Crosscutting Natural Logs in Small Increments - Tabletops Artist Supply

The whole point of using teeth on the blade (no pun intended) is that the teeth can be set bent in alternate directions so that the kerf cut by them is wider than the body of the blade, thereby reducing the effort needed to complete the cut.

The techniques of shaping wood have been developed over many centuries. It matters little to the cut whether the blade is moved or the work instead, though moving the blade will ensure less effort is expended, thereby making the process more efficient and the effort more productive.

Most of that's done on a slide bed. That moves the log horizontally. Cut with a large band saw or a chain saw mounted vertically. Bed is either chain driven or hydraulic. On both the rate of feed can be controlled.

Then there is this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wj-USV0lSUA

If you want to cut slabs from it, you are asking for a lot of headaches as well as injuries.

One thing, due to the size of saw blade, Saw blades are hammered at a concave to put tension in the blade. And its hammered to a certain RPM so the blade flattens out due to Centripetal force. Not to mention the tooth geometry. and cross cutting, it would be a spring tooth instead of a swedge tooth. Similar to a cross cut saw buck, your better off with a chainsaw, with a long bar.

And no matter how slow or careful your are. with the rim speed of the blade, things happen real quick.

As was mentioned earlier. about cutting it at an angle, this may be an alternative.

When I was 15-16 years old, we felled an American Elm that had A 48" trunk, right at the time Dutch elm was becoming an issue. For my 4H project, I had cut a slab at an angle with a chainsaw, and used a powered hand planer to smoothed it out and made nice coffee table with a cedar stump at the bottom.

I had used a two part polyurethane to seal and give it a wet look finish. But this cost me quite a bit of cash (for a 16 year old) because I had to do it over.

If your interested, let me know and I'll pass on the problems I had.

You don't say what country your from. If USA, then Harbor Freight has a budget bandsaw mill under $2K. I got mine when on sale and with a 25% coupon (see item Item #61712). This uses a 12foot band blade.

If you want straight cuts with little saw kerf waist, this is the first choice.

The other method is a gas engine chainsaw (could be electric, but they are too light duty). You can buy attachments for them that control the slab thickness. You start by mounting a flat board on the log, this gives a flat reference for the first cut, then the saw uses the flat surface just created until you finish slicing the log.

See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chainsaw_mill

Friend of mine just bought one of those. They figured that have to do some refitting on it when they get it.

I'm curious to see it.

This is what we used on the farm. Today, they use band saws.720 × 540 - traditionalwoodworker.com

I don't quite understand, I think he wants to cut slabs off of it. (Rip)

those are Cross cut saws, I'm sure they have rip blades.

And of coarse being a green horn, he'd make some kind of guide maybe?....

That's because you didn't read the title of the thread.

I did, then I read slabs....

I give up.

"Crosscut" can only have one definition.

Cross cut then slab...

Anyways...

Is it true that you got a stiff neck because the Viagra you took got stuck in your throat?

No, I snort it. It makes my brain bigger.

Thread title: "Crosscutting natural logs in small increments"

Crosscut - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"A crosscut saw (thwart saw) is a general term for any saw blade for cutting wood perpendicular (against) the wood grain. (IN SMALL INCREMENTS)

OP isn't making a checker board! They are making ROUND table tops, "using 2 to 4" thick slabs" cut perpendicular (against) the wood grain.

Your Viagra must have gotten lodged sideways in your brain. That's the only think I can see that would make you so THICK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sorry, OP. We bicker like this sometimes. He's always wrong, but can't face reality.

You may be better off taking the log to a mill and paying them to cut it. They may even keep some of the "slabs" as payment.

ha, Feel better lyn, you google meister you?

nice googling..... Anyways, I didn't google it, but having worked on a sawmill for over 15 years (half of which as a teenager). The term slab is length wise...

in the mean time, Drink some water, it may help your stiff neck.

Obviously, it doesn't take intelligence to work "on" a sawmill.

<Bye>

Is that from google?

Because, it's not from experience, google don't count as experience.

See ya!

Ah, the old misery whip. I know them well.

