Philippines 220V-60hz vs Europe 230V-50hz

Most AC electric motors today are synchronous motors of one configuration or another. As such the rotor spins at a speed related to the frequency of the AC voltage applied. If the main motor is powered by direct connection to the 60 HZ power it will try to spin 1.2 times faster. Depending on the mechanical load it sees it may not be able to spin synchronously. A synchronous motor not spinning synchronously will overheat if it cannot get up to speed. There maybe other complications with the motor turning faster that may include as simple a fix as changing a pulley diameter to replacing the transmission assembly.

Good Luck

I thought these front load machines all used a custom VFD's to drive a 3 phase motor. I can't imagine that the electronics would care about the Hz of the power source, as everything is converted to DC.

I'm guessing it's more a problem of the voltage input of 240VAC@50Hz vs 120VAC@60Hz.

If the OP would look at the nameplate on the rear, and state the power input that would be a clue as to the real issue. Even thought the title indicates 220V-60Hz, I'm guessing the machine wants the power at EU voltage levels, and the electrician replaced the power plug with a 120V 60Hz version.

You can still get top load machines with a mechanical drum switch that uses a synchronous timer motor to control operation, but I'm not aware of a front load that does this. It was the use of VFDs that enabled affordable home front load machines, and for them to be sold as power and water saving devices.

Waiting for OP to state nameplate data....

Yes, if this model uses a VFD to drive a three phase motor then the frequency of the power line will not effect the motor. The internal power supply to run the control circuitry will likely also not care about the power line frequency. Thus only the line cord plug needs to match the outlets found in the Philippines. However, the OP stated that the manufacturer claims that machine will not work there. She may not have contacted the correct person at the manufacturer but I will not assume they were given inaccurate information.

please check the original post.

The idea is to use it with 220 V, 60 Hz. Nothing to do with 120 V.

Then it's either

- a newer machine with a VFD, then it will work at 60 Hz;

- an older machine will probably have a belt drive; then the motor pulley can be reduced in diameter (lathe work, look for a mechanical shop - maybe you will have to replace the belt).

But OP says "it's not working". Have you tried to test it without water? Can't you hear anything, like valves buzzing or motor turning? What type of a control panel, the one resembling an old clock with a round button, or pushbutton? Can you post a photo?

brgds

Snel

We triedtested it with water not working, no sounds nor valves buzzing. But the triangle and equals button has light urning into green and red. How can i attach a photo in here?

Hi Chic,

recomemended download:

http://www.electrolux.no/Support/Manuals/

it's in Danish, use Google translator (see problems & correction on p.62):

Blinking start/pause button: door is not closed correctly .

Turn child safety device with a coin or a screwdriver so the slot will be upright. Make sure no child or pet is inside.

Please tell me what you get.

brgds

Snel

hi it is closed correctly and the safety device is turned into "unblocked". Still the same.

Hi Chic,

OK, we have last hope now but please perform two more tests. Trying to get more information about problem origin (hardware or firmware).

Take note on what happens during each test. Does blinking start immediately? Or green is initially on (how long?) and then red starts blinking? When red is blinking, green is continuously on or alternating with red?

Test 1: Disconect plug from socket.

Leave door open on purpose.

Connect plug. Does blinking start?

Press start/pause. Any change?

Test 2: Close door. Disconnect plug from socket.

Leave it disconnected for at least one hour.

Connect plug. Check as in test 1.

Brgds

Snel

Sorry Chic,

what was meant is "we have less hope", not the last chance! Hope is the last to die.

What about your water supply? Comparing with manuals for other Electrolux models, it seems that a failure signal will be issued if pressure is too low. Do you have a water tank 5 meters high or more? Or do you know the pressure to be equivalent to this? Are other washing machines operating on the same line?

Best regards

Snel

Hello Chic ! here's one for you in english, make sure you ground the chassis of your washer, either from an expossed metal part of the sheetmetal, or from the unused contact (the 3rd one, recessed) of the machine's plug, to a known good ground of your installation or to a bare water pipe, provided it is a metal pipe.

Just to check compatibility, send a picture of your washing machine, with you standing besides it, looking into the camera.

See post #19.

Thank you for coming back with further, very clear information. Far too often people show up with a technical problem but never answer any requests for added information.

