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Anonymous Poster #1

Control Panel Specification

09/21/2014 9:55 PM

Hi,

What are the major parameters needed to be addressed for 400 volts control panels? These are to be used for controlling 18 gates of barrage? One control panel for one gate is planned.

Motors of appropriate rating should be controlled by each control panel for uprising or lowering gates. Gate position, Water level etc should be indicated.

Regs,

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#1

Re: Control Panel Specification

09/21/2014 10:35 PM

The major parameters are those that will be determined by the project manager and the project electrical, controls, mechanical and instrumentation engineers.

You are likely not in that group and should wait to be told what to do.

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#2

Re: Control Panel Specification

09/21/2014 11:35 PM

Seek literature on UL508, Industrial Control Panels. It has been some years since I worked in a UL508 panel shop, but if you have some specifics, I might be able to help. You need to protect the motor and wiring properly, and to account for the environment at the panel and motor installation.

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Anonymous Poster #1
#3
In reply to #2

Re: Control Panel Specification

09/22/2014 12:05 AM

Hi, general specs can be the following:

1. Standard size (for 400 volts)

2. Power Switch Device (SCR etc)

3. Shutdown device on SCR panels

4. Temperature Control Zones

5. Temperature Controller

6. Overtemperature Controllers

7. Main disconnect

8. Special features - gate position indication, water level indication, siren on/off indication, motor overload/overspeed protection, Load fusing, Load circuit breakers, On/Off switch, Ammeter, Voltmeter, GFI reset push button, Enclosure heater, Z purge, X purge, Partial load failure indication, AC on-off indication, shorted SCR detection, current transmitter, floorstand, panel lighting, pilot lights, dry contact output, others...............etc.

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#4
In reply to #3

Re: Control Panel Specification

09/22/2014 4:24 AM

That list seems to be able to answer the original question. Well done.

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#5
In reply to #3

Re: Control Panel Specification

09/22/2014 3:01 PM

Do not forget to specify the NEMA or whichever enclosure rating specifications you are subject to at your location for the ambient environment.

NEMA 1, NEMA 2, NEMA 3, NEMA 4, ?

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#6
In reply to #5

Re: Control Panel Specification

09/23/2014 2:45 AM

NEMA 1

NEMA 1 enclosures are typically used for protecting controls and terminations from objects

and personnel. This style of enclosure, while offering a latching door, does not have a

gasketed sealing surface. NEMA 1 enclosures are used in applications where sealing out

dust, oil, and water is not required. Motor start/stop stations are often housed in NEMA 1

enclosures.

NEMA 3R

NEMA 3R enclosures are typically used in outdoor applications for wiring and junction

boxes. This style of enclosure provides protection against falling rain, sleet, snow, and

external ice formation. Indoors they protect against dripping water. This style of enclosure

does not have a gasketed sealing surface. Some models have hasps for padlocking.

NEMA 3S

NEMA 3S enclosures are intended for outdoor use primarily to provide a degree of protection

against windblown dust, rain, sleet, and to provide for operation of external mechanisms

when ice laden.

NEMA 4

NEMA 4 enclosures are used in many applications where an occasional washdown occurs

or where machine tool cutter coolant is used. They also serve in applications where a pressurized

stream of water will be used. NEMA 4 enclosures are gasketed and the door is

clamped for maximum sealing. They have continuous hinges, mounting feet, and padlock

hasps. NEMA 4 enclosures are available in sizes from small wall mounts to two-door floor

mount models.

NEMA 4X

NEMA 4X enclosures are made of stainless steel or plastic. NEMA 4X enclosures are used in

harsher environments than standard NEMA 4 units. Applications where corrosive materials

and caustic cleaners are used necessitate the use of a NEMA 4X enclosure. Applications

include food, such as meat/poultry processing facilities, where total washdown with disinfectants

occur repeatedly and petro-chemical facilities, including offshore petroleum sites.

NEMA 4X is used when protection from the worst environments is required. NEMA 4X

enclosures are available in sizes from small wall mounts to two-door floor mount models.

Wiegmann NEMA 4X enclosures are made of 304 stainless steel.

NEMA 6P

NEMA 6P enclosures are intended for indoor or outdoor use primarily to provide a degree

of protection against the entry of water during prolonged submersion at a limited depth.

NEMA 12

NEMA 12 enclosures are designed to prevent the ingress of dust, water, and oil. NEMA 12

enclosures are most often used for indoor applications of automation control and electronic

drives systems. Some examples are packaging, material handling, non-corrosive process

control, and manufacturing applications. Gasketed doors seal the enclosure's contents from

airborne contaminants and non-pressurized water and oil. NEMA 12 enclosures are available

in sizes from small wall mounts to two-door floor mount models.

NEMA 4 & 12

Wiegmann's "412" enclosures combine the attributes of NEMA 4 and NEMA 12 in an attractive,

clean line enclosure. This enclosure features reversible doors for left or right opening,

concealed hinges, and rear mounting holes for a more attractive installation. Optional

mounting feet are available for conventional wall mounting. Wiegmann's 412 enclosures are

available in wall mount models up to 60" x 36".

