Alternative to GI Pipe

I have cancelled the GA vote you were awarded with an OT vote because the mis-information in your answer is not only not good but it could be dangerous.

Metal Fume Fever and Effects of Welding Fumes

Welding fumes can cause harmful conditions such as:

• welding tract irritation
• metal fume fever
• Siderosis: chronic inflammation of the lungs
  
• Increased risk of lung cancer

That's your prerogative Lyn, but perhaps you need to do a bit more research.

First point is that site you list is referring to Metal fume fever which can occur during welding or smelting any of a number of metals, it is not specific to Zinc.

The OP indicated that he couldn't weld GI due to extra precautions, and I simply stated that there are no extra precautions required over those needed for welding uncoated steel, and I stand by that statement.

Perhaps if you read some of the links that I provided to Tornado you will see that my information is correct in that Zinc Oxide fumes are indeed not Toxic.

Those sites specifically mention Zinc Oxide fumes form welding as different to the ointment that Tornado mentions.

There are numerous other well respected websites that concur with those I listed, and none that I can find that claim any proven toxicity for Zinc Oxide fumes.

Those sites are respected entities, so if you choose to disbelieve their information, then so be it.

Fume fever is considered to be a temporary debilitation that clears up rapidly and no long term side effects appear to remain.

To suggest that there is no problem breathing welding fumes is irresponsible.

Period.

Thank you for your support, good to see that one member has the ability to read and understand what I really said, and who also has the intestinal fortitude to denounce the tactics being employed here.

My answer to the question was totally correct and in accordance with industry standards in every sense as is attested by the links that I subsequently provided.

The syndrome you mention is seen on many forums where one "bully boy" as you call him launches an attack and then the followers taste blood and join in (perhaps due to some ill conceived desire to curry favour) with totally erroneous statements that indicate no knowledge of the subject and a lack of ability to read and comprehend what has been stated, and/or in the case of this forum, ego boosting GAs.

The other common syndrome is called "head in the sand" where all of the relevant facts are placed in full view but they still refuse to accept them.

Seems the same group is suffering both maladies in this case.

"I personally believe anything that can make you puke meets the definition of toxic. Zinc included".

People "puke" for many reasons that have nothing to do with toxins.

Sea, air and car travel often induce vomiting in people but they can hardly be termed toxins.

A severe Migraine can cause vomiting, again not a toxin.

Pregnancy often causes vomiting. Not toxic - although, as has been witnessed on this thread, the results can be.

Excessive imbibing of alcohol often causes vomiting, but alcohol per se is not considered a toxin.

Concussion, dizziness, the list goes on and on.

Cigarette smoke is considered to be toxic but rarely causes vomiting.

I wonder how many of the nay sayers on this thread were happily typing away while enjoying a smoke, or work on their car with the engine running, or walk around a city breathing in its wonderfully clean air, or practice any of the other multitude ways of inhaling far more toxic fumes in one day than could be gained from one weld on GI pipe, even if no precautions were taken, and please don't again misconstrue that as a suggestion to not use protection.

I really do not want to argue, but alcohol most definitely is a toxin, and is lethal in the range of 0.31% in blood (and higher depending on the individual).

http://www.niaaa.nih.gov/

Even though zinc is an essential requirement for a healthy body, excess zinc can be harmful, and cause zinc toxicity. Such toxicity levels have been seen to occur at ingestion of greater than 225 mg of Zinc.^[1] Excessive absorption of zinc can suppress copper and iron absorption. The free zinc ion in solution is highly toxic to bacteria, plants, invertebrates, and even vertebrate fish.-source: wikipedia article.

The article also mentions that zinc toxicity (shown by changes in blood chemistry, copper deficiency, and changes in blood lipoproteins and LDL/HDL ratio (affected in a bad way)), takes a considerable amount of time to resolve.

