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Do Engineers Make Good Terrorists?

Posted May 21, 2014 10:16 AM by HUSH
Pathfinder Tags: career DEGREE engineers terrorism

So before I incite an online riot, I should note this disclaimer: I do not believe you, sir or madam, are a terrorist.

However, your intrinsic knowledge of technical and mechanical principles makes you about four times more likely to be a terrorist…and therefore I've already submitted your IP address to the Department of Homeland Security. (I'm joking; we all know they don't need the likes of me for such tedium!)

I mean what is "terrorism" anyway? Nothing but a difference in ideals and an enflaming label to rally behind. But the past 20 years has shown subversive rebels in our midst represent a real, dangerous threat to everyone, everywhere-no matter your allegiance or location.

First, the anecdotes. In 2010, several high-profile terrorist acts were perpetrated by engineers. In February of that year, a software engineer crashed his plane into an IRS office. In March, an engineering grad student shot up the Pentagon. May was a busy month, as a network engineer tried to bomb Times Square, and a civil engineer was caught smuggling weapons onto an airliner. Let's not forget the mastermind behind 9/11 was an architectural engineer, and eightof the hijackers were engineers themselves. Lashkar e-Taiba, the Pakistani group responsible for the Mumbai attacks, and Hezbollah, the terrorist organization in power in Lebanon, aggressively recruit engineers to their ranks.

But there is hard data to back up this conclusion. This study reviewed 400 known terrorists from 30 nations in Africa and the Middle East, who had been born between 1950 and 1979. They discovered that terrorists tend to come from prosperous families, are better educated, and are three to four times more likely to have an engineering degree than any other type. And of those radical Muslims born or raised in Western countries, 60% are engineers. Other studies suggest that engineers are likely to have leadership roles in terrorist organizations, but are unlikely to exploit their knowledge when carrying out attacks. This means that the link between engineers and terrorism is based more on an individual's ideological beliefs than a targeted need for knowledgeable individuals.

There are a few hypotheses to explain this link. First, it's likely that engineering jobs in many Middle East countries were scarcer than the individuals qualified to fill them. Unemployment and class disparity quickly leads to civil unrest-remember the Occupy movement? The lone country examined where engineers did not compose a disproportionate number of terrorists was Saudi Arabia, a country where oil riches have indeed trickled down.

Also, in a demographic survey of engineers, it was determined that engineers are twice as likely to consider themselves both very religious and right-wing conservative; 46% of American engineers identify as religious and conservative, compared to 22% of scientists. It's been empirically proven that conservative attitudes prefer questions which provide closure, rather than open-ended challenges with myriad solutions.

In a stark contrast to engineer-terrorists, there is no disproportionate ratio between engineers and communists, anarchists or gang members.

So now it is your turn to weigh in CR4. Do you believe that engineers are more likely to be turned into terrorists? How do you explain the unusually high number of engineering-bred terrorists?

Please remember to be mature and thoughtful in your responses.

Resources

NYT - Idea Lab: Engineering Terror

Foreign Policy Blog - There's A Good Reason...

Slate - Build-a-Bomber

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#1

Re: Do Engineers Make Good Terrorists?

05/21/2014 10:53 AM

It's just that engineers are the most likely to be able to accomplish a complicated task involving electro-mechanical components in an unorthodox application, whereas rogue shooters are most likely to just be mentally unbalanced.....I would consider both to be terrorists, one armed with knowledge the other with a gun....but both angry beyond words, and reason....

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#2

Re: Do Engineers Make Good Terrorists?

05/21/2014 11:32 AM

Do engineers make good Terrorists?........

maybe by accident......

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#3

Re: Do Engineers Make Good Terrorists?

05/21/2014 1:42 PM

Do wives make good terrorists?

Do mothers make good terrorists?

Do children make good terrorists?

Do fathers make good terrorists?

Do uncles make good terrorists?

Do clerics make good terrorists?

Take your pick. Terrorists are not made as a result of belonging to any particular group.

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#18
In reply to #3

Re: Do Engineers Make Good Terrorists?

05/22/2014 9:07 AM

100% of terrorists either are or were at one time children. Therefore the statistics would seem to support the contention that children do make good terrorists.

