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Ancient Aliens

07/25/2014 3:05 PM

I've been watching the TV program "Ancient Aliens" and find that mysteries abound the ancient pyramids which are found in all parts of the world. The big question that is asked is: How did they do it? There are stones weighing several thousand tons that have been placed that only could have been placed from above, as with a crane. There is no evidence of any machines or tools that could exist thousands of years ago to perform such a task. Sure there have been some modern day researchers that have constructed primitive machines that could lift a ton or maybe two, but nothing that could deal with thousands of tons. There are also examples of stone that had been cut in a way that today could only be done by computer aided machines and/or diamond. Invariably, the answers turn to aliens from another world. I will be the last to embrace this notion, but I am at a loss as are so many others as to how ancient civilizations were able to do the seemingly impossible. I know most will reject the "alien" theory, but what other explanation could there be? Some might suggest that these TV programs are part of an agenda of some sort of conspiracy (unknown).

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#1

Re: Ancient Aliens

07/25/2014 3:16 PM

The big mistake is in thinking we are smarter now than we were then.

Most of the "impossible" things are relatively easy given sufficient manpower and time.

These days we always put stupid time constraints on everything.

One classic was a TV program where they were building a medieval siege engine and they "ran out of time" D'uh... time is the whole essence of a siege.
You want to cut a straight line how about a tight string in a vertical plane, or simply cleaving the stones, some stone works easily when freshly quarried then hardens with time.
There is so much "bad science" these days...
Another example was some idiot "proving " that you couldn't use a stone blade to skin and cut up an animal... no, you can't if you have no experience of butchering animals or using stone tools, but with the right experience it is quick and efficient.
We are the stupid ones not them.

Anyhow, a CAD operator would probably have trouble designing and machining a boomerang, yet the Australian Aborigine can make one with no electronics or paperwork. Same goes for stone tools, although CAD is now used to cut diamonds in more intricate ways than was previously managed by hand.

Generally all CAD does is speed up the process, and I'd like to see it try to make a longbow from a twisted knotty stave of Yew.
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#2
In reply to #1

Re: Ancient Aliens

07/25/2014 3:25 PM

You are correct, but something as enormous as the pyramids defies comprehension.

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#4
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Re: Ancient Aliens

07/25/2014 4:15 PM

No it doesn't Some of the ancient cultures had vast armies of labourers. And some of these structures took a lifetime to build.

It is just lazy thinking to invoke aliens or the supernatural.

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#6
In reply to #4

Re: Ancient Aliens

07/25/2014 5:00 PM

"And some of these structures took a lifetime to build."

I say, some of these structures took generations to build.

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#25
In reply to #6

Re: Ancient Aliens

07/26/2014 1:57 AM

Yes but a generation is say 20 years, a lifetime say 60

So we roughly agree, as 1 lifetime = 3 generations.

Anyhow if I'm getting a bunch of slaves to build my tomb, I want it finished by the time I die

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#26
In reply to #4

Re: Ancient Aliens

07/26/2014 1:58 AM

Not only the time required to build but tools,implements and techniques used are not known to modern man.

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#41
In reply to #26

Re: Ancient Aliens

07/26/2014 7:31 PM

The same will happen to us; we are right now buried in the darkest past, in relation to a couple million years from now.

In a distant future they won't find our tools, implements or techniques, they will even doubt that we could have existed so early, because they are the result of 6000 "long" years of evolution; and if they dare to concede us the existence, will envision us like some sort of monkeys.

They might find some evidence of our descendants though, just some mega-constructions and stuff made of gold or stone.

Matter decays.

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#45
In reply to #41

Re: Ancient Aliens

07/26/2014 9:00 PM

"...Matter decays...."

Radioactive matter certainly does.

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#52
In reply to #45

Re: Ancient Aliens

07/27/2014 12:46 PM

Absolutely agree, but almost everything else degrades by reduction, oxidation, reacts with other chemicals, gets interchanged by some surrounding substances, gets burnt, ground or molten, incorporates to the soil, dissolves in water, gets UV damaged and many, many etceteras.

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#37
In reply to #4

Re: Ancient Aliens

07/26/2014 11:59 AM

Instant gratification had not yet been invented.

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#23
In reply to #2

Re: Ancient Aliens

07/26/2014 12:51 AM

There are many things that men have done that defy comprehension. Such as the interstate (actually global) highway system, a 3 Terabyte hard drive, and the internet. None involved aliens. Or at least it is not necessary to invoke aliens in order to explain them.

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#30
In reply to #2

Re: Ancient Aliens

07/26/2014 3:22 AM

The stones are not that heavy, between 1 and several tons (NOT 1000s of tons!), not that I want one on my foot you understand. The methods used can be followed here:-

Building a Pyramid

That is one of many websites detailing how it was done.

How the original builders thought of the idea without access to the internet? Now that is a wonder!!!

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#76
In reply to #30

Re: Ancient Aliens

07/28/2014 6:56 PM

That is a very interesting link. Except they stole my idea!

Actually they only stole half of it. The other part is the more interesting. In the link there is a section where they are rolling a 50-70 ton block, mounted inside circular wheels, up a slope using ropes that pass under the stone and back up the slope. Workers pull the ropes from above.

In my version, imagine that the ropes go off to the right to another slope going downhill. One or more counterweights is on that slope, attached to the ropes. The counterweights are rocks fitted out with wheels just like the block to be moved, but much smaller, so that a small team can roll each one up the slope. When enough counterweights are attached, they start pulling the original block up the uphill slope. You will need more or fewer counterweights depending on the angle of each slope, friction, etc. But in general, there should always be a point at which the counterweights pull the block up.

Or you could do with the counterweights suspended in a vertical dropoff instead of a downhill slope, with ropes passing over pulleys (did they have pulleys?). Probably many small manageable weights. Maybe the weights are actually people. A lot easier to move around than rocks or sand. ("OK, everybody. When you reach the bottom, DON'T GET OFF UNTIL WE TELL YOU TO.")