At the same time, I am not meaning to imply that one could get that large a dose of zinc into his/her system by welding one weld on GI pipe, especially if general ventilation precautions are taken, the welding is outdoors, and normal welding half-mask is used that employs a minimum of a P100 cartridge.

As usual, you add nothing relevant to the discussion.

I've had metal fume fever, 6 straight hours of vomiting and dry heaving with intermittent bile before a trip to the ER for an antiemetic injection. That said, grinding the area to be welded for a half inch back from the weld until bright sparks fly from the whole area near the weld gets enough off that usual precautions (stand upwind and hold your breath while actually burning a rod) suffice. Zinc based paint on the area after cleaning makes it corrosion resistant to boot. Nickle and Cadmium are worse.

I repeat that I did not suggest the OP should not use proper ventilation or a mask, in fact I suggested it in the post.

My point was that he did not require any special protection further than he would use for normal welding of uncoated steel

With regard to the toxicity, I suggest you contact just about all health authorities and tell them they are wrong on this.

I would be interested to see just one authoritative link that conclusively states that Zinc Oxide fumes are toxic - not just that it can cause discomfort or other illnesses, as all welding fumes can do that - a statement that it is actually toxic.

When you go looking, take note of all the ones that state it is NOT toxic and come back with the stats.

Never mind. You have shown your true colors.

Try the James F Lincoln site for starters, then TWI (UK) and AWS (US). I don't believe you have had much instruction regarding welding and safety.

Minmi:- I have just checked a number of websites with those names and none of them appear to have any information on the subject. Perhaps you could provide links that don't require either membership or the purchase of their books to access the information.

FYI I taught welding (OA, MMA, MIG and TIG) for a number of years. I have posted on a number of welding subjects on this forum. Nothing that I have said is incorrect, you and others just choose to misinterpret it and see only the parts that you wish to see. Go back and have a closer look at what I really said.

Lyn:- That was really clever...Do you use that form of argument often?

Zinc fumes might not be teratogenic, mutagenic, or carcinogenic. If your (and your sources') definition of "toxic" is limited to such permanent effects, then maybe zinc fumes can be considered nontoxic. However, even temporary nausea, tremors, etc., are bad enough to count as toxic in most reasonable opinion. I already said how to mitigate those effects, but that doesn't mean they should be considered lightly.

It has been shown in general that zinc is a toxin in high enough levels (as are many things) when ingested. It has also been shown that strong effects on cells within alveolar sacs are known. If high levels of zinc are absorbed into the bloodsteam, then the classically observed symptoms of zinc toxicity are noted within the blood chemistry, including copper deficiency, lipoprotein imbalance, effects to the HDL/LDL cholesterol ratio being the most likely tested.

The OSHA PEL for zinc oxide fume is time-weighed 5 mg/m³ in one eight hour period, which is not all that much different from the PEL for common dust.

The OP just wanted to know what other pipe to weld. I will suggest no other pipe is suitable since he does not seem willing to take minimal health precautions.

I don't know where you were taught. But any of the Tech. Colleges in the Hunter area since the 1960's has maintained that "galvo" fumes can kill you. I commenced in 1964 and still operate as a consultant / inspector to BV, BHP billiton etc. I am qualified to A.S. 1796, am a member of The Welding Institute (UK) and The American Welding Society (US).

Interesting.

Here is a link to the Galvanisers Association of Australia web site.

And below is an excerpt from that site; note the bit that I have underlined, especially the non toxic bit.

In the arc welding or oxyacetylene welding of galvanized steel, provision must be made for control of welding fumes when planning procedures. Due to the relatively low melting point of zinc a proportion of the coating is volatilised and given off as a white zinc oxide fume. The presence of any fume evolved is obvious and this permits simple observation of the efficiency of the ventilation or extraction system. When welding is carried out in accordance with normal industrial practice with provision for adequate ventilation and air circulation, the non-toxic zinc fumes will cause no inconvenience.

