The Engineer's Notebook Blog

The Engineer's Notebook

The Engineer's Notebook is a shared blog for entries that don't fit into a specific CR4 blog. Topics may range from grammar to physics and could be research or or an individual's thoughts - like you'd jot down in a well-used notebook.

Previous in Blog: An Engineer Remembers September 11th – Part 2 (Final)   Next in Blog: E-Memories: Changing What it Means to be Human?
Close
Close
Close
71 comments

Dungeons & Dragons: Geeky Fun or Gateway to Hell? (Part 1)

Posted September 30, 2009 12:01 AM by Vi Pham

Greetings.

They call me Zurk. And I am a half-orc.

Soon after birth I was abandoned by my human mother and sold into slavery. As a young half-orc, I was used as cheap labor - but with age I grew restless, angry, and much stronger. At age 11, I was sold to the village watch-captain. He gave me a greataxe. Told me that if I obey him and patrol the village perimeter, I could attack anything that threatened the village. Fantastic.

I was soon sold to another master, an adventurer, as a bodyguard. For several years we traveled around the continent. I've battled all sorts of dangers. Hordes of goblins, human raiders, spell-casters, and foul beasts of all kinds.

This was until a few weeks ago. While travelling through a deep forest I was separated from my master. I still do not know where he is, or if he's even still alive. But I have found three other travelers. Until I find my master, I will go with them.

One is a human paladin. He always speaks of vanquishing evil. He wears a lot of noisy metal armor. And he isn't as handy with a sword as you would think a paladin should be. Another is an aasimar sorcerer. I dislike him. He is rude. Talks down to everyone. Almost useless in battle. But he has magic and can detect dangers I cannot.

The third is a human bard. He is a fancy talker. He tries to tell me how wonderful freedom is. But I don't see anything wonderful yet. So far, I've found myself in a strange dungeon behind a bookcase, struck unconscious by some strange enchantment, imprisoned, and jumping through magical portals. This is not wonderful. It is confusing!

My new comrades are strange, but they are adventurers and they need my help and protection. I will continue with them. And maybe one day I will learn to enjoy this "freedom".

Fantasy and Reality

In reality, I'm Vi Pham, a human, whom you might recognize from CR4's Animal Science Blog. And the paladin, sorcerer, and bard mentioned above are the guys (also humans) whom I play Dungeons & Dragons with.

For those of you who are unfamiliar with Dungeons & Dragons, it's a fantasy role-playing game (RPG) in which a group of people come together, create characters, and embark on adventures in environments and situations that are facilitated by the Dungeon Master (DM), who has the role of referee/storyteller.

D & D, as the game is commonly known, uses 4-, 6-, 8-, 10-, 12-, and 20-sided dice for determining damage dealt in an attack, how successful you are in trying to move silently from place to place, if you notice someone watching you from across the room, the likelihood that someone will believe your bluff, etc.

There are several versions of D&D. The most recent, Dungeons & Dragons 4th Edition, was released in June 2008.

What's the Engineering Angle?

Over the years, the various versions of D&D have gained quite a reputation. A common belief among many people is that D&D and its players are the epitome of "geekdom". In truth, engineering students may be some of the game's biggest fans.

But the D&D world has been labeled with terms a lot harsher than "geeky". There are accusations of moral disintegration, psychological instability, and connections with Satanism.

In the next few blog entries, I will discuss the various controversies that have surrounded D&D since the game's creation in 1974.

Click here to read Part 2!
Here for Part 3!
And here for Part 4!

Sources:

Wikipedia – Dungeons & Dragons

Reply

Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.

Comments rated to be Good Answers:

These comments received enough positive ratings to make them "good answers".

Comments rated to be "almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, rate them!
Guru
Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member United Kingdom - Member - New Member

Join Date: May 2007
Location: Harlow England
Posts: 16499
Good Answers: 662
#1

Re: Dungeons & Dragons: Geeky Fun or Gateway to Hell? (Part 1)

09/30/2009 5:34 AM

Outlets for our fantasies are vital to retain our sanity.
At one time of high personal stress, I wrote (and illustrated) a rather silly adventure story somewhere between an Enid Blyton famous 5 story, watership down and a bondage fantasy. The pictures were good.
It's far better to fantasize about shooting the boss with a chinese repeating crossbow and abducting his secretary rather than actually doing it.
The problems arise when you feel these worlds blurring... At that point you know it's time to change job.
Del
(It was ok...I released her almost immediately.No...actually I showed her the story and she thought it was fun and was amused by the illustrations....Mrs Cat wasn't tho....)

__________________
health warning: These posts may contain traces of nut.
Reply
Commentator

Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 68
#28
In reply to #1

Re: Dungeons & Dragons: Geeky Fun or Gateway to Hell? (Part 1)

10/06/2009 12:16 PM

Bondage and bunnies?

Del... you're a cat. That's just wrong.

Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru
United States - Member - USA! Hobbies - Musician - Sound Man Engineering Fields - Mechanical Engineering - More than a Hobby Technical Fields - Technical Writing - New Member

Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: City of Roses.
Posts: 2056
Good Answers: 99
#30
In reply to #28

Re: Dungeons & Dragons: Geeky Fun or Gateway to Hell? (Part 1)

10/06/2009 12:55 PM

Bondage and bunnies you say?

__________________
Don't believe everything you read on the Internet!
Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Commentator

Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 68
#34
In reply to #30

Re: Dungeons & Dragons: Geeky Fun or Gateway to Hell? (Part 1)

10/06/2009 1:36 PM

Well what else would it be?

You have read Watershipdown haven't you?

Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru
United States - Member - USA! Hobbies - Musician - Sound Man Engineering Fields - Mechanical Engineering - More than a Hobby Technical Fields - Technical Writing - New Member

Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: City of Roses.
Posts: 2056
Good Answers: 99
#38
In reply to #34

Re: Dungeons & Dragons: Geeky Fun or Gateway to Hell? (Part 1)

10/06/2009 2:04 PM

Sorry, I was on the Hue Hefner wavelength...

__________________
Don't believe everything you read on the Internet!
Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Tech Valley, NY
Posts: 4366
Good Answers: 15
#2

Re: Dungeons & Dragons: Geeky Fun or Gateway to Hell? (Part 1)

09/30/2009 7:43 AM

Very interesting! I've never played D&D, but I'm looking forward to reading about the controversies associated with it.