I tried to locate any engineering documentation with a few Google searches on this model number but could only find a complete Danish user manual and a brief but useless for this problem user manual in English. I cannot tell then if your machine has a Variable Frequency Drive (VFD) or not. I therefore cannot confirm or refute if you cannot use this machine without significant internal reworks.

There are devices that can change frequency and voltage from 220V-60HZ to 230V-50HZ. One form of these devices is called a VFD. Unfortunately for you, properly installing one of these devices between this machine and your local power grid might be more expensive than buying a new machine locally.

Me too I tried to google it and all I can see is in different language.

My mom sent it from Sweden. She spent 500$ just to send it, that's why im finding a way. Well then, thank you so much for the comments and suggestions.

Sorry for the dampener, but I have to wonder firstly why your mother spent $500 sending this machine to you without first checking its compatibility, and secondly if you could not have purchased at least as good a machine locally for the same $500 or even less.

It would surely have cost her a lot less to just wire you the cash.

She sent not only a washing machine but a lot of stuff, my mother is not an electrical savvy as well and has no knowledge about it.

It's CE marked, making it suitable for use in Europe, Mildred. How it got to the Philippines in preference to a locally-supplied one would be a real curiosity.

Could you post a photo of the cord your using for power to this machine?

That plug adapter is a 120V configuration.

A 240Volt socket for a 60Hz system will look like:

The mating plug will have both or one 'pin' rotated 90 degrees to mate with this socket.

I'm guessing your trying to plug into a 120VAC system with the looks of your adapter.

Hi Ignator,

Chic is in the Phillipines, not in the USA.

Many countries use the NEMA 120 V configuration (or similar) for 220 V.

Hope we haven't chased Chic away by now

brgds

Snel

In the USA this is true. In the Philippines it looks like a US 120V connector and must be rated to handle the higher voltage. NEMA is a national code standard for the USA. Outside of the USA it does not apply unless one exports to the USA for use there.

The U.S. 120V socket is routinely used in the Philippines for 220V (actually nominally 240V and 230V where I live). Also the practice of using an adaptor to 2-pins is common as most outlets here have no ground connections.

Everything here is dangerous and generally installed by incompetent fitters and 'inspected' via a P500 note.

To the OP: I have a 220V/60Hz front-loading Electrolux similar to yours and it worked when bought. The life was only about 1000 wash cycles then it needed new carbon brushes which were bodged by the so-called distributor. All manner of problems since so I scrapped it. At some point in its life my washing machine ran off my wonky generator whose revs are not quite constant and it probably did get 50 Hz without obvious problem.

Best of luck!

What to do? Mine is 230V-50hertz..

It should work once you have the correct plug.

You may need to make a mechanical adjustment on the door switch, if I believe another poster here mentioned that, he could be right...not a big deal.

There is the possibility that the machine has been damaged in transit as well......but probably easy to get fixed.....Pay for a return air ticket and I will come and fix it all for you!! I'll even bring my own tools and test equipment....

Haha. Thats cool and you can get a nice vacation here, but I have no money for it, if ill do that ill go to my mom and visit her instead, she's in Sweden.

I'm sorry but I really dont understand this. Some of our plugs has adapter if the end of the plug is circle.

For the Phillipines you need, for safety reasons, a "B", not an "A" plug as you have shown us.

A "B" Plug has 3 pins. You can only use it in a 3 pin socket, whereby the "A" plug you have will go into3 or 2 pin sockets.

Simply cut the Schuko plug off and buy a "B" plug and get it properly fitted to the cable. Do not attempt to do it yourself, you can make some really dangerous errors.....

The "A" & "B" plugs are shown on that Wiki link I posted, but its easy really (assuming the Wiki link is accurate), you need the 3 pin plug that I am sure can be found overall where you live! I don't believe that thee are others with 3 pins in general usage, but I don't live there either!!

Try replacing the plug with a 3 pin plug. I once used a machine imported from the USA on our power supply of 240V, 60Hz and it worked.

This is awful, i the picture, you can see the Europlug earth contact is not used on the "A" plug/socket for the Phillipines.....

