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Fasteners Solution

06/18/2014 5:41 AM

Why high tension bolt broken during tightening ?

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#1

Re: Fasteners solution

06/18/2014 6:40 AM

Because the tension in the bolt exceeded that which it could sustain.

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#2
In reply to #1

Re: Fasteners solution

06/18/2014 8:07 AM

Quick and precise!

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#9
In reply to #1

Re: Fasteners solution

06/18/2014 11:04 PM

It's that simple. Same reason anything breaks.

During installation.......use a shorter pipe on the end of the spanner.

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#24
In reply to #9

Re: Fasteners solution

06/19/2014 9:33 AM

Exactly.

There has to be a reason they call those pipes 'breaker bars,' I'd say that this example showed the inspiration for the name: a bar you add to a wrench in order to break bolt heads off.

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#28
In reply to #24

Re: Fasteners solution

06/19/2014 10:24 AM

As with many things there are several answers as to why things are called what they are. For example the word "ice" can be frozen water or a diamond.

Some of the more mechanically directed explanations are:

Breaker Bar: 1) bar used to break free nuts/bolts/pipe/etc. from their tightened position; 2) a long rod or device, such as a Johnson Bar, used as a lever to break things free from their location such as a metal plate rusted to another; 3) when using a pipe or some other device to extend the handle of a wrench, the wrench handle will break due to too much force on the wrench handle; 4) when using it to extend a wrench handle and the handle breaks or the nut slips off of the nut/bolt head you slip and the "breaker bar" proceeds to hit you in one of the more sensitive areas of the body. This is often called a "nut buster".

Wrench: 1) a device used to tighten/loosen a fastener; 2) a device placed on the rim of a valve handle to extend the effective radius of the valve. Pipe wrenches are usually used for this; 3) a drill chuck key; 4) anything you want to be called a wrench. These devices are not to be confused with the similar sounding word "wench". Watch you spelling!

Good Luck, Old Salt

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#29
In reply to #28

Re: Fasteners solution

06/19/2014 10:37 AM

This:is a "breaker bar".

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#36
In reply to #29

Re: Fasteners solution

06/19/2014 11:24 AM

I got one of those. One meter long with 3/4 drive. For those jobs when you really want to twist the head off of a fastener with unsettling ease.

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#31
In reply to #28

Re: Fasteners solution

06/19/2014 10:51 AM

I've also heard Vice-Grip pliers described as 'the last step in rounding a hex head bolt off after using increasingly inappropriate devices to wear the corners down.'

Brute force, like violence, is always AN answer, but very seldom is it the RIGHT answer.

Personally, I've really fallen in like with the idea of these 'superbolts' for applications using huge diameter threaded fasteners. The bolt head (or nut) has a number of threaded holes in a ring centered between the thread OD and the outside diameter of the head/nut, and the head/nut is completely round, no flats for a wrench to grip. The bolt/nut is put on my hand and spun until 'almost tight' but still able to spin freely in either direction, then the smaller bolts are placed in the threaded holes and turned by wrench to press against a spacer washer, stretching the bolt for a proper grip while leaving the 'breaking' (aka, 'releasing,' I know what the word is supposed to mean, I was just commenting on the practice of breaker bars being used to over-tighten bolts) force low, since the smaller bolts are sharing the load and don't need to be at as high a torque that a 'normal' giant bolt would need.

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#32
In reply to #31

Re: Fasteners solution

06/19/2014 11:06 AM

adreasler-

Besides the Vice-Grip I have found another invaluable plier for nearly the same purpose. A Channel-lock #414 Nutbuster 13.5" Tongue and Groove Plier can do just about everything a vice-grip can and do it better. The only thing it won't do is to lock in place. It looks similar to the usual tongue and groove plier but with curved and reducing size jaws. It is also available in other smaller sizes. Many nuts have been stripped by vice grips for various reasons but gotten off with these.