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#48
In reply to #2

Re: Ancient Aliens

07/27/2014 2:19 AM

As much as I understood- there is no evidence for the "rolling stone", okay! I speculated another idea: A sail of 10 m^2 m' at 5m'/sec will give us almost 300 kg power- if we convert through a proper angle of the sail to the wind- the force will be increased by many times! The pyramid builders didn't hurry- instead of 5 m' per second, [like the wind] 0.5 m'/sec, would be perfect for them, so they gained a force of 3000 kg!

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#61
In reply to #2

Re: Ancient Aliens

07/28/2014 8:49 AM

This guy figured out a method that seems to do the trick.

I believe he is moving 21,000lb blocks by himself in his back yard to demonstrate his methods.

I bought his video and brought it to work, where it promptly disappeared. (Aliens?)

I must send him more of my money to get another.

-A-

http://www.offgridworld.com/man-moves-huge-blocks-by-himself-using-simple-tools-ancient-knowledge/

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#62
In reply to #61

Re: Ancient Aliens

07/28/2014 9:14 AM

Nice video and good method.

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#69
In reply to #61

Re: Ancient Aliens

07/28/2014 1:03 PM

Great link

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#78
In reply to #61

Re: Ancient Aliens

07/28/2014 10:23 PM

In ancient tall Hindu temples in India & Cambodia(Angorwat),they have found wall paintings showing how they moved/lifted huge stone blocks for temple building & how they quarried huge stone blocks using using pegs to cut in straight line etc. Did ancient egyptians,greeks,romans,aztec,mayans etc leave any evidence?.

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#36
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Re: Ancient Aliens

07/26/2014 11:57 AM

I think that the crux of this issue is that the people who come up with these "theories" of "ancient aliens" and the people who accept these "theories" with such passion, truly believe that our ancestors were as ignorant and stupid as they are.

And the folks that produce these shows, believe that those who watch them, might just be stupid enough to believe the advertisements that constitute 50% of the show's content.

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#64
In reply to #1

Re: Ancient Aliens

07/28/2014 11:52 AM

I knew Yew would say that.

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#3

Re: Ancient Aliens

07/25/2014 3:56 PM

One question that never seems to get asked by these "ancient alien" fanatics (nuts) is why an alien civilization, with a technology advanced enough to allow them to travel between stars, would have any reason or desire to waste their time building these pyramids and other such heaps of stone?

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#22
In reply to #3

Re: Ancient Aliens

07/26/2014 12:42 AM

Maybe they had kids.

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#34
In reply to #22

Re: Ancient Aliens

07/26/2014 10:27 AM

Good point! Maybe these aren't stones maybe they are alien Lego's.

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#54
In reply to #22

Re: Ancient Aliens

07/27/2014 2:11 PM

"Hi kids. What have you been doing down here today?"

"Hi Dad. We built a pyramid! Look!"

"Wow! That's really impressive. Now, why don't you pick up your stuff, and come back up to the star ship? Supper is almost ready

And please put my positronic cutter and anti-gravity encabulator back where they belong in the garage."

"Yes Dad"

Later:

"Hi Mom We built a big pyramid today"

"That's nice dears"

"Can we go down early tomorrow and watch the humans perform a sacrifice on it?"

"We'll see, but not before you finish all your chores tomorrow.

Now go wash your hands; supper is on the table"

"Yes Mom."

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#98
In reply to #54

Re: Ancient Aliens

07/31/2014 1:46 AM

Hands?

More tentacles right?

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#24
In reply to #3

Re: Ancient Aliens

07/26/2014 12:57 AM

Why do those strange "beach apes" (thank you Jim Toomey) gather at the ocean's edge and build elaborate castles out of sand, and then just get back in their steel bubbles and abandon them?

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#53
In reply to #24

Re: Ancient Aliens

07/27/2014 1:36 PM

Ask Heidi.

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#55
In reply to #53

Re: Ancient Aliens

07/27/2014 2:16 PM

W.T.F.I. Heidi?

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#57
In reply to #55

Re: Ancient Aliens

07/27/2014 2:50 PM

The CR4 user who occasionally posts questions about sand castle molds.

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#56
In reply to #53

Re: Ancient Aliens

07/27/2014 2:21 PM

Or maybe Elaine?

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#100
In reply to #3

Re: Ancient Aliens

07/31/2014 6:28 AM

Playing in the 'sandbox' was perhaps a reward for good behaviour in Deep Space ?

After all, the smarter we get, the more we want to play...

Anyhow, others have said the Egyptians had plenty of rope..HAHAHA..we would struggle today to make rope of suitable wear resistance and breaking strain (if it is at all possible), even given our knowledge of manufacturing artificial fibres.

We have been building wonderful structures for about 1000 years only. Bearing in mind how long that is, lets go back 5 times that long, and choose to believe that some desert-dwelling tribes, spun fibres gleaned from growth along the Nile flood plains, and manufactured rope with breaking strain of many tonnes, and sufficient of it to replace a rope at least for each stone block that was installed (wear resistance). Even if the rope was smeared with animal fat to improve wear resistance, how would a bunch of flesh-and-blood hands gain sufficient grip ?

Time for a more right-brained approach to discover a more satisfactory method of gaining mechanical advantage over those stones....

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#102
In reply to #100

Re: Ancient Aliens

07/31/2014 11:58 AM

You don't need to make a single rope with breaking strength of many tons. All you have to do is make a lot of ropes that together are able to roll or slide a block up a shallow incline. The better they manage the friction on the ground, the easier the task is, and the less tension on the rope. That's why I like the link to the web site about mounting the blocks inside round wooden frames to roll the blocks. It would be even better if there were any evidence of them doing that.

