Busting Energy Myths

None of the Truths/Myths discussed is particularly surprising, but I wish more emphasis was placed on this one:

TRUTH: Subsidizing renewable energy generation
doesn't lower the cost of alternative energy; we
simply pay the cost in other ways-and at the expense
of cost-effective market-based policies.

We need to stop subsidizing corn-based ethanol; it's not cost-effective as a fuel supply and worse it drives up the price of food.

We need to stop Subsidizing... Period.

Let the markets decide what things work and what things don't, and what the true value of things are. Remove the subsidies, and the people will once again have a say in what happens around here.

I totally agree. Lets include the military support for OIL!!!! Just stop it. I am in the USA. We are KILLING people all over the world and they heat US for it. At the same time we are killing our selves by not educating our young or taking care of the old while squeezing the middle. Did you know it costs > $400/gal for fuel at the front line in Afghanistan? STUPID.

This has to be the most trite talking point from the left. Open your eyes and see the big picture.

"Did you know it costs > $400/gal for fuel at the front line in Afghanistan?"

For a more complete explanation of the four year old information, please review this.

YES. I guess the whole point of my post above is the subsidized or "fully burdened cost of fuel" we are paying for is really outrageous. If we paid the true cost at the pump "alternative" are VERY competitive.

Maybe it would be great to stop subsidizing everything (I have my doubts), but as last week's debt ceiling fiasco shows that is not in the cards. One faction of one of our political parties was willing to push us into default rather than cut the direct subsidies to their friends in the fossil fuel biz. Yes I'm talking about the Tea Party. The fear, anger and frustration that provided the energy for this movement is genuine, but the funding that turned this movement into a political power comes from the coal and oil industry. Ethanol subsidies may be put on the table at some time in the near future. Any idea of how that will play out politically?

So if we can't end the subsidies to fossil fuel then we will still have a rigged market, and alternatives will still be a poor option. It is also important to understand not all dollars are equal. A dollar spent here to fund research and production of alternative energy gets spent over and over in our economy for groceries, clothes, housing, entertainment, etc. This is the multiplier effect and it increases the value of that dollar, providing a boost to our economy. A dollar spent overseas is worth one dollar at most. If part of that dollar comes back at us in to form of a terrorist bomb, it may cost us another dollar or two to clean up the mess. Multiply that by ~$600B each year and you can see the kind of trouble our continuing oil addiction is getting us into. IMHO moving toward energy independence is critical to our national security. That is a proper function of government, not private industry.

That is what I love about CR4. MOST of the people seem to have there eyes OPEN!

"We need to stop subsidizing corn-based ethanol; it's not cost-effective as a fuel supply and worse it drives up the price of food."

I said the same thing regarding food price a few days ago and the guy called me a moron. Well, he said I sound like a moron (which is pretty much the same thing).

It may be that plant stocks for ethanol fuel production differ from those for food; and thus they might not compete directly for food dollars. However, there would at least be indirect competion for land, which would indirectly affect food prices. "The guy" should have thought twice before implying that anyone else was a moron.

I didn't call you a moron

I will if you want me to, but I'll expect a rebate on my next order from the LynDoor™ catalogue [which is late by the way]

the energy balance of ethanol is getting better

http://www.wired.com/autopia/2011/06/five-ethanol-myths-busted-2/

we subsidize air travel, through the funding of airports

individual cars, highways

oil & other resources extracted from public lands pay reduced royalties

we as a nation are going to pick winners & losers, based on the tax & regulatory structure

it would be nice if all the participants in the recent bit of political theater would remember

it's the economy stupid

huge symbolic gestures about the size of government are pointless

make the programs run as efficiently as possible & the big picture will take care of itself

debt isn't the enemy, stupidity is

kicking the can down the road & going on vacation for 5 weeks, doesn't indicate any intention to actually rectify the situation

debt isn't the enemy?

Well how about if we qualify that statement.

The last 3 wars (USA) were put on the national (USA) credit card. While shifting weapons development to the use of Commercial Off Shelf Technology. (COST) developed by private industry. Meanwhile we shifted Trillions of $$ to the already wealthy and military industrial complex in the form of national debt. All this while the privately held Federal Reserve Bank inflated the currency and then made the problem worse by pushing interest rates negative. Now we don't seem to have the money to care for the elderly or educate the young while we squeeze the middle and insist the the people who got increasingly rich on the loose money policies that got us into this economic mess not see any taxes.

Strange how we do have the money (credit!) to spend trillions on the military to support brutal dictators and war in countries that have natural resources we want or land across which we want clear access to gain access to those resources. (a pipeline across Afghanistan). O ya that is going on the credit card so no worries. We will just cut more programs that were investing in the people of the USA to pay the bills.

The people on capital hill are like a high school kids with a credit card and no clue. They have driven this country to the precipice of bankruptcy.

Very smart?

you've done a fine job

thanks

we could start on DOD, it's as good a place as any, if there was ever a department that could do a better job of sticking to it's defined mission [i'm pretty sure one of the D's in DOD is defense] it would be DOD

Homeland security is another one of those blank check ratholes...

Why do you call a moron a decider, for a starter? Is he educatable? If he is, why is he not yet knowledgeable? Are you yourself not the foggy one conflating the two?

For decades, smart, willing, enterprising individuals explored various lifestyles. I did study them, so can you. That way YOU can make a difference. Learn, try, DO. And leave the flapping the gums, to those who won't.

Who are you talking to?

He is talking to Doorman in post #3

The reason governments subsidize renewable energy is EXACTLY because the market has to make a profit before it does anything, and a situation like renewable energy has to be dealt with, but only the government (well, before lies became truth) has the capital to do things because they're right, even if they're not profitable. Examples: this here Internet, the Interstate Highway System, the military, etc. They're called public goods, and corporations have no morality. They only see profit.

You need to support Renewable energy upto a certain level, so that progressively its cost effective developement can be sustained. Yes US being biggest consumer and the world is looking for its growth, but US needs to tighten its belt.Most people refuse to cut down energy consumption. Majority of people are overweight with BMI much less than 20 leading to health problems. A 2inch lowering of waist measurement and 10% saving in energy consumption in terms of electricity and fuel in car would change the scene dramatically. Cars with less than 1600 cc are comfortable one and can run at the speeds as is being obtained with >2000cc cars/SUV's etc. Atleast 2nd car be at less than 1600 cc. It will dramatically change the world scenario. Buying most of the goods from one country for consumers is also not good and make the country more dependent and slowly making the country loose its independence. Can't the people see what is happening ? Or is the country looking for a war to better its economy!!

Well, I called the original question moronic. What is that talk about deciders to be educated by engineers? Can't you decide for yourself? Why do you assume, the deciders are educatable in the first place? Why, on gods green earth have to debase yourself that badly? Have you no self respect???

Get up, grow up!

Back in the days before double-speak took hold, it was called the Department of War (headed by Secretary of War).

Maybe we could have a Department of Offence, or DOO. Then, when fighting two wars at once, that would be deep ...-...

The issue of energy cost became highlighted only after(1970s)the OPEC increased the fuel prices. Now solar/wind/tidal/biomass/dendro/geothermal etc are used in addition to coal/gas and hydro for producing energy due to environmental issues. I don't understand why they didn't fix oil prices daily at London exchange like gold/copper etc? instead of leaving it to OPEC?.

Suppose "they" fix the oil price at US$10 per barrel, and OPEC declines to sell at that price. Do "they" just go in and take the oil at gunpoint?

Well that's what we used to do. Has not worked quite as well lately since the Chinese / rest of the pacific rim want it also.