Here is another Australian site Unionsafe

Below is an excerpt from that site, note again the bits that I have underlined, again the non toxic bit rears its ugly head

Zinc oxide is non-toxic and non carcinogenic. Extensive research into the effects of zinc oxide fumes has been done, and although breathing those fumes will cause welders to think that they have the flu in a bad way, there are no long-term health effects. Zinc oxide that is inhaled is simply absorbed and eliminated by the body without complications or chronic effects. Current research on zinc oxide fumes is concentrated in establishing the mechanism by which zinc oxide causes "metal fume fever," how its effects are self-limiting and why zinc oxide fume effects ameliorate after the first day of exposure even though the welder may continue to be exposed to zinc during subsequent days. Typical "metal fume fever" begins about 4 hours after exposure, and full recovery occurs within 48 hours.

Either these experts don't know what they are talking about and are taking one hell of a public liability risk by putting that lack of knowledge into the public arena - or your teachers didn't have a clue. I think I know where my bet would be placed.

On what grounds would you fancy that those guys would be unbiased? Are you by chance a member?

The first site (Galvanisers' Association) is an industry body, so you may be happy to consider them biased, but they would be damned stupid to put up safety information which, in the opinion of many on this thread, is blatantly wrong and could easily be proven to be so if that were the case.

A simple search would have revealed that the Unionsafe site is an official website of the Australian labour council and funded by Workcover Australia which is the Australian government's workplace safety overseer.

It is fully affiliated with the Australian trade union movement and, I would expect, many international trade union bodies.

Do you think for one moment that they would be officially condoning unsafe work practices?

I'm not affiliated with either of them and your implication is offensive.

What do the actual laborers think and say about a day of the heaves? Or do they just lick their milk mustaches and smile complacently?

There is certainly further information out there that says, "yes" zinc is a toxin. I will also add that iron is also a toxin in the same sense of the word - a sufficient dose may produce lethality in 50% of the cases. Granted one might take more of these than the sugar LD50 and survive, why chance it, and the PEL limit is certainly low enough to tell anyone that 5 mg/m³ is not visible. 5 mg is pretty near the limits of a single dust speck. (At least in the windstorms where I live)

HOW IN THE SAM DAMN HELL CAN THIS BE OT?

I don't see any OT vote there - perhaps it was and is now gone - but it was probably voted OT because someone who actually read and understood my first answer (the one that started all of this crap) could see that YOU had either not read it, or not understood that I did inform the OP of the common (and industry accepted) ways to avoid the fumes.

Perhaps it's time for you to go back to the start of this thread and read what I actually said rather than just what you're being told I said.

My response was voted OT. Then changed. I can realize how some in this forum decide that enough is enough. I am here because i may have something to contribute. If i save one mistake (having made many in my life) then i believe i have added something to society.

LOL, in fact ROFLMFAO!!!! I know how I would go about pushing your buttons now, that I ever intend to!

One method is to grind off the zinc in the area to be welded, weld normally, and then coat the area with cold galvanizing compound. Fancier is to spray-galvanize the area where the zinc was removed.

Zinc fumes are toxic, but can to some degree be countered by drinking milk before welding. In some jurisdictions, this "old" method may not be permitted.

"Zinc fumes are toxic,"

It may cause discomfort but it's not toxic according to any information that I have ever seen.

National poisons information service UK

Zinc Oxide MSDS

Union Safe

Princeton Education page 78

Zinc oxide is a white ointment. Not the same as galvanized steel.

Zinc oxide no longer used in denture adhesives, it has proved to be toxic in this long term use.

"Zinc oxide no longer used in denture adhesives, it has proved to be toxic in this long term use."

This statement interested me as I had never even heard of Zinc Oxide being used in Dentistry.

So I did some research and found that Zinc Oxide is alive and thriving in the dental industry.

It is combined at a strength of from 50% to 65% with a chemical called Eugenol to form the most common of dental cements in use today and also as an impression putty for the production of dentures.

This US company's MSDS provides the information shown below.