Good Luck, Old Salt

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#34
In reply to #32

Re: Fasteners solution

06/19/2014 11:16 AM

Ooooh, those pliers look absolutely sinister.

In the wrong hands, they look like they could absolutely SHRED a bolt head by trying to overtightening it and slipping on the soon-to-be-not-there corners, then keep grinding what's left of the head down until the bolt effectively becomes a threaded rod.

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#37
In reply to #34

Re: Fasteners solution

06/19/2014 12:19 PM

adreasler-

I have found them to be quite the opposite. As you grip them in your hand on the nut/bolt the teeth on the jaws are deeper and dig into the nut/bolt more. This has the advantage that the teeth get more of a bite into the object preventing it from slipping. Also as you grip them tighter and begin to turn them the short distance of the jaws from the fulcrum as compared to your hand gives you greater mechanical advantage over the use of vise-grips. Since the teeth dig in so much it gets to the point where the bolt/nut won't turn prior to the point where it is shredded.

Vise grips are good for what they are intended for but their intended use is not the same as these. Vise grips will grip onto something so they hold onto something. Their teeth on the jaws are shallow and tend to slip and round out the points of a hex or other configuration. Also if you tighten them so much that they hold they can be very difficult to get off the object. This is very true with the newer "needle-nose" style, especially towards the ends of the jaws. Also some ingenious people will put cheaters on vise-grips and break them between the jaws and the fulcrum. I have salvaged several for others simply by putting a good deep penetration weld to fix them.

If you have the opportunity, try out one of the jaw breakers. I think you will like them after seeing them and possibly trying them out. I reach for them when the "tuff ones" come along. Certainly better than the straight or curved jaw vise grips or channel locks for what each is intended for.

Good Luck, Old Salt

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#54
In reply to #37

Re: Fasteners solution

06/24/2014 11:04 AM

A good ol' pipe wrench does the same kind of thing too if you have room for the head. Of course, usually the stuck bolt is deep within the engine cavity, around two bends and upside down.

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#55
In reply to #54

Re: Fasteners solution

06/24/2014 12:26 PM

Of course, YES! If you can't get the bolt or pipe to budge get a bigger wrench, (B-F-W in the trades). If it still won't budge at least you are able to break it off after tearing it to shreds. Never could figure out why they call them "pipe wrenches". In the hands of some persons the BFW is a manual fulcrumised positive serrated contact pipe collapser.

When a wrench is too small get a BFW. When the BFW is still too small get an even bigger BFW! When all else fails get the BgFW! If that still doesn't work get the oxy-acetylene torch or just forget about it and get another beer.

Good Luck, Old Salt

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#57
In reply to #55

Re: Fasteners solution

06/25/2014 12:06 PM

I love your "manual fulcrumised positive serrated contact pipe collapser". (Laughed out load, because I have done just that. )

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#58
In reply to #57

Re: Fasteners solution

06/25/2014 2:12 PM

They are available in either Left handed, Right handed or Ambidextrous models. Steel models are available although most prefer aluminum for overhead use.

There are also compound units available. They have much more power but take longer to set-up. Dem's for the strong hearted, strong bodied and probably weak minded macho types.

Available in capacities of 2, 5, 6, and 8". I have a 6" one if you are interested. Weighs 46 lbs so it is UPS shippable. I can assure it will git er dun! Don't ask why I have it please.

Good Luck, Old Salt

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#56
In reply to #54

Re: Fasteners solution

06/24/2014 4:56 PM

And just think, with the new additive manufacturing technologies, you'd be able to BUILD a bolt and nut completely inside another structure, so there is literally NO way to reach it with any sort of tool.

There would still need to be a way for water to enter and rust the components, but that hole can be very tiny.