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#5

Re: Ancient Aliens

07/25/2014 4:47 PM

If "we" are not alone, then there's no such thing as an alien.

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#66
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Re: Ancient Aliens

07/28/2014 11:56 AM

Tell that to Mexico's Olympic swim team.

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#7

Re: Ancient Aliens

07/25/2014 5:18 PM

slaves work cheap

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#8

Re: Ancient Aliens

07/25/2014 5:21 PM

Prevailing theory is that they simply built large ramps from sand.

Researchers found that by wetting the sand to the correct amount would significantly reduce the coefficient of friction of each block of stone as it is dragged into place.

Most stone blocks only weighed in at about an average of 3/4 ton. While they did not have Chevy or Ram pickups to move the stone, 3/4 ton of block is not really that unfathomable.

Like any unfathomable mystery that humans find we tend to assign credit (or blame) to either God or aliens until we start peeling back the layers of the onion and realize how it really works.

Unfortunately, that has not yet happened with understanding women, but I an not yet ready to credit aliens with them, either.

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#9
In reply to #8

Re: Ancient Aliens

07/25/2014 5:27 PM

Women, one of the sweet mysteries of life.

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#10

Re: Ancient Aliens

07/25/2014 5:38 PM
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#11

Re: Ancient Aliens

07/25/2014 7:24 PM

I believe ancient cultures had something we lack of: PATIENCE and TIME. They spent days and weeks for doing calculations we do in a blink by pushing a button.. but: who cared? it was just the time it took! Many of the tools used nowadays in construction are the same -or derive- from those used by the egyptians to build their pyramids, like the square, the construction plumb or the level. These tools were probably much bigger than they are today in order to be more accurate, but that´s it.

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#12

Re: Ancient Aliens

07/25/2014 7:27 PM

It's kind of interesting to look at how the Russians moved the Thunder-stone, which weighed about 1500 tons, from the Gulf of Finland to St. Petersburg, using human power. In spite of the fact that this happened in 1770, they just used the old-fashioned rolling stone trick.

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#17
In reply to #12

Re: Ancient Aliens

07/25/2014 9:39 PM

Papa was a rolling stone..................................................

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#13

Re: Ancient Aliens

07/25/2014 7:53 PM

It's also interesting how a group of 18 students was able to walk a Rapa Nui replica statue down the road by manipulating ropes....

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#14
In reply to #13

Re: Ancient Aliens

07/25/2014 7:58 PM

And the statue was blindfolded, too!

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#15
In reply to #14

Re: Ancient Aliens

07/25/2014 8:37 PM

Most think these statues(Moai) faced the ocean and were meant to intimidate enemies....In fact they faced away from the ocean and gazed into the sky....Except for the Ahu Akivi site....

"Ahu Akivi is an especially sacred place. Ahu Akivi is a sanctuary and celestial observatory built about 1500 AD. As in the case of many religious structures on Easter Island, it has been situated with astronomical precision. Its seven statues look towards the point where the sun sets during the equinox. The site is unique in that it is located far inland with statues being erected to face the ocean. This is the only site where this was done. "

"There are at least 288 Moai of which once stood upon massive stone platforms called Ahu. There are some 250 of these Ahu platforms spaced approximately one half mile apart and creating an almost unbroken line around the perimeter of the island. Out of the 887 statues in total, of which 288 arrived at their destination, 92 were abandoned while in transit, and 397 were never fully realized or were left behind in the Rano Raraku quarry.

The tallest Moai erected, called Paro, was almost 33 feet tall and weighed 75 metric tons.The heaviest erected was a shorter but squatter Moai at Ahu Tongariki, weighing 86 tons. The most common Moai ranged from 12 to 20 feet.All but 53 of the 887 moai known to date were carved from tuff (a compressed volcanic ash). At the end of carving they would rub the statue with pumice from Rano Raraku. There are 13 Moai carved from basalt, 22 from trachyte and 17 from fragile red scoria."
http://www.tokenrock.com/explain-easter-island-57.html

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#27
In reply to #14

Re: Ancient Aliens

07/26/2014 1:59 AM

(Splarf) Damn... gotta clean out the keyboard now

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#16
In reply to #13

Re: Ancient Aliens

07/25/2014 8:40 PM

Awesome...thanks for that!

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#18

Re: Ancient Aliens

07/25/2014 10:48 PM

At one point in the sixties, I and another Englishman worked for a company in Philly that had an ID card that said the person was an American citizen; ours were overstamped with, "ALIEN", in red, diagonally across the whole thing. Neither of us was ancient at the time though.

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#19

Re: Ancient Aliens

07/25/2014 10:51 PM
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#20

Re: Ancient Aliens

07/25/2014 11:32 PM

http://mysteriousuniverse.org/2014/02/super-megalithic-site-found-in-russia-natural-or-man-made/

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#21

Re: Ancient Aliens

07/26/2014 12:29 AM

I have always thought that ancient (not primitive) people had neat tricks for getting things done, whether or not slaves were involved or not. You can't just tell ten thousand slaves to build a pyramid. They would just mill around and wonder what they were supposed to be doing.

The pyramids apparently had external ramps that wrapped around the pyramid and were used to pull the stones up to the top. Then the ramps were filled in with blocks. Apparently you can still see the signs of the ramps now, with the right photography.

There are plenty of tricks that anyone can use to magnify small motions into forceful large motions. You can push on a street sign, and never move it much, but if you grab it with just thumb and forefinger and push it back and forth at its resonant frequency you can break it off at the base.

As the video posted by SolarEagle shows, the Easter Island figures "walked" from the quarry to their final location by getting them rocking, and then pivoting them a little bit on each cycle, to move them forward a foot or so at a time.

These techniques have in common a way of using harmonic motion to store up enough energy to get larger things done, but there are many other ways to store up energy.