See below for what this supplier Zinc Oxide Eugenol in dentistry says

PROPERTIES

• Non toxic
• Adherence to tissues
• Mucostatic or mucocodisplacive (depending on brand used)
• Good surface detail in thin section
• Good dimensional stability (little or no dimensional change on setting, 0.1% dimensional change during setting)
• Can be added to with fresh zinc oxide eugenol
• Stable on storage and good shelf life

And this German Government site would appear to absolutely refute your claim.

Zinc oxide-eugenol as dental material.

Zinc oxide-eugenol cements are considerably better tolerated by tissue than other dental materials. As they alleviate pain and are bacteriostatic and antiseptic, they are well tolerated by patients. The cements are good insulators and possess better sealing properties than zinc phosphate cements. Because of their poor mechanic properties, the conventional zinc oxide-eugenol cements are mainly used as temporary fixing contents and filling materials, for gingival dressings and together with filling materials as impression materials. Recently, reinforced zinc oxide-eugenol cements and cements containing ethoxy benzoic acid (EBA) have been developed. These new cements have considerably better mechanic properties and are therefore used for cement bases, indirect capping, long-term temporary fillings and in selected cases as definite fixing cements.

Need more proof? Google it yourself and you will get a plethora of info.

Zinc Oxide Eugenol is apparently not all that the manufacturer's MSDS claims it to be.

From the British Dental Journal: http://www.nature.com/bdj/journal/v193/n5/full/4801539a.html

Adverse reactions associated with the use of eugenol in dentistry

• Eugenol has a long history of successful therapeutic use in dentistry, but has the capacity to cause adverse effects
• Eugenol is cytotoxic at high concentrations and can cause allergic reactions in sensitised patients
• This paper illustrates cases of such reactions occurring in general dental practice

Abstract

Eugenol is a material commonly used in dentistry with few reported side effects. It is not however, a bio-friendly material when in contact with oral soft tissues. It can produce both local irritative and cytotoxic effects, as well as hypersensitivity reactions. Here we report on two cases of adverse local reaction to eugenol, contained within a temporary restorative material and a temporary cementation material respectively, which illustrate these problems.

This is a picture of one of them:

http://www.nature.com/bdj/journal/v193/n5/fig_tab/4801539a_F1.html

Erythema and ulceration in left buccal mucosa, adjacent to UL7 (27) on closure of the mouth

These are only two examples. There are actually numerous cases of this problem.

As a side note, having been involved with MSDS's since the early 80's when they were required by 29CFR1910.1200, I do not take them as being completely valid nor accurate. Many times personnel not qualified to author them do so. For example one large lab chemical supply company says that if distilled water gets on your skin or in your eyes you should rinse the affected area with tap water for 15 minutes.

Good Luck, Old Salt

If you read the full reports you will see that the discussed allergies were related to the Eugenol in the compound, not the Zinc Oxide, and Zinc Oxide is the crux of this discussion, not Eugenol.

There are side effects varying in intensity from most treatments just as there are possible dangers in almost every procedure that we undertake. Some people exhibit allergies to products that have no effect on the general population.

My point was that contrary to the erroneous claim that it had been withdrawn from use in dentistry, it is still extensively used, and that is despite the side effects you mention. In fact, the only side effects from the Zinc Oxide part of the compound are reported to be beneficial ones.

One could then reasonably deduce that the benefits of using Zinc Oxide - even when allied with Eugenol - far outweigh the side effects, otherwise it would have been withdrawn from use.

MSDS's are generally regulated and enforced by health authorities so, whilst they may not convey all information regarding their use, what they do state must be accurate. It is after all a worker safety rather than a consumer document, it comes back to the fact that all of them state that it is non toxic, and those reports do nothing to indicate otherwise.

I really wonder how many of the gooey posters on this thread follow every single recommended or suggested safety precaution when doing things.