Well, here's an added benefit for me, Misc.Expert, I saw this Box Lift - it's even air over hydo... and had to have it (I use it when ramp loading to keep the pallet level when winching it onto my truck) because I prefer to work alone. I'd never seen one before and if I'm wrong, and they are common place - please tell me..
Now to the chase - My theory was to secure the log (mine are cut into 2 to 3' lengths) and after elevating it, position the saw under it.My best "saw" to date consists of mounted on 2 pulleys (like bicycle wheels) that would enable the saw blade go back and forth. This gives many advantages as in the spots it attached to the pulleys, it could create a "path" for load control as well as cleaning out debris, and in very hard wood, the ability to put a catchment pan under it and use water and dust from most people's brains for lubricant.
I also (because I'm also IT and Security) have some very powerful electro-magnets around that might be configured to "encourage" the little saw blade to behave and cut straight.
I'm a 61 year old dairy farm boy from what used to be land between Baltimore and Washington, DC (re-named Hell by those there now, or close by) (21157).
I have thick skin, stroked, run down by a speeding car, etc, so let me have your thoughts please.
My father wouldn't allow me to use the word "can't" - I had to use "don't know how" or "don't want to"... so sometimes good ideas come from harsh and heavy criticism "as long as it's light in heart".
Have at it!
Off topic? Absolutely... maybe... not... Y'all's call.
Just say what you do - and do what you say -

You might consider selling the log as a whole to somebody with the know-how and equipment to make full use of the wood....You might inadvertently reduce the value by butchering at random....

It's probably worth more as lumber....here's just such a situation and discussion...

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?120768-Pecan-Tree-Value-and-Age-Guess-)

Some of these guys have probably given some good solutions for your situations but if you want to find gold, you don't ask copper miners.

I looked up and found that you want to properly dry your wood first and they recommend P.E.G. Wood treatment for drying your wood before crosscutting. It drys the wood and helps prevent cracking.

I've watched on telelevision a program that deals with taking old stumps and making creations, one was making a table top being cut from a huge Redwood stump. They used a crosscut saw that had a motor on it that pulled the blade back and forth. It was slow but did the same as with a guy on each end pulling the saw back and forth.

Wood motion (cracking) can be slowed with ethylene glycol.

Yup. Automotive antifreeze.

Though its interesting about the ethylene glycol, I didn't know that, don't know what I'd use it for, or if it would stain, but still interesting.

You stated it only slows cracking... there a lot of stress as it dry's. it has to be relatively dry, (didn't have a moisture tester). It will crack, after the finish. That's what happened to me.

It was a high gloss finish sealer. Sealed the top side, it was a few days before I could get to the back side to finish, and it already started cracking. Just from the change of bring it from our storage into the shop, this was 40+ years ago. and the cost back then was was about $50.00 in sealer. (used more than required. there was a crack on the top side, that I wanted to fill, didn't realize it went all the way through, and coated my cardboard underneath.)

But once you start sealing it, only wait as long as what the recommended drying time is so you can flip it.... no longer.

A buzz phrase in the commercial wood door industry is "Dimensional Instability".

This phrase explains away the tendency of wood doors to warp, rack, or even split the face veneers... sometimes after years of hanging in place satisfactorily.

Years Decades ago I helped a fellow in Montana who made furniture from the surrounding available material, coniferous logs. I helped to saw (with a misery whip shown in lyn's #7) many slabs destined for use as table tops. He religiously and generously used antifreeze, even as lubricant for the saw. The natural tendencies of the sawn slabs to warp, crack, check and split seemed to be somewhat arrested by the treatment, but there was still (a wild guess) about 50% loss, those being unsuitable for use as a saleable piece. The larger the pieces, the higher the loss rate.

His wood of choice (IIRC) was hemlock. I suspect that varied species of trees will yield equally varied results.

HEMLOCK!

A lot of old barns the support beams and columns are made out of hemlock.

But, I don't know if its a modern problem, around our area, when Hemlock gets 24" (at times 18") on the Stump, chances are pretty good the log has ring shake.

The good stuff is great building material though. And I can understand about the grain appearance.

Ah, Grasshopper, you snached the Stone from my palm.

Inaccurate eloquent negativity is the sign of in-balanced thought motivation. Why would one assume that if it were possible these small pieces would be larger? Truth be told the limiting safety and economic limitations prohibited it.

This is a situation where the goal is to make not only the most of a poor situation, but make it highly profitable.

I, throughout my life have used the demand vs. supply pricing - especially in forecasting. I had a client who made the initial tooling for Rubik's cube. If those here are slightly knowledgeable, they already know what that cost. The purchaser of the patent blew his brains out when the China copies were being off-loaded on the West Coast less than 2 months after it's debut. So much for Patents...