NEMA 13

NEMA 13 enclosures are intended for indoor use primarily to provide a degree of protection

against dust, spraying of water, oil, and non-corrosive coolant.

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#7
In reply to #5

Re: Control Panel Specification

09/23/2014 8:13 AM

I am seeing "400 volts" and thinking - this is in IP rating territory. NEMA is not relevant there. Try IP 55, IP 65, whatever.

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#8
In reply to #7

Re: Control Panel Specification

09/23/2014 8:57 AM

I think NEMA rating is used to signify a fixed enclosure ability to withstand a certain environmental conditions.

NEMA type designations:

1

Indoor use primarily to provide a degree of protection against limited amounts of falling dirt.

2

Indoor use primarily to provide a degree of protection against limited amounts of falling water and dirt.

3

Outdoor use primarily to provide a degree of protection against rain, sleet, wind blown dust and damage from external ice formation.

3R

Outdoor use primarily to provide a degree of protection against rain, sleet, and damage from external ice formation.

3S

Outdoor use primarily to provide a degree of protection against rain, sleet, windblown dust and to provide for operation of external mechanisms when ice laden.

Indoor or outdoor use primarily to provide a degree of protection against windblown dust and rain, splashing water, hose-directed water and damage from external ice formation.

4X

Indoor or outdoor use primarily to provide a degree of protection against corrosion, windblown dust and rain, splashing water, hose-directed water, and damage from external ice formation.

5

Indoor use primarily to provide a degree of protection against settling airborne dust, falling dirt, and dripping non-corrosive liquids.

6

Indoor or outdoor use primarily to provide a degree of protection again hose-directed water, and the entry of water during occasional temporary submersion at a limited depth and damage from external ice formation.

6P

Indoor or outdoor use primarily to provide a degree of protection against hose-directed water, the entry of water during prolonged submersion at a limited depth and damage from external ice formation.

7

Indoor use in locations classified as Class I, Division 1, Groups A, B, C or D hazardous locations as defined in the National Electric Code (NFPA 70) (Commonly referred to as explosion-proof).

8

Indoor or outdoor use in locations classified as Class I, Division 2, Groups A, B, C or D hazardous locations as defined in the National Electric Code (NFPA 70) (commonly referred to as oil immersed).

9

Indoor use in locations classified as Class II, Division 1, Groups E, F and G hazardous locations as defined in the National Electric Code (NFPA 70) (commonly referred to as dust-ignition proof).

10

Intended to meet the applicable requirements of the Mine Safety and Health Administration (MSHA).

12/K

Indoor use primarily to provide a degree of protection against circulating dust, falling dirt, and dripping non-corrosive liquids.

13

Indoor use primarily to provide a degree of protection against dust, spraying of water, oil, and non-corrosive coolant.

Regs,

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#9
In reply to #8

Re: Control Panel Specification

09/23/2014 9:02 AM

there is a correlation between NEMA ratings and IP ratings. However, this correlation is limited to dust and water. Please note that while it is possible to compare NEMA ratings and IP ratings, any such comparison is only related to the protection provided against dust and moisture.

NEMA type

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#11
In reply to #9

Re: Control Panel Specification

09/23/2014 9:11 AM

Don't know how the inspection process goes where the IEC rules are involved, but do know that even an IP 67 rating is considered NEMA 1 in the USA in an inspection. I've disappointed many well meaning European companies that forced me to use a device that penetrates the type 4 panel wall but was only rated with an IP system rating, not a NEMA rating. This immediately makes the panel a type 1 in the USA under UL 508A standards.

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Anonymous Poster #1
#10
In reply to #2

Re: Control Panel Specification

09/23/2014 9:06 AM

Please forward me with UL508 standard. I am not able to find.

Regs,

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#12
In reply to #10

Re: Control Panel Specification

09/23/2014 9:21 AM

Buy it.

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#14
In reply to #10

Re: Control Panel Specification

09/23/2014 10:16 AM

Welcome to the capitalist world. UL claims to be a non-profit organization, but EVERYTHING they do costs you money. The 508A standards, as ALL of their standards, are never free.

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#15
In reply to #14

Re: Control Panel Specification

09/23/2014 10:51 AM

Yes, I've had products tested and registered by them. They are not cheap.

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#16
In reply to #15

Re: Control Panel Specification

09/23/2014 10:59 AM

We tried to get a heating unit, that they considered as Medical/Dental device (don't ask -it is very complicated) that we produce about 20 of a year labeled - we were looking at 7 years to break even. The real issue is we do custom work, so about half of the 20 would have been considered a different design by UL and also would need the inspection process. We realized quickly, we would never break even unless we sell hundreds per year. Actually makes the cost of a 508A inspection seem very cheap.

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Anonymous Poster #1
#13
In reply to #2

Re: Control Panel Specification

09/23/2014 10:00 AM

looks like NEMA, ANSI all deals with 60 Hz and only IEC and IS deals with 50 Hz. Is it like that?

Regs

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