__________________
Sharkles
Reply
Guru
Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member United Kingdom - Member - New Member

Join Date: May 2007
Location: Harlow England
Posts: 16499
Good Answers: 662
#3
In reply to #2

Re: Dungeons & Dragons: Geeky Fun or Gateway to Hell? (Part 1)

09/30/2009 7:57 AM

Mmmm do you fantasize about big bad cats pouncing over that cubicle wall?
Del
<mroooooow, scampers off monitor left>

__________________
health warning: These posts may contain traces of nut.
Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru
Technical Fields - Technical Writing - New Member

Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Near Delaware Water Gap
Posts: 1326
Good Answers: 83
#4

Re: Dungeons & Dragons: Geeky Fun or Gateway to Hell?

09/30/2009 9:15 AM

I know D&D has been around for a long time, but is this in the same league as Warhammer, also called 40K? I know of many people, young and (excuse the expression) old who play this dice-based fantasy game, which relies on model armies and more rules than I'll ever understand. There's an entire history and mythology that has evolved for the different armies, and while I enjoy fantasy up to a point (stop right there, Del), I enjoy sci-fi more and would just as soon spend time with a crossword puzzle.

Thanks for the look into this form of geeky fun!

Reply
Guru
Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member United Kingdom - Member - New Member

Join Date: May 2007
Location: Harlow England
Posts: 16499
Good Answers: 662
#5
In reply to #4

Re: Dungeons & Dragons: Geeky Fun or Gateway to Hell?

09/30/2009 9:35 AM

Moi?

__________________
health warning: These posts may contain traces of nut.
Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru
Technical Fields - Technical Writing - New Member

Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Near Delaware Water Gap
Posts: 1326
Good Answers: 83
#6
In reply to #5

Re: Dungeons & Dragons: Geeky Fun or Gateway to Hell?

09/30/2009 9:37 AM

Vous (and where's that otter joke?!)

Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Commentator

Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 59
Good Answers: 2
#19
In reply to #4

Re: Dungeons & Dragons: Geeky Fun or Gateway to Hell?

10/01/2009 3:45 PM

Warhammer has been around since 1983.
D&D has been around since 1974.
And they are both pretty popular, so I suppose they would be considered to be in the same league.

The games are kind of similar. Both use dice and both fall into the fantasy genre. Both also have a lot of rules. I haven't played Warhammer, but one major difference is that instead of the entire armies of Warhammer, D&D players (with the exception of the Dungeon Master) develop one character and they play that character during the campaign.

A crossword puzzle from time to time is nice too!

Thanks for reading!

Reply
Member

Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 5
#7

Re: Dungeons & Dragons: Geeky Fun or Gateway to Hell?

09/30/2009 11:01 AM

I love DND!

It's a pity that it is always look down on as a "nerd game" (hence the popularity at schools like RPI). DND is so much fun you can immerse yourself in a fantasy world, and if the DM is good enough, you can literally do anything.

I always tell doubters that DND is the greatest video game ever. minus the flashy visuals.

Everyone should try to get a group together, learning is easy as long as one person know what they are doing and has a plot in mind. you might be surprised who you know that has a history with DND.

__________________
Gallar
Reply
Guru
Canada - Member - New Member

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Posts: 629
Good Answers: 39
#8

Re: Dungeons & Dragons: Geeky Fun or Gateway to Hell?

09/30/2009 11:13 AM

D&D? Played it for over 20 yrs with basically the same group of people. By the time we were done our world had evolved into a place almost as real to us as our own little planet. Marriages and relocations eventually broke up the gang but my wife and I have since discovered the on-line versions and enjoyed several years or Warcraft. Eventually the kiddies that play that game devolved it into something that was less than enjoyable and we moved over to Lord of the Rings Online. Populated by a more mature group, most of whom are true Tolkien afficianados, we have found our new home away from home. We now spend(waste) what free time we have exploring the rich world of Middle Earth as Hobbits, Elves and Dwarves. The devil worshiping is just for weekends.

I would love to hear about others experiences with what are called MMORPGs (Massive Multiplayer Online Role Playing Games). Or from people still playing the classic pencil and paper RPGs.

__________________
All that is required for evil to succeed is for good men to do nothing.
Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Guru

Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 519
Good Answers: 11
#15
In reply to #8

Re: Dungeons & Dragons: Geeky Fun or Gateway to Hell?

10/01/2009 8:05 AM

I never could find a group of people to play D&D with but I have always loved the D&D based video games (Baldur's Gate is still one of my all-time favorites).

I think the problem with MMORPGs though is time consumption. Just last night I wanted to play WoW for only 2 hours and got off after 4 hours.

Another problem is that many gamers don't know the difference between the game and real life. For instance, the currency in the game is gold and I get so frustrated when I hear someone say "I bought it for 20 dollars" meaning "I bought it for 20 gold." Heck, I know a guy that averages about 12 hours of gameplay every day.

Reply
Guru
United States - Member - USA! Hobbies - Musician - Sound Man Engineering Fields - Mechanical Engineering - More than a Hobby Technical Fields - Technical Writing - New Member

Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: City of Roses.
Posts: 2056
Good Answers: 99
#9

Re: Dungeons & Dragons: Geeky Fun or Gateway to Hell?

09/30/2009 12:04 PM

Ahhh.. D&D. Played it as a youngster, and had many enchanted evenings of adventure. I think I still have some old dusty dungeon master guide books around somewhere. When the internet started (much before WoW, or Ever-quest and the like) I used to play these completely text-based MUD's (Multi-User-Dungeon). It made my typing ability what it is today. The MUD's were the first online version of D&D, and were a load of addicting fun. I can't remember how many countless hours we would parade around the digital text-description based worlds, reading and typing our way around. (I'd probably still have an adventure or two to this day if I had time to kill(which just happens to be the exact opposite)). I knew some of my friends, who evolved to the visually stimulated worlds of Ever-quest, and WoW. I never took it on... If I'm not using my imagination to make the world however I wish to see it, it lost it's fun for me. It's all about using that noggin for what it was made, and flex those imagination muscles.