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#35
In reply to #9

Re: Fasteners solution

06/19/2014 11:23 AM

Many years ago a friend of mine was replacing the head gasket on one of our company trucks. When he tightened the cam gear nut, it reached max torque with one of the points of the nut, instead of the flat of the nut, lined up with the retainer tab. He asked me if I wanted to loosen it enough to bend the tab or tighten it. I went over to his shop and loosened it, and that felt too loose so I started to tightened it. Not too far past the max torque point, the end of the cam snapped off even with the back of the nut. He said "I'm glad YOU broke the cam and NOT ME!."

I guess those torque ratings do mean something! -- JHF

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#20
In reply to #1

Re: Fasteners solution

06/19/2014 8:51 AM

It is a GENERIC answer which does NOT give an explanation to the specific case. If we want to help we should give answers related to the specific problem -at least it is what I think- of course generic answers are right but too general to be of help.

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#23
In reply to #20

Re: Fasteners solution

06/19/2014 9:26 AM

That answer wasn't generic. It was just as specific as the question.

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#25
In reply to #20

Re: Fasteners solution

06/19/2014 9:41 AM

Please explain how we can give a specific answer when the question itself is generic?

I am not even looking at the grammar, this is an international site, and not everyone is fluent in English. When I run across a question that is ambiguous because of grammar problems, I ask probing questions to tease the information out and 'refine' the question into one that is able to be understood and answered.

Here, there is so little information given, the only responses can be generic answers to "Why do bolts break when tightened?"

I'm sure nobody here is trying to belittle or harass the OP, we're all just trying to answer the question the best we can given the extreme lack of information.

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#38
In reply to #20

Re: Fasteners solution

06/19/2014 12:33 PM

As good an answer as question. If one truly wants an intelligent answer it would seem to be appropriate to give enough information to form a reasonable answer. "Why does a bolt break is very much akin to "Why does a chicken cross a road."

If the question is asked properly, the answer may reveal itself before hitting the "SEND" button. If stating "Why does a properly torqued bolt break" may reveal that the person does not actually know if the bolt was torqued properly. There would be not point in sending the question until it is established that the bolt was torqued, not just tightened. If the bolt is one of X number and Y number of bolts are missing, putting all of the bolts in and see what happens would be appropriate before sending the question. this can go on all day.

One thing I tell my trainees often is this. If you have a machine that worked for a long time and now is failing for "no reason" think "what is different today than yesterday (last week, last month, etc.)

With a little thought most "mysteries" can be solved. If not then phrase a question with enough info and submit to CR4, the mfg, etc. -- JHF

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#41
In reply to #38

Re: Fasteners solution

06/19/2014 2:16 PM

True, true, true!!

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#3

Re: Fasteners Solution

06/18/2014 10:18 AM

There are many reason, the most probable is that you used a TOO high torque.

It would be easier to see if other reasons could be considered if you would send a picture of the broken sections and indicate where bolts broke.

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#4

Re: Fasteners Solution

06/18/2014 11:25 AM

Are you taking a test, or applying for a job?

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#5

Re: Fasteners Solution

06/18/2014 3:12 PM

No lubricant on threads is another reason.

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#18
In reply to #5

Re: Fasteners Solution

06/19/2014 8:44 AM

I appreciate your comments but this one is not right:

if the torque level was set for NOT lubricated bolts then by lubricating it the friction is reduced and for same torque the tension increases so that it can lead to a breakage.

If on the contrary the torque was set for LUBRICATED threads and the bolt is NOT lubricated the friction is higher and the preload decreases some times drastically so that the assembly can fail under repeated loads.

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#6

Re: Fasteners Solution

06/18/2014 3:52 PM

Maybe it was already tight and was turned the wrong way.

Righty; tighty, lefty; loosey

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#7

Re: Fasteners Solution

06/18/2014 3:57 PM

Manufacturing defect in the bolt is another.

I was on a windfarm once and one of the staff sheared one of the bolts holding the tower to the base using a hand tool and extension bar, and those things were massive. Sometimes you get a defective bolt!