If they don't - and we know they really don't - then they are highly hypocritical in their vilification of something that they only imagine I said or even intended.

Yes, I did read the full reports prior to posting. Some of the other sources were the US National Institute of Health. They were all in agreement. You were the poster who introduced the subject of dental use of Zinc Oxide - Eugenol. Based on my knowledge of Eugenol learned many many years ago I posted the article. I did not deviate from the subject, simply provided clarification concerning the content of another post, the eugenol of the Zinc Oxide - Eugenol mix.

Many people and many posters, surmised from previous postings, would not want to subject themselves to any compound of Zinc Oxide and anything else should it create the adverse effects mentioned by many here and in literature. There are other materials which can be used.

MSDS's are not regulated as to their accuracy or range of accuracy of things listed in them unless there are blatant inaccuracies in them that have caused adverse incidents. They are not enforced by any health authority nor any other government agency except for the order of which the information is to be listed and the information listed in them. As stated before, only a gross error contained within one and reported to a government agency such as OSHA would create any monitoring or corrective action by a government agency.

MSDS's are created by the manufacturer/supplier directly or indirectly. There are also many generic ones available for larger volume materials such as sand, commercial solvents and other frequently used materials.

It has been the experience of many in the chemical industries that there seldom is complete agreement for the identical materials among manufacture's/supplier's in the information included in a MSDS. During my career four MSDS's for 2,4 Toluene Di-isocyantate, (TDI), were maintained in our files. Of them none were in agreement and two of the four were not similar to either of the other three. Two were almost identical. Also, many MSDS's contain gross errors about the material they describe or silly and irrelevant information. Essentially they are "self policed" by the creators of them.

Despite all the claims of non-toxicity, many people find no enjoyment or necessity to knowingly become ill from anything. Most people, including myself, do not enjoy barfing their guts up, that's why they don't get involved with zinc oxide vapors, especially from welding. There are many other ways to eliminate the need to weld galvanized. The simplest is to hot dip the items after welding instead of before welding.

Good Luck, Old Salt

Just to correct your mistake, if you refer to answer number 13, you will see that I was not the one to introduce the subject of dental use of Zinc Oxide, I simply corrected his statement, and I again make the point that it is not the Zinc Oxide in dental use that is in question in those links, it is the Eugenol...Very different to this discussion which was originally about inhaling the fumes but got sidetracked by the fan club.

I refer you again to my first post in which I advised the OP of the precautions needed to weld GI. The fact that Lyn can't understand what he has read and refuses to admit his mistake is what started this BS, and then his fan club joined in.

My statement that Zinc Oxide is non toxic got them riled. I have since provided ample evidence of the non toxicity of Zinc Oxide.

No matter what problems you believe it will cause, the fact is that it is considered by scientists, doctors, and others who really know, to be indeed non toxic. Sure, breathing the fumes can cause discomfort and (short term) ill effects but it is still non toxic in the scientifically accepted sense, and that is all that I claimed.

Those precautions that I originally suggested carry the approval of, and are recommended by, health authorities just about everywhere, including in the US...None of you has yet produced any evidence to refute that with any authority. Plenty of emotion and theorising, but nothing of any substance.

It is not always possible to avoid welding post galvanising, and I have provided sufficient evidence of the relative safety of doing so if those precautions that I mentioned are followed.

To add a little sanity to the stupid crap being bandied about on this thread, the OP was talking about one weld on one pipe. Just how much "barfing" do you expect he would do from that - even if he used no protection at all?

This is an Engineering forum.... Engineers deal in facts, and I have presented the facts all of the way. For whatever reason, some simply refuse to accept those facts.

spades-

You are entitled to your viewpoints or support of your or other's determinations and deductions and especially to state them. So am I. Some people are in support of allowing the welding of galvanized and others, such as myself are not without the use of the proper equipment to protect the person doing the welding. I have stated this and why. I have not changed my viewpoint since there is equipment on the market that can be used to reduce the possibly of illness from zinc oxide vapor exposures. As stated before, no task is important enough to do it without the proper PPE.

