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Book Review: Unscientific America (Introduction)

Posted October 05, 2009 12:01 AM by Steve Melito

"The serious appreciation of science could become confined to a small group of already dedicated elites, when it should be a value we all share," warn Chris Mooney and Sheril Kirschenbaum in Unscientific America: How Scientific Illiteracy Threatens Our Future (2009, Basic Books).

Mooney, the author of a previous New York Times bestseller, is a journalist who now writes about how scientists need to "communicate their knowledge in ways that non-scientists can relate to and understand". Kirschenbaum, a marine scientist who once worked on Capitol Hill, knows "how difficult it can be to integrate science into the public policy process" – and how scientists and elected officials often fail to communicate.

Full Disclosure

Last July, I contacted Chris Mooney to request an advance copy of Unscientific America on behalf of CR4 and "The Engineer's Book Club". Graciously, he agreed. What follows is the first installment of a four-part book review. Today's blog entry sets the stage by examining the book's two introductory chapters. The other three entries in this review will discuss the book's Parts 1, 2 and 3, respectively.

Why Pluto Matters

The United States stands on the threshold of scientific discoveries that "could redefine who we are and even upend our society", Mooney and Kirschenbaum claim. But the gap between the scientific community and the rest of American society continues to grow. Consider the case of Pluto, which lost its status as a planet in 2006. After astronomers "voted to excommunicate the ninth planet from the solar system," people donned T-shirts with slogans such as "Stop Planetary Discrimination".

The astronomers who "excommunicated" Pluto had sound reasons for their decision, of course, but their arguments were ignored by their critics. Americans may live in the Information Age, but information isn't the same as science. "The Internet," Mooney and Kirschenbaum explain, "has simultaneously become the best and the worst source of information on science." Then there are the blurry lines between entertainment and infotainment. All too often, "scientists in film and television tend to be depicted as villains, geeks, or jerks." In other words, they're not trustworthy.

Chris Mooney and Sheril Kirschenbaum are well-educated, of course, but their criticisms aren't meant to be condescending. There's plenty of blame to go around, but the authors don't drop it all at the doorsteps of those who would never read a book with such as staid title such as Unscientific America. Rather, the authors worry more that "too many smart, talented, influential people throughout our society don't see the centrality of science in their lives; and too many scientists don't know how to explain it to them".

Rethinking the Problem of Scientific Illiteracy

Critics of America's educational system often complain that its high school graduates are scientifically illiterate. The nation's scientists seem all too eager to agree, blaming "the public" for failing to accept global warming and evolution. As Unscientific America notes, however, citizens of other nations (including the European Union) "don't fare much better on scientific literacy surveys". Opponents of global warming and evolution may be wrong (in the opinions of Mooney and Kirschenbaum), but they are neither ignorant nor intellectually disengaged.

Ultimately, "the lack of scientific knowledge probably isn't our main problem", the authors note. "We don't need average citizens to become robotic memorizers of scientific facts or regular readers of the scientific literature". Rather, the authors argue for repositioning science in a way in which it has "far more relevance to the life of every American". Such as "scientific America" would require its scientists to fill the role of "friendly instructor" rather than "condescending detractor and belittler".

Author's Note: The other three parts of this book review will run soon.

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#1

Re: Book Review: Unscientific America (Introduction)

10/05/2009 10:42 PM

Excellent beginning of a review of what seems likely to be an excellent book. I'm looking forward to the continuation(s).

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#2

Re: Book Review: Unscientific America (Introduction)

10/05/2009 11:54 PM

Very interesting. We have been over using the natural resources for our immediate benefit and the future genearation will suffer because of it. Very important topic.