But... the only terrorists that we know about are those who get caught or killed, not those who survive to go on committing further acts of terror, and thus can be termed 'good' or at least successful terrorists. Therefore if a high proportion of terrorists that we know about are engineers this implies that engineers make rather poor terrorists.

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#24
In reply to #18

Re: Do Engineers Make Good Terrorists?

05/22/2014 10:02 AM

Your comment would seem to support the contention that, you are either, not very good at deducing reliable implications of statistics, or that you have dessicated your sense of humor to an impressive degree.

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#42
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Re: Do Engineers Make Good Terrorists?

05/22/2014 12:55 PM

I will take your reference to my dry sense of humor as a compliment. There are others around me that that complain of living in a "humorless" desert.

I do have a healthy scepticism in respect of all statistics. "do you support the war against terrorism" and "do you want to go to war to defeat terrorism" may be a rephrasing of the same question but statistically the answers might be slightly different.

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#27
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Re: Do Engineers Make Good Terrorists?

05/22/2014 10:18 AM

On that basis, I know a lot of engineers that act like children...... so yes, engineers do make good terrorists.

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#28
In reply to #18

Re: Do Engineers Make Good Terrorists?

05/22/2014 10:24 AM

"100% of terrorists either are or were at one time children."

So if we kill all the children, we'll get rid of the terrorists, brilliant! What could go wrong, you say? Ask who? I don't know anyone named King Herod...

(If anyone is offended, I apologize, my knee jerked and hit the keyboard.)

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#47
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Re: Do Engineers Make Good Terrorists?

05/22/2014 1:52 PM

While there are many valid reasons for killing children (especially at times my own), that they may one day turn out to be terrorists is not one. It assumes that you actually want to stamp out terrorism. If one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter then some of the population at least have a vested interest in keeping the terrorists out there.

Chucking tea into Boston harbor was an act of terrorism in it;s day. But the terrorists in that instance won, so as winners they got the opportunity to re-write history, and today it is a glorious act that sparked freedom for a new nation.

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#49
In reply to #47

Re: Do Engineers Make Good Terrorists?

05/22/2014 2:26 PM

Er, no. that was not terrorism. That was not even CLOSE to terrorism. If anything it was vandalism at worst. No one died, there was no fighting. no one was even injured. merely property damage at worst.

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#55
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Re: Do Engineers Make Good Terrorists?

05/22/2014 5:18 PM

As one American and one Brit. we see that act from different standpoints. Isn't that the whole debate about terrorists and freedom fighters in a nutshell.

Incidentally, as far as I know, when you won, your new government never apologised for that incident, and no compensation was ever paid. Kinda sucks if you're just a tea merchant paying his taxes and trying to make a buck. But that's governments for you.

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#63
In reply to #55

Re: Do Engineers Make Good Terrorists?

05/23/2014 2:58 PM

NO! Terrorism requires someone to die, or at least be in fear of dying. Perhaps what came later could be classified that way, but the tea party itself was not violent in in any way. The ships were lightly guarded and there were no casualties on either side.

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#60
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Re: Do Engineers Make Good Terrorists?

05/22/2014 11:26 PM

Who would be offended? Seems like a very Judeo-Christian solution.

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#128
In reply to #60

Re: Do Engineers Make Good Terrorists?

05/28/2014 10:04 AM

Two groups come to mind:

Those who hate to see Judeo-Christian references brought up because it does not represent THEIR beliefs.

Those who hate to see negative Judeo-Christian brought up because it IS their beliefs and they don't want it cast in a bad light.

There's an old Aesop fable about the old man, the boy and the donkey, with the moral of "When trying to offend no-one, the result is that everyone will be displeased." (It's a long tale, starting with all three on foot, then the donkey carrying one, the other, or both, finally the man and boy are carrying the donkey, and they lose their balance on a bridge, the donkey falls in the river and drowns. All because their current configuration offended the next passer-by.)

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#143
In reply to #128

Re: Do Engineers Make Good Terrorists?

05/28/2014 1:00 PM

Thank you. I like the Aesop fable reference.

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#4

Re: Do Engineers Make Good Terrorists?

05/21/2014 2:14 PM

Discussion has been previously posted on the forums. Please check this 2009 discussion. http://cr4.globalspec.com/thread/48264

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#5

Re: Do Engineers Make Good Terrorists?

