Are You Getting Enough Iron? (Part 2)

Men need to be very careful about taking iron supplements as there can be some significant health problems as a result. Check with your doctor before proceeding.

Hi,

in most parts of the world people are iron deficient.

This results from low iron in drinking water, either naturally or artificially to improve the taste.

Red meat and blood-derived products are very efficient, but these are opposed as promoting inflammation. So really recommended only once a week and if your fatty-acid-profile is ok.

Enough iron drastically improves strength and endurance - you will feel like new-born if your blood is ok.!

The cheapest possibility to get enough iron is (according to an official WHO recommendation) to take the iron as iron(II)-sulphate that is freshly diluted in water.

In contact with the air this will quickly react to iron(III) that is nearly insoluble and will be absorbed only in traces. Beware your shirts from drops, these will turn into black-brown stains that can be removed with difficulty only by oxalic acid or powdered vitamin C. (Bad own experience).

But iron is only the beginning and most important. All the heavy metals are needed that take place in enzymatic chemical reactions inside us. Using ocean-water in replacement of table-salt would be a good start.

RHABE

RHABE,

Some reference and specific figures would be appreciated. Some of the things you have written could be seen as encouragement to take iron supplements without first verifying you are iron deficient. This is not a good idea. While iron deficiency is problematic, an excess of iron can have severe negative side effects including death. The daily tollerable upper intake level for healthy adults is 45 mg, this can easily be reached taking a single dose of an iron supplement and a diet with foods high iron availability.

Other things you say are also troubling.....

>>>'....All the heavy metals are needed that take place in enzymatic chemical reactions inside us. Using ocean-water in replacement of table-salt would be a good start....'<<<

To what 'heavy metals' and 'enzymatic chemical reactions' do you refer? Are you certain that ocean water is supplying what you are suggesting is missing? How certain can you be that the sea water you are using is not contaminated with industrial waste?

How are you planing to replace the iodine typically supplied in table salt...or do you find the aesthetic value of goiters to outweigh the obious dowsides of a bowling-ball-sized growth from your neck?

Here are the recommended daily allowance and tollerable upper intake levels of iron for healthy individuals from the Institute of Medicine Food and Nurition Board.

Recommended Dietary Allowances for Iron for Infants (7 to 12 months), Children, and Adults [1]

Tolerable Upper Intake Levels for Iron for Infants 7 to 12 months, Children, and Adults [1]

Some interesting things.... Vitamin C can be beneficial in uptake of Iron. Calcium and Iron are thought to compete for absorption. Iron may inhibit zinc uptake. Iron from animal sources is more readily available than in vegitarian sources. Coffee and Tea may inhibit iron uptake.

Hope these facts are useful.

Benbenben...

Hi,

what do you need to know specifically?. The iron-II to iron-III redox reactions are in any chemistry textbook,

the recommendation of WHO you should find there. I did read this years ago and it stayed in my memory. Get also a textbook on human physiology.

The daily tolerable upper intake level for healthy adults is 45 mg, this can easily be reached taking a single dose of an iron supplement and a diet with foods high iron availability.

"The daily tolerable upper intake level for healthy adults is 45 mg, this can easily be reached taking a single dose of an iron supplement and a diet with foods high iron availability."

This is definitely wrong. Healthy humans have a limit switch for oral iron-intake. Only the very rare people with a nonfunctional iron-limiter have to be careful.

If oral iron intake will do any harm - how did survive our early ancestors in natural environment? There is iron usually available in considerable amounts in the water.

Non-oral iron may be really harmful pretty soon. Grinding rusty or bare iron and inhaling the dust may pretty soon poison you.

"To what 'heavy metals' do you refer?" Zn, Cu, Cr, Mn, Mo, Se, Co, maybe more.

'enzymatic chemical reactions': there are likely many million different reactions needed in protein chemistry in our body. Read about enzymes and human physiology!

"How are you planing to replace the iodine typically supplied in table salt...or do you find the aesthetic value of goiters to outweigh the obvious downsides of a bowling-ball-sized growth from your neck?"

If you eat a diet as many people that live near a seashore you will not need additional iodine (Okinawa people for instance). But any land-rats are highly recommended to get enough iodine, and, often neglected: related Selenium!!! The hormones of the thyroid gland that have iodine in the molecule need Selenium to synthesize the precursors.

"Vitamin C can be beneficial in uptake of Iron" This is quite clear as ascorbic acid is a strong reducing agent, and it is able to reconvert iron-III to iron-II. So enabling resorption.

Have success!