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#37
In reply to #2

Re: Book Review: Unscientific America (Introduction)

10/21/2010 5:16 PM

What does this comment have to do with actual science? A large majority of those promoting the most exteme versions of psuedo-science, eastern science, or anyother psuedonym are environmental activists trying to validate their drug-enhanced unsubstantiated opinions by using the term science, inappropriately. Isn't the whole concept to provide sound scientific theories on which to base decision, something the climate change people involved in the political arena seem to fail to do. Just like the idea of over-using our natural resources. Whose natural resources? The worlds? I have never seen any scientific research supporting a concept that we will deplete the natural resources of the earth absolutely. Well at least none that hasn't been disproven many times over, and even that was not really scientific in methodology. The more people know about the study of climate change, the more likely they are to oppose the political fear mongers preaching an apocalypse. It would actually be more beneficial to the climate change proponents if people did remain ignorant, just with the little knowledge they provide and nothing contrary to their own beliefs. If the public became aware of much more accepted research indicating much higher global temperatures prior to the ice ages than currently, that polar bears only evolved about 50 ky ago and are just a hybrid of grizzly bears (a sexually viable hybrid), ad infitinum. People might repond more poorly to the funding currently being spent if they knew any more. It is much easier to get funding for psuedo science when people really don't have the knowledge to make the distinction between or evaluate the importance of string theory research versus a local population of steelhead habitat "research".

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#3

Re: Book Review: Unscientific America (Introduction)

10/05/2009 11:56 PM

I too am intrigued.

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#4

Re: Book Review: Unscientific America (Introduction)

10/06/2009 12:20 AM

The problem as I see it is just that intelligent just isn't all that it is thought to be. Average IQ is 100. Most of us on here can't conceive of what that means. The statement that HALF THE POPULATION IS BELOW AVERAGE is incomprehensible to most people. 85% of the population is below 115. 115 is not that great, really. It is a wonder to me that society doesn't collapse on itself. I expect at some point it will. Technology is just a magic black box to most people and they are fine with that. Incomprehensible but true. They really don't want to know how it works the just want it to work. Remember the "surface dwellers" in H. G. Wells' Time Machine? They are the Eloi and we are the Morlocks. Get used to it, it isn't going to get any better. It's just the nature of things.

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#14
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Re: Book Review: Unscientific America (Introduction)

10/06/2009 11:37 AM

"Half the population is below average"? Of course, that would be within the definition of average for a Gaussian distribution. So I wonder what you are trying to say. The IQ distribution, in theory, is supposed to represent a smooth gaussian distribution of the intelligence quotients of all the individuals in society, not a bimodal distribution. the problem currently in our society is that most people do not advance as fast as the higher IQ end of the society, and it is actually beneficial that they do not. You are paid vastly better to sell real estate still than obtain a PhD in physics and model subatomic particles. Very poorly educated biologists make decisions about infrastructure development with little or no education about development, planning or engineering. It pays way more to play a Medical Doctor on TV with no higher education than to actually be a Medical Doctor. However, for many of those with Higher IQs are in jobs that keep the mechanical systems and infrastructure of society from falling apart with ever declining budgets. Slowly as the mass of society falls behind they , much like the uneducated poor of Russia in the 19th Century, be come more highly socialistic, with expectations of being cared for in those areas they consider needs, but paying exhorbitant prices for luxuries, and we have become a society of decadence where we can waste money and resources to try and leave no member behind, rather than devoting those resoources to advancing our society, consequentially leading to leaving more behind in comparison to the rest of the world. Our decadence leads to the idea of it becoming a flat world.

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#35
In reply to #14

Re: Book Review: Unscientific America (Introduction)

10/21/2010 12:47 PM

Re: QUOTE:"However, for many of those with Higher IQs are in jobs that keep the mechanical systems & infrastructures of society from falling apart ..... ." I AGREE WITH YOUR STATEMENT 100%. I was happy to complete 50 yrs working at Communications,Power,&/or Electronics, after I received my release Papers From Military Electronics before I was 20yrs.old, & discovered there were 3 of us who had the blessing of Matching The Same IQ #s & Have the Highest IQ in The Canadian Military (in 1955).

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Anonymous Poster
#38
In reply to #35

Re: Book Review: Unscientific America (Introduction)

10/21/2010 5:28 PM

Not sure if you are trying to tell us you have a high IQ or the Canadian military had a particularly low overall IQ in 1955.

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#5

Re: Book Review: Unscientific America (Introduction)

10/06/2009 1:11 AM

Moose,

Science in its real practical meaning denotes truth and facts. Of the search for truth, the cause and effect probing brings out scientific truths in its perfected outset. It is not confined to technical aspects alone. The social behaviour, conflicts, view clashes, blaming and activities can be brought under the shadow of scientific evaluations and effective solutions can be derived for all problems concerned. Science and scientific outlook in all deeds is the only approach to solve all issues and problems. Science is man's best saviour and let us adorn it in the best possible manner.