As for shaping stone, one researcher speculated that the Egyptians actually molded the stones using a kind of concrete. No cutting required.

I'll bet that most of the people commenting here could come up with a way for just one person, or very few people, to move an arbitrarily large block of stone from the bottom of a pyramid to the top. Say a 100 ton block, just as an example.

It's probably obvious that I have a plan in my head already.

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#28
In reply to #21

Re: Ancient Aliens

07/26/2014 2:53 AM

Just some links to add to your excellent post. (Mr. Ronsetto, please stop watching that channel...its messing with your better judgement! We KNOW the answers posed by that foolish TV show! Canary's has most of them nailed, and this post is just some links anybody can suss out!)

Not concrete...we know where the quarry was. In fact, this wiki article believes the great Sphinx is sitting in one of them.

Also, they were not built with slaves, but as a sort of welfare system. Gangs of free workmen competed with each other to move stones. And yeah, it took awhile. Seems there are times when nobody can do anything because of the flooding, yet people have to eat. The granaries were opened to those who worked. Oh well, beats football or welfare I suppose.

There have been questions raised about the "pyramid inch", and the "pyramid cubit" which was a multiple of Pi times a cubit. Caused all sorts of idle and ultimately useless speculation which lasted for nearly a century. Eventually, it was discovered that they used a wheel a cubit across to measure out the lengths per side.

It was discovered that powdered wet limestone makes a great grease. As I found out upon trying to climb the Cumberland Gap a few years ago in the rain.

And lastly, you can see the vestiges of the ramps. Which were often built from bricks and such, and there is still one in place.

I am looking forward to seeing your plan in action!

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#31
In reply to #28

Re: Ancient Aliens

07/26/2014 6:19 AM

"...they were not built with slaves..."

.

I do appreciate the link you provided, but that source in itself doesn't say much about how they arrived at the idea. The wording used in the link is telling though;

.

'...The pyramid builders were not slaves but peasants conscripted...'

.

Slave, conscript, indentured servant... indeed there are difference, but mainly in prospects and timeline for being released from compulsory labor.

.

Even, "hey, everyone who works can eat from the granary" might not be as free-market, even-handed, egalitarian as it seems at first blush, especially if all food production/farm land for a very large area was fairly tightly regulated.

.

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#43
In reply to #31

Re: Ancient Aliens

07/26/2014 8:24 PM

Always looking at the down side. Whats the alternative? Even now?

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#47
In reply to #43

Re: Ancient Aliens

07/26/2014 9:04 PM

That's not the down side.... its actually pretty squarely in the center. It just looks like the down side... from your vantage, way up there in Canada.

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#38
In reply to #28

Re: Ancient Aliens

07/26/2014 1:46 PM

Thanks for the kind words.

Unfortunately, you will not see my plan in action. It would take years of hauling baskets of sand up a pyramid, and I don't think I want to spend the rest of my life doing that. On the other hand if I could get a thousand people to haul sand up a pyramid for a week, it could work.

I was thinking about how all native people use the resources at hand. I once read an account of an Inuit man who was in jail in the dead of winter. He apparently broke out and made a dog sled entirely out of ice in mere minutes, and vanished into the wilderness. Of course, to him, it was not wilderness but home.

I think the Egyptians had a lot of sand, wind, rope and wood. And people. And gravity. Can't forget the gravity of the situation.

Another problem is that now I have 3 plans instead of 1, but the one I like the best could be done by one person over the course of many years. At the end of the process the block just suddenly starts rising up the side of the pyramid, as if by ... um ... gravity.

The easiest plan, though, is no longer possible. It depends on a resource that only existed way back at the time of the Pharoahs: "There were giants in the earth in those days." Genesis 6:4

Oh, well, maybe there will be transformers on the earth in the future.

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#42
In reply to #38

Re: Ancient Aliens

07/26/2014 8:10 PM

..."made a dog sled entirely out of ice in mere minutes, and vanished into the wilderness."...

They couldn't follow him because he left a cold trail....

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#58
In reply to #42

Re: Ancient Aliens

07/27/2014 3:03 PM
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#59
In reply to #21

Re: Ancient Aliens

07/28/2014 4:25 AM

Do tell!

I have spent time at and within the Giza pyramids and Sphinx complex.

It's easy to discuss 100t blocks if you've never been up close and personal with one.

This is indeed awesome engineering under discussion here. Wouldn't surprise me at all if alien technology was at work.

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#60
In reply to #59

Re: Ancient Aliens

07/28/2014 6:26 AM

(Slaps furry head with paw)

Go sit on the naughty step.

It's like that Simpsons episode where he says, if there's anything you can't explain a wizard did it.

Del

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#67
In reply to #59

Re: Ancient Aliens

07/28/2014 12:09 PM

I can think of hundreds of reasons why aliens would not do this (assuming that just happened upon us), but I can't think of one valid reason they would.

However, I would be happy to listen to any good reasons you think why they would.

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#71
In reply to #67

Re: Ancient Aliens

07/28/2014 4:32 PM

How good? As good as the reasons humans do things?

Kilroy was here.

To get into the Galactic Book of World Records for:

- the structure furthest from the galactic center

- the structure with the most people wondering how it was made

- the structure with the most people wondering why it was made

- the structure that survives the longest

With this pyramid we claim this planet for the Ognogg Corporation. We'll be back in a few galactic years after we go register it in the Planetary Pioneering Office, and then convert the primitive humans to pure psychic energy to sell to the tourists when their Warp Drives run out of antimatter.

Okay, if you lose the next hand, you have to build a stone pyramid in a desert somewhere out in the galactic boonies, using nothing but a single blortsnort.

Hey, we're going around in circles. Let's build a pyramid on this planet so we'll know if we ever come through this system again. Make sure it will last awhile.