RHABE

RHABE,

If oral iron intake will do any harm - how did survive our early ancestors in natural environment?

Pre-modern civilizations essentially all had parasites in their bodies which would use the iron thus keeping our ancestors from accumulating too much. Absent parasites, bacteria, etc. the only way we really have to rid ourselves of excess iron is to bleed.

The type of dietary iron is significant too. Heme iron is efficiently absorbed by the body whereas non-heme iron is not. While you may consume a great deal of iron in your diet, if your diet is primarily non-meat (including fish), you are getting virtually all non-heme iron which means your body may not be getting enough.

There is also a danger in getting too much iron. Bacteria, viruses, cancer and parasites all require iron to grow. Our bodies (essentially all creatures) have the ability to sequester iron. Scientist have observed that healthy subjects have a blood iron level 3 times that of subjects with active infections. It's also interesting to note that human breast milk contains 10 times the amount of an iron-binding protein called lactoferrin and about half as much iron when compared to cow's milk. The lactoferrin and low iron content of breast milk help to prevent infections by denying bacteria of a supply of iron.

It's important to note it's important not to get too much or too little iron. And where you live can play a huge role. Those in lesser developed environments where they are more likely to have higher bacteria internally or parasites living symbiotically within them would be less likely to have excessive iron, especially if their primary diet is non-meat as they would be getting very little heme iron and mostly the less efficiently absorbed heme iron. Those living in more developed environments are more likely to have an excess of iron, especially if their diet was higher in red meats and fish. Keep in mind what I have just written is quite generalized.

Iron is a pro-oxidant (it stimulates formation of free radicals), so the body keeps iron wrapped in a molecule called integrin to protect the body from harm that the iron can do. When a person gets an infection the body hides it's iron in an effort to starve the infection and limit it's growth. Individuals can be mis-diagnosed if a doctor only measures hemoglobin and red blood cell size or serum iron levels as a way of determining if a person is deficient in iron. The only true way to test for anemia is to test the blood for levels of ferritin (the molecule used to store iron).

My source for the above is from Dr. Michael Eades in his book "Protein Power Life Plan". He has an excellent chapter on iron.

Hi JB,

everything ok., except the limit switch in the absorbtion is not mentioned in your concept.

Parasites have been a major aspect os our ancestors life but this would be a much too coarse and weakening iron level regulation. The situation is still the same in some parts of the world.

I assume - but I have no information if true - that this limit switch was established early in evolution at the transition from marine to land-life.

So there is no situation: too much iron!

Iron is not only pro-oxidant -(this is iron III, if it is reduced to iron II it is oxidising the reaction partner very strongly), but also anti-oxidant if existing as iron II, readily oxidised, so reducing the reaction partner.

RHABE

Hi Rhabe,

I am not aware of a switch to turn off absorbtion...I think you may be referring to the role of enterocytes in the small intestines. One role of enterocytes is to absorb the iron as it passes by. They hold onto the iron and will pass it onto the body depending on need or if the body has plenty of iron will hold onto most of it for a few days then send it back to the intestines. While it's true that your body will reduce iron absorption when it has sufficient amount, the absorption doesn't go to zero. According to Dr. Eades, "Components of the foods we eat can override the control exerted by the intestinal lining".

Parasites have been a major aspect os our ancestors life but this would be a much too coarse and weakening iron level regulation. The situation is still the same in some parts of the world.

Anthropologists studying the remains of ancient populations have found that prehistoric hunters had almost no evidence of iron deficiency, but found such evidence widespread in ancient agricultural societies. Iron deficiency anemia produces changes in the bones. Hunters lived in small groups on the move following the food. Their primary diet was meat (generally red meat), so they had a good source of easily absorb-able iron (heme iron) and by moving around more likely to have fewer parasites. Agricultural societies were stationary (tied to the land) and sanitation was not what it is today thus more prone to heavy infestation by parasites and other microorganisms. And to compound the problem ate grain based diets loaded with phytates and oxalates (both inhibit iron absorption).

You are correct the same conditions exist in many parts of the world today...and it's likely that if in those places the diet is low in meat (probably a reasonable assumption) and low in sanitation, then maybe it's more likely the general population is suffering from iron deficiency. There have been cases where in third world countries, children have been mis-diagnosed with iron-deficient anemia because the doctors only looked at serum iron levels in the blood, not levels of ferritin. They were given iron injections and subsequently developed overwhelming infections and in some cased died. The children have low serum iron levels because the body has hidden away the iron to keep it away from parasites and bacteria. On top of that, their protein deficient diets makes it difficult for them to transport the iron safely in their blood because the body must have sufficient protein to make the molecule called transferrin that keeps the iron in the bloodstream hidden from microbes. With the injected iron circulating freely in their blood stream bacteria and parasites could multiply quickly feeding off the newly available iron.