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#39
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Re: Book Review: Unscientific America (Introduction)

10/21/2010 5:35 PM

There are no scientific truths, that would be one of the main underlying principles of science. There are just applicable rational theories that explain the mechanics of systems and haven't been disprove through reproducable experimental testing yet. application of a scientific technique to evaluate a problem does not make that activity in and of itself science. Science explains the underlying priciple about how things work in a rational argument, and that argument has to hold up against experiments to test the theory and be repeatably consistent. Science is not a saviour, or a religion, though many in certain psuedo-scientific circels seeking public support and validation would treat it as such, it is just a rational method of explaining the mechanics of a system such that we can use the theories to predict system behaviors based on the proposed system mechanics.

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#6

Re: Book Review: Unscientific America (Introduction)

10/06/2009 1:19 AM

After World War ll they were building homes without workshops or even room enough in the house for one this made the adjustment to worker bee from Independent free thinking Individual easier, is what my father told me. He thought is was a planned act to limit or keep inventive minds from entrying the market place.

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#7

Re: Book Review: Unscientific America (Introduction)

10/06/2009 2:29 AM

Science is important, and, the lack of understanding of it by the vast majority of the population is not good. However, I think we should tackle, innumeracy first, then a total inability to understand statistics, and, next peoples lack of basic engineering knowledge. The greatest nations on earth have always evolved because of their engineering strength.

Clearly engineering can be described as the application of science, but, there is a huge distinction between the two disciplines.

Ensuring that there is a strong engineering community is certain to ensure that science continues to progress. The opposite is not true.

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#8
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Re: Book Review: Unscientific America (Introduction)

10/06/2009 3:03 AM

Randall's post is good, and I agree. Yet nonetheless I wonder about the third paragraph ("Ensuring that there is a strong engineering community is certain to ensure that science continues to progress. The opposite is not true.") How is it that continued progress in science would not lead to progress and strength in engineering?

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#10
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Re: Book Review: Unscientific America (Introduction)

10/06/2009 8:17 AM

Just a "gut feeling" really. The ancient Greeks excelled at science and philosophy, but, lost their edge (in the world) because they allowed their engineering to lapse. Here in the UK we still have extraordinary research establishments, but, there is almost no engineering based industry left (I don't think anyone would argue if I said we were once the best in the world).

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#12
In reply to #10

Re: Book Review: Unscientific America (Introduction)

10/06/2009 9:52 AM

The same situation exists in the USA. With most manufacturing moving overseas, the need for technical, engineering, and scientific personnel is drastically reduced. Engineering is looked down upon by upcoming students. They see other professions earning larger money (financial, business, medical doctors) and there is a outright fear of science and math classes. We truly have done a poor job building our country up, all in the name of short-term profits sending manufacturing abroad. When I was younger major corporations were taking young people and training them up in these technical fields. Now most companies don't get involved in such work.

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#13
In reply to #12

Re: Book Review: Unscientific America (Introduction)

10/06/2009 11:11 AM

I set one whole side of our barn up as a workshop and encrouage my kids to build stuff. I ask them to build crazy machines. I also am on the look out for stuff people toss. old machines, equipment and tools. Steel gets harder and harder to find as recyclers snap it up.

They have a great time tearing stuff apart, naming and storing the parts, then learning skills like welding, wiring, design, layout ,elctrical power controls and so much more.

I think every city or town should take all it's old scrap to a place where kids can come and learn. Have to dangerous stuff removed like freon and others then give them some free time and assistance. Even teach them to repair stuff.

Get them intersted in how things work.

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#19
In reply to #12

Re: Book Review: Unscientific America (Introduction)

10/06/2009 4:46 PM

Re: "Engineering is looked down upon ... They see other professions earning larger money..."

You fergot to add : students nowadays can look forward to making *much* bigger money programming rock-'em / sock-'em video games, or, making porn, or being a "big-banker" thief ... taking paychecks and bonuses as big as a planet by manipulating numbers on pages that bear some resemblance to loan 'contracts', keeping everything juggled just right until the house of cards collapses. THEN they get their next paycheck (and bonus) from the taxpayers / government.