__________________
Don't believe everything you read on the Internet!
Reply
Guru
Hobbies - Fishing - Old Salt Hobbies - CNC - New Member United States - US - Statue of Liberty - New Member

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Rosedale, Maryland USA
Posts: 5198
Good Answers: 266
#10

Re: Dungeons & Dragons: Geeky Fun or Gateway to Hell?

09/30/2009 2:28 PM

Watch Drizzt don't get you.

__________________
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving in a pretty, pristine body but rather to come sliding in sideways, all used up and exclaiming, "Wow, what a ride!"
Reply
Guru
Canada - Member - New Member

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Posts: 629
Good Answers: 39
#12
In reply to #10

Re: Dungeons & Dragons: Geeky Fun or Gateway to Hell?

09/30/2009 5:38 PM

Now wasn't he in Baldur's Gate along with the guy who had the hamster in his pocket?

__________________
All that is required for evil to succeed is for good men to do nothing.
Reply
Guru

Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 519
Good Answers: 11
#14
In reply to #12

Re: Dungeons & Dragons: Geeky Fun or Gateway to Hell?

10/01/2009 7:55 AM

Yep. I don't know who the guy with the hamster is but the mage Elminster was also a recurring character in there. I believe both characters are in most of the Forgotten Realms story lines.

Reply
Guru
Hobbies - Fishing - Old Salt Hobbies - CNC - New Member United States - US - Statue of Liberty - New Member

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Rosedale, Maryland USA
Posts: 5198
Good Answers: 266
#17
In reply to #12

Re: Dungeons & Dragons: Geeky Fun or Gateway to Hell?

10/01/2009 10:16 AM

Never played the game I have read many of R. A. Salvatore works that were created just for some of the game's story line.

__________________
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving in a pretty, pristine body but rather to come sliding in sideways, all used up and exclaiming, "Wow, what a ride!"
Reply
Commentator

Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 59
Good Answers: 2
#20
In reply to #12

Re: Dungeons & Dragons: Geeky Fun or Gateway to Hell?

10/01/2009 3:58 PM

The guy with the hamster is Minsc, a human ranger. And Boo wasn't just any hamster...he was a miniature giant space hamster!

interestingly enough, Minsc originated during pencil and paper D&D sessions held by James Ohlen, the lead designer of Baldur's Gate

Reply
Guru

Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 519
Good Answers: 11
#21
In reply to #20

Re: Dungeons & Dragons: Geeky Fun or Gateway to Hell?

10/01/2009 4:03 PM

"a miniature giant space hamster" lol.

So does that make it a normal sized hamster?

Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Commentator

Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 59
Good Answers: 2
#22
In reply to #21

Re: Dungeons & Dragons: Geeky Fun or Gateway to Hell?

10/01/2009 4:07 PM

haha, I do believe it does!

Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru
Canada - Member - New Member

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Posts: 629
Good Answers: 39
#23
In reply to #20

Re: Dungeons & Dragons: Geeky Fun or Gateway to Hell?

10/01/2009 4:14 PM

Indeed it was Minsc, always loved him in my party even though Boo restricted the amount of gear he could carry and weild.

Believe it or not, when my wife and I got married funds were very tight. The Baldur's Gate expansion had just launched so we locked the doors, took the phone off the hook, and spent our Honeymoon in Baldur's.

__________________
All that is required for evil to succeed is for good men to do nothing.
Reply
Power-User
Engineering Fields - Mechanical Engineering - BSME Clarkson University 1992 Engineering Fields - Software Engineering - BSME Clarkson University 1992 Fans of Old Computers - TRS-80 - DataRock 1.0

Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Troy, NY
Posts: 401
Good Answers: 3
#11

Re: Dungeons & Dragons: Geeky Fun or Gateway to Hell?

09/30/2009 5:18 PM

Great topic Vi!

I had multiple friends in high school who loved D&D, and weren't the Spawn of Satan.

Tolkien was huge back in the early 80's at Guilderland Central, here in Upstate. My high school friends then went on to become various types of technology-loving engineers and lawyers - Optical, Computer, Military, etc. - and tax-paying assets to their communities.

I tried a variation on fantasy play myself - I think they called it "War Games" - involving the Enterprise from Star Trek - but then lost interest over time. There was also some overlap at my high school between members of the Computer Club, The Doctor Who Club, and those who enjoyed D&D.

I think the engineering angle is that a vivid imagination is a pre-requisite for innovation. Or at least this is what I'd like to think. Whether there's science to back this up in patent statistics, I'll scan through the responses here to find out, but my life's experiences tell me this is likely true.

- Larry

Reply
Guru
Hobbies - Fishing -

Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Burnt Ranch, State of Jefferson
Posts: 688
Good Answers: 20
#13

Re: Dungeons & Dragons: Geeky Fun or Gateway to Hell?

09/30/2009 11:11 PM

I first played D&D in 1985 and was hooked. I played avidly through HS and into college. Just recently I found someone who also played in his youth and we began campaigning anew. It was as fun as ever. Without the massive amount of time it takes to run a good campaign, I have used WoW as a cheap substitute. I have actually just began campaigning in that game with a friend I played D&D with in high school. Ah, the good ol' days of chugging pepsi and adventuring till 4 or 5 in the morning.... When my kids are a little older I wil introduce them to D&D (not chugging pepsi though)... I look forward to it.

BTW I play(ed) AD&D and the secondnd edition. I've looked at later editions and was not impressed.

Gary Gygax died just a year, or so, ago.

I didn't fit the geek/nerd stereotype (played football, ran track), and I don't know about devil association with D&D. There are demons and devils in D&D, of course, but they are usually enemies.

I introduced my wife to D&D and Drizzt (RA Salvatore) and she is still reading his novels.

__________________
“Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it.” -Mark Twain
Reply
Anonymous Poster
#16

Re: Dungeons & Dragons: Geeky Fun or Gateway to Hell?

10/01/2009 10:06 AM

I tired D+D a couple times in college, but could never really get into it. Shortly after college, however, I got immersed in World of Warcraft.

In many respects its alot like D+D. You create a character, level them up (unlocking more powerful attacks and "talents"), and fight things. However unlike D+D, its more goal oriented, fast paced and can be played solo or in groups. A number of "monsters" can only be defeated by large groups of 10, 25 or even 40 players working collectively. Theres still a great degree of "die rolling" - it is just takent care of by the software. Also, if you decide you dont feel like fighting monsters, you can partake in numerous forms of player versus player combat.

