Drinking and Driving Unsafe at any Level, Study Says

I'm am curious, if there is a certain tolerance within reason on one ability's.

The reason I ask this, I was never much of a drinking in my younger days, ....... 18-early 30's, never felt comfortable with the out of control feeling.

but from my earlier 30's, I would stop at the water hole at the racquet ball club after a match. And eventually consumed more, quite easily, being dehydrated didn't help much, also being dehydrated alcohol wasn't the best choice.

But now in my 50's, I don't drank as often, but when I do, I feel it after or even during my first one drink.

The study is correct. It is unsafe to drink any amount and then drive, because even if you are below the legal BAC limit if you happen to be pulled over, even for something else, you could be arrested and possibly convicted for DUI.

That's not what I am referring to. I realize that for example an 0.01% blood/alcohol is the same no matter on who.

the information or the point that I was making or trying to find out, do people have a higher tolerance on cognitive abilities with the same blood/alcohol as compared to another person.

That is the question, not whether what is legal or not.

Yes.

I get smarter when I'm drinking. The more I drink, the smarter I get.

I actually think there's something to that.

A long time ago when I was on the bar circuit, and shooting pool for money, about 3-4 drinks would put me in "the zone" and I could shoot great pool. Too much, and my game went to CR4ap.

I was also a safer driver, while having a slight buzz. Not drunk, but if I had a buzz, I would put my full attention into driving, keeping it to the speed limit, being aware of everything around me, etc. That wasn't the case when I was completely sober.

I think its how it metabolizes between individuals.

And the reason, I asked, is that, I know of people, same weight, build, but they handle the same amount of liquor differently.

I'm not going to say, it makes one a better driver,...... with that is said, it loses credibility........

I would like to know if there was a study about how each individual metabolizes alcohol, and the effects.

And compare it with the blood/alcohol content and cognitive abilities between individuals....... just curious about the realationship.

I'm pretty sure the results would be all over the map.

This isn't quite what you're looking for, but getting closer. There are a couple more links on the right of the page.

http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa041152

The reason I asked was from something I experienced in my youth. (No, it's not what you think)

Where I had grew up on a farm, it was next to a Polish settlement. They loved their Whiskey. Had their own community Still (during prohibition).

Anyways, when I was in my early 20's I would play cards with my friends at a cabin, where the old-timers would also play. We'd have 3 games of 5-6 handed Sheephead (or sometimes called Schafkopf)

Well one of the old-timers (in his 90's) loved his big fat cigars and Whiskey) Word has it, He'd have a fifth a day. Well he had his bottle, and was drinking beer. I was playing at the other table, thinking later that night I'd move to the heavy players table. Well when I did, that bottle was almost dead, yet, I didn't have a chance. This guy schooled me.

When I laid a card down, he'd school me (putting it lightly) and he would go back 2-3 rounds and tell me what everyone played, including myself. Then scold me for not playing it right. This guy was as sharp as a whip.

And when his bottle was empty, he went home.

Now, I wasn't drinking, because I had planned on cleaning up on the people that were. It didn't work out that way. And btw, when he went home, so did everyone else…… because he took everyone else to the cleaners also including yours truly.

Are you sure it was whiskey in his bottle?

If it was, it's pretty wild that his mind was so sharp.

I guess it doesn't matter much if you're in your 90s, but most people won't last long drinking a fifth a day. There may be cognitive differences between people under the influence of alcohol, but liver function doesn't vary much.

That is what threw me.

This guy was my friends grandfather. And as the story would go, and what my friend told me, he could drink, and you never know it. Of which I thought it was just bolstering B.S.

Until he would remember the hands played, not only in the game we were playing, but previous games. It was uncanny, the whiskey I don't believe was watered down.

When I mentioned this to my dad, he just laughed and asked "if I learned anything when I played with the Pollack's".....

This was a time where not only that's what they were called, but that's what they called themselves.

To this day, I don't believe it, that's why I asked about the tolerances or how different people metabolize alcohol.

There as one other thing about this.

Friend of mine flew Huey's in the service. He was stationed in Germany. Now he didn't frequent the larger towns much, seems the locals didn't have much respect for Americans.

But the smaller outlaying areas were different. The locals seemed to really enjoy watching Americans get drunk. They even thought it was quite easy, because Americans couldn't hold their liquor.

Interesting, but fast reactions in a precise direction are not needed for card games!

Unless you need to pull out a gun because you were caught cheating!!

That's true, and I like to add, this guy was in his 90's. His verbal skills were sharp, The only way to look at his reactions was that his shuffling was amazing also, (as far as dexterity)

Before the Breathalyzer was made law, in the UK at any rate, they tested thousands of people with set precise amounts of alcohol, then they measured the levels in the blood and reaction times etc..

