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Electron Spin

08/19/2014 8:06 AM

do they spin clockwise or counter clock? I don't really care I just wanted a thread that didn't trumpet gender

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#1

Re: Electron Spin

08/19/2014 8:44 AM

Quite.

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#13
In reply to #1

Re: Electron Spin

08/19/2014 6:32 PM

Amazing how fast that Other Thread was whisked off the Front Page and into the shadows. For awhile I couldn't even find it, which leaves me wondering: would it have fared better had its author been female?

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#14
In reply to #13

Re: Electron Spin

08/19/2014 6:50 PM

No, the two blatantly offensive, sexist, non-engineering reports are still "mysteriously" part of the "latest engineering news" menu for no apparent reason other than editorial approval for sloppy sensationalism.

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#15
In reply to #14

Re: Electron Spin

08/19/2014 7:07 PM

Yep. And this in the face of the sheer volume of geniune news Out There from which they could have drawn their articles instead? You'd think from their choices of late that there was a dearth of anything genuinely newsworthy to put up on an engineering forum. Well, there isn't. There is more going on scientifically and technologically right now than at any other time in Human History and that's a fact. If they can't find anything better to blog about then they're not looking. That or they have an agenda.

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#2

Re: Electron Spin

08/19/2014 8:57 AM

Depends if your looking up or down at them. Down one has two.... Sorry I almost fell for the Jerry Springer trap.

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#3

Re: Electron Spin

08/19/2014 10:13 AM

they don't spin, they rotate

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#4
In reply to #3

Re: Electron Spin

08/19/2014 10:30 AM

I was taught that they orbit.

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#5
In reply to #4

Re: Electron Spin

08/19/2014 10:34 AM

geosynchronous?

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#7
In reply to #3

Re: Electron Spin

08/19/2014 12:03 PM

Both. Electrons have spin, and they 'orbit' the nucleus. (Though 'orbit' is a vague term here, since the motion is a 'cloud' of probability.)

For a Helium atom the lowest shell, or 'orbital', is filled with 2 electrons, one with spin up and one with spin down. (Or, one CW the other CCW.)

.

I know - nobody cares.

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#8
In reply to #7

Re: Electron Spin

08/19/2014 12:34 PM

Yes, but how many X and Y electrons does it have?

And, might helium be awarded (in the name of diversity) the coveted 'Element of the Year' award simply because enough X's are present?

I believe how Eu Mk II will vote is already clear

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#11
In reply to #8

Re: Electron Spin

08/19/2014 12:51 PM

To have one X there must be at least two p orbitals occupied. So carbon is the first element. To get two X's one could argue that either Neon or Florine has three or 2P orbitals must be needed making Silicon the first.

{I'm just geeking out! I miss Robin already.}

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#10
In reply to #7

Re: Electron Spin

08/19/2014 12:42 PM

Most at CR4 do not care but some certainly do care.

What's funny is that nobody (at least nobody I know of) is really sure what the up and down spins of an electron means outside of these two quantum states existing in any orbital. As for the orbitals themselves it is good to remember that the shapes of these orbitals is not the trajectory that the electron must take to be in that orbital. It is the spatial shape of a fixed standard probability (90%?) that one will find the electron in this region.

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#12
In reply to #7

Re: Electron Spin

08/19/2014 6:06 PM

Both 'spin' and 'orbit' take on new, non-Classical interpretations at quantum scales.

Let's start with 'orbit'. If electrons actually orbited nuclei in the sense of "going round and round the nucleus," matter as we know it would not exist. Why? Because when you accelerate a charged particle - any charged particle - it radiates its energy away in the form of electromagnetic waves. You see this all the time in synchrotrons, so much so that it's dubbed 'synchrotron radiation.'

Now acceleration can manifest as a change in velocity or change in direction, or both. Accleration is a vector, and vectors have two components: direction and magnitude. Only one component need change to quality as a bonafide acceleration and so, were these electrons to orbit the nucleus in the sense of going round and round, they would be continually accelerating, radiate their energy away in a tiny fraction of a second and fall into the nucleus. Well, they're obviously not falling into the nucleus and so what are they doing instead? They form probability waves surrounding the nucleus and this is also why electron orbitals are quantised: they can't 'orbit' just anywhere, but only where an integral number of wavelengths will fit in the available space. They're not orbiting because they can't. The term 'orbit' is a holdover from the Classical Era.

Spin is even less intuitive. To the limits of our instruments, electrons have no spacial extent. AFAWK, they have no size; apparently they're just tiny regions of space that happen to have mass and charge - and spin - but no physical extent.

Now, assuming for a moment that electrons have no size, how then can they spin in any conventional sense of the word? Looking at it a different way: a motor shaft has a radius and a circumference. If the motor is running, a point on the shaft will travel a certain distance around the shaft's axis in a certain amount of time. But, if we reduce the shaft's radius to zero, what then can be said of that point on the shaft? Is it still moving? How far? At radius zero, zero? And yet, electrons, having no spacial extent that we know of, spin. So, for electrons at least, spin must evidently have some other meaning than the usual classical one.

It gets worse: spin is quantised. It can only take on certain values and no others. You cannot make an electron spin faster nor can you slow it down. You cannot make it zero. An electron's spin is intrinsic and immutable. The only thing you can do with it is flip it over and, even then, up and down haven't the same meanings as they do in the Classical world. All of these are just clumsy, classical words attempting to describe a world bizarre beyond description.

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#6

Re: Electron Spin

08/19/2014 11:06 AM

Could they swing or dangle?

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#9

Re: Electron Spin

08/19/2014 12:34 PM

Depends if they are male or female.....

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#17
In reply to #9

Re: Electron Spin

08/19/2014 10:26 PM

Oops ... it is sneaking back into the general discussion again!

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#18
In reply to #17

Re: Electron Spin

08/19/2014 10:30 PM

& oppysite danunder!

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#19
In reply to #9

Re: Electron Spin

08/19/2014 10:54 PM

Boys have navigational equipment that girls lack. As this document explains,

https://www.ifa.hawaii.edu/friends/Technology_of_Oceania.pdf
the boy electrons will be better able to navigate their way around the atomic nucleus. It's not just Polynesian people who do/did this, it goes back a long time and diametrally through the globe.

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#16

Re: Electron Spin

08/19/2014 10:23 PM

Girl electrons clockwise, Boy electrons otherwise.

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