Why on earth would anybody want to study voraciously for several years, and work hard at being an engineer, just so you can one day be handed a "Framed $1 Bill" as token payment by your company for the patent that you just achieved for them (from which they'll make millions).

Engineers do all the laborious work --- the managers get all the outlandish party-vacations. <Take your slap in the face and get back to work!>

As for post5 --- "Science is man's best saviour and let us adorn it in the best possible manner." Nothing but shame upon you! Poorest-possible choice of words!

Peek outside the walls of your cubical once in awhile, and seek the truth about where our society is heading (whether you live in the U.S. or not), and try to tell us once again, with a straight face, that *science* is going to save us.

Thus far, scientists (and many engineers alike) haven't done any better than those aforementioned thieves 'bankers':

There prevails a "Let's do THIS, 'cuz it'll make us lots of money" attitude. ... Who cares about the resultant compounding of our problem with pollution? We'll let the next generation of 'geeks' figger that out!

Think ~ nuclear waste; coal-ash waste (60 Minutes the other night); river pollution rolling 'downhill' into Gulf-of-Mexico's "Dead-Zone"; the plastic island (off California's coast)...etc, etc, etc... ad infinitum!

Scientists and engineers alike should spend more time calculating the LONG TERM effects of their actions *before* taking those actions. And thoughts of disposal and/or recycling should be forecast-into the design phase, rather than simply saying "Hey, that's not MY problem"...

I know , I know. Everyone hit the "Reply" button and tell me that these things AREN'T "your/our" problem... those concerns are "management's" problem...!

Guess what---? It ain't just *my* great-great grand-kids who are gonna pay the price for all of our collective greediness. *You* just might have a child, who'll have children, (etc) carrying-on *your* name ... into what-kind-of-future?

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#21
In reply to #19

Re: Book Review: Unscientific America (Introduction)

10/06/2009 7:30 PM

Well I think we found the guy who buys into every government and environmentalist scare tactic. This is what happens with media uncensored by common scientific knowledge garbage in, you get garbage out like the sky is falling.

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#23
In reply to #21

Re: Book Review: Unscientific America (Introduction)

10/08/2009 1:56 AM

Just because you're not paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you...

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#31
In reply to #23

Re: Book Review: Unscientific America (Introduction)

10/12/2009 11:34 AM

Amen to that...

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#30
In reply to #21

Re: Book Review: Unscientific America (Introduction)

10/12/2009 11:33 AM

are you referring to Dad...? Let's leave personalities out of it

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#28
In reply to #19

Re: Book Review: Unscientific America (Introduction)

10/09/2009 12:00 PM

Cool Head Guest.

There happened to be two faces of a coin, likewise, Exploitation of Science with the priority options for constructive or non constructine purposes is with the RESPONSIBLE DECISION ,POLICY, LAW and SRATEGY making group in any society.Any default is the product of wrong collective or Directed decision making process. It is more of a humans involved problem.

Science is always the open book choice to all concerned.

To be a responsible human it is ideal to be a solution contributer than a blamer.

The beneficial side of all our life belongs to innumerous contributions from broad minded human leaders, scientists , thinkers and innovators.

An attitude of a benefiting the society, renouncing selfish pursuits like power, domination , greed and short sights can groom better valued humans.

Whether it is self realized or brought by education and social values, time could be the answer.

Assuming responsibility is a fruitful choice than blaming. It should at least manifest in the thinking process.

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#29
In reply to #28

Re: Book Review: Unscientific America (Introduction)

10/09/2009 5:58 PM

glad you agree!

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#22
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Re: Book Review: Unscientific America (Introduction)

10/08/2009 1:50 AM

Nevil Shute blamed some of this on the inheritance tax. He explained his move to Australia as due to the socialization of Great Britain gone to far with the stripping of family wealth which to him enabled aristocratic responsible investments and invention.

I don't know why the English do some of the weird things they do. They take a great idea and make it work, but then screw around with the details so it is overburdened with weird ways.

I had a Triumph Spitfire. It had wire wheels for example. I wrecked it and the hood nearly cut my neck off.

The transmission was really lousy.

Hawker Siddley corporate jets were the only ones where you were supposed to put nosewheel lockpin up, instead of down.

(Rule of thumb is always work with gravity, not ever against it.) I hated Viscounts more than any other plane I ever had to deal with. But hey, it is true the English won the Battle of Britian with Spitfires and Hurricanes, and they are not to be underestimated.