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#8

Re: Fasteners Solution

06/18/2014 10:43 PM

The weak old millwright is supposed to tighten the bolt and the big beefy muscular young pipe-fitter is supposed to loosen the bolt. If this is mixed around the bolt is over tightened and breaks.

This is also why good pneumatic impact wrenches, such as used on car wheels/tires to mount them on the hubs, always have a higher torque rating in the counter-clockwise direction than the clock-wise direction. More torque is needed to loosen if it was tightened too far or the threads are the least bit dirty, rusted or dry.

Righty tightey weaker, Lefty loosey stronger.

Good Luck, Old Salt

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#14
In reply to #8

Re: Fasteners Solution

06/19/2014 6:47 AM

I've had several pneumatic impacts and have never noticed a specification of a higher torque in reverse direction...where did you find this? When you use an impact to tighten wheel lugs you need to be aware of how long you hammer on the lugs, as each stroke of the hammer drives it tighter. I have had reputable service centers do tire repair and later noticed when trying to remove the lugs that they were severely over torqued. I once had to use a 5' cheater to remove lugs on a Travelall that had new tires at at truck stop, my 165# on the 5' cheater would not remove them... I estimate I put a 300# pull up on a 5' cheater to remove them after twisting 2- 4way tire wrenches. Impacts to torque tire lugs are one of my pet peeves.

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#15
In reply to #14

Re: Fasteners Solution

06/19/2014 7:02 AM

Yes,a peeve of mine too. Hammering the lug nuts on with an air rattle is too much.

By all means spin the nuts on fast with the air tool but finish torquing them up with a manual wheel brace fellas. They actually do that here because they know they'll be the ones trying to get them off later.

As for the CW impact being greater than the CCW impact by default, that's new to me too. One can of course manually set the air pressure or the dial on the tool to a lower level for CW and maxed out on CCW operations.

Then there's left hand threads to contend with....

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#19
In reply to #14

Re: Fasteners Solution

06/19/2014 8:48 AM

Most of tools are controlled for the tightening and NOT controlled for the contrary operation so that the torque can go higher and even destroy the bolt if friction is too high which occurs in rusted assemblies.

I had such a case and the user did not want to pay for a reverse control so that he continued to destroy bolts!

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#21
In reply to #14

Re: Fasteners Solution

06/19/2014 9:12 AM

The problem is worldwide.

Here, the company will be in REAL BIG and expensive trouble with the law....

Some still do it though. I watch the whole procedure and wow, they always use the torque wrench. I wonder why?

Occasionally though, usually with one of the new young boys, they over tighten with the air wrench and then the torque wrench and say its good. Then I have a word in the ear of the chief mechanic. That fixes everything.....no tip is also the result of this!!! Bad training is the problem.....

The worst problems that I have had with wheel replacement though have not been with wheel tightening, but incorrect jacking up really heavy cars and not using the correct jacking points and severely damaging the sills - TWICE!!!

It cost both garages a lot more than a new set of tyres to repair the cars!!! But I guess their insurance pays in the end.....I've no idea, who cares anyway?

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#26
In reply to #14

Re: Fasteners Solution

06/19/2014 10:04 AM

The most frequent source of over tightened automobile lug nuts/bolts is too high a setting on the air compressor in the service shop. While the hobbyist has a compressor that probably has a maximum pressure of 120-125psi auto repair shops and especially tire dealers/installers set their compressors between 150-200psi. They do this for primarily two reasons: other equipment in the shop requires higher pressure than tires; some equipment will operate faster if set at a higher pressure (tire changers, lifts, etc.); if operated at higher pressures impact wrenches will have a higher output to loosen over tightened lugs from the previous guy who over torque them. Time is money and the quicker you can do things the more money can be made. Next time you are in a service station or a tire shop look at their air pressure gauge. This is not just an opinion; I have observed this in many shops. When I was in high school I worked as a mechanic. Boss always got mad when anyone would drop the air pressure down to 140psi from 190psi.