05/21/2014 5:26 PM

Does effective war making depend heavily on engineering?

Do engineers bring abilities likely to be valued highly in combat strategy, preparation and execution? Does it make sense that terrorist groups would seek to capitalize on this by targeting engineers for recruitment, or pushing smart students towards engineering?

Does the typical socially awkward science devoted adolescent, aka nerd, often have certain characteristics that might make that person more vulnerable to carefully orchestrated manipulation?

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#40
In reply to #5

Re: Do Engineers Make Good Terrorists?

05/22/2014 12:41 PM

No periods! Problem solved?

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#61
In reply to #40

Re: Do Engineers Make Good Terrorists?

05/22/2014 11:43 PM

Would you prefer ended questions with some punctuation other than question marks?

.

Or are you suggesting feminicide?

.

Rhetorical questions, who needs'm?

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#6

Re: Do Engineers Make Good Terrorists?

05/21/2014 10:43 PM

Surely anybody possessing any sort of analytical thought process, who expended enough time, energy and money to become an engineer in the first place could deduce that partaking in some kind of terrorist activity, (generally....but not always) based on some form of religious or personal belief, is a complete waste of time?

Engineering is the study, observation, and application of factual scinetific evidence, is it not?

Using ones evil engineering prowess to deduct a method of robbing a bank without any casualties.....now thats probably something that is worth expending considerable effort on......IMO.

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#7
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Re: Do Engineers Make Good Terrorists?

05/22/2014 1:24 AM

Studying, observing and applying factual scientific evidence does not guarantee perfect insight even when restricting the range to subjects directly studied, much less once outside those formal bounds.

.

Determining whether a person is a terrorist or an action is terrorism is highly dependent upon perspective. Here in the US, our founding fathers and other revolutionaries would almost certainly have been seen as the equivalent of terrorists to many in Great Britain. Today the US is highly involved in countering terrorist threats it perceives. Some people see exactly those countering actions as the actual acts of terrorism.

.

You are right that many less than beneficial undertakings are initiated and reinforced by less than logical personal and religious beliefs, but merely because a person is not deluded by fantasy does not mean they are necessarily benign.

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#29
In reply to #7

Re: Do Engineers Make Good Terrorists?

05/22/2014 10:32 AM

Exactly, or to put it in simpler terms:

Alex's 'terrorists' are Bob's 'freedom fighters,' Bob's 'terrorists' are Alex's 'counter-terrorist task force.'

It all depends on which end of the gun is pointed at you. If it's the handle end, then these are 'good guys,' if it's the little pipe-like end, then these are 'bad guys.'

It'd be nice if we could settle our differences with something a bit safer than (para)military actions, something like playing lawn darts while drunk. (I never got to do that, then again, I never lost a family member to lawn darts either, so I guess it balances out.)

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#45
In reply to #29

Re: Do Engineers Make Good Terrorists?

05/22/2014 1:41 PM

No, no, no.

Terrorists TARGET civilians or civilian infrastructure, typically in a non-warfare environment, generally seeking to inflict as many casualties as possible.

Freedom fighters (or any other soldier worthy of the distinction) AVOID civilians & infrastructure, generally seeking to minimize collateral damage.

Now, I wrote that before consulting a dictionary. But I bet they're a lot closer to what objectively qualifies as terrorist/freedom fighter than what you guys are saying.

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#48
In reply to #45

Re: Do Engineers Make Good Terrorists?

05/22/2014 2:16 PM

Politicians and speech-writers don't bother with what the dictionary says.

Can you just see General Pompous Fullofhimself, the Benevolent First Citizen and Merciful Father-Figure of the People's Glorious Republic of Peace and Prosperity (aka, tinpot dictator)(1) giving a speech about the Freedom Fighters wresting control of village after village from his military?

And on the other side of the coin, how many 'Freedom Fighters' strive to maintain the 'moral high ground' within their ranks, kicking out the good fighters for failing to uphold the high standards of the group?(2) And how many groups of Freedom Fighters end up moving illegal drugs 'Just one time' to help with the expenses of fighting an oppressive regime, how many turn a blind eye to the 'accidental indiscretion' of the serial rapist when he 'has a relapse' after he lead a squat to liberate a village? "Warfare is stressful, he just went crazy for a bit after nearly being killed. We even gave the village an extra monetary gift out of the money we made moving drugs."