I don't know how they averaged it out, but they did. That was the results for the 0.08 level of alcohol something. Germany had te same level until they reduced it a few years ago as they found that the 0.08 was too high, Kramat's level was 0.09 I believe he said!!

Was too much alcohol.....We now have 0.05 here....One beer puts some smaller Guys over the top or very close......

It hasn't changed anything for me, I still don't drink (anything at all) and drive.....I feel its the best way, but each to his own.......each must answer to his own convictions.....but many do not like being called.

A limit is a limit - period!!

How much longer are we going to flog this dead horse?

Figures from the US Government on this page:-

http://www.cdc.gov/motorvehiclesafety/impaired_driving/impaired-drv_factsheet.html

Show:-

How big is the problem?

• In 2010, 10,228 people were killed in alcohol-impaired driving crashes, accounting for nearly one-third (31%) of all traffic-related deaths in the United States.
• Of the 1,210 traffic deaths among children ages 0 to 14 years in 2010, 211 (17%) involved an alcohol-impaired driver.
• Of the 211 child passengers ages 14 and younger who died in alcohol-impaired driving crashes in 2010, over half (131) were riding in the vehicle with the alcohol-impaired driver.
• In 2010, over 1.4 million drivers were arrested for driving under the influence of alcohol or narcotics. That's one percent of the 112 million self-reported episodes of alcohol-impaired driving among U.S. adults each year.
• Drugs other than alcohol (e.g., marijuana and cocaine) are involved in about 18% of motor vehicle driver deaths. These other drugs are often used in combination with alcohol.

Isn't that enough info on the subject???? Who needs more? Not me!!! I believe it...

Europe is probably similar, though I did not bother to search for their figures, but someone else can look and report here if they wish on that subject!

For anyone interested, look here:-

http://ec.europa.eu/transport/road_safety/specialist/knowledge/alcohol/prevalence_amp_rate_of_alcohol_consumption/crashes_and_injuries.htm

Again, I asked a question as for as how different people metabolize it and the differences.

Not to get lectured on the law of the limits and statistics of DUI. (Driving Under the Influence) which it seems some members are hooked on.

I assumed that you understood that, just from my comments on how in the UK (Ministry of Transport) carried out tests in the early to middle '60s.......obviously not!!!

They took average people and got results which were averaged.....simple!!!

It would be as good as impossible, even today, to take into account all the needed variables to have a "better" method.

You would need to include at least the following:-

Weight and weight changes - daily

Hormonal levels - daily

Food recently eaten and type - hourly

Any illnesses, even a common cold or the flu changes the way the body reacts - hour by hour

Sex - as often as possible!

Age

Medicine being taken - hourly

Alcohol consumed over the last week or so!!

All to let some people drive with 0.001 % of alcohol more or less, don't you think that is a bit extreme???

Isn't it better to take a reasonably safe average level and apply it to all?

I not talking about the averages. I'm not talking about driving intoxicated. What I m talking about is the range between people with the same Alcohol intake and the response and cognitive abilities.

But I believe I mentioned earlier about taking the variables in account for individuals, but I did not mention in detail., of weight, height, BMI sex so and so forth.

I did not think getting the point across would be so difficult.

Bingo!!!

http://www.academicwino.com/2011/06/does-alcohol-consumption-really-improve-2.html/

Good link, thanks.

I read it, it speaks of mostly of cognitive function, the age was average 70 years and in my limited experience, 70 year olds are "on average" still in a "good working order".....

Me being 67 for example and of higher than average (100) intelligence..... Last tested about 3 years ago as being 127 points, still a lower average than I had at 17 which was 138.

I guess if you start with 100 (average IQ) as a teenager, by the time you are 70, so is your IQ!!!

OH DEAR!!!

Nor did I!!

You are asking for the impossible.......simply too many variables to achieve your thoughts between even two similar people!!

Understood?

maybe!, but that why I asked. And that the one of first best response that is related to my question. with kram the other.

Hey Pheonix911,

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I knew what you were referring to, I was just kidding around but reminding everyone of something important at the same time....

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I do have something pertaining to your line of the discussion. A couple decades back, I lived in Denver. At the time, one of the obsessions that competed for my free time was chess, specifically speed chess. I had lucked into loosing badly to a guy who turned out to legitimately be an International Master. He an a friend of his (merely an FIDE Master) got me hooked on timed games, speed games, and blitz. Anyway, the way you get good in chess, is to learns from being beaten by someone better than you. I got pretty good (not compared the the IM or Master, but to 99.5% of everyone else) and started playing games for money on the public boards in the downtown pedestrian strip (I think it was called 16th st mall...not that it was a 'mall' at all).