The first goal of an engineer is to eliminate the need for the offending component. If this and several subsequent steps are unsuccessful then PPE is used to eliminate the exposure to the employee. There are many procedural changes, use of PPE and the use of vapor elimination/transfer equipment to eliminate the exposure causing problems.

Engineers do not always work with facts. Many work with concepts and make these more attainable. The imagination of an engineer is a very important source of development and engineering processes. They are also not always right: the Tacoma Bridge; Kansas City Hyatt Regency; straight runways on aircraft carriers; Cocoanut Grove Nightclub door hinges; the Titanic and numerous other. They all were engineering projects that were designed by/with "facts" but were gross failures.

Good Luck, Old Salt

So...Tell me what you believe is the basic protective equipment that you would recommend for welding GI, bearing in mind that this task is often carried out in the field, and I do mean field, so fume cupboards and the like are a doubtful possibility.

Very interesting point that you raise. Idealistically when there is a potential problem with a task a solution to it should be developed prior to starting the task. Process Safety Management 29CFR1910.119 is based on this. There are several protective equipment intended for almost continuous welding that can be used for relatively permanent locations. Included among them are vacuum dust/vapor collection systems, correctly placed fans (vacuum systems are better), positive pressure atmospheres, etc.

Since they are not all suitable for portable or remote welding of GI there are numerous PPE and devices to eliminate the dust/vapor hazard. Included, but not limited to, are portable electric negative or positive fans similar to those used in manhole compartment work:

Similar devices are available with the same function, to collect or exhaust fumes/particles.

For personal PPE there are:

HALF-FACED RESPIRATORS, no power required

FULL FACED RESPIRATORS, no power required

PAPR, PRESSURIZED AIR PURIFYING RESPIRATOR, rechargeable batteries required

Best inexpensive unit. These have been used by pipeline welders and others for a long time.

Other equipment includes air supplied respirators, pressurized supplied air with escape cylinders and other systems. These are more expensive and seldom necessary.

http://us.msasafety.com/applications/Welding/a/4294967214%2010065/10003;jsessionid=5E6A08337AFAABC94C7DBDF45DA2387B.worker1?N=4294967214+10065&Ne=10003&Nu=Product.Endeca_Rollup_Key&pageSize=40&view=grid&show=All

All of these PPE can be worn under a shield, especially one with the larger view glass.

Since NIOSH had lowered the limits to 10mg/m3 TWA (total particulate) and 5mg/m3 TWA (respirable particulate) for zinc oxide, the use of appropriate PPE to meet these documented standards is even more important. These limits are based on factual data.

http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/npg/npgd0675.html

This document includes:

http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/pel88/1314-13D.html

Again, the risks involved do not warrant welding GI without PPE or dust/vapor extraction equipment.

Good Luck, Old Salt

Thank you for your reply. You're the first respondent who appears to have actually done any research.

If you refer back to my first answer #1 - the one that started all of this BS - you will see that I recommended the use of both the fan ventilation that is your option number 1, and also the half mask that is your option number 2.

Apart from your preference for vacuum type ventilation, which I address below, it would appear that your preferred options for protection against the inhalation of the fumes are identical to mine, so beware the imminent attack from the vultures.

While negative pressure ventilation in the form of fume cupboards, vacuum tubes, etc. do work well in some instances, I have found from being involved in many field welded pipe joints et al, both GI and plain steel, that positive pressure fans work far better in the field than do negative pressure ones.

The reason is that the vacuum tube needs to be placed too close to the weld in order to be effective and therefore upsets the arc and precludes the use of gas shielding, it does work for MMA or gasless MIG, but it has to be moved far too frequently to be practical, and we mainly used MIG and TIG processes for which it was useless.

A positive pressure fan can be placed farther away and directed at the welder rather than at the weld, wind guards can then be placed close enough to the work to allow gas shielding to be employed during naturally windy conditions.