Again, the reason for impact wrenches having a higher "loosening" torque is to accommodate removal of over tightened (whatever the reason) lugs and other fasteners. It is normal that more torque is required to remove something than to tighten it. If the wrench was the same torque in both directions you wouldn't be able to loosen most things. In many situations there isn't much of a problem if the component/fastener is broken while removing it, you're going to probably replace it anyway. Usually why else would you be taking it off?

The following are examples of torque wrenches, all of the reputable manufacturers, which have higher removal torques than tightening torques. Some use various terms to describe each: working torque (tightening) and maximum or ultimate torque (loosening); working vs. reverse torque; working torque vs. bolt breakaway torque; working torque range (fwd) vs. maximum torque (rev); etc. You will find that the better wrenches have this feature while some of the lesser expensive brands do not.

http://www.ingersollrandproducts.com/am-en/products/tools/impactools/maintenance-automotive-impactools/1-2-drive/231-series/modelspec/33374

These are just a few of the many. Just examples, no commercial endorsement.

Personally they are the type I choose and the only ones that haven't broken apart. I hate to use cheaters, since they are not as safe, but if it is a must for lugs I use an 18" to 24" breaker bar. I also have several air compressors, from a 5hp IR to the 12volt emergency road repair very portable. All except the 12v are set for pressures of 90psi power on and 120psi power off. That way I know that at least I will not be over tightening lugs. Also I use filter-regulators at most of my piped outlets. I may be the one who has to get them off in the future.

Good Luck, Old Salt

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#27
In reply to #26

Re: Fasteners Solution

06/19/2014 10:16 AM

Thanks for the little tutorial Old Salt. Quite good.

Can't give you a GA even though it was good. It's too good for OT ranking though...

With the scant info from OP anything we blither about will be off topic anyway. #1 is the only rational answer to the original question.

Cheers.

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#30
In reply to #27

Re: Fasteners Solution

06/19/2014 10:42 AM

Wal-

You are probably already aware of this--

Answers to OT's don't have to be automatic OT's. When replying to an OT simply "uncheck" the box at the bottom of the reply page and it will not automatically get an OT.

change:

X Yes, this comment is very likely to be considered to be 'off-topic'

to

Yes, this comment is very likely to be considered to be 'off-topic'.

If you have a legitimate answer to an OT posting there is no reason why your's has to be an OT also.

Good Luck, Old Salt

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#43
In reply to #30

Re: Fasteners Solution

06/19/2014 10:49 PM

I had no idea that a reply to an OT could be unOTed manually. Never cared really, doesn't alter my online thrill...

OTed myself for this.

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#44
In reply to #43

Re: Fasteners Solution

06/19/2014 11:07 PM

GA! I only do it if I think the answer is a good one and for some reason the admin OT's the original. It surprises me how some posts are given a 5 point OT even if they are good and some of the really bad ones slip through. Also sometimes it is almost obvious who puts a 1 point OT on some of the really good ones. I really don't care, just so the person asking the question gets a good answer or a reason why a good answer can't be given. I'm going to try to undo the OT because you have posted a good one and I don't want to continue the OTs when yours was good. Or something like that.

Good Luck, Old Salt

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#45
In reply to #44

Re: Fasteners Solution

06/20/2014 10:45 AM

An "own" Off Topic" when answering is always a -5.

Do not ask me why, but it was always so..........No logic that I can see of!

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#47
In reply to #27

Re: Fasteners Solution

06/21/2014 12:19 PM

Wal-

Several contributors had stated that they were not aware of the loosening-higher torque: tightening-lower torque feature of many pneumatic impact wrenches. Having gained the information about them from several people of more knowledge than me at the time, I took the opportunity to explain it a little further. Same for why they get so tight in the first place.