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I'd play 5 dollar - 5 minute games. I quickly learned that, for me, I couldn't have even one beer. There were some great microbreweries down there, so I had to segregate my time....once I had a beer, from the boards I'd have to stay clear.

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That seemed to be the case for most people.....which is what I suspect the major cause of my Friday and Saturday night success patterns. I usually did well oon the boards, but I would clean house on those nights. People get cocky with a little beer, and don't realize how much their skills are impaired......

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...but that is only true for most people. Being public boards, in a big city, I became familiar with some of the homeless people who played chess. Here is the part that dumbfounded me....and for quite a while I thought I was being put on...that it was an elaborate ruse. There was more than one person who could play very decent chess while consuming hard liquor at a scary pace. What's more, at least one of those people had no ability to play chess when they could not get liquor.

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I remarked about it to a friend who is a physician, and she said it actually isn't that rare for people who drink heavily and regularly to develop that kind of response, here they can do things when they are heavily drinking that would require concentration for a sober person, but are just as incapacitated when sober as a normal person it drunk.

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I wonder if anyone has ever received a DUI for impaired driving as a result of driving while drying out?

That's an interesting twist.

Tolerance may not be the best word,........ maybe how the alcohol is metabolized between individuals.

The study was not conducted properly.

In my younger days, I used to drink pretty heavily and drive every day. Now that I'm older, I drink less, and never drive after drinking...which is because of the police state.

The point is, that it's about being "in practice", or "out of practice". A person that drinks and drives daily and takes a test, will drive better than a person that doesn't drink much, when both are served the same amount of alcohol in a study.

None of these studies ever take into account individual abilities....They seem to just assume everybody of every age and condition and experience are all the same as a baseline, when we all know that comparing drivers abilities stone cold sober would yield a bell curve graph of driving ability, reaction time, skill, not to mention vehicle type and condition.....These studies are useless, nothing more than fluff articles to fill the pages of scientific journals.....

I wonder how many people who hadn't recently drunk at all would register over 0.01% from instrument error. If the standard were to be made that low, how many innocent persons would be affected?

In many countries, usually ex- commie bloc ones,the limit is 0.0%......

Does that answer your question?

Furthermore in Germany, ever since the drink/driving laws were first written, has a fault clause that gives the driver with (slightest amount of) alcohol the "fault" if it cannot otherwise be proved who was at fault!!

He is awarded the "fault" automatically!!!! Then he is treated as though he had failed the alcohol tester.....

So most people here drive 0.0% anyway..........except the alcoholics of course.....

That sounds rough.

So, simply rinsing with any popular brand of mouthwash can land a person in trouble?

Most use alcohol to kill germs.

That is correct, the one with only bad breath will be exonerated!!!!

Seriously, unless you swallow the mouthwash and do it say within 5 - 10 minutes of being stopped and breathalyzed, I seriously doubt whether anything will be registered on the meter. So don't swallow!!! What percentage of alcohol is in a mouthwash?

Furthermore, for that reason, in most European countries they either wait half an hour before testing and/or they test twice 30 minutes apart.....that is to allow alcohol in the mouth area to dissipate.

It should be 0.0 % on the meters (ones used here for example), which may actually be mathematically 0.049% or less I believe with rounding, and therefore possibly not considered to be a level of alcohol by the machine.

Do read this link, I am sure you will laugh!! There are many other websites discussing this too....

http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2582/can-you-get-drunk-on-listerine-how-about-vanilla-extract

Funny.

I got a DUI in 96, with a .09 BAC, and they threw the book at me. Drunk tank, fines, community service, suspended license...the whole 9 yards.

I was driving from the bar, (after 2 short drinks after work), to my house, which was less than 1/2 mile, and they pulled me over for not wearing a seatbelt.

That's when I began to realize that the US had become a police state. Now I don't go anywhere unless I have to.

The police on the street have become nothing more than money collection units.

I understand what you are saying and I am not trying to beat up on you, but we all know that the seat belt saves lives.

We also know that in most western countries they are a requirement of law to be used. Many US cars had/have automatic belts....

Driving without one is tantamount to saying "Come and get me!"

The same is true of having lights not working, or not signalling before turning, driving through a red light etc etc etc....

All are reasons that allow any small minded Cop on a quiet day to pull you up.

There is a US TV program called Cops, it is ASTOUNDING just how many people do such small things, get pulled up, ON CAMERA!! and turn out to be drunk, on drugs, missing insurance, no driving license etc etc..