Thats how people die!!!

if your washing machine is 230v 50hz it will work in our country.. But the motor will run faster because the frequency in our country is 60hz.. And the motor will be hot faster than usual.. The plug adapter you are using is correct since the type of power socket we are usually using in the phils. Is two pin (ungrounded). So your unit might not work without proper earthing. (There are some electonic device or even machine wont work without earthing or grounding, it's for the protection/safety of the unit and for the people to avoid electrocution.) It is also possible that your unit has been damage upon shipping. (They were all right) your machine wont work if its not properly close.. If its close, then maybe the protection switch/limit switch/interlocking switch whatever they call it Might be damage. This type of switch is controlling the machine if the door/cover of the machine is closed it touches the switch so the machine will run/work. If its defective then ur machine will not work... Kng okay na ang unit mo sa ngayon then congrats... Pero kng kailangan mo pa din ng advice just hitme up.. Mjdarkvalentine@gmail.com

When I was still in the Philippines, the regular available power source is 220 Volts using either 2 pronged or 3-pronged connectors, the 3rd prong being the ground! The female end or outlet is colored Black that either 2 or 3 pronged (U-gnd type)!

The 110 volts power are available by request and at that time comes supplied through outlets that are colored White, but configured pretty much the same except for the color change. If 3-pronged they use the regular standard U-gnd outlets, Unless intended for dedicated applications with rating of 20 Amperes or more!

That was 50 years ago!

And an extension. i directly put it in the socket

Here's a low cost long shot from the other side of the world. Your European plug has a ground pin connection that the control circuitry is looking for a chassis ground connection or it won't run. Connecting a ground wire to the chassis may solve this. You may be able to get a ground connection from your drain or water supply pipe. Make this ground connection first before plugging this in.

Again, Good Luck

Chic,

Please forgive me if I repeat some of the other questions but I was wondering if the outlet you have the washer plugged into is the correct voltage, can you please post a picture of the outlet or outlets (all of the ones you have tried) you have the washer plugged into. I want to see the pin configuration.

the outlet is 220 V.

Chic says the start/pause button is blinking, this a failure indication.

Please read my last post, I have read the manual for her.

brgds

Snel

Has the outlet been tested or verified that there is 220 VAC?

If one side of the 220 is tripped then you may get a few flashing lights but not full operation.

Try resetting the circuit breaker for that particular outlet. I would be testing the simple stuff rather than suggesting an expensive frequency converter like some other posts.

So, my question is...... Has the outlet been tested and verified to have 220 VAC?

And by whom was it tested?

Just trying to help

Hi Macq,

you're right, a VFD would be too expensive.

Chic can check the outlet by herself by plugging most anything into it (e. g. a table lamp) and checking the brightness.

Remember, they do not have 2 x 120 V, it's a 220 V system. Ckt breaker is one wire ("hot") only, no one side tripping. You will measure 380 V between 2 phases, but it's not the usual thing to have 380 V outlets in homes there.

brgds

Snel

Most of the modern washing machines have a VFD.....its the best way to control speeds and allows for variable speed spin cycles with little mechanical overhead......

Hi Andy,

yes, and Chic's machine looks quite new.

It seems that the model No. beginning with "EWF" stands for "electric- wash - frequency [converter]".

brgds

Snel

Thanks Snel,

I have encountered EU plugs on some import machinery but have yet to experience EU wiring and sockets first hand. I appreciate the info.

You're right. Our default is 220V no one has tried but all our sockets is the same.

I'm sure it is 220V, because if not our local appliances would not work if not.

Dangerous!!

See my previous post.

In some cases the machine utilizes half of the available 220/230 volts for powering the control circuits.

It may well be that this is true in your case.

A close examination of the wiring diagram or a call to the manufacturer service department should provide the needed information and answers

How did you gleam 3 phase motor out of the OP? If this was a commercial washer machine it might be wired 3 phase, but chick.inside stated her mother bought this washing machine for her. The tile of the post is 220v-60hz vs Europe 230v-50hz, and nothing about 120v- 60hz. It's replies like this that twists things out of context to the point that other's vector off in the wrong direction with their thoughts and replies.

chick.inside, if you need a washing machine and don't care if its used and keep things simple you might check Philippines Craigslist. Choose the cities closest to you. If your close to Clark Air Force Base, you might find someone there that might trade you straight across for their's if they're being transferred to Europe

Many a VFD will generate three phase power from a single or split phase source.

