually stop on their own....In the case of a child you really don't have much choice, you must intervene...it's just a good idea to grab something for the dog to bite besides yourself....

http://www.cesarsway.com/askcesar/anxiety/Breaking-up-Dog-Fights

I can't believe Cesar would say that. That is a totally irresponsible thing to say.

Kicking a dog while engaged in a fight or flight mode is more likely to turn their attention back toward you or increase their aggression toward the original target.

It is the exact same process when humans fight and if someone grabs the shoulder of one of the fighters. The instinctive move it to turn and punch the the grabber. There is no cognitive thought about it.

The same thing happens for the dog, they will turn to address the new threat instinctively or amp up their attack with the dog or person they are already engaged in.

Additionally, kicking a dog hard in the ribs may or might not disable the dog. However, you can't be assured that your action will work and dogs tend to react quicker than humans do, making a second chance to strike less likely.

Cesar mostly deals with smaller and less aggressive dogs. I have seen his techniques and for the most part they work with most dogs. BUT Cesar does not have it right when it comes to dominant/aggressive dogs. He calls them red zone dogs because he is trying to get people to avoid them as Cesar has insufficient experience in this domain.

I have some experience with world-class trainers of protection/police/and military dogs as well as world champion Schutzhund dogs as well as dominant/aggressive behavior (I have such a dog). Using Cesar's recommended method to manage dogs like these in that state of mind is highly dangerous. Dogs kill hundreds of people each year and 150,000+ each year end up in ERs.

The stick is an interesting idea, but I would not rely on one to divert a dog's attack long enough to defuse the situation. Grabbing and pulling the dog away by the hind legs is both safer and more effective.

Well I respectfully disagree....first of all trying to grab a fighting dog by the hind legs is easier said than done...secondly the dog is likely to turn immediately and attack you when you grab his legs, and guess what, your face is the closest part of you to the dog and will likely be his first target....The stick method absolutely works....try it some time...of course the dog catcher pole is the way most aggressive dogs are captured, if you watch them do it they keep the pole between them and the dog, the dog bites the end of the pole at first, just as they will a stick, but soon they will see it is having no effect and will stop, at that point you can back them up by pushing the stick at their face....

I respect your opinion.

The advice I gave you comes from someone with 45 years in the business with police and schutzhund dogs and my personal trainer, who has done the same for decades and is a graduate of Cornell University.

The two situations I personally used this technique would not have been a good situation to use a stick and no sticks were nearby anyway.

Even if a stick was a good working idea, it is highly unlikely people are going to have one or know where to find one.

Also, the dogs that I have worked with are trained to ignore sticks, so that is another problem. Fighting bit bulls are sometimes trained with a break stick. They are technically illegal.

As for the dog biting your face with the hind leg maneuver, that is far less likely than engaging the dog at the other end. By dragging the dog back and then circling you keep the dog off balance so they are not able to turn and bite. Again, this is an extreme situation, but the best way to manage it if you have to.

If you do this right, within a few circles you can hammer-throw the dog over the nearest fence, or into the nearest wall.

Not easy with a big dog, but I have been able to to that with an 80lb dog out through a door.

Clearly there is different approaches for different situations....Different types of dogs in different situations....The size of the dogs, the type of breed, the amount of training, whether one dog has clamped down on the neck of another one, or they are engaged in even battle....I can see that either approach may be appropriate in a certain situation...

Keep one of these handy...

Very good advice. Until I developed a need for regular aerobic exercise for health reasons and began to ride a bike nearly every day, the only time I had ever been bitten by a dog was when I tried to break up a fight between my dog and the neighbor's dog. Never intervene, especially with your hands.

Oh - a tip for cyclists. A dog chasing you almost always stops biting at you when you stop pedaling - it appears as though the circular motion of your feet on the pedals triggers some basic instinct to attack them. If a dog comes after me I now get off the bike and look at him - the dog will usually back away and start barking at you from a safe distance. (I say "usually" since they will be times this probably won't work, but for the last 6 years it has worked for me)

I don't think I will depend on that advice.......

When I was on the farm, and drove my snowmobile through the yard, our Austrian Shepard always bit at the seat and actually took a bite out of the Snowmobile Seat....... They are a very protective and territorial animal. Probably thought it was coming to my defense.

In 6 years and numerous chases, I've always defused the situation by getting off the bike before the dog got to me. Before that, I was bitten 5 times on the leg in 3 years.

P.S. Works with billy goats too. (I'm riding in a very rural spot)

Just don't turn your back on a billy goat......... we had Pygmy's. they're cute..... until you take you eyes off of them.

The one I came upon on an old dirt road, came over to me once I was off the bike and let me scratch his head...and scratch his head...and scratch his head.. - he didn't want me to stop and he let me know it.

And now you have him right next to you,.... ... as your scratching his head......

Forunately he was "hen pecked". One of the nanny goats he was protecting made a nah, or bah, or bleat, or whatever you call a goats call, and he trudged off to see what waqs up and I made a quick escape. (it was probably feeding time and they were on their way back to the farm)

One reason is territory. However, some dogs have a very high prey drive and anything that runs or moves is "game on" from their perspective.

One reason is territory.

Our Austrian Shepard's, were just that........ Best cow dogs there are......... and protects the family in a blink of an eye..... And that is the scary part......... they will access a situation and make a decision and act, all in a blink of an eye.

Salesmen beware, ^{btw, its hard breaking in a new salesmen}