We can argue semantics all day, but semantics only mean anything in places where you can use the fine china for tea and light conversation.

Notes:

1) http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/PeoplesRepublicofTyranny

2) Even America has taken less-than-savory types into our ranks to fight for freedom: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friedrich_Wilhelm_von_Steuben#Homosexuality

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#62
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Re: Do Engineers Make Good Terrorists?

05/22/2014 11:59 PM

"...Even America has taken less-than-savory types into our ranks to fight for freedom: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friedrich_Wilhelm_von_Steuben#Homosexuality..."

.

While I lack the experience to comment on this subject with respect to the gustatory aspect of 'savory', I can report that, with respect to olfactory aspects of savory, homosexuals are quite often the more savory of the sexualities. This is more of a factor of the infrequency of sporting an overtly offensive odor, whether related to a hygiene deficiency or excessive application of cologne.

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#129
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Re: Do Engineers Make Good Terrorists?

05/28/2014 10:11 AM

Remember, back in the days of the American Revolution, all European nations were Christian of one flavor or another (often several at once, with the majority trying to convert/drive out/kill the minorities, that's why there's that 'Religious Freedom' clause in the US Constitution), and ALL of them considered homosexuality a sin, and considered man-boy relations of 'that' type to be crimes against the child.

So, one of the great heroes of the American Revolution was a Homosexual, a Pedophile, and a Con Artist. He was never a General in the German military, although Washington granted him a General's commission, as well as an estate where he could raise a few boys, for his efforts in securing American Independence.

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#138
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Re: Do Engineers Make Good Terrorists?

05/28/2014 11:01 AM

Who was that? I'm curious as it was never brought up in my hs Am. History classes ('62-'66) and I've never heard any conservative talk people mention it. I'd like to research it and point it out to them.

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#139
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Re: Do Engineers Make Good Terrorists?

05/28/2014 11:11 AM

he means Von Steuben. He was by all appearances a very good military instructor and wrote military doctrine that survived over 100 years. the issue of his resume "enhancement" would appear to be one of mistranslation by others, not of his own doing. And in Washington's army, competence was needed wherever it was to be found.

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#144
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Re: Do Engineers Make Good Terrorists?

05/28/2014 1:26 PM

Remember that back in the days of the American Revolution, the age of consent, in Europe and in the colonies/US, was pretty uniformly around 12 years of age. This was not increased in the US until the late 1800's when most states raised the age to 16 or in some cases 18.

.

The entry in Wikipedia you reference suggests a possible relationship with a 17 year old. A 17 year old isn't a child. Calling someone a pedophile on the basis of suspicion of sexual relations with a 17 year old, is misleading at best.

.

I'm uncertain of the support for the Con Artist description. Are you assuming that for Washington to grant General's commission that he must have been conned?

.

At the moment it seems, the extent of support for suggesting this person was an unsavory type is that he is suspected of engaging in homosexual sex. That was probably pretty heinous to some at the time, but didn't apparently stop the President from treating him very well. Suggesting today that someone is an 'unsavory' character seems like it needs supporting evidence that rumors of homosexual activity fails to satisfy.

.

If you exhumed the body and tasted it, I'd take your word for it if you said he was of an unsavory type.

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#145
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Re: Do Engineers Make Good Terrorists?

05/28/2014 2:04 PM

I'll need to do some research to get the 'hard data' to back up my claims, much of my current information is admittedly second hand, related to me by a colleague, Dr. Samuel Conway. I don't correspond with him that frequently, so there may be some delay in my response here.

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#58
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Re: Do Engineers Make Good Terrorists?

05/22/2014 10:58 PM

I don't think that terrorism aims for maximum civilian death necessarily. Terrorism seems to aim for maximum negative psychological effect. Consider some examples:

.

Kidnappers who video tape sawing the head off a western journalist are quite clearly guilty of terrorism, yet they could have easily killed more westerners. The efforts towards publicity and the shocking method of execution are often displayed characteristics of terrorism.

.

