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Solar Energy

06/10/2014 11:29 PM

Hi, every one I would like know that can we convert solar energy into electrical enegy (AC voltage) without battery charging or i want to omit battery circuit. Because by using batteries the output cost of solar enegy would be high therefore in in day light this proposal would be low cost. Please advice and if have anyone some diagrams and knowledge please share. Thanks

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#1

Re: Solar Enegy

06/10/2014 11:40 PM

Yes.

Those types of systems are typically used to feed solar energy directly back into the power grid through voltage inverters.

Look up Grid Tied Solar Systems.

You really can't power anything reliably with a grid tied system as the power output fluctuates with solar conditions. This is why off-grid systems need a battery bank so the the power can be stored and distributed as needed.

Grid tied systems are used to sell electricity back to the utility company.

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#2

Re: Solar Enegy

06/10/2014 11:40 PM

Yes, but not directly. Solar panels make DC current. it must then be converted to AC.

How Solar Electricity Systems Work - Go Solar California

Obtaining Alternating Current Through a Solar Panel - Win

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#3

Re: Solar Enegy

06/10/2014 11:57 PM

Also perform an internet search for "Solar micro-inverter" - solar inverters designed for individual solar panels that convert the solar panel DC voltage directly to AC.

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#4

Re: Solar Enegy

06/11/2014 2:46 AM

unless the sun is flashing at 50 times a second (read 60 for USA) you are going to get DC. You don't get a lot of power from solar so forget things like heating and cooking. Let suppose you want to run lights - your lights would only operate during the day when the sun is up . At night time the sun is out and so are your lights.

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#5
In reply to #4

Re: Solar Enegy

06/11/2014 3:19 AM

Even when the sun flashes in 50-60Hz you will have the moon cycle to be included to get into negative. Or is it a black hole that sucke the light out again?

Light is not so much a bright example as the goo oll light bulbs work on DC and AC and in case the moon light sucker in conjunction with the black hole works you can run the lights at negative current (lets say its also a kind of DC).

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#6

Re: Solar Enegy

06/11/2014 9:29 AM

Solar energy is dc. Its better to direct it to a battery and through an inverter to get ac power.

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#7

Re: Solar Enegy

06/11/2014 10:51 PM

Yes

however you MUST have a UL1741 certified inverter, as this type of inverter will remove voltage fluctuations and is safe due to its 'anti-islanding' properties.

This CAN be tied to the grid without batteries, however you MUST use a certified installer, or you can power your home when the sun is shining. As for diagrams.. no... if I give you a diagram it's the same as handing you a loaded gun. Get a professional!!

As for power output from the PV panels.... all dependent on the sun!

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#8

Re: Solar Energy

06/12/2014 4:55 AM

Any solar cell available at this time is relatively inefficient. They also age and even there low output drops even more as they get heated by the Sun!! (How silly and impractical!!). My suggestion is to leave them alone for a few years more.

At best today, if you install water cooled solar cells and use the warm water in the house in some manner, you can dramatically increase the overall efficiency of the whole system (hot water and electricity) immediately of the now "cool" solar cells, as well as having a source of warmed water, that can be used to supply pre-warmed water to a hot water/ heating system, or can be "pumped up" to a higher temperature by a heat pump.

There are some newer developments coming with solar cells from several sources, with "better" efficiencies and lower prices, but don`t hold your breath, it might take some years more before a real delivery is possible.

I personally would only use solar electricity at this time if someone GAVE me the whole system and installed it for free!!!

But the final (now informed!) choice is yours!

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#9

Re: Solar Enegy

06/12/2014 8:01 AM

Storing electric power is expensive, and alternative I have been investigating and experimenting with is 'heat pump' technology. Much more efficient and 'heat' is available 24-7, just less at night. A 'heat pump' will transfer 3-7 times as much energy as it takes to run it. A solar panels efficiency maxes out at about 20%. In my opinion this field is much neglected and needs to be developed. It can boil water- steam can run an engine- that engine can generate electricity, even at night.

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#11
In reply to #9

Re: Solar Enegy

06/12/2014 9:29 AM

True, True and still TRUE!!

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#15
In reply to #9

Re: Solar Enegy

06/13/2014 6:38 AM

How are you going to boil water at night with no sun and only a heat pump involved???

Unless you feed other energy (maybe from the so called fossil fuels) in the system I can't see how this works. Can you please explain.

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#16
In reply to #15

Re: Solar Enegy

06/13/2014 9:50 AM

Insulated storage tanks are the usual method.....as in most houses, the hot water tank (if you have one!) is insulated to hold the heat as long as possible.

It is also possible to have a further storage tank with the sun warmed water, to be available to "pump up" the temperature overnight when needed for the actual hot water tank.....