We can sharpen our light sabers by putting them under the pyramid for a few thousand years. Be right back.

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#73
In reply to #71

Re: Ancient Aliens

07/28/2014 4:39 PM

You would do far better putting a flag on the Moon where it will most likely be there for tens to hundreds of millions year, perhaps more.

If you are concerned about a meteor impact, plant a half a dozen of them at different paces.

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#74
In reply to #73

Re: Ancient Aliens

07/28/2014 5:01 PM

Nah. People steal moons.

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#77
In reply to #74

Re: Ancient Aliens

07/28/2014 9:51 PM

"Or terraform them! Type III nymphs these days! What's a progenitor to do!?!"

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#92
In reply to #73

Re: Ancient Aliens

07/30/2014 4:17 PM

"You would do far better putting a flag on the Moon where it will most likely be there for tens to hundreds of millions year, perhaps more."

Unless you knock it down when you blast off.

Neil: "Oops"

Buzz: "What's wrong?!?!"

Neil: "Relax. We're fine, ship's fine. Nothing to be concerned about. I'll tell you after we splashdown (and we're not being recorded any more.)"

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#75
In reply to #59

Re: Ancient Aliens

07/28/2014 5:30 PM

Levers and wheels still work no matter how big the block. Archimedes said with a lever long and a fulcrum to match enough he could move the world. Don't let sheer size daunt you. If you attached an ordinary sail from a sailboat to the block, how big would it have to be to roll the block onto its side in a decent wind?

On the other hand, from what I have seen I also would not be surprised if alien technology was at work. Maybe from the British Isles. Those Druids were looking for a more challenging job after they finished Stonehenge.

Or maybe extraterrestrial alien technology was a work. But I'm not willing to let sheer awesomeness be the only reason to believe that. I'd need some actual evidence.

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#94
In reply to #21

Re: Ancient Aliens

07/30/2014 5:52 PM

I would be very happy if you could could lay out a plan of how to move that 100 ton block to the top of the pyramid without the use of modern tools. It might be possible to move smaller stones, say a ton or so up a ramp, but moving a 100 ton block using a ramp would take a year or two per block (if even possible). Moving 100 tons on a level surface is bad enough, but on a slope; It's inconceivable to me at least. I'm not sure of the supply of wood in Egypt. It appears to be all sand with very little vegetation. it appears the only raw materials they had was granite, sand and water.

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#95
In reply to #94

Re: Ancient Aliens

07/30/2014 6:56 PM

OK, I've got about 6 plans now. Oops, 7. No, now I have 8.

1. Use counterweights as I described in post #76.

2. Mount the block on rollers. Get a shovel. Dig under the pyramid and undermine it until it sinks into the ground. Keep undermining it until the destination point on the pyramid block is below the level of the ground. Fill in the hole with the pyramid inside, enough to leave a downhill slope from the block to the destination. Roll the block downhill to the destination point on the pyramid. Finish filling in the hole until the pyramid is completely hidden. This has been done thousands of times in Egypt, with pyramids much larger than the Great Pyramids of Giza, but you just can't see the pyramids because they are all buried.

3. There were giants in those days. Get a giant. Be nice to him or her. Ask him or her to put the block on the pyramid.

4. Write a nice note asking someone to please put the block on the pyramid. Put it in a safe place. Wait until someone invents a way to do that, like one or more locomotives pulling on steel cables. Hope they find the note. Hope they still like Egyptians enough to do them a favor. (Results may vary.)

5. Build a big wooden boat or flotation device capable of carrying the block, but build it at the location of the block, with the block already inside. Build a wall of glazed bricks around and under the boat, to make a waterproof moat just slightly larger than the boat. Reinforce the wall on the outside with sand and rocks. Start filling the moat with water until the boat floats in the moat. (Kudos to Dr. Suess.) Build the moat higher. Add more water. Build higher. Etc. When the boat is higher than the destination point on the pyramid, build a ramp downward to the pyramid. Slide the boat down to the pyramid. Dismantle (or burn) the boat.

6. Mount the block on two or more rolling frames, like from the link in comment #30. (If the block is resting on the ground, you can do that by digging out each end of the block and attaching the frames on each side, and then digging out the middle so it is resting on the frames.) Attach a large sail from a sailboat or ship to the side of the block, sticking up in the air. Wait until the wind pushes it over, in the uphill direction, and put a block under it so it doesn't roll down again. Take the sail off and put back on again sticking up in the air. Wait until the wind pushes it over again, and move the block. Repeat. (Or design a mechanism that lets you just rotate the sail upward again without removing it from the block.)

7. Get a block. Excavate the rock underneath the block in the shape of a pyramid, with the block already in place.

8. Tell everyone that on a certain day you will magically move the block to the top of the pyramid. On that day, tell everyone that they have to wear special glasses to protect their eyes from the magic. Give them glasses with "lenses" made of wood just for the purpose of looking at the pyramid. Tell them that you did it. Tell them that they are not allowed to check if the block is on the pyramid because it is dangerous to walk up a pyramid with glasses with wooden "lenses".

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#99
In reply to #95

Re: Ancient Aliens

07/31/2014 5:57 AM

I am getting a little fed up with the silly answers people are posting. This site is supposed to be for problem solving yet I see very little evidence of people having a serious crack at the fundamental problem of moving very large stones hundreds of feet in the air 'without extra terrestrial support'. Yes they did it but HOW? Can I take you back to my original post which proposed a strong theory and solves a lot of the problems. LEXXTEX - 293 Youtube. This guy suggests external ramps wouldn't work because you would lose line of sight for getting the sides accurate. So he proposes internal ramps. Furthermore he suggests how the cap stone could be moved up with each level. He suggests that the grand gallery was used as a counterbalance slope for hauling the large granite roof supports and shows evidence of rope wear within. He is an architect by training and has some good ideas that without excavation are difficult to prove.