Some time ago someone in marketing of a tool company probably saw an opportunity to solve a problem and sell more pneumatic impact wrenches. It caught on and he sold more of them. It certainly makes sense to have more torque taking the nut/bolt off than putting it on. Has anyone ever heard of a nut rusting itself on and being easier to take it off than it was to put it on?

Good Luck, Old Salt

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#48
In reply to #47

Re: Fasteners Solution

06/21/2014 3:14 PM

I have been using and purchasing impact tools for myself and various companies I have worked/consulted for the last 50 years, and I have to admit this might have been a convenience on several occasions. I would like to know the source of this tool as the 100 or so from top mfrs. I've purchased from over the last 50 don't carry these as far as I know. Every tool I've used has a direction set, and a power level (same for each direction) and works equally well on left or right hand threads. This sounds to me like a salesman's 'blowing smoke' pitch.

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#49
In reply to #48

Re: Fasteners Solution

06/21/2014 5:05 PM

geraldpaxton-

A very appropriate question. The following are listed in #26. The 1st Ingersoll-Rand and the last Snap-On. This is a quote of #26.

The following are examples of torque wrenches, all of reputable manufacturers, which have higher removal torques than tightening torques. Some use various terms to describe each: working torque (tightening) and maximum or ultimate torque (loosening); working vs. reverse torque; working torque vs. bolt breakaway torque; working torque range (fwd) vs. maximum torque (rev); etc. You will find that the better wrenches have this feature while some of the lesser expensive brands do not.

http://www.ingersollrandproducts.com/am-en/products/tools/impactools/maintenance-automotive-impactools/1-2-drive/231-series/modelspec/33374

http://store.snapon.com/1-2-Drive-Super-Duty-Impact-Wrench-Air-Heavy-Duty-Magnesium-Housing-Long-Anvil-1-2-drive-P647051.aspx

Sears, Home Depot, Lowes, Mac, and many other tool suppliers sell them.

To do a rather simple test of this function, put a regulator on the air line, around 80-110psi, just so long as the pressure stays the same through the test. Take a car and loosen a, only one, lug nut almost all the way. Tighten the nut onto the wheel and let the wrench go for about 5 seconds or more at no progress in rotation. Make sure the feed pressure is the same and loosen that lug nut. If the wrench has the loosen higher torque feature the nut will come off, or come off faster, because the CCW rotation is greater than the CW rotation. This is not a foolproof laboratory type test but very simple. Caution though, if the wrench doesn't have this feature the nut may not loosen. If necessary increase your air pressure until the wrench will not tighten nut anymore but will loosen it.

The shop where I buy my tires only buys the higher loosen type because the guy who owns it says "time is money" and breaker bars cost more in time than the breaker bar does. Also the shop where I take my vehicles to when I don't have the time or exotic tools to fix them swears by them. I have an I-R, CP and no name. All of them have this feature and now I wouldn't be without it. Don't ask why three, I don't know but too many is better than not enough

These are just a few of the many. Just examples, no commercial endorsement.

Let me know what happens. If the "test" doesn't come out with a clear answer there are other methods but they require muscle and possibly torque wrenches.

No smoke, just beef!

Good Luck, Old Salt

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#50
In reply to #49

Re: Fasteners Solution

06/22/2014 1:07 PM

Thanks, I'll check into these. I have and IR, Craftsman( I believe made by IR) 1/2 drive and 3/8 drive Snap-on. The IR and the Craftsman will both twist off a 1/2" bolt at 120psi. I can see a problem if the boosted reverse gets used on a left hand thread, though these are less common today.

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#51
In reply to #47

Re: Fasteners Solution

06/23/2014 2:37 PM

"Has anyone ever heard of a nut rusting itself on and being easier to take it off than it was to put it on?"

Does this include nuts that have rusted completely through and fall apart at a touch?

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#52
In reply to #51

Re: Fasteners Solution

06/23/2014 10:49 PM

If the nuts have rusted completely through and fall apart at a touch, they are no longer nuts but are now "nutshells".