As for the "geek" sterotype, ALOT of famous people play these games that you wouldnt consider to be a "geek". Actor Vin Diesel is a known fan of both D+D and WoW. Actor/Commedian Robin Williams, baseball player Derek Jeter, UFC fighter Jens Pulvers, Actor Jonathan Frakes (Star Trek:TNG), actor Richard Dean Anderson (MacGuyver), Football (american) kicker Chris Klewe (Minnisota Vikings?), actor Brandon Routh (superman), comedian Dave Chappelle, legendary red sox pitcher Curt Shilling (I seem to recall reading that he was actually starting his own gaming company now that he's retired), and many numerous others are confirmed to play. With a subscription base of over 11 million players, it stands to reason that there will be a very high percentage of non-geeks playing.

Reply
2
Active Contributor

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: The Darkest Depths of Hell
Posts: 19
Good Answers: 1
#18

Re: Dungeons & Dragons: Geeky Fun or Gateway to Hell?

10/01/2009 11:55 AM

Don't get alot of D&D folks down here, the game is harmless until you start confusing reality with fantasy.

__________________
When you fight evil with evil, evil always wins
Reply Good Answer (Score 2)
Power-User

Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 203
Good Answers: 6
#24

Re: Dungeons & Dragons: Geeky Fun or Gateway to Hell?

10/05/2009 5:51 PM

Together my 11 year old son and I play an online free game called Runescape. We both enjoy the fighter/fantasy world and I decided that this would be a good teaching tool as well as entertaining. There are a few things about the game's lore that I don't like and my son and I discuss how what we believe about reality differs from the worldview of Runescape. I allow my son to play Runescape because the magic just happens when you have enough runes (the reason there is magic) in your inventory and are at a high enough level to use them. Also, for the most part in the free version you slay goblins, wizards, dragons, demons, hellhounds, etc. However I see a big difference between the free version of Runescape and D&D. I would not want my son exposed to D&D now or through his teenage years and beyond. The worldview of D&D has a huge influence (morally) on young people and the sorcery (memorizing spells) is as close to authentic as possible. I could spend a lengthy time giving a commentary from a Christian perspective, but at this point I will just say I'm not a fan.

__________________
Faith is not blind, it is supremely reasonable.
Reply
Guru
Canada - Member - New Member

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Posts: 629
Good Answers: 39
#25
In reply to #24

Re: Dungeons & Dragons: Geeky Fun or Gateway to Hell?

10/05/2009 6:19 PM

I would love to hear a lengthy commentary on how "The worldview of D&D has a huge influence (morally) on young people and the sorcery (memorizing spells) is as close to authentic as possible." Especially the part about authentic sorcery.

__________________
All that is required for evil to succeed is for good men to do nothing.
Reply
Guru
United States - Member - USA! Hobbies - Musician - Sound Man Engineering Fields - Mechanical Engineering - More than a Hobby Technical Fields - Technical Writing - New Member

Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: City of Roses.
Posts: 2056
Good Answers: 99
#26
In reply to #25

Re: Dungeons & Dragons: Geeky Fun or Gateway to Hell?

10/05/2009 6:32 PM

OOOh! OOOh! so would I.

Fireball! Fireball! Fireball! Kaplooie!

__________________
Don't believe everything you read on the Internet!
Reply
Guru
Hobbies - Fishing -

Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Burnt Ranch, State of Jefferson
Posts: 688
Good Answers: 20
#27
In reply to #24

Re: Dungeons & Dragons: Geeky Fun or Gateway to Hell?

10/05/2009 6:42 PM

"The worldview of D&D has a huge influence (morally) on young people and the sorcery (memorizing spells) is as close to authentic as possible. I could spend a lengthy time giving a commentary from a Christian perspective, but at this point I will just say I'm not a fan."

Really?! Let's hear it, please. I'm very interested.

__________________
“Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it.” -Mark Twain
Reply
Commentator

Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 68
#29
In reply to #27

Re: Dungeons & Dragons: Geeky Fun or Gateway to Hell?

10/06/2009 12:45 PM

Same here.

See, I'm a Christian, the practicing non bible thumping give people the benefit of the doubt kind.

My brother and I both played this game as kids, he still does. I moved on to online gaming and actually met my fiance this way. We have no issues with understanding the difference between reality and fantasy because we didn't spend our lives excessively sheltered from life.

I have friends of many faiths and many interests and some of them have played their share of D&D over the years. None of them have grown up to be psychos or have issues with understanding reality or that magic spells can't solve your problems.

Several of them are very open minded to new ideas however.

Including the fact that things we think are fantasy may not be.

Like panda bears.

Reply
Guru

Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 519
Good Answers: 11
#31
In reply to #29

Re: Dungeons & Dragons: Geeky Fun or Gateway to Hell?

10/06/2009 1:12 PM

I think the problem is that people are scared of what they don't understand.

When I first got into D&D, I was reading about the development of characters and how you should pick the god that you worship. My thoughts were that people that don't play the game and possibly only get 5 minutes of exposure might take this the wrong way.

Personally, I can tell the difference in reality and fantasy so I had no intention on worshipping one of these D&D gods.

Reply
Commentator

Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 68
#33
In reply to #31

Re: Dungeons & Dragons: Geeky Fun or Gateway to Hell?

10/06/2009 1:36 PM

Same here...

Though I do eat the body and blood of Christ every week.

Say... I bet that's why a bunch of MY ancestors were stoned or crucified.

Hmmm...

Perhaps lack of information IS why people think bad things about innocent behaviors?

Reply
Guru
Canada - Member - New Member

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Posts: 629
Good Answers: 39
#57
In reply to #24

Re: Dungeons & Dragons: Geeky Fun or Gateway to Hell?

10/06/2009 3:39 PM

Just checked out the hiscore lists for Runescape, my wife (Apoticat) still has 6 skills in the top 100,000 and 1 in the top 15,000. I (Apothicus) only have 5 in the top 100,000 but my rune making rank is still pretty high.

And that is after 6 years away from the game, not bad if I do say so myself.

Used to make 3,000,000 gold a day back then, now if only i could do that in Lord of the Rings. Does a Robin Hood hat still sell for 6 million?

__________________
All that is required for evil to succeed is for good men to do nothing.
Reply
Power-User

Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 203
Good Answers: 6
#58
In reply to #57

Re: Dungeons & Dragons: Geeky Fun or Gateway to Hell?