The most profound effect of a dirty bomb is almost certainly not that many people will die. In all likelihood, many people will not die. What makes a dirty bomb a particularly attractive weapon for terrorists is the overblown fear people have of all things radioactive. Playing on that fear via dirty bomb would be likely to create significant disruptions with enduring psychological effects.

.

Poisoning or bombing subways may kill a number of people, but the disruption aims for more than those deaths. If people in a large city can be made so afraid to travel that they refuse to do so, it paralyzes the city.

.

Terrorists are not necessarily aiming for maximum civilian deaths. Maximum disruption is probably the goal and to such ends, maximum death is not necessarily the best means. Severely injure people are far more disruptive than people who are killed outright....almost always in the short term, but often in longer perspectives as well.

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#65
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Re: Do Engineers Make Good Terrorists?

05/23/2014 3:03 PM

very fair point. terrorism REQUIRES it's target to be TERRORIZE. It is equal parts assymetric warfare and psy-ops.

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#91
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Re: Do Engineers Make Good Terrorists?

05/27/2014 1:21 PM

I think you nailed it. In so many words, creating large scale public terror is terrorism.

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#92
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Re: Do Engineers Make Good Terrorists?

05/27/2014 1:31 PM

Those are good points,........... but when a westerner visualize a terrorist, they picture a person from a mid-eastern accent, or Muslim....... (profiling)

But throwing a wrench in this......... even our own religion's such as Catholic Church could be looked at as a terrorist organization........ at least one point in time or at the very minimum blackmailing.

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#117
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Re: Do Engineers Make Good Terrorists?

05/28/2014 12:00 AM

As far as terrorist organizations, it seems like two types of large organizations have had a corner on the market for a long time.... governments and religions. There are certainly individual nuts and even small mixed nut collectives, but almost everything with any staying power is either a religion or an organization that is or is vying to be the government.

I suppose there are large multinational corporations that some people would claim act as terrorists, but I'm not sure even if the acts are terror, if merely outsourcing is enough to absolve government from responsibility.

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#120
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Re: Do Engineers Make Good Terrorists?

05/28/2014 6:48 AM

"...... if merely outsourcing is enough to absolve government from responsibility."

Another good point to think about.

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#98
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Re: Do Engineers Make Good Terrorists?

05/27/2014 3:14 PM

Yes, probably the most effective terrorist in the US was the MD sniper. I live in the county where he killed the most victims. The first few were miles from my house. I was traveling 200 miles from where I lived and was pumping gas. The manager asked me where I lived in MD. When I answered he said no wonder I pumped my own gas. Everyone wanted the manager to pump their gas even though there was no shooting within 180 miles from that gas station. The sniper had the whole mid East Coast terrorized because no one felt safe even hundreds of miles away from a shooting.

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#118
In reply to #98

Re: Do Engineers Make Good Terrorists?

05/28/2014 1:11 AM

I think you may be right in the context of recent history. While I was far enough south not to be concerned, I remember being concerned for family and friends in the area.

.

There have been serial killers with a penchant for terror that have shaken up communities for extended periods, California in the 80's comes to mind, but the beltway sniper events seem to grab the attention of a bigger area very quickly.

.

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I find it strange the way we relate to genuine terror compared to a terrifying thrill. No one wants to open a letter with anthrax powder, or receive a ticking box with no return address. But there are many people, myself included, who delight in being unnerved.

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I am delighted when someone is able to sneak up and startle me, or when someone hides well enough to go unnoticed and instead of yelling, really creeps me out by saying something fairly quiet that makes me realize someone is far closer than I realize...and then the obligatory involuntary charades on acid routine. It makes me giddy immediately after and I smile thinking about it at least several times later in the day.

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I considered the idea that it could be the relief that I was not ______ whatever the irrational thing that motivates doing the startle-dance. I don't think that is it though, since I do not get the same feeling after an idiot nearly misses entangling me a the fruits of their recklessness.

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I also think it is interesting how differently we treat fictional terror, even if similar functional impairment results. Think about how many people were genuinely impaired by movies like Jaws.

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When I was in high school, I worked on a dive boat for a while, and did a lot of scuba diving related to that job and separately. Later I worked with mammals and animals at a marine park and had a lot of in water interaction with various sharks. Even though I have never worked with any of the big three of man-eating sharks, I've been in the water with two out of three on numerous occasions and have no problem remaining cool-headed..... but, I can still unnerve myself without seeing a shark just thinking about that movie, Jaws, especially at night.