Good Luck, Old Salt

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#53
In reply to #52

Re: Fasteners Solution

06/24/2014 9:14 AM

Ah, that answers my question, thank you.

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#59
In reply to #14

Re: Fasteners Solution

08/14/2014 9:57 AM

Agreed, I'd always advise anybody getting a new (to them) vehicle to take of the wheelnuts one at a time (and it might take some effort) grease the threads and replace at a sensible tightness. No need to jack up, and it could save a lot of trouble in the event of a flat tyre.

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#60
In reply to #59

Re: Fasteners Solution

08/18/2014 11:39 AM

I hate to be 'that guy,' but your advice can do more harm than good.

Wheelnuts (Lugnuts, for the Americans in the audience) are intended to be put on 'dry' (no lube) and tightened by hand to a specific torque (although 'wrench tight' is a close enough approximation for replacing a flat tire on the road). Adding lube before applying the wheelnut means that the nut will turn more freely, applying more tension to the bolt before the measured torque is reached. more tension = more stress on the bolt = greater chance of bolt failure.

The concept of taking a new car and 'breaking' the nuts loose, then re-seating them, *IS* a great idea, and I think it might be the real reason behind the push for tire/tyre rotation, if you break and re-seat the nut semi-regularly, it will me more likely to come loose easily when you need it to.

To make a long post short (too late), keep up with the advice, but leave out the lube.

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#61
In reply to #60

Re: Fasteners Solution

08/18/2014 12:36 PM

I'm not convinced that greasing the threads makes much difference to bolt tension at a given torque. My theory is that with ordinary automotive grease the extreme pressure on the threads cuts through the grease layer so the friction isnt much reduced. Maybe special grease e.g. moly might give a problem. It's analogous to the situation with greasing battery terminals. You might think this would cause problems due to contact resistance but in practice any effect is unnoticeable and far outweighed by the benefit of preventing corrosion. Again I believe due to high contact pressure.

I've been greasing wheelnuts for over 50 years and never had bolts break or nuts come loose.

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#62
In reply to #61

Re: Fasteners Solution

08/18/2014 12:52 PM

I'm with you as long as the "cone" on the nut that contacts the hole in the wheel, (lug nut or bolt) is not lubricated. Only the threads.

What I have had in the past, before I cleaned and lubricated the threads was an occasional corroded thread that eventually broke the threaded part which need replacing.

Mostly with nuts, but one time with a bolt!! Then the repairs.......

Remember, you cannot use heat on wheels with tyres to loosen a corroded thread.....

I actually use copper paste for brakes on the wheel nutbolt threads.

Since then NO loose nuts (other than the ones you sometimes meet on CR4!) and no corroded threads either. I have probably done it for almost 20 years.

It was a tip from a wheel shop Guy that suggested the copper paste....

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#63
In reply to #61

Re: Fasteners Solution

08/18/2014 4:39 PM

I use a cleaned fingernail polish bottle; put in it regular oil mixed with some MoS2. The brush in it helps get the mixture on the wheel stud. The MoS2 settles, so the bottle has to be shook before using; thus I'm not sure how much MoS2 actually gets on the threads. This has been working fine for maybe 4 decades.

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#10

Re: Fasteners Solution

06/19/2014 2:48 AM

A fake bolt from the far east maybe....test another one using a torque wrench.....

What am I saying, TEST THEM ALL!!!

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#11
In reply to #10

Re: Fasteners Solution

06/19/2014 3:04 AM

Test them all to failure just to be sure.

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#12
In reply to #11

Re: Fasteners Solution

06/19/2014 5:21 AM

Now why didn't I think of just that!!

..and then tell him to buy a new set!!

Seriously for a moment, he must have a tightening spec and a quick test is simply to go to that torque and make sure that each and every one can handle at least that.

Maybe even (open to ideas here) say 10% more as a test......