This is true, but until she can give us data plate info. we should not speculate anything about this machine. Chances are she probably has no idea about phasing, VFDs or where the data plate is located on her machine

And keeping with the KISS concept, it would be cheaper for her to sell this machine to someone moving to Europe and buying one that is intended for use in the Philippines.

Why should we not speculate on any thread when we get no more information. Besides, all speculation has been stated.

That was part of the point of my post. I do not know anything about the Philippines power system. But if it is 60Hz, I'm guessing it's a 120-240 Volt system (residential) as here in the USA. And if so, I'm guessing someone removed the 240VAC 50Hz power plug and installed a 120 volt plug, and the unit does not work, as it's not powered with 240VAC. Yes I'm guessing. OP has not replied as of yet. If she does, hopefully she has someone to use a volt meter, and verify what the power source is, and the nameplate required input.

My comment to dj95401: I know that front load machines have been delivered with VFDs for many years and these convert single phase to 3 phase. Makes the motor broad band speed controllable, so wash cycle is slow, and spin very fast, all without a transmission. It makes it super easy to add delicate wash at a slower speed then normal wash. And there is no centrifugal switch issue of a typical single phase motor to deal with, as well the multipole motor wiring and switching relays (including reverse).

I realize the newer equipment come with VFD's and 3Φ motors that are built into the washing machines, that uses 1Φ mains input. The OP already stated,"I am not a electrical savvy and to be honest I have no knowledge when it comes to electric." She can't get past the input voltage and frequency. Residential voltage in the Philippines is 240v 60Hz 1Φ, regardless if the tub drive motor is 1Φ or 3Φ.

So why muddy the water talking about a 3Φ sub-system when she has no concept of what your talking about?

Because admitting ignorance is a sign of intelligence. Intelligent people asking for help deserve accurate answers. I prefer to let an intelligent person decide what information actually clarifies and what obfuscates.

The Philippines system WAS based on the U.S. system and the current Electrical Code here is a copy of an ancient U.S. one - right down to snow-clearing equipment for airports!

Nowadays the CHEAPEST is the rule. U.S.-style 120V sockets ungrounded (even when 3-pole) are usual for 220/240V. Imported equipment may have U.S., Schuko, Australian or UK style plugs and crappy adaptors enable any of them to be plugged into 2-pole U.S. sockets. The adaptors simply discard the ground pin and can only handle 5 Amps or so without overheating. Also, fuses/breakers tend to be of ratings that would be suitable on 120V so you get a 30A breaker on a regular 240V outlet in a bedroom. I've even seen 30A on lighting circuits here.

Fires and death by electrocution are very common but statistics are not kept, post mortems not often done and since the govt does not pay for medical treatment they don't care. 90% of households have no insurance so losses are generally total.

When my mains voltage recently went up to 270 and things were popping, I called the supply company. The guy who came had to borrow my DVM, as his Fluke was 'lost', when he climbed the ladder to the smoking transformer in the street (shorted primary turns?)!

That's my beef! OP watch out. See if you can find a local electrician who has been trained in the navy. They're the only ones who know anything.

Yes and I'm afraid to do such electrical wiring or whatsoever. But I don't know where to find a legit electrician. :(

Clark base airforce is too far from me, and it weighs too much as well and i have no car. I just want to use this.. But having so much trouble. :(

It also may be an older machine that has a standard AC motor, no VFD. They only started doing that in the last 10 years at best, and only for the high efficiency machines. It could be that her mother bought a new HE machine and gave the older one to her daughter in the Philipines. It likely was not worth the shipping cost...

Or the chic will have to invest an Automatic Voltage Regulator (Input & Output @220Vac, 50/60Hz) easy and assured trouble free operation.

You may try to look for a frequency converter(50hz to 60Hz) at Raon. You should find KW rating on the name plate(let us know) of the washing machine multiply it by 1.25 the find the closest available rating.

Say, no. of pole = 120(frequency)/RPM, or RPM@_60Hz=(60Hz*RPM_@50Hz/50Hz) this means that your RPM will be 1 & 1/5 more than original speed.

And power is directly proportional to Torque and RPM (from HP=Torque X RPM/5252)

You can still use it, but from above you have to minimize kg load by say 20% since Torque will less than original, probably some fuse is busted on your unit.

Find a second opinion from other electrical service provider. There are a lot of motors from a scrap store.

raon-online.com, you think it's there? it's their online site. are you from here?