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#32
In reply to #22

Re: Book Review: Unscientific America (Introduction)

10/14/2009 3:15 AM

English didn't win the war with spitfires and Hurricanes alone my friend they won the war at the cost of grate American sacrifice and support .How many Americans died during world war 2

crm

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#33
In reply to #32

Re: Book Review: Unscientific America (Introduction)

10/16/2009 7:16 PM

405399

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#36
In reply to #32

Re: Book Review: Unscientific America (Introduction)

10/21/2010 1:50 PM

Actually, i think he mentioned the battle of Britain, not World War II. Besides if you base it on body count sacrificed, the russians sacrificed more men then all the other allies combined.

Also, I don't think it was the quality of the spitfires that won the battle of Britain, but rather some stupid decisions to switch to strategic bombing by the luftwaffe, the use of an extensive early warning radar system that allowed the fighters to get to altitude and mass to meet the Germans, an issue needing to redirect resources for other upcoming ventures, and well the losses by the Germans were unacceptable (unlike the american bombing raids). The Messerschmidts were fairly comparable to the Spitfire in combat, unlike something like the later mustangs or lightnings.

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#40
In reply to #7

Re: Book Review: Unscientific America (Introduction)

10/21/2010 5:43 PM

not sure about the Mongol Empire, in the 1200s they were the greatest most expansive, by orders of magnitude, empire on the planet. Engineering actually seems to be a means to stabilizing a empire more than anything, keeps it from falling apart too rapidly and supports stable growth during times of peace or times when the government becomes lazy. Statistics, well no evidence those actually support a soceity at all. And well math tends to be only useful to a society when applied to some practical problem they need solved or to aid in advancing technologies. You can have a huge engineering community and have scientific advancement stagnate, and thus technology is very slow to advance, which worked ok for rome as the advancements had occurred prior to Roman empire, and they just applied those to the same types of engineering project everywhere they went.

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#9

Re: Book Review: Unscientific America (Introduction)

10/06/2009 6:05 AM

I feel that it should have been a Global Warning instead of just America. Seems to be the same in all countries.

Bodes ill. for the future.

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#11

Re: Book Review: Unscientific America (Introduction)

10/06/2009 9:37 AM

Aaaah can the situation be saved? Our society in Africa and apparently in America as well is slipping into intellectual decay. Darn, in Africa it never got into a state of intelligentsia .... wrong we slipped out around the collapse of the Egyptian fall to the Romans or even before. My point is; do what it takes NOW or the culture you embrace will itself destroy that which is dear to us, the enquiring and inventive mind.

There is a notion I believe needs to be eradicated ie 'only the intelligentsia can develop new "families" of intelligentsia'. We need firstly to coach our young parents to teach their children to enquire and not just accept that it's complicated. That friends is IMHO where it starts. Yes the previous posts are right, the scientists and engineers neeeeeed to open themselves up to the schools. Your worst enemy I think will be the people who have an education of sorts.

Your allies will be the folk who have nothing to offer their kids. My call will be to start church type home groups where parents can be taught how to kick-start young minds into patterns of learning that will set the foundation for future generations of scientists and engineers. We have to get into a new way of educating our children that is no longer based on historic evidence alone, almost all school curricula are just that. Too many teachers pride themselves in their knowledge instead of focussing on the needs of the child to learn and methods to breach learning barriers a student experiences.

I have admitted it here before. A Japanese Professor once called my colleagues and I the the worst teachers he had ever met because of the drop-out and failure rate our faculty was experiencing. That hurt! But I took a good look in the mirror, enrolled in a post graduate course on Tertiary Education and changed my entire outlook on teaching. Essentially from teaching "the way I know how" to "the way the student needs to be taught" so that he/she succeeds in accomplishing excellent results.

At home we need to have parents that understand that the child can find the information they as parents don't have or know how to pass on and encourages the child from a very young age to explore for the info by every means available to them. The modern didactic in most societies I fear is way behind the technology we have at our disposal.

