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Straight to the Next Collider?

Posted August 11, 2010 7:50 AM

It's the largest motion control system ever built. But after just barely making first use of it to collide protons in 17-mile long tunnels in Switzerland, CERN scientists are asking for a bigger, straighter accelerator. Should the 31-mile, $12 billion project get the green light already — especially after the Large Hadron Collider experienced so much trouble getting into productive operation?

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English Rose
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#1

Re: Straight to the Next Collider?

08/12/2010 4:54 AM

I heard an interview with the lead scientist on this bid. The reason they are starting the funding bid now is that the expect to build this replacement collider in about 25 years time.

In 25 years time, they expect the LHC to be at or near the end of its useful life and the need for a replacement, with greater power capabilities and other enhancements (sorry, I wasn't taking notes) to be urgent.

I believe they are expecting to take up to 5 years to secure promises on all the funding, another 10 years to design the beastie and then the remaining 10 years to validate all the components and bolt / solder them all together.

As this eloquent, intelligent and well informed gentleman pointed out, it would have been a miracle if the LHC had had no teething problems at all, given that much of it is cutting edge work at the boundaries of our knowledge. All the systems had been tested and validated beforehand; an unforeseen combination caused an unusual failure.

The $12M won't be sought up front - rather commitments and a drawdown schedule.

So yes, it is right that this is being done now. Forward thinking and succession planning. just what industry needs....

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Randall
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#2
In reply to #1

Re: Straight to the Next Collider?

08/12/2010 6:32 AM

It's 12 billion not 12 million, but, good answer anyway.

At the moment CERN straddles the border of France and Switzerland: I wonder if in a couple of hundred years it will be France, Switzerland and Germany.

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Holzfeller
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#3
In reply to #2

Re: Straight to the Next Collider?

08/12/2010 6:40 AM

More likely China.
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English Rose
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#4
In reply to #2

Re: Straight to the Next Collider?

08/12/2010 8:49 AM

BBBBBBBBB

MMMMMMM

OK, I think I've got the difference now....blinking powers of 10. Imagine what my binary is like! Or is that by minary....

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passingtongreen
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#6
In reply to #4

Re: Straight to the Next Collider?

08/13/2010 8:22 PM

It's an American Billion, not an English Billion.

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stevem
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#5
In reply to #1

Re: Straight to the Next Collider?

08/12/2010 2:46 PM

In fact of the over 7000 electrical junctions only a single one failed. Not too bad considering this is pushing the state of the art to its very limit.

http://arstechnica.com/science/news/2010/08/following-protons-on-a-trip-to-and-through-the-lhc.ars

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one2playwitt
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#7

Re: Straight to the Next Collider?

08/14/2010 2:30 AM

Yes ... because the LHC was found to have the Higgups (hiccups?). 12.85 billion ... don't forget about the other 850 million.

That is only 2 dollars from every person on earth!
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34point5
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#8
In reply to #7

Re: Straight to the Next Hardon Collider?

08/14/2010 5:16 AM

"2 dollars from every person on earth!" - what a silly concept

This is about PHYSICS! - damn it!!!

It's about "understanding the way the world/universe works!!!!!!!

And see It has:

The 'circle racers' have now "discovered" that "oval racers" can go faster in the straight bit - without that annoying spin force persisting!!!!

We are amazed as THIS PHYSICS is all way too clever for Issac level stuff to apply

no one mention "drag racing" -ok?

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one2playwitt
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#9
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Re: Straight to the Next Hardon Collider?

08/14/2010 7:55 PM

'One response is that the value of basic research in "pure science" such as high-energy physics lies in the determination to understand and explore, and in the challenge of using our highest human capacities to learn the truth about the nature of nature, for its own sake. A good case can be made that research in pure science is one mark of a high level of civilization.' Quoted from Fermilab.

It could easily read as ... while overlooking the starving and those dieing of treatable disease, is a mark of a high level of civilization.

Don't get me wrong, I know of the benefits to medicine and energy conservation. But what has come out in the last 15 years besides understanding?

I work in the medical field and routinely see people without insurance, denied the use of PET and CAT scans. This is a fact, as I have seen it happen time and time again. So yes the benefits are there, but at what cost?

I'd just rather that kind of funding have a different focus for now ... and let's visit the idea of a larger collider when we have solved a few more pressing issues.
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StandardsGuy
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#10

Re: Straight to the Next Collider?

08/18/2010 9:43 PM

What, the GOD particle can't make the curve?

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Judge
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#11
In reply to #10

Re: Straight to the Next Collider?

09/18/2010 10:43 PM

"Quote

The poor shall be with you always."

King James Version

Joe in Texas

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one2playwitt
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#12
In reply to #11

Re: Straight to the Next Collider?

09/18/2010 11:11 PM

He failed to mention why ...

It should have read like this ...

Because pure science is the mark of a highly civilized culture ... the poor will be with you always.
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34point5 (1); English Rose (2); Holzfeller (1); Judge (1); one2playwitt (3); passingtongreen (1); Randall (1); StandardsGuy (1); stevem (1)

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