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The first night dive I ever did, I kept envisioning rolling back off the side of the boat into a vast open shark mouth. Everything was too beautiful to hold onto that fear once I was in the water, but many people are more affected. There are people who get too freaked out to swim by the idea of Jaws .....in a backyard pool.

.

.

Anyway, I'm not trying to trivialize the effect the beltway sniper had, just mentioning some observations that are somewhat related that strike me as odd.

.

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#122
In reply to #118

Re: Do Engineers Make Good Terrorists?

05/28/2014 9:01 AM

We all have different anxiety levels. Men as a whole, have less than women. Still, you see plenty of women riding thrill rides. I think there is a correlation between anxiety level and a violence comfort level. Thrill seekers usually enjoy violent movies more than anxious persons. Seeing a violent movie calms me down but upsets my wife. A violence comfort level does not have much to do about being violent. Violent persons have low impulse control along with being capable of violence. Those with good control need a good reason to become violent such as being in combat or in defense of family or home.

I gather you are a bit of a thrill seeker.

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#141
In reply to #122

Re: Do Engineers Make Good Terrorists?

05/28/2014 12:41 PM

You gather correctly....well except for the 'bit' part.

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#70
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Re: Do Engineers Make Good Terrorists?

05/23/2014 9:04 PM

"Fish don't know they're under water......think."

Do you think that's true of 'flying fish'?......think.

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#71
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Re: Do Engineers Make Good Terrorists?

05/23/2014 9:24 PM

I can't speak to the delusions of fish. People on the other hand, often have a habit of making their delusions more apparent.

Fish are generally 'in' water. Flying fish are usually 'in' water and sometimes 'above' water.

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#8

Re: Do Engineers Make Good Terrorists?

05/22/2014 1:28 AM

The level of civilisation is measured by Engineering marvels like Great Pyramids about 5000years ago , later by Clossium,Aqua duct etc,after that by the Industrial revolution ,subsequently by computers,space travel,genetic engineering,cloning etc etc because Engineers can "do/design something". If an engineer make a bomb we can't label him as a terrorist,then the person who made AK47,Nuclear bomb etc too should be called terrorists. Due to multinational workers involved in engineering projects & due to religious/racial governments & foolish UN there are many cases of racial,religious,caste based,nationality based abuses forcing a few to get involved/ supporting rebellions.

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#9
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Re: Do Engineers Make Good Terrorists?

05/22/2014 1:34 AM

You should not single out Engineers if you don't punish priests/clergy,doctors, politicians,state employees,traders,ambassadors,even prisoners attacking innocent people.

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#10
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Re: Do Engineers Make Good Terrorists?

05/22/2014 1:40 AM

Help me out with how someone acting in their capacity as a doctor is the same as someone engineering an IED?

.

Is it something along the lines of using antibiotics to perpetrate genocide on vast populations of bacteria?

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#11
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Re: Do Engineers Make Good Terrorists?

05/22/2014 3:14 AM

They can racially abuse minorities & terrorise them without taking weapons,similar to politicians,priests etc

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#13
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Re: Do Engineers Make Good Terrorists?

05/22/2014 5:42 AM

What you are describing is not a function of any defining characteristic of their occupation.

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'Abuse minorities & terrorize them'? What part of practicing medicine suggests any correlation with that, to you? Why did you introduce 'minority' into the discussion? Can't majorities be terrorized?

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If you are suggesting that some doctors probably exhibit racist behavior and that some doctors might even be terrorists, I wouldn't disagree, but if you are suggesting that there is something about being a doctor that induces racism or terrorist behavior, or even that those things are significantly more prevalent among doctors than the general population, I say you might need to make an appointment to go see a doctor, or at least check your temperature.

.

Anyone who isn't abiding by the Hippocratic they swore isn't actually a true doctor. As such there isn't likely to be much terrorism generated from a group of true doctors.

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#15
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Re: Do Engineers Make Good Terrorists?