The beauty of this thread is 3 dimentional. For myself, I plan to get quite a lot of heat from this, as well as (think about this) offering a woodworker the purchase of a "set" of cross-cuts. One large, one or two mediums, (preferably one) and two small.

Now we have a matched set - table, coffee or book table, and end tables, from the same living (at one time) tree.

If I can patiently develop a reciprocating 50+ inch saw-blade, allowing the log to slowly descend, while recirculating the P. E. G. by shooting a stream to the cut for cleaning and cooling, I win.

Of coarse this requires the forklift to be mounted above the blade by the larges cut - 48". This thing is not lightweight. I am 61 and disabled with no capital, hence the decisions so far. I have acquired a 9' by 7' piece of shipping container wall - really strong stuff, in every aspect. Mounting it 4' in elevation with short sides allow the catchment and recirculation of the P. E. G., the challenge at this point is finding a lateral rail for the blade to rest on. The blade will have to be mounted on a 44" piece of sheet metal to keep it straight, and encourage no clogging of the shavings. I believe it worth spending the $ for a new blade. Motion control may involve pneumatics over direct drive... have no idea if that means anything.

What I am saying is the power needed is quite small EXCEPT direction change. The use of pneumatic (or hydraulic which is non-compressible) to slow the cutter, and push that energy to the other end helping it accelerate, would lessen the total energy used a lot.

I have it fairly well worked out in my head, but I'm a lousy drawer, but I am dealing with what was put on my plate, not trying to mass produce.

I think someone mentioned this cross-cut piece as available. I doubt that, not over 24 inches. The tree, (had caused damage to both houses twice before my son bought it) had to come down in short pieces, or liable other's property. The forklift or Box-lift I bought previously out of curiosity for $100.

I, until someone (who doesn't use can't) convinces me otherwise, will proceed with the 2 man 54" blade as time is on my side. I cannot imagine keeping a chainsaw blade straight, and here again, with cheap stuff I can detect a change in cut and correct in time. There are probably only a few (3 to 8) sets available from this tree. Saving any one of them will pay for all the equipment in the end.

Thank you all, I have been entertained, ridiculed (without getting that, generally you have nothing unique), and educated. You can't get too much of those extremes.

I'll keep you posted, and thanks - MiscExpert

Well, well, well.

When I originally authored my post it was injected (thank you) by the administrator(s).

My dad's standard sayings - and please realize I am extremely biased, but we are all losing the old folks sayings that were funny, but insightful, and used best in teaching as well as getting out of uncomfortable spots in conversing (a rare event today - people just talking to each other for mutual benefit).

• He said "never underestimate the average stupidity of the average person"...

Now especially for me, his 4th son, 6 years behind the "pack" and the only offspring interested in gaining all the incredible knowledge possessed by a dairy farmer in mid-20th century. A dairy farm then compiled so many analytical challenges that if you were not completely open-minded innovative, and a good neighbor your chance of success was poor. That is a reason so many farms were broken up - most people aren't smart enough to operate one. If you call a plumber, electrician and mechanic each time needed, you would Be broke in a month. His saying for me could have been applied many times here, as

• "Boy, there is no need for you to look dumb (intentional misuse of the word) AND act dumb - (because you can't help looking dumb!)"

To my assessment, my post seemed to come at a lucky time, so many Gurus, but so far no one has addressed some things that I asked or implied.

Remember please, the main reasoning driving this is that the tree is been downed for soon to be a year, violating city code possibly, and your's truly has the time, so we can take efficiency out of the important column.

After a year so far no or little splitting, but we have had an unusual humidity and rain, rain, rain.

Has anyone ever seen a box-lift like the yellow one? Is it uncommon?

In the forefront you can see the base pieces. 48" and awesome in shape.

I disagree with cutting at an angle, though I agree with it's pluses of slowing cracking, it has very bad things, like concentric and sharp edges.

Ask any artist if he had a canvas with a lined background especially concentric rings, even though not perfect, a cross cut is fine, but 45 degrees would affect anything that didn't block it out - in other words, instant Andy Warhol.

Tables are among people and kids - who wants something that really does hurt when you brush against or smack the hell out of it?

I did get a consensus, I believe, that it's doable, and some great info on the glycol... I was told additionally, to coat just the bark and about an inch or two onto the face to stop checking and cracking - the wood dries at different rates on the outside younger part, and slowing it down would help.