I do not see how iron can also be an anti-oxidant. If you are suggesting by being oxidized it makes the likelihood of oxidation of some other oxidant less likely, I think that's faulty logic. If the iron oxidizes, then it produces free radicals, thus it is a pro-oxidant.

I will post on the dangers of too much iron soon. I think I did in the thread on donating blood, but I don't recall how much I said there. I'll read it over and either link to that or give a more thorough explanation. I'm not suggesting that too much iron is necessarily a problem in most parts of the world....but certainly may be in the developed world where diets may be rich in heme iron and parasites/bacteria are lower due to improved sanitation.

Watch it with iron supplements... Several forms of cancer are activated and helped by too much iron.

On the other hand, if you come from England, you will not be allowed to give blood in the US, because of the danger of contaminating the blood supply with BSE -- Mad Cow disease. No bull s#%t.

"Several forms of cancer are activated and helped by too much iron."

Hi Vermin,

this statement is ok but if the iron is deficient then the body -immune system- can't fight against the cancer. Same with oxygen. So let the iron in, it will help.

Also any infectious agent that may circulate in the blood - mostly very bad bacteria - the origins of blood-poisoning are thriving only if they have access to a source of iron.

But in a healthy metabolism the iron is immediately swept to the transferrin molecule that is available for further use only in the intended way. Except some very nasty beasts have invented a way to interact here and get some of the iron for growth and disturbing us.

This is also the pathway how Gallium is thought to interact with iron and thus allow control of most critical bacterial infections and some cancers.

Search for Eby and for Bernstein, they are working on Gallium - amazing.

RHABE

OK, but unless you're currently giving blood, it's hard to get a deficiency. Even iron cookware gives you sufficient iron. I had to give three units for an operation, and they insisted I'd needed iron supplements between blood-draws. I didn't take them and still had sufficient iron... Iron is fairly ubiquitous, and I think even vegans might have a hard time getting a deficiency. I kinda think you'd have to be literally starving to death to lose sufficient iron. What do you think?

Hi Vermin,

I don't know the reasons for iron deficiency but I assume that food habits and metabolic peculiarities have the biggest influence.

WHO had stated (approx 1990) that nearly 80% of the world population has iron deficiency (me included).

Iron is really ubiquitous but this is threevalent iron that is nearly insoluble and thus only absorbed in traces - still enough if taken regularly. Once a week red meat is much better.

We store a massive amount of iron that may last for more than a year if there is a total block in iron input (it is so important that the luxury of a big storage pays).

RHABE

give blood in the US.
You mean they give it away?
I though you tightwads guys charged for anything to do with health care?
Del

Yup, donating blood is a voluntary freebie!

GETTING blood at the hospital probably costs a pretty penny.

And if you're giving blood for your own operation, it'll cost you about $300.00 per unit... And the insurance companies will fight you for it.

The simplest way to check for anaemia or iron deficiency is to gently pull down your bottom eye lids before a mirror. If reddish tone of good intensity is seen ,the iron content is said to be positive. If the inner lid is found of pale rose or towards white tone - it is a clear indication of iron deficiency. Take one or two date fruits per day every night, the simplest iron remedy in a most natural way.It really works.

s.udhayamarthandan: you wrote...>>>'....Take one or two date fruits per day every night, the simplest iron remedy in a most natural way.It really works....'<<<

One CUP of chopped (as in no seed) date fruit has a little over 5 mg of iron which is slighly under 30% of the recommended daily allowance of iron for women. A whole cup of date fruit would be a meal for some people. I imagine you would have to de-seed at least 25 dates to get a whole cup, maybe more. If some one is iron deficient adding ~ 0.2 mg / day from a non-heme source may not be effective, even if it is the 'simplest...most natural way'.

Benbenben

Dates can not be consumed as a main diet. I happened to consume a handful of dates and ended up with non stop diarrhoea. Limited intake is safer.

As an "O-neg" universal donor, I tried for years to donate blood, but my iron was always too low. They gave me a long list of suggested foods, which I dutifully followed - no change. I started taking iron supplements - no change. Then I started dating an earnest carnivore, and my diet began to include rare beef at least twice a week. Bingo! Plentiful iron levels. I have since married the carnivore (best move I ever made) and I donate blood regularly.