05/22/2014 6:05 AM

Majority(major community)cannot be terrorised because they have government, sovereignty,ambassadors,foreign aid including army,diplomatic relations,capitalist countries supporting them,passing resolution in UN etc even USA declaring minority as terrorists but approving crimes committed on them by majority even by neighbouring dirty state.

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#22
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Re: Do Engineers Make Good Terrorists?

05/22/2014 9:51 AM

'...Majority(major community)cannot be terrorised...'

.

That is an absurd thing to say. Being a majority does not confer immunity to terrorist activity. Could you really suggest that the majority of people in New York City ...as well as other places...on 9/11/2001 were not effectively terrorized?

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In fact, terrorist action, being a type of guerrilla warfare, is actually ideally suited for a small minority to affect far larger majorities.

.

Attempting to retell the story by using your own special definitions of words really doesn't serve much positive purpose.

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#26
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Re: Do Engineers Make Good Terrorists?

05/22/2014 10:14 AM

New York terrorism is negligible compared to world wars & civil wars in which due to attack by state forces -millions of unarmed people perished,lost limbs,lost loved ones,tortured,kept in prison indefinitely,killed in custody,raped,kept in undisclosed location,lawyers & relatives refused permission to see,sometimes body given to loved ones under certain conditions,labelled "missing",brought foreign troops to kill minorities,dropping chemical weapons,barrel bombs,kept starving-without water or food,Uncle Sam calling freedom fighters as "terrorists",false flagging as in Iraq etc etc

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#30
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Re: Do Engineers Make Good Terrorists?

05/22/2014 10:45 AM

I'd probably get in trouble with Admin if I called you an ignorant idiot, so I'll just think it and not say it.

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#32
In reply to #30

Re: Do Engineers Make Good Terrorists?

05/22/2014 11:03 AM

Thank you for beating me to the punchline here. I'd say more, but then we'd both get in trouble with 'Mother' (the admins).

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#33
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Re: Do Engineers Make Good Terrorists?

05/22/2014 11:08 AM

Some things just HAVE to be said.

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#34
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Re: Do Engineers Make Good Terrorists?

05/22/2014 11:18 AM

Yes, but on a purely selfish note, it's nice when I'm not the one who has to say it and face the fallout for being 'that guy.'

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#46
In reply to #26

Re: Do Engineers Make Good Terrorists?

05/22/2014 1:48 PM

You have a valid point. We "only" lost 3000 or so people on 9/11/2001. 100's of thousands have died in the wars the event spawned.

War sucks. So does death in general.

I dare say that most Americans would consider the invasion of Afghanistan a necessity, and that the invasion of Iraq a mistake. ("Lots" of Americans are ashamed of what we did in Iraq, either the decision to do it, or the incompetent way we did it.)

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#50
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Re: Do Engineers Make Good Terrorists?

05/22/2014 2:45 PM

("Lots" of Americans are ashamed of what we did in Iraq, either the decision to do it, or the incompetent way we did it.)

IMO, Not at all, if the UN would have done its diplomatic job and made Saddam Hussein to keep the UN inspectors inspecting as per the surrender agreement, the (2) war against Iraq never would have taken place. The blame has to be put were it belongs.

Now on the first war with Iraq........ that will vary, intelligence pointed that this had to stop.

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#51
In reply to #50

Re: Do Engineers Make Good Terrorists?

05/22/2014 3:02 PM

Further, the line about "no WMD found" is a crock. There were numerous instances of evidence of WMD's, everything from hundreds of barrels of yellowcake that was sold and shipped to Canadian uranium mining operators to a toxic waste dump that was completely saturated with nerve agents and warehouses full of empty chemical weapons artillery shells, to reports from high level Iraqi military officers that the road from Iraq to Syria was like rush hour on Houston's 610 west loop with trucks carrying every nuclear biological and chemical weapon Saddam had in his inventory in the weeks running up to the commencement of hostilities. Frankly I believe that we saw that happening via satellite and U2/SR71 flights and knew precisely what it meant and that was the reason we delayed hostilities for so long. We did not WANT Saddam to use them because our troops were poorly prepared to deal with chemical and biological weapons in a hot desert environment. We knew that casualties would be horrible and we decided to kick the can down the road and let him pass them to Bashir Assad instead in the hopes that we could convince Assad to hand them over through diplomatic channels at a later date. That never occurred so he used them on his own people instead.

