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Large Hadron Collider reboots, makes first protonic bang!

Posted November 24, 2009 12:03 PM

From Engadget:

Yes, ladies and gentlemen, that most epic triumph of human engineering and physics research has finally taken place, and strangely enough our planet's still in one piece too. The search for the Higgs boson particle resumed yesterday, somewhere under the Franco-Swiss border, with the CERN research team successfully executing what the LHC was built to do -- accelerating proton beams to nearly the speed of light, then filming the wreckage as they crash into each other. Having encountered a number of bumps in the road, the researchers have had to significantly scale down the energy at which their early collisions will take place, with the very first ones said to have happened at 900 billion electron volts. Still, plans are afoot for an imminent shift up to 1.2 trillion electron volts (TeV), which would be the highest energy level any particle accelerator has achieved yet, before a ramp up to 7 TeV over the coming year if all goes well.

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#1

Re: Large Hadron Collider reboots, makes first protonic bang!

11/24/2009 12:51 PM

It's nice to see all those smart folks celebrating. Now I wonder if they'll actually start on a project that's worthwhile.

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#2
In reply to #1

Re: Large Hadron Collider reboots, makes first protonic bang!

11/24/2009 2:59 PM

Yes, what could we possibly have to gain by investigating the fundamental forces, fields, and associated particles that make up everything in the universe? What has science ever done for us?

I will now slam my head repeatedly against my desk for an hour to meet you halfway.

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#4
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Re: Large Hadron Collider reboots, makes first protonic bang!

11/24/2009 3:56 PM

Yeah, I guess you're right science is great, it's just too bad those people don't put those big fundamental universe lovin' brains behind something that's going on right now that they can affect. Like for example the global economy, the lack of food as the world's population grows by the hour, the education system, straightening out the US government (nevermind, Barry's got that under control), you get the idea. Well if the Big Banger takes precedent over any one of those things, then I may as well just give up on everything, because I thought that people came first, not science. By the way, all over the country right now there are kids sitting outside of a courtrooms and judges and social workers are trying to find a place for them to sleep tonight. You just keep slamming that head, it'll justify eveything you said.

Sorry, tried to post this off-topic but you can't change that in edit.

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#5
In reply to #4

Re: Large Hadron Collider reboots, makes first protonic bang!

11/24/2009 4:21 PM

Oh I see, you're saying that fundamental research never improves quality of life. Of course, I mean, what good could practically unlimited energy do us? Or the ability to manipulate materials at a subatomic level? What use is the laser? Or the transistor? Or Electricity? Or the Internal Combustion Engine? Perhaps you believe these technologies were bequeathed to us 6000 years ago rather than the evolved adaptations manifested by humankind's improved understanding of the world?

That giant gap you see, between helping people and fundamental scientific research, is the vacuum created by your lack of imagination and understanding.

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#10
In reply to #4

Re: Large Hadron Collider reboots, makes first protonic bang!

11/24/2009 8:38 PM

Everyone knows why the economy tanked - unrestrained greed and stupidity. The world has the capacity to feed every person on the planet - but chooses not to. We know what's required to reform our political process, but we lack the discipline to do it. And there are plenty of examples of top notch educations systems, if we really cared.

So excuse me, Mr. People Person, if I think spending money to ask some questions we don't have the answers too is a good idea.

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#13
In reply to #4

Re: Large Hadron Collider reboots, makes first protonic bang!

11/24/2009 11:04 PM

All the problems you sited are real, and are important.

But what can a PhD in nuclear physics do about them?

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#16
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Re: Large Hadron Collider reboots, makes first protonic bang!

11/25/2009 6:53 AM

Research and development projects is how we got from naked savages to where we are now with our civilized amenities. Unfortunately, we still have some fully clothed savages amongst us. And it started with banging rocks together. Now we're banging atomic nuclei together.

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#27
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Re: Large Hadron Collider reboots, makes first protonic bang!

11/26/2009 12:42 AM

Anyone up for a game of Proton-Paper-Scissors?

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#7
In reply to #1

Re: Large Hadron Collider reboots, makes first protonic bang!

11/24/2009 5:46 PM

It's nice to see all those smart folks celebrating. Now I wonder if they'll actually start on a project that's worthwhile.

I sure the same was said about the Wright Brothers first flight, (though they funded their own research, not like Langley)

The discoveries made are more advance that a novice could possible understand.

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#11
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Re: Large Hadron Collider reboots, makes first protonic bang!

11/24/2009 10:56 PM

It's a bit hard to respond. If you don't already understand why it's important, it probably can't be explained.

What would you suggest is a "worthwhile" project.

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#3

Re: Large Hadron Collider reboots, makes first protonic bang!