10/06/2009 3:46 PM

Market Price: 3.4 million

__________________
Faith is not blind, it is supremely reasonable.
Reply
Power-User

Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 203
Good Answers: 6
#32

Re: Dungeons & Dragons: Geeky Fun or Gateway to Hell?

10/06/2009 1:29 PM

While I do not personally recommend D&D and think it is best avoided I do not believe there is a organized conspiracy afoot to recruit young people to witchcraft. Nor do I think it causes people to become psychotic or suicidal. There is a great deal within D&D that is pure fantasy and imagination, maybe even most of it, however it is the sprinkling of actual occultic practices that disturbs me and causes me to steer my son in other directions.

The Christian worldview (at least taken at face value) recognizes an unseen reality beyond our natural perception, but it is not a "force". Paganism, Wiccan practices and occultic mysticism believe in an unseen reality as well, but interpret this as forces to be manipulated by gaining secret knowledge, whether "good" or "evil". D&D introduces this concept to young minds. I understand that there are not spoken spells within D&D, but it's some of the concepts behind them that I think it is wise for the young to avoid, ones that are occultic and many wiccans and psychics practice. Below are a few examples.

The caster touches a corpse and is able to see the last 5 minutes of their life culminating in their death.

The caster temporarily enchants an implement associated with a craft

Using this spell the caster can infect a person with a disease of their choice

This extremely powerful spell grants vast sensory powers via the sight of the caster

The caster becomes mystically aware of the Astral and Ethereal Planes

The caster seeks out a sleeping mind and bedevils the sleeper with horrifying nightmares.

There are numerous D&D spell books outlining spell descriptions (what they do) that a good dungeon master is encouraged to memorize to create a better game experience.

The Christian is to think God's thoughts after Him (written revelation) not to seek secret or forbidden knowledge. Sadly there are many practices that have been incorporated into contemporary Christian practices where Christians have failed to see how wrong conclusions about spiritual things has had devastating effects.

I will write about the morality side of the issue when I have more time.

__________________
Faith is not blind, it is supremely reasonable.
Reply
3
Guru
Canada - Member - New Member

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Posts: 629
Good Answers: 39
#35
In reply to #32

Re: Dungeons & Dragons: Geeky Fun or Gateway to Hell?

10/06/2009 1:50 PM

Just a couple of things I have to ask......

  1. "There is a great deal within D&D that is pure fantasy and imagination, maybe even most of it," ......Maybe??
  2. "The Christian worldview " ........ when did the christians agree on a worldview? Did I miss a memo? As far as I have witnessed they are quite likely to be found killing each other over some detail of faith. Or did the "troubles" in Ireland not really happen?
  3. "not to seek secret or forbidden knowledge." Forbidden by whom?
  4. "not to seek secret or forbidden knowledge." Secrets are only secret until they are discovered, sort of like the laws of thermodynamics. Wouldn't be much of an engineer if you didn't go to that secret university and learn all that forbidden stuff.
  5. My wife and I played Runescape for about 5 years and have never we seen an online game so full of foul language, l;ewd behaviour and other players trying to cheat and scam the younger more gullible players. Not a great example for people of any age.

And finally lets all remember.......ITS A GAME. You pretend to do these things .....get it?

__________________
All that is required for evil to succeed is for good men to do nothing.
Reply Good Answer (Score 3)
Guru

Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 519
Good Answers: 11
#37
In reply to #35

Re: Dungeons & Dragons: Geeky Fun or Gateway to Hell?

10/06/2009 1:59 PM

I don't agree with him either but it sounds like he at least did some research and made an educated decision about his child. I still feel that parents should be responsible for raising their children and they can only do that to the best of their knowledge.

Reply
Commentator

Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 68
#39
In reply to #35

Re: Dungeons & Dragons: Geeky Fun or Gateway to Hell?

10/06/2009 2:07 PM

Good answer for the lolz!

I grok that.

As for #5... Try being a moderator. You might help but like me, you will probably just give up and try educating younger players so they don't get scammed. I'm resident baby sitter on my gaming site now personally.

Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru
Canada - Member - New Member

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Posts: 629
Good Answers: 39
#42
In reply to #39

Re: Dungeons & Dragons: Geeky Fun or Gateway to Hell?

10/06/2009 2:24 PM

"Try being a moderator,and try educating younger players so they don't get scammed."

We actually did that for a while, more on a 1 to 1 basis though by "adopting" some of the kids on the game. Its been 5 or 6 years now since we were on Runescape. 4 years we spent running an adults only guild on WoW untill the competativeness just drove us away. That game seems like just a mad rush to get the best gear so that you can lord it over other players.

Lord of the Rings though is a real change. Where you can never ask for help without several people actually going out of their way to assist you. The word NOOB is never seen or heard. And most of all, the "role playing" is taken quite seriously by most players. A game where I can have just as much fun haggling with a visiting dwarf over the price of the taters I grew in the shire as I can running the top notch dungeons with 4 or 5 other top level players.

Oh and did I mention the music system, where your character can actually play any song you like? Or any song you can find in an ABC file format that is ....or write your own. You really haven't played a role playing game untill you have spent the night at the party tree in the shire listening to the Hobbiton Philharmonic's version of The Beatles.

__________________
All that is required for evil to succeed is for good men to do nothing.
Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Commentator

Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 68
#49
In reply to #42

Re: Dungeons & Dragons: Geeky Fun or Gateway to Hell?

10/06/2009 2:41 PM

Must... resist.. lure... of more... RP games....

Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Power-User

Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 203
Good Answers: 6
#45
In reply to #35

Re: Dungeons & Dragons: Geeky Fun or Gateway to Hell?

10/06/2009 2:28 PM

1. Would like a percentage? My point was a small amount of leven is the problem I have with D&D

2. We are not discussing Christian doctrinal differences here, my use of "Christian worldview" is to generally distinguish it from say a Hindu worldview.

3. Forbidden by the God of the Old and New Testaments

4. good grief... never mind then

5. As I indicated we play on a free account which has no regular chat capabilities. I have never come across one player being lewd, cursing us or trying to cheating.

I think your point of curiosity about my comments was just to jump all over my reasons to raise my son in a different direction based upon the vast "entertainment" choices in the world today.