We also employed full faced respirator welding masks where practical, but as much of this work was performed in central Australian heat, the welders preferred not to use them and opted for the fans for obvious reasons.

Through the use of these simple measures, none of our welders ever complained of any of the symptoms that have been claimed on this thread to be a certain fate from welding GI.

Black iron pipe (often used for gas piping) or mechanical steel tubing.

Use threaded pipe fittings bolted to the plate and pipe. No welding required.

If you read the data sheet in virtually any container of coated rod you open, it states the fume hazard related to the rod. Breathing zinc fumes can cause 'edema', that is a fluid build up in the lungs and around the heart, which can be fatal. This can also result from breathing the zinc dust while grinding it off. People who take this caution lightly often wind up in a hospital.

Enough about defining "Toxic".

Does anyone have an answer for the OP's question??

I don't, partly because I don't know what he wants to use it for.

Threaded pipe/fittings, or 5

Plastic pipes weld well. As you haven't given the fluid and its basic properties nor the line size, Mildred, I'm getting off this bus at this stop. Cheerio!

Hey, wait for me!

-A- has taken over the thread and is "defining the terms" from here on.

It is beyond me why anyone would take the risks involved and also the extreme discomforts associated with this! As you said "welding GI pipe is not suitable as I don't have the necessary precautions" is the right thing to do. I can't think of one reason why someone welding would want to take the risk of edema, puking their guts out for hours on end, a 102^o or more fever, chronic inflammation of the lungs, risk long term damage, increased potential of lung cancer, dry heaves, potential damage to developing fetus, and other nasty things. Use different materials is no PPE is available. Galvanized is easier to weld than steel but much more expensive in the long run!

There are numerous ways to avoid these risks. Some include: fume collectors; supplied air respirators; galvanizing after fabrication instead of galvanized parts; fans; and other easy ways. Yes, I have welded a few short times without these protections but I stopped when I saw the dust collecting on my shield. Also I stopped others from doing it unprotected when I got fed up with having them puking on my pants and shoes as I and others were trying to administer 1^st aid. No boss needs something such as galvanized items welded together unless he is willing to pay the price for PPE. I wouldn't do it even if the wife told me too!

Good Luck, Old Salt

It's your weld, your job and your life, do as you see fit. It may not kill you, but .....

I don't want to jump in the middle of an argument but I can line up about 100 or more Welders / Ironworkers to back up the statement that welding on galvanized pipe is dangerous and about half of them "including me" have experienced at one time or another the toxic effects of zinc vapors from welding. Just look at the thick yellow smoke coming of the welding zone and tell me that it's safe. NO WAY! Zinc poisoning is no joke and is the cause of many lung and brain injuries in welders. If you want to weld on zinc coated pipe with the "protection" you stated. Be my guest! I will alert the EMT's so they can pick up your convulsing body!

The "protection I stated is exactly the same as is recommended by health and welding authorities world wide. If you have a problem with that then address your concerns to them.

This is Zinc Oxide

This is Zinc Galvanizing (HOT DIP)!

Any more questions?

We need to keep this in perspective, zinc like sodium, water, sun or other trace elements is a double edge sword. The human body can not live without them, too little or too much will kill you, either way.

Live long and Healthy!

I'm not sure how this thread got so FAR off the subject of welding on Galvanized steel.

If you are going to weld on galvanized steel then weld in an open area and wear a cartridge respirator. They are available at any welding supply and hardware store!

If you don't want to do it yourself, then hire a welder that has the equipment!

Geez you're game.

That's the same advice that I gave in #1 that caused Lyn to get so all self righteous and ...well you know the rest.

Be prepared for a tirade from the brigade.

Well at least we did get a rise from you two verbally squaring off toe-to-toe. Thanks for the afternoon entertainment!

I suggest that there are always more than one way to look at a situation, and recognize the problems and to also see the opportunities.