More? Less? Not a good idea?

What do you think?

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#13
In reply to #12

Re: Fasteners Solution

06/19/2014 6:33 AM

What do I think?

I think the OP is a tyre kicker asking dumb naive questions.

On the technical aspects...torque to specified elongation and see if the fastener returns to its original length.

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#16

Re: Fasteners Solution

06/19/2014 7:55 AM

Lefty Loosey, righty tighty doesn't always work.....

I broke 3 lugs on the left side of a Studebaker that way... Left Hand Lugs tighten right.... And this was only on the left side of the truck.... YeeHaw!

Check the top of the bolt for the GRADE of the bolt as well.....

Then check the grading chart for the bolt.

Torque wrench is your friend.

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#17
In reply to #16

Re: Fasteners Solution

06/19/2014 8:36 AM

"Left Hand Lugs tighten right"

are you serious?

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#40
In reply to #17

Re: Fasteners Solution

06/19/2014 1:31 PM

Note: left hand lugs tighten "LEFT" !!!! that's why you broke 3!

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#22
In reply to #16

Re: Fasteners Solution

06/19/2014 9:16 AM

When a nut is not easily removed, or after you broke the first one, a visual inspection of the thread should reveal the reason.....thats what I was taught over 50 years ago!!!

But three of them???????

But thanks for owning up, you may have saved someone else's bacon here!!

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#39
In reply to #16

Re: Fasteners Solution

06/19/2014 12:45 PM

And only on the rear wheel! Always thought that was interesting. (or was that my '57 IH?) Good memory, just short! -- JHF

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#33

Re: Fasteners Solution

06/19/2014 11:14 AM

If you buy quality air tools, the torque can be remarkably accurate and repeatable nowadays. For a small sample of many companies claiming good accuracy on such tools see here:-

http://www.nibtorque.com/id28.html

http://www.powermaster.in/en/bolting-tools/ptw-series-pneumatic-torque-wrenches.asp

http://www.titanti.com/pneumatic-torque-wrenches/

In my humble opinion, if the air wrench is of a "hammering" type, the settings and the repeatability are at best questionable, which is exactly why German law specifies only a "hand" torque wrench for the final tightening of car/truck road wheels in companies that do such work.

You still need to keep a watchful eye though....

Sadly this does not also apply to private (Gorillas) people with meter long "break bars"!!! Seen enough idiots in that area.....

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#42

Re: Fasteners Solution

06/19/2014 2:51 PM

If the bolt is part of an assembly with others, such as an automobile head of a flange, are you following the correct order of tightening the bolts? Tighten all hand tight in the specified order and then do the same with increasing torque increments. When you reach the specified torque STOP!

For example on a 4 bolt flange the order is 1-3-2-4. If the first one is drawn too tight when the opposite one is tightened it put extensive elongation forces on the opposite, #1, bolt. Same with all others. The raised center portion on the face of the flange acts like a fulcrum.

Good Luck, Old Salt

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#46

Re: Fasteners Solution

06/20/2014 5:56 PM

Did you know the torque setting for the bolt in question? Were you using an air impact wrench or a manual torque wrench? Did you lubricate the threads using the torque value for lubricated threads? Do you have a high strength flat washer under the bolt head? Do you know how to torque a bolt? On the last question, you must know that applying torque has to be continuous; no stopping and starting. When you stop, it takes a higher torque to overcome friction and that increased torque can result in broken bolts. On the question of a flat washer, using a "soft" washer, will give you false torque readings because the washer will compress before the torque setting is reached, for the same reason you don't torque cover plates with a rubber gasket.

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#64

Re: Fasteners Solution

09/26/2014 11:36 AM

Where did the bolt fail? Threads or under the head? Breaking during torque can be related to hydrogen attack. Was the bolt 1070 or high carbon steel? Was it heat treated and electroplated?

Thanks,

SPIROL

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