__________________
Faith is not blind, it is supremely reasonable.
Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Commentator

Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 68
#36
In reply to #32

Re: Dungeons & Dragons: Geeky Fun or Gateway to Hell?

10/06/2009 1:59 PM

It didn't harm you but it might harm your child.

Why?

Isn't your child as smart, as well educated as you were at that age? If not, why have you not corrected this?

I don't know a single sane reasonably well adjusted person that mistook ANYTHING in D&D for reality no matter how well thought out. Does anyone else?

Generally, I might add, it's a bad idea to thump someone else's religion. You may not agree with the wiccan religion but it's not invalid any more than any other religion including yours Jesus eater. It's not ok to tell someone their religion is wrong or bad.

You never know who might be reading your words after all.

PS. I'm a Jesus eater too. People like us used to die on crosses in big bonfires. Let's not repeat the past and return the favor on others. I don't think our Boss would like it very much.

Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Power-User

Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 203
Good Answers: 6
#40
In reply to #36

Re: Dungeons & Dragons: Geeky Fun or Gateway to Hell?

10/06/2009 2:18 PM

I didn't play D&D as a child or adult

My hope is that Wiccans I encounter can come to see that Christ Jesus is the Truth.

Don't worry mini-goat, I don't think anyone would burn you.

__________________
Faith is not blind, it is supremely reasonable.
Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru
United States - Member - USA! Hobbies - Musician - Sound Man Engineering Fields - Mechanical Engineering - More than a Hobby Technical Fields - Technical Writing - New Member

Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: City of Roses.
Posts: 2056
Good Answers: 99
#41
In reply to #40

Re: Dungeons & Dragons: Geeky Fun or Gateway to Hell?

10/06/2009 2:22 PM

I'm not sure religious talk is an appropriate conversation topic on an Engineering Forum, unless it has something to do with the laws on this earth that we all must adhere to.

(physics, chemistry, electronics etc etc etc...)

Feel free to burn me If you wish.

__________________
Don't believe everything you read on the Internet!
Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Active Contributor

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: The Darkest Depths of Hell
Posts: 19
Good Answers: 1
#43
In reply to #40

Re: Dungeons & Dragons: Geeky Fun or Gateway to Hell?

10/06/2009 2:26 PM

Who's "truth" ?

Why would you hope this for Wiccans and not others such as Satanists or Catholics? (We have plenty of both down here)

__________________
When you fight evil with evil, evil always wins
Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru
United States - Member - USA! Hobbies - Musician - Sound Man Engineering Fields - Mechanical Engineering - More than a Hobby Technical Fields - Technical Writing - New Member

Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: City of Roses.
Posts: 2056
Good Answers: 99
#44
In reply to #43

Re: Dungeons & Dragons: Geeky Fun or Gateway to Hell?

10/06/2009 2:27 PM

Truth is relative.

__________________
Don't believe everything you read on the Internet!
Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Power-User

Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 203
Good Answers: 6
#47
In reply to #44

Re: Dungeons & Dragons: Geeky Fun or Gateway to Hell?

10/06/2009 2:34 PM

I wonder if everyone driving home from work today is testing that by asking if it's really true that the light coming up is really red.

__________________
Faith is not blind, it is supremely reasonable.
Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru
United States - Member - USA! Hobbies - Musician - Sound Man Engineering Fields - Mechanical Engineering - More than a Hobby Technical Fields - Technical Writing - New Member

Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: City of Roses.
Posts: 2056
Good Answers: 99
#48
In reply to #47

Re: Dungeons & Dragons: Geeky Fun or Gateway to Hell?

10/06/2009 2:40 PM

Well, are they colorblind? If they are, the light may very well not be red as you know red to be.... so the "truth" of your analogy would be that you "perceive" red to be red... therefore, it is relative.

__________________
Don't believe everything you read on the Internet!
Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru
Canada - Member - New Member

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Posts: 629
Good Answers: 39
#51
In reply to #48

Re: Dungeons & Dragons: Geeky Fun or Gateway to Hell?

10/06/2009 2:43 PM

Have you taken your speed and doepler shift into account?

__________________
All that is required for evil to succeed is for good men to do nothing.
Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Commentator

Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 68
#53
In reply to #47

Re: Dungeons & Dragons: Geeky Fun or Gateway to Hell?

10/06/2009 2:44 PM

Only if a cop is behind me.

Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Commentator

Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 68
#52
In reply to #43

Re: Dungeons & Dragons: Geeky Fun or Gateway to Hell?

10/06/2009 2:43 PM

Aren't they pretty much the same thing most of the time?

Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru
Canada - Member - New Member

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Posts: 629
Good Answers: 39
#46
In reply to #40

Re: Dungeons & Dragons: Geeky Fun or Gateway to Hell?

10/06/2009 2:29 PM

I win I win .... thank you.

I had picked between 40 & 45 posts before "one like this" showed up in the office pool!

__________________
All that is required for evil to succeed is for good men to do nothing.
Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Commentator

Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 68
#54
In reply to #46

Re: Dungeons & Dragons: Geeky Fun or Gateway to Hell?

10/06/2009 2:45 PM

Hmm.. he DID rather jump the shark didn't he?

Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Commentator

Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 68
#50
In reply to #40

Re: Dungeons & Dragons: Geeky Fun or Gateway to Hell?

10/06/2009 2:42 PM

Nah, I'd smite them.

Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru
Canada - Member - New Member

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Posts: 629
Good Answers: 39
#55

Re: Dungeons & Dragons: Geeky Fun or Gateway to Hell?

10/06/2009 2:54 PM

Getting back to the original topic.

D&D is the greatest game ever IMHO. It was like lego for the mind. With absolutly no limits to where you could go with it except for the limits of your imagination. It lead me to read books on medival civilization and geography so that I could better construct my world. Just to know what all the different weapons offered were required many trips to encyclopeadias. I searched high and low for floor plans of actual castles to use in my scenerios and a little understanding of archetecture was required to make my own realistic. And still, no matter how well you plan out your game ...... those players always seemed to take it somewhere else.

The mind is like a muscle, the more you use it and stretch it the better it becomes. In todays age of prefabricated regimented toys I think the challenge of creating an entire world in which to live your imaginations greatest fantasies would be a terrific learning experience for anyone young or old.