Even with some equipment on hand, how does this work out dollar wise? If I could get 2 inch final crosscuts of the 36 to 48" ones, there is certainly a demand - but does anyone know where to find the value?

In other words, what are these pieces worth? How small would be to small to fool with?

Well, hopefully that could set off a small flame-up... it was fun the first time!

Oh yeah, and the large electromagnet to help guide... (sorry)

Your box lift... marvelous. Use it. Should give consistent slices if lowered onto a running chainsaw. Don't slide the log or you'll likely get irregular thickness.

Oh yeah, and the large electromagnet to help guide... A no starter, waste of effort.

A felled pecan tree - 48" at bottom, presents an opportunity to cut "slabs" to be dried and used for furniture to an artist's canvas.

Furniture to an artists canvas?

What is that?

The tripod to which the canvass is attached??

Bad English form or muddled thought process,or both.

You made no mention of the tree being already cut into sections,so I pictured a whole tree.

Incomplete information in can result in erroneous information out.

The pictures at the beginning would have saved a lot of trouble and work.

Also an intelligent and thorough, thoughtful text stating the all of the facts would have also made more sense.

Ripping a whole tree into slices (slabs) requires a different approach than slicing a short piece of log(hence the link to to sawmills).

If you will look up 1/4 sawn wood,you will see that this method generates a very beautiful pattern, and is used for making door stiles(casing) because of it's dimensional stability and beauty.

It is obvious that you know nothing about the various wood cuts,and do not wish to learn.

You will also find that it sells for a premium,which you implied was the reason for processing the wood.

However,the pieces I see in your picture are too short to be useful for anything except firewood.

Now if you could have gotten the whole tree before it was sliced up, you would have a lot of money.

If you want a complete answer in the future, give complete information to begin with.

And your dad was right,"no need to act dumb" :all you have to do is act naturally.

Now if this offends you, there is another saying from my grandpa:

"If you throw a rock into a pack of dogs, the one that gets hit will holler"

I cannot disagree, but I think if you look at the amount of elapsed time from beginning to the end, and ad in the hilarious comments - I couldn't bring myself to stop it.

C'mon now - no one "wasted" or did serious figuring - and again, did anyone ask me?

I think you are being overcritical, but that I find amusing as well, IN a good way.

I'm not a newbie per say, and this forum rocked! I have poor future telling ability.

As for your grandpa - AWESOME!

I just think it is obvious that an artist would use this the way I said.

I do understand what your process, and have seen it, and I do agree. Although I fail to understand why the pieces in short lengths diminishes it - other than more waste. I care not about the amount, as it is free. Explain please?

Do a google search for pecan furniture grade wood.

The longer the planks, the better the price.

Not seen a listing for circular pieces,but it could be there somewhere.

You will see what I mean.

The shorter pieces bring a lot less money.

For all the trouble,I would burn it for heat,but that's just my opinion,I could be wrong.

But it is obvious that Google ing is not your forte.

Neither is English structure or grammar.

Another way to make money from this is to convert it to charcoal.

Real charcoal is hard to find,and brings top dollar.

Also imparts the finest flavor to anything on the grill.

Try it once, you will never go back to commercial charcoal.

Look on google to find out how to do it.

Grandpa also said :(A paraphrased biblical quote): "Do not cast you pearls(of wisdom) before swine....).

And with that ,I will exit 0 (exit Zero, a normal exit from Unix).

I thought you were looking for help.

By your last couple of comments, you are looking like an ass.

It just so happens that I used to cut down trees for the Department of Natural Resources in the State of Washington.

I've also made furniture and cabinets. That does not mean, I am that knowledgable in cross cutting a huge log for a table. That is why I said, "When looking for gold, don't ask a copper miner."

Everyone on here are Copper miners. We gave you suggestions in the best way we know how. Then you, the best you can find in yourself, is to insult people for not providing with exact information you wanted to hear.

What? I insulted no one in particular, and thanked many. If the shoe fits, wear it. The remarks I made are a product of thought, a lot of which was driven by the people generous enough to respond. I never, and won't live a life where negativity without benefit consciously controls my actions. Thanks, because without good we couldn't have bad - we are all important. If you have a place that I should be looking for help, which is why, obviously I reported my current thought process, just point.

Thanks again everyone.