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#26
In reply to #11

Re: Book Review: Unscientific America (Introduction)

10/08/2009 3:32 PM

However, one of the first problems in the US with teaching is the idea of the precedence being placed on teachers educated in "the way the student needs to be taught" without any substantial knowledge in "the way I know how". Teachers who lack the know how, make far worse teachers than those who lack an understanding of each specific method to deal with every students personal learning issues. Even though many people say they never learned anything from some brilliant professors in college becasue they didn't know how to teach, we have all seen the other side where the teacher is very involved with all the students and helping them to elarn, but he himself doesn't understand the topics, so he limits the lines of inquiry available to students. Where education is important like east asia, they use people qualified in the subjects they are to teach. In the US we use people qualified in teaching and have them fill slots in whatever subjects are available or needed (except when they have special training in spanish or for developmentally challenged).

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#27
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Re: Book Review: Unscientific America (Introduction)

10/08/2009 3:45 PM

In the US we use people qualified in teaching and have them fill slots in whatever subjects are available or needed

I have had good teachers on occasion not all were qualified but each had a passion for the subject.

How do you grow passion or a conscience?

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#15

Re: Book Review: Unscientific America (Introduction)

10/06/2009 12:19 PM

Hello Moose, Chris, Et.al.

I paused long enough to read the responses thus far submitted. Then I smiled at the efforts to bring "engineering" into the discussion. Science and Engineering are subjects that are as alike as they are different, depending upon ones point of view and the specific fact being discussed/reviewed.

I do want to point to the self destructive issues of scientific fact. Ex; Pharmaceutical scientists do research and determine that they have discovered a new drug that will target a specific illness, and maybe that illness only. They create a testing scenario designed to support their claims and of course observe the testing subjects for adverse reactions to their new discovery. If unexpected adverse reactions occur then said scientists look for other medications that can be added on to this new discovery to off set the adverse reactions to the subject medication.

After some time, the F&D A, releases this new medication for public use. A bit later we see advertisements from Lawyers claiming to represent class action suits by persons injured by this wonderful new medication. Then we see advertisements that say that the forecast for improved health out weighs the risk of adverse reaction. "Tell that to the people that now live on a ventilator for the remainder of their lives."

"I take no side in this argument", for nothing ventured nothing gained. I simply point out that it was science that found this wonderful new medication, and it is additional science that uncovers facts that demonstrate the limitations of said discovery. The manufacturers of these drugs get rich and all to often those injured by said drugs cannot even afford to pay the Lawyer! I believe that the science of discovery needs the adversarial position of other scientists, to examine said discovery, to present opposing points of view, if any can be reasonably found, before making said new scientific available for public consumption or use.

TMF

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#18
In reply to #15

Re: Book Review: Unscientific America (Introduction)

10/06/2009 1:24 PM

In real science there are no points of view, there is only theory presented in a proof and attempts to experimentally disprove said theories. the real disservice is the mis-application of the word science to validate everything that may be questionable. Science is never meant to be undisputed, and is always meeant to be constantly tested. Arguments for the undisputed acceptance of psuedo-scientific theories is always a good way to identify very weak theories at least scientific theories, e.g. anthropogenic caused global warming and theory of evolution do not have the level of proof or lack of evidence disproving the existing theory that you might find for say quantum mechanical theories or relativity. Evolution is constantly being disproven in its current model and has to be constantly revised to account for inconsistent evidence being discovered. This is not to say they might not be reasonably consistent to some degree with the actual conditions, but it also doesn't make them sound scientific theories, just reasonable account and supposition based on observations. supposition fails us many times, and it is frequently called science, when it fails much like you identified with medications, the general public blames science, and it was never actually truly science, just a discovery made using some scientific principles and methodologies. A true understanding of what constitutes science and what is a attempt to validate something against questioning by using the aword science is our weakness.

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#34
In reply to #15

Re: Book Review: Unscientific America (Introduction)

10/18/2009 4:53 PM

Hi TMF and others,

Pharmaceutical scientists discover..., agreed.

Testing scenario: development and first tests (non human) will cost 1 to 5 million $.

Fist in human test (non-toxicity) will cost 40K$/patient so very likely minimum 1 M$.

Second in human test (wanted effect existing), more patients, 15M$ needed.

Third test: side effects and variation in wanted effects (every patient reacts in a different way) will need 200M$.

At any of these stages around 90% of new medications are failing.

Only after third test passed then production is allowed and "ordinary" can get the stuff. And company can go to profitable selling.