And by the way ....there is no rule in the DMs guide that says you have to use those spells. In fact it would be an interesting excercise to build a world without the spell caster classes.

__________________
All that is required for evil to succeed is for good men to do nothing.
Reply
Commentator

Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 68
#56
In reply to #55

Re: Dungeons & Dragons: Geeky Fun or Gateway to Hell?

10/06/2009 3:04 PM

Indeed.

Saying anything otherwise is akin to Del saying he really is a cat or that I really am a goat.

Just because I'll eat nearly anything you set in front of me doesn't make me a goat in real life.

My idea of fun as a kid was making up stories about the things I saw. Well, that and playing with Lego blocks... but I suspect that one goes without saying for just about anyone here young enough to have been a child no earlier than the 70s.

D&D is just a big made up story about made up people doing made up things.

I've seen much more damage done by romance novels than role playing games. Now THERE is some fantasy writing!

Reply
Guru

Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 519
Good Answers: 11
#59
In reply to #56

Re: Dungeons & Dragons: Geeky Fun or Gateway to Hell?

10/06/2009 3:50 PM

Good point. Before I even knew what D&D was, I would take all my toys out, pick heroes and villans, and then create storylines for each character as I played through some epic plot.

I guess the only real difference is that D&D gives a guideline for how to use your imagination.

Reply
Power-User

Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 203
Good Answers: 6
#60
In reply to #59

Re: Dungeons & Dragons: Geeky Fun or Gateway to Hell?

10/06/2009 5:06 PM

Hello cingold,

I appreciate you comments about parenting,

Here is an analogy that might make my thinking a bit clearer as to influences and their effects.

Lets say that three young men meet in college, John, Tim and my son

• John has played D&D since he was 12 and enjoys biking

• Tim's main interest has been chess, which he learned from his father at a young age

• My son likes anything computer related and plays soccer.

During their first semester they are invited by another student to a séance scheduled for the upcoming Saturday. None of them have ever been to one before or have any family tales about attendance of one.

The three of them discuss the invitation. Who do you think would have the least apprehension about going between John and Tim?

__________________
Faith is not blind, it is supremely reasonable.
Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru
Canada - Member - New Member

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Posts: 629
Good Answers: 39
#61
In reply to #60

Re: Dungeons & Dragons: Geeky Fun or Gateway to Hell?

10/06/2009 5:15 PM

John would go because it would be another chance to enjoy a fun fantasy experience.

Tim? No idea but if he was an open minded young man would go just to see what all the fuss was about.

Your son would go because he has first hand experience in dealing with fictional worlds as if they are real and would be the only one to take the whole thing seriously.

__________________
All that is required for evil to succeed is for good men to do nothing.
Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Power-User

Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 203
Good Answers: 6
#62
In reply to #61

Re: Dungeons & Dragons: Geeky Fun or Gateway to Hell?

10/06/2009 5:33 PM

My question was who would have the least apprehension about going, not who would go and who would not go. I would hope that my son would not go, but I'm certain he would have the most apprehension about going.

Your other comments confirm my premise completely, because you believe all reference to occultism is fantasy and has no root in reality.

I'll continue steering my son down a narrow path and continue to encourage his imagination in other artistic endeavors.

__________________
Faith is not blind, it is supremely reasonable.
Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru
Canada - Member - New Member

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Posts: 629
Good Answers: 39
#63
In reply to #62

Re: Dungeons & Dragons: Geeky Fun or Gateway to Hell?

10/06/2009 5:49 PM

You are entirely correct.

Occultism is not real, with all its references to "hidden and secret knowledge". It is right up there with astrology, hobgoblins and faries at the bottom of the garden. If anyone can show me a spell cast under laboratory conditions I will begin to believe it. We can then study it and learn what forces of nature allow it to take place. Once that is determined it will no longer be "hidden" or "secret" therefore no longer occult.

As Arthur C Clarke said famously, "any superior technology is indistinguishable from magic". Much of what we take for granted today would be called magic not that long ago. This internet discussion, taking place between people hundreds or thousands of miles apart would have been "occult" just a few decades ago.

While it is your right to raise your children as you see fit please don't try to put the same restraints on the rest of us. Narrow paths lead to narrow views and seldom if ever lead to inovation, invention and progress.

__________________
All that is required for evil to succeed is for good men to do nothing.
Reply Off Topic (Score 4)
Power-User

Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 203
Good Answers: 6
#65
In reply to #63

Re: Dungeons & Dragons: Geeky Fun or Gateway to Hell?

10/06/2009 7:50 PM

Yes, our "worldviews" are completely opposite. You have an atheistic, naturalistic one and I have a theistic, super-naturalistic one. But this is obvious because I stated my Christian "leanings" ever since my first post on this thread.

Just because you declare this is nonsense or that is nonsense based on empirical investigation does not make it so, just like my declarations don't make things true or not.

Here is an actual instance of why ultimate truth cannot be subjective, because what each one of us believes contradicts the other, both cannot be true.

Because I used the word occultism does not mean that I've been sold the farm, much of what passes for weird phenomenon is psychosomatic or hypnotic suggestion and the like. Much of what goes on is really about deception, because yes, as a Christian, I do take at face value that an angelic/demonic realm exists. Obviously I am not talking about and understand your allusions to superior technology or contemporary scientific understanding of things dispelling a primitive peoples belief that the thunder god was angry. I know you equate it as the same, but the authority of what my God declares in the Old and New Testament is what binds me. To just declare its the same as fairies in the garden is very simplistic thinking by someone whose mind has been so exercised by D&D.

As you know most people who believe in "god" believe in some sort of supernatural realm, what puzzles me is that you speak as if you represent the majority of human thinking in this area, and if this is not the case you must think you are intellectually superior to most people, being a staunch empiricist.

I believe you cannot make sense out of the world in which we live based solely on a materialistic view of the universe.

"Narrow paths lead to narrow views and seldom if ever lead to innovation, invention and progress."

Just a cursory view of many individual Christians contributions to human history shows you simply don't know what you're talking about.

Straight is the gate and narrow is the path...

__________________
Faith is not blind, it is supremely reasonable.
Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru
Engineering Fields - Aerospace Engineering - Member United States - Member - Army Vet in the aviation industry

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Bridgewater, Va.
Posts: 2027
Good Answers: 112
#69
In reply to #65

Re: Dungeons & Dragons: Geeky Fun or Gateway to Hell?