The only way is not to call it a police state, because if you lost a dear relative because someone jumped a traffic light and ran into them AND HAD THE SAME LEVEL OF ALCOHOL IN HIS BLOOD AS YOU DID!!!! What would be YOUR reaction??????? No problem? I think not.

Simply said, don't drink and drive, keep your car in good order and follow the traffic laws......its amazing that then you have no problems with the Police.....I can say that having driven all over the world, several million miles or so, I have never been the cause of an accident, but have been hit from most directions and the "hitter" was either drunk, on the run, had no license, or all of those things.....

After 50 years of driving, I am most happy with the results.

Though I have to admit, on the rounds of truth, that I drove with what today would be considered to be over the limit, in the 60's. I did not crash my car or hit anyone and there were no machines to test my breath or police to enforce it. Just lucky for me.......I was stupid.......

The machines came to the UK in '67......

I was at once a model citizen/driver......as were many others!!

Some years ago, in a reduced speed area in a village near here, a friend of mine was driving at the correct speed and he got photographed by a portable Radar cameras. He was upset, turned round and went in the opposite direction and was photographed again. He turned and was again photographed.

He stopped an spoke to the Police waiting a few meters on and told them that their Radar was not working as he had been well under the speed limit and been photographed 3 times.

The Policeman said yes, he was not going too fast, but he was not wearing his seat belt!!!!!!! Which is why he was photographed!!

That got quite expensive........and gave him several points on his license.....

I'd be fine with public service messages, in regard to seatbelts. I don't think the government has any business passing laws that are intended to protect us only from ourselves. In the US, the net result of our drug laws, has been to pack our prisons with low level offenders.

No, I wasn't advocating drunk driving. I guess I'm being sour grapes, but at .09, I clearly wasn't drunk, and the little a**hole cop decided that he had to follow the letter of the law, over 1/100 of a point, knowing full well that it would cost me thousands and screw up my life for several years.

jt- You were probably better off with slow cars. Back in the day, some people had cars that were so fast, and very heavy feet, that I was scared to ride with them.

A few wound up dead.

I'll take someone on the road after a few drinks, before a person texting, any day.

The texters are literally all over the road, and have no concept of how fast or slow they're driving.

Frankly, I think being killed with by another driver that drunk or he/she was texting,......

The results are the same.......but if it makes you feel better..... :P

I didn't say drunk.

It's probably just me, but I think we are becoming an increasingly antisocial society, and I don't think it's doing us much good.

I miss the days of stopping after work and having a few beers/drinks with my friends.

Maybe we just got lucky, and made it through life without killing ourselves or anyone else, without massive unconstitutional government intervention.

Oh well...I've got memories. It was fun.

Times have a changed. 1. Traffic on the roads is far way beyond what it was when we were young. (and romantic) 2. the vehicles, although safer now, were much slower then.3. Alcohol was not so readily available. Controlled hours from pubs and outlets, not help yourself from all night supermarkets. 4. Today roads are far more complex. Zebra crossings, flashing lights and beacons, double centre lines, speed restrictions everywhere, some quite pointless in speed and places. speed cameras, etc..

Long gone are the carefree happy days, with one arm around your sweetheart, and the other holding a bottle of beer. The portable playing the latest top 20, sat in the car on a warm summer evening. I think the times were far better then. No heavy handed police - they would say "get on home before I book you!" Forethought instead of fines. Care, not criminal record. I feel so sorry for the young today, no wonder they are in a mess. (compared to our simple world of yesterday.)

Gee, I wish I was in Dixie... I'll make my stand in Dixie.. and many other tunes spring to mind. We could sing when we were young, and the world was young with us.

jt. Take care.

You are driving in a car at a constant speed. On your left side is a valley and on your
right side is a fire engine traveling at the same speed as you. In front of you is a
galloping pig which is the same size as your car and you cannot overtake it.
Behind you is a helicopter flying at ground level. Both the giant pig and the helicopter
are also traveling at the same speed as you. What must you do to safely get out of this highly dangerous situation?

Get off the children's Merry-Go-Round, you're drunk...

Cars were slower then?

You must be a lot older than me. When I was young, cars were both big and fast.

But yeah...those were some good days. We've lost more freedom in the past 4 decades than most people realize.

Hi Kamarat,
Yes (uk) cars were slower when I was a lad. Most just made 30-40 mph and, you could get 50-60 out of a Pilot V8. It was risky to push any to hard as the brakes just were not
up to it. (especially the Morris cars - useless brakes. If you wanted to have your heart in your mouth then, drive a Morris!)

Later on the motorways opened and it was possible to reach 120, twice the speed!

Happy days as you say, wish I was back then. Kind regards.

jt.