;) Try to search also at RS components Makati, you may speak with their technical sales representative, I believe you will be able to find an AVR input 220V, 60z output 220V, 50hz about 2.5KW Estimated cost less 10K Php.

Noted that. Thanks!

Finally, someone from Phillippines. Im from Cavite, can I have your number? Or can you pls txt me, my number is 09173040819. Hope to hear from you soon.

to CHIC -

Since the new machine was transported /shipped from another country, make sure to have all shipping bolts remove!

Those bolts were put in place to prevent or minimize any movable components, i.e., drum, motor mounts, from being damage or from being misaligned! If those shipping bolts were not removed, they will also prevent the machine from working /running! The bolts can usually be found inside, under the chassis or cabinet enclosure!

Great. She could use a helping hand.

Turns out we're 30 km apart. Wheels in motion. Will advise if any useful tech info emerges.

Most excellent!

Awesome! What are the odds that your that close to each other? I'm interested to hear what you found out.

No need for the OP to buy AC voltage regulators....if it needs one, simply buy the correct washing machine locally, it will save money....scrap the problem one...

But I believe it should work fine with no problems, after the correct plug is on and maybe the door switch is adjusted....

There's no easy way that a novice could convert this....You might look for someone moving to Europe and trade them....but that's a long shot

What is the model # of your machine?

Model of the washing machine is Electrolux EWF 14079 W

Firstly, converting as you did with an adapter plug with no earth connection is highly dangerous.

Touching anything earthed and the machine could give a dangerous shock. Washing machines are not double insulated and MUST be properly grounded. Yours is not!!

At best, you would have a qualified electrician come and cut the Euro plug off (which is 3 contacts by the way) and fit a plug for 220VAC with earth, a "B" plug, also 3 contacts. Then see if it works when water is connected.

The connector you have appears to be one for 2 pin 120VAC 60Hz, but I don't live in the Phillipines.....

I checked here, and you have an "A" plug, which is wrong and dangerous, when you need a "B" plug rated for 250 VAC.. It appears that the Phillipines do not have 120VAC.

See here for Phillipines:-

Mains_electricity_by_country

You need water connected for many machines to run, no water, no running......

Is the machine new or second hand? Was it tested before sending?

It could even be defective after its long journey.

If the machine is correctly connected, I believe it should run.

Probably the Elektrolux people are simply out to make money, or the machine is already damaged....and they know which part is broken....

As someone said, a waste of money to send such a machine so far.....I could buy a new machine local to me for less than the transport costs you paid.....new with a full guarantee.....

My mom has 2 washing machine, this one is almost new, she used it once or twice.

It's all working she said.

"...I asked the Electrolux Company to have it checked. And they found out it is 50 hertz, he said we're using 60hertz and I can't use it here anymore unless they'll change the inside machine (motor) and it will cost me more...."

Was this a technician who looked at it? If so, he probably knows more about it than anyone on this forum. Some motors designed to run off 50 Hz will burn up if you try to run them off 60 Hz. (If you have the owner's manual, it might tell you.)

Maybe you can trade it in on another machine.

I agree. The door latch issue identified by the translation from from the Danish manual seems like a prime candidate. Regardless of there being a ground integrity monitor circuit, a ground connection should still be made to the chassis. Once these two concerns are mitigated I also expect this transplanted washer to work.

I would suggest you get someone to check the voltage at the 2 prong socket you're plugging into, to make sure the voltage required is being supplied. The pictures you sent of the plug and plug adapter looks ok. You may have an error light due to that condition, see what the manual says about the what the red/green alternate blink means, that was a decision the person who designed the logic made and it should be stated somewhere.

People normally know what the voltage at their sockets is.

what the manual says about blinking is told in post #32.

brgds

Snel

After looking again at the plug and adapter, it looks like the plug has had a pin removed so it will fit the adapter...back to getting someone qualified to check it for proper grounding....

If you mean the Europlug, that is an earth "socket" for French wall sockets that have a pin in that is in a socket to pass earth onto the plug.

In most other European countries, but NOT the UK, which has its own (best in the world) system, there are sliding earth contacts on each side of the plug and socket.

The first three photos on this website show the important points. Note that the German plug shown cannot be used in the French socket shown!! Due to the earth pin....