The technology has been around for many years now and is well understood....

It is also possible to say remove heat from a (cellar?) room, improving its quality of coolness to keep produce and stuff fresh, plus giving up the heat harvested to the main INSULATED HOT WATER STORAGE TANK!!

I would hesitate to guess, but I will just say that probably more than a million homes around the world (probably more!) heat water in some similar manner....in Turkey for example, each and every house has such a collector......they are being sold in the USA too!

Here is the roof mounted part!!!

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#17
In reply to #16

Re: Solar Enegy

06/13/2014 10:05 AM

Cellar = Indoor Swimming Pool in Florida

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#18
In reply to #17

Re: Solar Enegy

06/13/2014 10:08 AM

Here usually not!!

My neighbour across the road has had one in his cellar since he built the house in 1983!!

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#22
In reply to #16

Re: Solar Energy

06/22/2014 12:56 PM

Not what I meant! You kick in there for nothing!

The idea that was presented is that "water be boiled and steam being used for electricity production."

You are describing a simple hot water system. Not the same!

Me thinks Geraldpaxton went overboard when saying you can even boil the water overnight! Using a simple heat transfer process with such "high" efficiency even in the night.

If he meant to store the steam then good luck with the efficiency of the system.

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#19
In reply to #15

Re: Solar Enegy

06/13/2014 3:10 PM

I set up 6 panels from the back of refrigerators as evaporators, this boils the refrigerant day or night, a 1/2 hp Copeland compressor compresses this gas to a liquid which is very hot and run through a heat exchanger in a tank which water circulates through which outputs through a radiator. I hope to finish a sterling unit which will use this heat to run a generator. Any temp above the boiling point of the fluid (even at night) will allow the transfer of this heat...as I need more I'll add evaporators and maybe a larger compressor, this system cost should be less than solar panels.

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#20
In reply to #19

Re: Solar Enegy

06/13/2014 4:34 PM

Interesting, keep us informed (I am basically just nosy!!)

Your last sentence:-

...as I need more I'll add evaporators and maybe a larger compressor, this system cost should be less than solar panels.

I would just add that to my mind ANYTHING is cheaper than solar panels......and more efficient!! As well as being cheaper to install, partly due to the fact that the technology can be understood and installed by almost any average DIY Guy/Gal..........

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#23
In reply to #19

Re: Solar Enegy

06/22/2014 1:03 PM

You are not boiling water to produce electricity.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organic_Rankine_cycle

Do you mean to do this?

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#10

Re: Solar Enegy

06/12/2014 8:51 AM

The answer should tie in directly to how you wish to use the energy you produce. If you wish to add power to the grid, then you must up-convert the energy to phase lock with the AC signal of the grid, with appropriate voltage step-up also. Equipment for this exists.

If you are wanting to store the energy somehow, pumped hydroelectric comes to mind, or even compressed air.

If you are using this for lighting, why not skip the PV banks altogether and use roof-top solar tubes that essentially are light pipes for the sunlight?

By the way I saw two amazing things recently: (1) solar cells with "chopper" overlay that directly produces 50 or 60hz AC, no inverter required, however efficiency of area suffers in this design at present. (2) new research on multi-layered solar cells with overall solar efficiency of up to 45% conversion of light into electrical power.

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#12
In reply to #10

Re: Solar Enegy

06/12/2014 10:17 AM

you said.. "If you wish to add power to the grid, then you must up-convert the energy to phase lock with the AC signal of the grid, with appropriate voltage step-up also. Equipment for this exists".

and that would be a UL1741 inverter! But depending on the country you live, this connection must be done by a certified approved person, via a two way meter if you wish to get paid for supplying energy from your PV array

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#13
In reply to #12

Re: Solar Enegy

06/12/2014 2:38 PM

In some communities in the USA, the local power utility may have rules that do not permit these installations, even with a so-called trip and lock-out if they sense a low voltage condition on the lines servicing the neighborhood. Sometimes personnel can be injured by working on lines that are being back fed by home inverters.

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#14
In reply to #13

Re: Solar Enegy

06/12/2014 3:27 PM

you said.

"Sometimes personnel can be injured by working on lines that are being back fed by home inverters."

That's why the only inverter that should be used is a UL1741 certified one, as it has instantaneous "anti-islanding" to prevent feeding into a dead line and injuring workers.

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#21
In reply to #14

Re: Solar Enegy

06/16/2014 3:01 PM

Agreed about the inverters, but in my community the local retail electric utility does not care a whit about inverters or controls on them, these systems are simply disallowed. I still plan on having my own personal electric power system soon, but in no way connected to house AC supply. It will be strictly DC power, most likely with lead-acid batteries for energy storage, Inverters will be in my shop that is not connected to house electric in any way. I should be in the clear on that one.

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