10/09/2009 3:34 PM

"...both cannot be true."

Why not? If "God" is omnipotent and omniscient and can make anything beyond our ability to fathom it, than it is certainly possible for both (or all) to be true.

After a cursory study of quantum theory, I had a personal epiphany that anything is possible. Changed my outlook considerably. That's when I rejected any religious based belief system that claimed they were right and everybody else was wrong.

Hooker

Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Power-User

Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 203
Good Answers: 6
#70
In reply to #69

Re: Dungeons & Dragons: Geeky Fun or Gateway to Hell?

10/09/2009 3:57 PM

You're right...you're wrong....no wait, you're both.

__________________
Faith is not blind, it is supremely reasonable.
Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru
United States - Member - USA! Hobbies - Musician - Sound Man Engineering Fields - Mechanical Engineering - More than a Hobby Technical Fields - Technical Writing - New Member

Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: City of Roses.
Posts: 2056
Good Answers: 99
#71
In reply to #69

Re: Dungeons & Dragons: Geeky Fun or Gateway to Hell?

10/09/2009 5:10 PM

"That's when I rejected any religious based belief system that claimed they were right and everybody else was wrong."

Hallelujah brotha. When It comes to religion, If you believe it, you are right, and so is everybody else.

Acceptance, Tolerance, and goodwill in general, should be the basis... Too bad its not.

__________________
Don't believe everything you read on the Internet!
Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru

Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 519
Good Answers: 11
#67
In reply to #63

Re: Dungeons & Dragons: Geeky Fun or Gateway to Hell?

10/07/2009 8:06 AM

"If anyone can show me a spell cast under laboratory conditions I will begin to believe it."

Maybe not under laboratory conditions but I just cast a polymorph spell on you. Give it a few minutes to travel through the internet. And...there you are now a cat. Although the ninja part was unpredicted.

Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru
United States - Member - USA! Hobbies - Musician - Sound Man Engineering Fields - Mechanical Engineering - More than a Hobby Technical Fields - Technical Writing - New Member

Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: City of Roses.
Posts: 2056
Good Answers: 99
#64
In reply to #60

Re: Dungeons & Dragons: Geeky Fun or Gateway to Hell?

10/06/2009 7:15 PM

I say they should all attend, and leave if they wish. Only after actually being exposed to something can they then make any truly educated decision for themselves. Everyone has their own brain, and in it their own thoughts and experiences from which they have learned. To deprive them of their own thoughts and experiences is not good practice.

The three people in the hypothetical situation will use their experience and knowledge to make their decisions. The one who has been the most sheltered, and has had the least amount of real world experience (or have been told that the experience would be bad or evil by someone else), will undoubtedly be the most curious, and be the most likely to attend. The one who has working knowledge or experience in the matter will already know what its all about, and not have the sense of curiosity that the other does, will be less likely to attend.

Do not think just keeping your kids in the dark from the wretched world we all live in will properly set them up for living in the wretched world we all live in. It is more likely than not the sheltered religious children who rebel the most, and end up getting hurt along the way. As parents it's up to us to make sure they are well rounded, exposed to many different things, good and bad, so they can make the right decisions when actually faced with them in the real world.

__________________
Don't believe everything you read on the Internet!
Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Power-User

Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 203
Good Answers: 6
#66
In reply to #64

Re: Dungeons & Dragons: Geeky Fun or Gateway to Hell?

10/06/2009 8:18 PM

I can understand what you are getting at. Its the old adage if the boy touches the hot stove he learns a lesson and won't touch it again (we hope). But in many areas of life we don't operate that way.

A boy does not need to get bit by the rattler, nor see someone get bit to be taught by his father to be cautious, steer clear of certain areas, ware the right boots, etc. Some things have more damaging results if stumbled into.

My son's spiritual health, ie his relationship to God, is as important as his physical health, and this is about faith and love, not cold law keeping. Many religious homes do have children who rebel, many because it is just a dead letter with no real love of God.

What bad things should we expose them to? Drugs? Prostitution? Anthrax? It's not good to just randomly talk about things without exploring what is really being said

The wretched world can be discussed and compared, showing them the path of wisdom. Children do not need to be thrown into the mud and get some kind of experiential diploma of worldly wisdom.

__________________
Faith is not blind, it is supremely reasonable.
Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Commentator

Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 68
#68
In reply to #66

Re: Dungeons & Dragons: Geeky Fun or Gateway to Hell?

10/07/2009 8:33 AM

Personally, I rebelled when I was given 'because I said so' sorts of answers and not actual reasons.

It's not my mom's fault her kids were both smarter than her, it was her fault for not at least trying to state her reasoning beyond blind fear.

Your kid is the one most likely to attend the seance. And frankly, I doubt very much you have been to one or you would have laughed at the suggestion yourself. They are a joke 98% of the time.

I say only 98% because there's a 2% chance someone might actually be doing something right.

And how do you know God didn't lead him to that seance to protect those heathens from evil spirits?

Most scientific people I know have an open mind about unusual experiences but tend to analyze the obvious misrepresentations of facts away.

Teach your kid to do that at an early age and it won't matter if he goes to a seance or not because he will know its (almost) all fake.

On a divergent note... many times in the bible people see spirits and angels and ghosts. Including Jesus, Peter, etc. There was nothing 'occult' about it.

My suggestions is take some comparative theology classes and then make an informed decision. Know your enemy. Better yet, make your enemy your friend. Jesus hung out with hookers and tax collectors. Teach your son tolerance, not hatred and fear.

then he will be a 'true' Christian.

Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Reply to Blog Entry 71 comments
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.

Comments rated to be Good Answers:

These comments received enough positive ratings to make them "good answers".

Comments rated to be "almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, rate them!
Copy to Clipboard

Users who posted comments:

Anonymous Poster (1); Apothicus (12); april05 (1); cingold (7); Del the cat (3); Dr. Ozone (2); Gallar (1); Hooker (1); lighthasmass (2); mini-goat (13); ozzb (2); RVZ717 (9); Sharkles (1); sue (2); TeslaFan (11); Vi Pham (3)

Previous in Blog: An Engineer Remembers September 11th – Part 2 (Final)   Next in Blog: E-Memories: Changing What it Means to be Human?

Advertisement