Nobody has yet said how to hollow out a granite block. External flat faces yes but internal? They did it but how?

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#101
In reply to #99

Re: Ancient Aliens

07/31/2014 11:49 AM

Two of my suggestions were serious suggestions about how a small team could move a 100 ton block up a pyramid. It does not suggest that is how the Egyptians did it. #1 uses counterweights. #6 uses the wind.

I admit I surrounded them with humorous replies that were just exercises in "out of the box thinking." I don't really know for sure that "there were giants in those days."

There have been many comments that address your question directly, including the link to that web site about building pyramids. Though when you talk about the problem of moving large stones hundreds of feet in the air, I hope you mean hundreds of feet up a pyramid. I don't think anything but aliens would have thought about moving them hundreds of feet in the air.

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#97
In reply to #94

Re: Ancient Aliens

07/31/2014 12:08 AM

Well, they had a LOT of money, and as we know, lots of money can buy pretty much anything. I imagine a few ropes or chains (or even bronze or later on, iron rollers!) would not be un-affordable. They had wheels and rollers, but I don't think they used them except to transport workers to the job site. (Actually, come to think of it, they lived on the job sites in barracks). Egyptian international trade brought in buckets of gold. They also had an awesome mining industry....everything from Alabaster to really precious stones. And once a year, the entire country flooded, making it into the largest canal-highway system on Earth. (Load up your barge, wait a month....grin!)

Egypt is a historian's dream. They wrote EVERYTHING down somewhere, including how to do stuff. All the tools are depicted in paintings. Lots of them look pretty modern, but are made from copper and bronze. Stone is cut with feathers. (no not bird feathers, mason's feathers are long skinny wedges which drop into drill holes. I have no idea if that is how the Egyptians did it, but they had wedges and must have known how to use them to apply pressure. The sandstone blocks were cut the old fashioned way, with gouges and hammers. We know that because there are still hundreds of blocks only half cut in the quarries. Tools for moving big blocks include lots of dumb or hungry men and lots of ropes. ( I am always scared of a roller on a ramp, so the limestone grease is a little safer...maybe. I know it works better than I expected!)

So, whether we know how they did it or not (which of course we DO know because the proof is in the archaeology.) really does not matter, there is plenty of evidence that they DID drag very heavy blocks up ramps...we have the ramps, we have the grooves in the bricks and stones they used as pavement. If we cannot get our head around how long or how much effort it must have taken, that is not their fault! We know how long it took, so they must have done it in that time frame, whether we believe it or not! And they did it the hard way.

What we do NOT have is any evidence of magic, time travel, aliens or for that matter, a Republican conspiracy to follow to a conclusion. I guess I am suggesting that a few hours studying the archaeology will simply blow all the above out of the water. Or a visit to the area would be quite interesting. Lots of things to see and do.

In Vatican square and in another square in Rome, and a few more places in Rome, (as well as one in Paris and one in New York City!) there are huge monuments called "needles". They were moved from the quarries of Egypt to Rome by Romans. The needles are MUCH heavier than the average pyramid block. Yet, the technology was about the same of that of the ancient Egyptians. We know how they did it, they (the Romans) wrote it all down!

So the real mystery is why anybody still thinks there is a mystery.

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#107
In reply to #97

Re: Ancient Aliens

07/31/2014 5:34 PM

I will add that in Rome, they did not clearly write everything down. We only in the last decade "discovered" the Colosseum had a roof that was rolled out and back. For centuries we KNEW it was an open air stadium.

I always try to keep in mind how much we do not know but merely think we know.

The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge.
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#105
In reply to #94

Re: Ancient Aliens

07/31/2014 4:49 PM

I don't think that the blocks weigh anywhere near 100 tons. I also did not find any reference to such huge blocks anywhere. Where did you get your infos from?

Erring by a factor of up to 100 times is a large error....

1 to 2.5 Tons if I remember correctly.....

It was still a magnificent job though!!

From here:-

the-great-pyramid-and-transport-of-heavy-stone-blocks

the first paragraph reads:-

We have all ever wondered how the ancient Egyptians were able to transport the 2.5 million limestone blocks to build the Great Pyramid. The handling of stone blocks with a weight from one to several tons in such a quantity is a gigantic operation, even in our days.

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#29

Re: Ancient Aliens

07/26/2014 3:18 AM

After watching the "Mermaid" segment on the same network, I've come to the conclusion mermen made them when these areas were under water. Mermen were forced into subservience at the behest of the mermaids.

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#32

Re: Ancient Aliens

07/26/2014 6:31 AM

I have been to the pyramids and inside one and they are truly magnificent. I think the idea of internal ramps as shown in the link video is very plausible. The other challenge was how to hollow out a thin walled deep granite sarcophagus with perfectly flat inner walls and square corners. Clearly they had a way but it has long since been lost. If you have you ever banged a granite stone with another pebble on the beach you will appreciate the hardness. Did they use heat? Equally Mayan rock carving is just as fascinating. They were very clever people.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YTgxGJfXRQ0

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#39
In reply to #32

Re: Ancient Aliens

07/26/2014 2:29 PM

"....with perfectly flat inner walls..."

.

How 'perfect', exactly?

.

"....Clearly they had a way but it has long since been lost....."

.

I'm not convinced this loss has been well demonstrated. Even today when there is requirement for large very flat surfaces, hand scraping is still one of the best options. Scraping is not hard to figure out and neither is the process of developing very flat surfaces to be used as references.

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#40
In reply to #39

Re: Ancient Aliens

07/26/2014 7:03 PM

I'm not into aliens etc but please read this book written apparently by an engineer who speaks of the accuracy of the sarcophagus in terms of using an engineers parallel and observing no light passing through apart from one area where the gap was a few thousands of an inch. Internal corner radii of 1 mm and 11 mm between the floor and sides. Also he observes the accuracy of the 90 degree angle between the sides. Fascinating reading. We cannot simply pass this off without awe and wonder. I think if you asked a mason to make you a replica they would be scratching their heads.