Fun stuff.....

I don't know what reference you are using. That is a normal F plug or Schuko connector. This is the standard connector used in Sweden. The plug has a receptacle for the ground connection.

Possibly something happened during shipping. Go online and search for troubleshooting info for your model. Some machines have literature for this behind the front bottom kickpanel.

"The result was a lot of good answers from our members."

And I'll wager, total confusion on the part of the hapless OP.

We waste spend far more time arguing among ourselves who's right and who's wrong (or more nearly, technically correct) than we ever do actually helping a novice solve her problem.

Typical of this site, as I've fruitlessly pointed out before:

"AVR input 220V, 60z output 220V, 50hz about 2.5KW"

"cut the Euro plug off (which is 3 contacts by the way) and fit a plug for 220VAC with earth, a "B" plug, also 3 contacts"

"Remember, they do not have 2 x 120 V, it's a 220 V system."

None of these quoted passages were directed at the OP and there are others, as well.

One final quotes sums up my feelings, "There have been many inane posts about this problem"

gringogreg is right. The OP gave great information to begin with with and has participated during the entire thread.

I'm sorry if I ruined your weekend.

I wonder how the OP is coping with all the (to her) gibberish spoken here by the "experts".

My comment was not really directed at the quality of responses to this post, but rather to the quality of the original question and the poster's involvement in the discussion. I am just reacting to some of the typical questions we receive "My machine won't work. Please help" and the like.

Well, you certainly cannot deny that the members responded.

Hi Chic,

i have same problem with yours.

did you find any solution with your problem?

I think what you need is Frequency Converter did you find it there?

because im also palnning to buy it there but im not sure if its available there like someone says it available there in Raon did you find it?

Hope you already find solution with your problem.

Thanks

Hi Chic

I know that this case is old but thought that it may be worth responding. I am the technical manager of a German company with an office based in Manila.

We get regularly get cases like this where Europeans, Australians and Indians bring their 50Hz domestic appliances to the Philippines only to find that they do not work correctly.

I have done extensive reading up on the subject because I would like to help but there seems to be two factors that are still a little grey to me. Some 50Hz machines seem to work without a problem where as others won't.

I believe the reason for this is because of the quality of the power supply. I have measured supply voltages from 190v to 235v.

The number one part that gives problems on washing machines and dishwashers is the small 20 - 50 watt synchronous drain pump. It will often vibrate but fails to turn. I suspect that it would work if the supply voltage was greater than say 220v and that is why we do not see 100% failure of this part.

In some cases we can match the original pump with it's 60Hz Korean version's pump but as there is no like for like 50 to 60Hz listing we can only do this in some cases.

That would be my no1 fault and the error code would indicate drain problem. Sometimes the local guys can source a suitable 60Hz equivalent. I am impressed with the improvisational skills here but less so with their workmanship.

Some more advice.

Circuit boards seem pretty tolerant of the frequency but often get fried here because of the common brown outs, power surges and spikes so an AVR is recommended. Remember to over spec this by at least 30% because the Chinese ratings are ridiculously ambitious EG a 2kw AVR will struggle to cope with 1.5kw.

Plugs. There is NO standard for appliance plugs here so many are supplied with the two prong recessed ground type shown. This is a terrible plug and does not give a ground connection in 99% of cases as all of the extension leads and adaptors are designed to accept a protruding ground pin. In these cases cut the plug off and fit the local three pin design shown.

I hope that this info helps.

.

It's really time that the Philippines 'regularized' its mains connectors to some recognizable standard and then published proper regulations.

We have almost all types of connectors on appliances in the shops: US (120V style even if for use on 240V), UK, Australian, European. A cheap adaptor is usually supplied to enable the appliance to plug into a 2-pole (no ground) US socket which is the most common outlet. Grounding of metal appliances is not regarded as necessary, but then, there are no statistics available for electrocutions.

Actually, the supply is generally 120-0-120 at the breaker panel but is invariably only used for 240V. Waste of breakers! Commonly the neutral leg is not connected between the local supply transformer and the consumer which means that if you want 120V you have to buy a transformer or rely on a ground circuit for supply. Crazy?

I could go on.

Just hope that Chic managed to get some sense out of the appliance repair shop that I referred her to near where she lives. No feedback received.