And: approval in one country is not sufficient for others, may need many more years and much more money.

This is true for head-ache medication and life saving medication for cancer-patients.

Then more side effects will be known (not too fast) and the lawyers enter the scene.

But sometimes the doctors prescribe more than allowed (a recent story) and the company bears the problems.

As a student (ME) I worked with my father who invented the until now recognised "NOVODIGAL" for treating some heart insufficiencies, made by chemical modification of one of the poisons of digitalis (foxglove).

Now I am searching for venture capital for two ultra-promising developments - both have shown to be not poisonous and to be working (1 patient only and not FDA approved) against some types of cancers.

So the next step will need a FDA approved trial plus 2M$. The big pharmaceutical companies are not willing to take this risk: the economic crisis has hit. And the NIH-syndrome is working too. (NIH = not invented here).

As a result I would recommend to tighten the necessities of testing so much that no more new drugs are allowed.

That will kill a lot of patients (as today because of too late approvals in drugs for life-threatening illnesses), this will also kill the pharmaceutical companies, then we go back to medieval times - no science required but illness as a punishment for not being religious.

We are near this, maybe we can come nearer.

Any state is joining this nonsense. So no circumvention possible.

If somebody is finally ill there is no time to wait and side-effects will be easily accepted by patients - but neither doctors nor patients are allowed to.

RHABE

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#41
In reply to #34

Re: Book Review: Unscientific America (Introduction)

10/21/2010 7:12 PM

Well the mortality rate though should not increase as all the drugs already exist. So I guess we would not increase the average life expectancy, and we might even limit potentially severe mutations propigating through the species. Not sure if it is actually a good idea for society in general (obviously a good idea for drug manufacturers) to spend huge amounts of resources to have drugs to treat congenital defects that could be passed along, such as "heart insufficiencies". Wouldn't this be working in an attempt to violate the evolutionary "theory", and allow debilitating mortal genetic mutations to continue and propigate through the species, until we hit some major sstressor and it forces the failure of the defect in our species?

Also isn't foxglove a plant and digitalis is one of the toxic chemicals derived from that plant species, amongst others?

I am not sure that the protections afforded by good solid scientific methods applied to R&D are really the problem, but maybe it lies in the way money and control of the intellectual properties are licensed.

Also a trial on 1 patient seems a bit insubstantiated for the general public when it comes to manufactured drugs. What would ahppen when 5 years down the road a few hundred people file a class action suit for the drugs causing some other chronic ailment, and discover you can not afford to pay them the awards. On the other hand if you reclassified it as a natural derivative of foxglove and other natural herbs and modified the chemistry somewhat to utilize plant based extracts, you could have it fall under a classification as maybe food or something like a vitamin. The public doesn't fear vitamins, extract all the chemicals used directly and only from plants, animals and rocks directly, rather than buying it from a petrochemical company, and call it organic.

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#42
In reply to #41

Re: Book Review: Unscientific America (Introduction)

10/22/2010 4:19 AM

Read the laws,

no doc nor pharmacist is allowed to pass to you any non-approved medicine.

Any stuff that is going into your body is declared as a medicine unless it is really a nutrient.

Docs and else will loose their approval if not acting according to the laws and get some punishment.

Worst is that finally ill patients are not allowed to take existing medicines that are in the progress of approval. Only those persons that are in the "trial" will get the stuff.

I deeply tried to get around - no chance - only if you can make the stuff yourself (not too likely) and treat yourself. Everything else will bring you to jail.

RHABE

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#43
In reply to #42

Re: Book Review: Unscientific America (Introduction)

10/22/2010 11:25 AM

vitamins don't have to be prescibe nor do over the counter medications. There are loopholes for a number of plant and animal derived compounds that aren't nutrients. You can sell anything as long as it meets FDA criteria such that it is not classified a drug, and isn't knowing toxic. You don't have to go to a pharmacist or Doctor for a prescription to get things like eastern "medicines", i.e. rhino horn, vitamins, many sleeping pills, caffeine tablet, et. al.. The trick is really the relationship to chemical purity and the use of chemistry versus, less-scientific practices. find a way to change the chemistry using direct simple plant extracts and it may not be a classified drug anymore. Doctors will direct people to eat certain foods and beverages or not to, if they believe they would be helpful. Of course you would lose some of the protections on your product, but could do like Coca cola and keep the recipe as a trade secret.