11/24/2009 3:03 PM

Pretty exciting! I'm looking forward to my floating car when they can find this elusive Higgs Boson and start to figure out how to manipulate it (without causing atoms to fall apart or fly apart, etc. etc.).

What an exciting time in physics. All these observations in space we can't explain (dark energy, dark matter), all these particle theories we might finally actually test (I see you string theory).

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#6
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Re: Large Hadron Collider reboots, makes first protonic bang!

11/24/2009 4:33 PM

I'm with you, Roger. I say everyone hide their baguettes (mine are in the bathtub) and let's forge ahead.

I see this as a much more rationale use of funds, than, say, oh, I dunno, wasteful militaristic maneuvers initiated by previous [insert long string of adjectives here but I would rather not get into politics] administration. Perhaps barring these and other fabulous financial policies now foundering from former head of state, these children that one is so concerned about would have homes, REAL educations, and a bathtub in every garage.

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#8
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Re: Large Hadron Collider reboots, makes first protonic bang!

11/24/2009 5:51 PM

Pretty exciting! I'm looking forward to my floating car when they can find this elusive Higgs Boson and start to figure out how to manipulate it (without causing atoms to fall apart or fly apart, etc. etc.).

I would think it would be cool if next week Fermilabs discoverd it first.

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#12
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Re: Large Hadron Collider reboots, makes first protonic bang!

11/24/2009 11:01 PM

Yes! The floating cars are definitely overdue! I've been working on that for years but alas I don't have a Large Hadron Collider.

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#26
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Re: Large Hadron Collider reboots, makes first protonic bang!

11/26/2009 12:33 AM

The Higgs Bentley: It not only floats, but is completely inertia-less (imagine: femtosecond U-turns at full throttle!) and, now that we've dispensed with mass, able to travel the speed of light simply by pointing a flashlight out the rear window*.

Order now while supplies last.

* Nighttime only. Full sunlight tends to blow the vehicle off the planet.

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#9

Re: Large Hadron Collider reboots, makes first protonic bang!

11/24/2009 5:58 PM

So far they haven't exceeded the power of Fermilab. So the big whoosh is still to come.

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#23
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Re: Large Hadron Collider reboots, makes first protonic bang!

11/25/2009 2:58 PM

Oops shouldn't have used use think of using the phrase "still to come.." in an enterprise whose success or failure could be influenced from the future (http://arxiv.org/abs/0707.1919). Fortunately this can be tested with the draw of a card...

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#14

Re: Large Hadron Collider reboots, makes first protonic bang!

11/25/2009 4:46 AM

If you want to escape from the Stone Age, you start by banging rocks together - and so on...............

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#15

Re: Large Hadron Collider reboots, makes first protonic bang!

11/25/2009 5:29 AM

Children children, stop squabbling.
Let's simplify it...
Would you rather give a Trillion dollars to a bunch of bankers who physically create nothing. Or some researchers who build a big thingy which employs construction workers, scientists etc and may eventually lead to great things?

Hmmm, my vote is with the researchers.
Alternatively the money may go for fighting wars on foreign soil...the bottom line is, no politician is going to give it to those most in need...it just works like that...don't ask me why tho'
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#17

Re: Large Hadron Collider reboots, makes first protonic bang!

11/25/2009 7:56 AM

Sadly, there is no way that I can convince anyone on this forum that there are problems that need to be addressed right now that are more important. If you hadn't eaten in a week you may see things differently, but maybe not. Here's a hint for you, pants first, then shoes.

Anyway, I am done here. I am logging out and will not be back, so you all can be happy that the crazy guy that believes evolution is a lie, and that people are actually worth something because they were created and didn't just evolve from whatever it is that some scientist tells you. And that's what you're going on, what somebody else did research on, you didn't do it yourself. Anyway you can be happy I'm gone.

It seems that you are all smart people, but is that really what it's all about?....

Goodbye

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#18
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Re: Large Hadron Collider reboots, makes first protonic bang!

11/25/2009 9:18 AM

there is no way that I can convince anyone on this forum that there are problems that need to be addressed right now that are more important.

No no no, I'm already convinced, it's just that I don't hold the purse strings...
Here in the UK most people didn't want to invade Iraq... but hey that's democracy, you elect a glory seeking, brown nosing, closet catholic and that's what happens.
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#22
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Re: Large Hadron Collider reboots, makes first protonic bang!

11/25/2009 12:59 PM

There are massive problems in this world that need addressing right now, and can be done as we have the resources to do so. Unfortunately there are no real answers, and as long as we have a single individual that is willing to sacrifice his/her own people for greed, religion or ideology we will always have the four horsemen of the apocalypse breathing down our neck's.

If you have any suggestions on solving this, I would be very interested.