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=e45KvhofGKMC&pg=PA147&lpg=PA147&dq=egypt+flatness+of+granite&source=bl&ots=bVY56sU6BI&sig=HFGxvmP_ofzWg6KrIneI8s1aQR8&hl=en&sa=X&ei=9S3UU_-WE4-e7Abj6YCoDQ&ved=0CEgQ6AEwBQ#v=onepage&q=egypt%20flatness%20of%20granite&f=false

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#44
In reply to #40

Re: Ancient Aliens

07/26/2014 8:53 PM

Interesting.

Many of the pages in the Google book review are missing, but I do find it interesting. I have to tell you though, something caught my eye in the brief once over I gave it that make me a little uncertain about how much confidence I should have in the writers assessment of the dimensions.

.

After attesting to how absolutely flat the sides were...with the exception of light shining under where there were depressions, the author moved to remarking on how square the corners were:

.

'....On three corners, the square sat flush against both surfaces. The forth corner has a gap that was detected by the light test, though its variance from being a true square may have been no more than 0.002"...."

.

This statement is troubling for a number of reasons. It gives me a sense he is in the habit of just winging it, since there is no remark about how he put the upper bounds of .002" on the gap.

.

It also suggests he isn't that familiar with evaluating the dimensions of an object for a couple of reasons. First, something would not be out of square by a length, but by an angle. Second, the idea of three corners being right angles, but the forth not, should have raised immediate concerns.... either the walls are not as flat as he thought, or the angles he measured are not all in the same plane.

.

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#50
In reply to #44

Re: Ancient Aliens

07/27/2014 6:56 AM

Yes I agree on some of your points he quoted some strange numbers, I wonder if he was calculating and didn't round up or something similar. It would be interesting to find another more in depth study of this but from seeing the inside of the tomb and the sarcophagus at first hand I can vouch for it being a great example of craftsmanship. It reminds me of hollowed out sheep drinking troughs found in England but they were made of softer stone. Also as an apprentice making a square edge in filed steel and using the square and the light method I found it hard enough to get that flat, glad they didn't ask me to do it in granite.

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#93
In reply to #40

Re: Ancient Aliens

07/30/2014 5:36 PM

A lot of things are awesome to those who are not experts. Before you say that if you asked a mason (preferably a stonecarver) to make a replica they would be scratching their heads, you should actually ask a mason (stonecarver). I understand that many physicists have been fooled by professional magicians, not because the professional magicians were using alien technology, and not because the physicists were not smart, but because they were not in on the tricks.

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#106
In reply to #93

Re: Ancient Aliens

07/31/2014 5:11 PM

"I understand that many physicists have been fooled by professional magicians, not because the professional magicians were using alien technology, and not because the physicists were not smart, but because they were not in on the tricks."

Exactly.

Last night I watched an episode of Pen & Teller: Fool Us. The show is basically a roving audition forum for opening acts for P&T's Vegas act. The premise is that if you can do a magic trick and P&T cannot figure out how you did it, then you've earned a spot to open for them in Vegas.

An act that really demonstrates what you are getting at was the magic duo of Young & Strange who were on last night ( One has the surname Young, the other has the surname Strange. They're British. ). They came on and were claiming that they were going to do an escapology act, and they introduced the chest Mr. Strange was going to escape out of, made of 'Fine English Oak' ("that means 'heavy'" quips the downtrodden and more pessimistic of the pair, Mr. Strange) and with two coats of quality lacqour paint (the second coat of which is still damp, as the paint stained Strange's hand when he placed it on top of the chest).

They put the heavy chest on a a freshly laid carpet (or in this case, a roll of Linoleum sheet, couldn't afford real carpet) to prove that a trapdoor on the bottom, if any, would be useless, then showed the bag Strange would be tied up in during the trick. They showed the bag, but did not pull it out of the chest.

At this point I guessed 'correctly' that the bag is fastened to the box and that there is an escape door on the back of the chest, easily accessible through the open bottom of the bag fastened around it. Strange is put into the bag and locked into the trunk. Young then puts on some 'admittedly cheezy' music and runs offstage to grab a large flag to dance with.

He puts the flag in a stand on the stage, then pulls in a screen from the wings. Young picks up the flag and dances around some more, passing behind the screen with the flag clearly visible overt the top of the barrier, and Strange emerges from the other side, waving the flag. During the brief time behind the barrier, the flag was always moving fluidly, so the hand-off was flawless.

Strange then puts the flag on the flag stand again, pulls the screen aside, unlocks the chest, and unties the bag to reveal -not Young, but some showgirl we hadn't seen before. The two of them point into the audience at Young who is racing down the isle from the lobby back to the stage.

Magic is a minor hobby of mine, I love figuring out 'how they do it,' and I got fooled by this act, when they pulled the screen up I was expecting Metamorphisis, where the magician and assistant trade places in the bag-in-a-box, but normally the bag is shown to be seperate from the box, so you don't suspect the easy-open seam at the bottom of the bag. They did Metamorpisis, but with a third actor, which threw me off, the reason it's typically a two-person routine is so that you think you're keeping track of both people during the act. Hiding the showgirl in the large bag inside the trunk is a trivial illusion, but the surprise distracts you long enough to miss how the one actor gets off the stage when nothing had been moved to cover his dash into the wings.

Just like in many Math courses, the subject seems daunting, impossible, even insanity-inducing before you start learning it, ("The rate of change in Y in a function when the two X reference points are reduced to the same point? How can you measure change over time when you don't allow time to pass?") but once you know how it's done, it becomes easy. ("Oh, that's just Derivative Calculus, I thought you were going to hit me with Integral Calculus, THAT stuff is a pain to work out, because you have to keep trying different things to convert the equation into a form that CAN be integrated, and much of that is trial and error, it's tedious.")