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#44
In reply to #43

Re: Book Review: Unscientific America (Introduction)

10/22/2010 1:03 PM

You are right but these are not new medications.

Or may be banned rapidly if working as those.

I had in mind the situation with Gallium-Maltolate (you will find the story by its inventor Bernstein). Gallium is approved as citrate-stabilised nitrate to be used against cancer. But this is useless as toxicity is much too high in ionic formulations.

Bernstein found an organic Gallium-compound that is much better tolerated. This is a reaction duct of a food-ingredient and Gallium.

But this needs approval by FDA or related authorities. And this will cost 200M$ or so.

And as the patents will expire soon there will not be a trial (?) nor an approval. So anybody who wants to test this as a last chance - if finally ill with cancer- has no access. No doctor is allowed to help him test this.

This restriction: "also life saving medications need full testing" is killing a lot of people, is restricting access to may be good medications that do not have the financial support to get through the tests, is killing many patients last hope.

Similar but on a different level of science is to be seen at immvarx.com.

Only these - and there are lots of these - I had in mind.

RHABE

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#45
In reply to #44

Re: Book Review: Unscientific America (Introduction)

10/22/2010 1:58 PM

Of course, requiring testing limits the number of snake oil salesmen, or relelgates them to seek other avenues to market their products through. You could just as easily utilize one of those other avenues, if conformance is too costly. You would just have to be creative in the way you develop the process and marketing. Also, the requirements for product quality aren't killing people, these people would die under normal circumstance anyways, it is just limiting their access to potentially beneficial drugs, but then also limitting peoples access to many more potentially harmful concoctions. The balance that must be struck lies between the potential value of the benefits against the potential cost of the harm. Cure one 75 year old guys cancer he may not care what the side effects are, but if those side effects cause 1 baby to be born with a severe and debilitating mutation just to save one very old person then the costs in the public arena may not be worth the benefit. Of course this cost benefits analysis also depends on the average age of the public who have influence and their connection to children, so the balance moves as the sociaty make up changes. DDT was a excellent example of this, a hugely beneficial pesticide in its day, but a few eagles were deemed far more valuable than all the benefits (except in areas prone to malaria). Testing protocols are there to limit distribution of the harmful products, and even then public still finds that it is insufficient when ever any side effect previously unidentified becomes apparent after approval and distribution on the markets (even if the side effect is limited to a very few people).

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#46
In reply to #45

Re: Book Review: Unscientific America (Introduction)

10/22/2010 4:05 PM

Totally agreed.

But let the (finally) ill people decide themselves what to take or not!

And let their docs report.

RHABE

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#47
In reply to #46

Re: Book Review: Unscientific America (Introduction)

10/22/2010 4:46 PM

And that is where the term snake oil salesman comes from in the 1800's.

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#16

Re: Book Review: Unscientific America (Introduction)

10/06/2009 12:51 PM

Go find a quiet and secluded spot this weekend and re-read Isaac Asimov's Foundation trilogy. His answers to the problem are still timely.

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#17

Re: Book Review: Unscientific America (Introduction)

10/06/2009 1:22 PM

Many thanks for your comments, all. If you'd like to read the next installment in this multi-part review, please click here.

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#20

Re: Book Review: Unscientific America (Introduction)

10/06/2009 5:33 PM

In reference to your internet comments, I couldn't agree more. In fact I picked up a little snipet out of one of the "Internet for Dummies" books. I think you'll love it: " The two symbols that represent the word ' internet ' in Chinese are Chaos and Opportunity.

JJM

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#24

Re: Book Review: Unscientific America (Introduction)

10/08/2009 5:55 AM

You asked for a good book. The one that, for me, clarifies issues about mistakes in thinking best is Gilovich's "How We Know What Isn't So." It goes beyond pointing out the fallacies to explain why making them is understandable and seems to lead to Pogo's conclusion, "we have met the enemy and them is us". JH Waters Curious Neuropsychologist

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#25
In reply to #24

Re: Book Review: Unscientific America (Introduction)

10/08/2009 1:17 PM

"How We Know What Isn't So." This review could be practically applied to determining merit of the thread topic.

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