As for using the term closet Catholic, shows me that religion is definitely part of the problem. I am not anti religion, but I am anti use of religion as excuse for what ever the agenda is.

Further more, we do need to do research, invention and innovation. We would not be online with out. Even the most common items that we in the western world take for granted and unfortunately a lot of the world does not enjoy, came out of some ones mind or by research. London at one time was a cess pool of water borne diseases until the simple concept of toilets and sewers invented by the Romans was installed.

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#24
In reply to #17

Re: Large Hadron Collider reboots, makes first protonic bang!

11/25/2009 6:25 PM

I think the real tragedy is that this country has cut science funding for three decades now. You make it a choice between science and the hungry, but science represents a tiny percent of the US federal budget, so really, it's not an honest comparison. Certainly a small reduction in defense spending could produce much more money to help those poor unfortunates.

As for your melodramatic exit, I make the occasional melodramatic exit from a post myself. Sometimes you just need to quit the post (if you feel your getting ganged up on), not the site.

After all, even if I disagree with some of your positions, this is CR4, you belong here as much as anyone. I'm certain you know things that will prove helpful in some discussions here, it would be a shame to lose that.

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#25
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Re: Large Hadron Collider reboots, makes first protonic bang!

11/25/2009 7:34 PM

As I understand that this is an open forum as long as it stays with in the realms of civility. Free speech is the cornerstone of Democracy. This also means that one can either not listen to what you have to say, or you can reply.

Here is another hint:

There is a Global, Geo-Political, ethnic, social, idealogical, tribal, cultural, etc. reality out there. I do not like the world the way it is either, and most people don't. Unfortunately ther are enough people in the right places who do like it the the way it is.

Do feel free to offer any practical solution's to solve the global problems.

Your real problem is not, with those can affect change, but with those who will not allow it.

I recommend that if you are that concerned, go and have a nice chat with Robert Mugabe of Zimbabwe. Or any other dictator for that mater. There is no shortage of them.

Let me know how that goes; if you live.

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#19

Re: Large Hadron Collider reboots, makes first protonic bang!

11/25/2009 9:32 AM

although the benefits of particle physics are rarely obvious as the experiments begin, virtually all pure science eventually leads to engineering that results in fundamental changes in the way we live. I don't put a value judgment on flight, for example. I don't fly and I don't see how flight has been an unalloyed improvement in human life. it's not really comparable, anyway, since kites and gliders were probably in use back to the dawn of time. It's hardly a modern innovation. However, if you are suspected of having cancer, a pet or cat scan will reveal the position and size of the tumor--both came from particle physics. When it comes time to treat the tumor, very fine particle beams will be focused upon it--another innovation. If you want to prevent cancern, you can avoid flying in airplanes--cosmic radiation having been discovered by particle physicists. I could go on all day presenting apologia for particle physics, but the fact is that every dollar spent on it in the past has been well spent and so to some extent you must have faith that future expenditures will also pay off. If they don't pay off in very fundamental ways, we can hesitate to move on to quadrillion electron volt colliders, but at this point it is too soon to drag our heels. And finally, the problems of feeding the world are related to issues like rain, locusts, political issues, genocides, transportation, and generosity. These are not issues physicists should be concerned with--they all have solutions we can unleash high-school-educated internes on. You can transport people to where the food is pentiful or water to where the earth is parched, we can teach people to capture and eat locusts, we can educate people to turn their backs on dictators and assist them in rebelling against them, we can prevent or stop genocides through direct military action, we can send trucks and drivers anywhere in the world, and we can train people in lands of plenty that they are actually working in their own best interest when they write a check to get surplus grains to starving people. None of these actions require more than an 8th grade education. If you want to tear physicists away from their tevatrons and tokamacs and have them drive trucks or carry a gun, you might as well get scuptors, authors, physicians, and the lke to do the same. This was tried in Pol Pot's Cambodia and it resulted in the killing fields, massive starvation, and loss of a couple of generations of some of the best brains on earth. Let the physicists do what they do best. The links between investment in pure science and the greatest good for the greatest number are subtle and difficult to follow and are far beyond the understanding of even the greatest thinkers, particularly ahead of the actual advance. gabbbbyhayes@earthlink.net

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#20

Re: Large Hadron Collider reboots, makes first protonic bang!

11/25/2009 9:53 AM

Hey, Y'all! Looks like we scared off a guest poster. Hate to see somebody leave in a huff like that. Somebody probably ought to rap me across the knuckles for being naughty, but that reminds me of a T-shirt I saw once that said, "Another Liberal Arts Grad- You want fries with that?"

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#21

Re: Large Hadron Collider reboots, makes first protonic bang!

11/25/2009 12:20 PM

I'd like to know where they get all the large hadrons. I always thought they were kinda small...

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