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#33

Re: Ancient Aliens

07/26/2014 7:17 AM

I used to work at a college where they had used limestone blocks for the original buildings, and had a chance to watch a wing being added to one of these. They brought in all sorts of cranes and hoists and such, but the corners were done by an old mason who had a bucket full of strings, wooden wedges, and hammers. Oh, he also had three or four young helpers. While everyone else would be using their levels and transits, the old guy would squint down one way, then down the other, finally he would tell the helpers to hoist up a block. Then he would wedge it one way, then the other. He would squint a little more, have them turn the block up so he could hit the bottom a couple times, and wedge it around some more. When he was happy, the helpers mortared the stone in place, but the stone already was stable without any mortar.

The thing is, the most important part - the corners - was done by a guy using the same techniques probably available to people 3000 years ago. The "dumb" part of the work was done by others using modern tools.

Of course, the old guy would not be allowed to work today. He didn't wear a hard hat or safety goggles. His son told me he had never worn goggles and had never gotten an eye injury in the forty or fifty years he had been a mason. I watched him, and he blinked in time with hammer strikes. His face would get hit with stone particles, but his eyes would be shut. Simple, primitive, effective.

The really sad part is that none of those buildings have been built since about 1970. There aren't enough of those old masons left to do it. It's not that we forgot how to do the work, we just forgot to pay for good work.

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#46
In reply to #33

Re: Ancient Aliens

07/26/2014 9:03 PM
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#35

Re: Ancient Aliens

07/26/2014 11:15 AM

Ancient Aliens before? I would say NO.... Illegal Aliens now? A lot!

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#49

Re: Ancient Aliens

07/27/2014 4:23 AM

Indeed, Just how did ET do it all......

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#51

Re: Ancient Aliens

07/27/2014 9:56 AM

The technology of using a string to make straight lines is pretty old. You can use the same string to make perfect 90deg angles by using the 3 - 4 - 5 rule. If you put a weight on the end of the string you can make a perfect vertical line. Combine that with the 3-4-5 rule and you can make a level line. What else do you need? Circles, no problem, hold one end of the line in place and move the other end,you have a circle.

Levers and ramps were known entities long before then. I see no problem in the engineering and building of the pyramids with simple tools that were available many years before they were built. That combined with massive number of laborers, and lifetimes to work...what's the problem?

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#111
In reply to #51

Re: Ancient Aliens

08/01/2014 11:50 PM

What kind of knowledge they possessed to decide the angle of slope of the pyramid so that over a period of time it won't collapse due to its own weight or small tremors?. What is the exact angle of sides of pyramids in Egypt,what made them to choose that value?. Over a period of about 4000 years were there any tremors or earth quakes in that area?.

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#112
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Re: Ancient Aliens

08/04/2014 12:15 PM

They found out by using the most common method known: Trial and error.

First they practiced and found out ways that didn't work. "As of November 2008, 118 Egyptian pyramids have been identified." That's 118 that we know of. There may be more.

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#114
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Re: Ancient Aliens

08/07/2014 5:04 PM

Exactly, there's also that one pyramid, I forget its name, that changes its slope partway up, as if it was becoming unstable and so the designer in charge reduced the slope so A) there would be less weight added to the existing mess, and B) so it could be 'capped off' sooner.

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#116
In reply to #114

Re: Ancient Aliens

08/08/2014 3:52 AM

'forget it's name ? That's a bit like 'having an evening' with your all time fantasy, then blundering more by asking what she would like for breakfast.

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#119
In reply to #116

Re: Ancient Aliens

08/08/2014 10:00 AM

Sorry, I'm not a big pyramidologist. Pyramids were built all over the world simply because they're the easiest stable shape to make using the construction technique of 'stacking things on top of other things with no mortar, glue, screws, nails, welding, or rebar.'

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#63

Re: Ancient Aliens

07/28/2014 9:42 AM

Tesla was an a alien!

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#68
In reply to #63

Re: Ancient Aliens

07/28/2014 12:45 PM

If Tesla only knew of the sheer scale of pseudoscientific bullsh!t that has been ascribed to him by the tinfoil-hat crowd, he'd be spinning in his grave. Tesla was a genius, to be sure. Too bad the same cannot be said for his tinfoil-cult followers.

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#70
In reply to #68

Re: Ancient Aliens

07/28/2014 4:00 PM

Considering his love for rotating fields, I'd hazard a guess that Tesla would ENJOY spinning in his grave.

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#72
In reply to #70

Re: Ancient Aliens

07/28/2014 4:36 PM

If there was one person who might actually be spinning in his grave, it would be him.

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#65

Re: Ancient Aliens

07/28/2014 11:53 AM

Who you calling 'ancient'?

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#79

Re: Ancient Aliens

07/29/2014 2:14 PM

Had to be aliens. The Egyptian desert is dotted with lots and lots of smaller pyramids, beginning early with step pyramids, and many have collapsed. I realize that they got better at building them over time, but without Six Sigma and Lean tools and methodologies, they could never have been able to improve enough to build the Great Pyramids at Giza.

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#80
In reply to #79

Re: Ancient Aliens

07/29/2014 2:21 PM

At least they didn't have OSHA to contend with. You think those stonemasons wore compound-eye protection?

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#81
In reply to #80

Re: Ancient Aliens

07/29/2014 2:38 PM

More evidence of aliens! Do we see any heiroglyphs of people holding their hands to their eyes? Of smashed fingers and thumbs? Of sunburn and back strain? The aliens protected them!

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#82
In reply to #81

Re: Ancient Aliens

07/29/2014 2:46 PM

They were all aliens then, like OSHA is now, except that they used stone for their pyramids.

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