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#52
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Re: Do Engineers Make Good Terrorists?

05/22/2014 3:29 PM

well, as far as WMD's, due to the quick response time (sarcastically said) reaction of the UN. Its no wonder of Syria's sudden advancements in WMD's.........

but, some to people, these are just nothing more than unrelated talking points........... because its Bush's fault......

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#54
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Re: Do Engineers Make Good Terrorists?

05/22/2014 4:55 PM

You have made this statement before, but each time I looked I found nothing authoritative, just right wingers saying he had WMD until we attacked and left wingers saying he didn't.

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#56
In reply to #54

Re: Do Engineers Make Good Terrorists?

05/22/2014 6:00 PM

You can treat it as your opinion than also. The WMD's were not there, evidence showed they're were. not the WMDs itself, but evidence that there were there. Saddam even used them. But the slow reaction and response of the UN, that also telegraphed its response of what they were going to do. Gave Saddam plenty of time to plan and move them.

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#64
In reply to #54

Re: Do Engineers Make Good Terrorists?

05/23/2014 3:00 PM

So where did assad get his sarin gas if not from Saddam? it had to come from somewhere.

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#86
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Re: Do Engineers Make Good Terrorists?

05/27/2014 8:50 AM

We don't have to look to Assad to know that Saddam had chemical and biological weapons. We, and by we I mean the US, Great Britain, and Germany, knew with certainty Saddam, not only possessed such weapons, but could manufacture such weapons and had mentored experience in effectively targeting such weapons.

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Between the US, Germany, and Great Britain, the technology, the know how, the precursors, and even the various samples of botulism, west nile, anthrax and small pox. The CIA even assisted the Iraqis with targeting chemical/biological weapons against Iranians. If there was any doubt left, the US and Great Britain used their seats on the security council to blocked UN condemnation of Iraq for use of such weapons in the Iraq Iran war.

.

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Saddam was a serious issue that we had a large part in creating. It was an issue that stood on its own. It wasn't related to 9/11 and conflating those events was a mistake. We needed to do what we could to disassemble the monster that we had built, but telling everyone we were doing it because of the Twin Towers wasn't a good way to step up to the plate.

I'm still puzzled why Saddam didn't use more of those weapons instead of trying to hide them.

.

Afghanistan/the Taliban were also problems that we were heavily involved in creating. The difference is that it was directly tied to 9/11, so there was nothing shifty or underhanded about declaring our intentions to fix those problems.

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#87
In reply to #86

Re: Do Engineers Make Good Terrorists?

05/27/2014 9:44 AM

Saddam was a serious issue that we had a large part in creating.

That is a complicated issue that I agree with........

IMO

At the time we were indirectly?????? assisting Saddam, it was due to at the time, Saddam was the 'lesser of two evils'........ I apologize for the over use phase

But what would have happened if at the time we did nothing........ well, at the time it looked like it would have gotten worse. because at the time, we were highly depended upon the oil in the region. And we could not risk losing that.

Keep that in mind now, especially when we have an emerging super power in China with it's own needs.

It's also my opinion that future Conflict will be about

  • Oil
  • Water
  • and food.

And possible a pandemic naturally occurring or man made..

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#110
In reply to #87

Re: Do Engineers Make Good Terrorists?

05/27/2014 5:53 PM

It was complicated. It remains complicated.

.

No matter how complicated it becomes, I hope we can avoid involving ourselves in situations that take on the pattern of:

....first, providing critical assistance to a group with questionable morality/restraint, towards developing a truly heinous capability;

....followed by assisting that group with intelligence, targeting that heinous capability and using our security council seat to quash an UN condemnation;

....then later pointing to the very capability we were a key part of enabling and the willingness to use that we apparently nurtured, as the reason a massive invasion is urgently needed.

.

.

What is really absurd when I think about it, it that we can't even claim that the greater of the two evils did have a lot to do with us as well.

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#88
In reply to #86

Re: Do Engineers Make Good Terrorists?

05/27/2014 9:52 AM

Note that GWB acknowledged that we didn't find significant WMDs in Iraq. We just didn't find them.

In the months before the invasion, the UN inspectors searched and found no evidence (of significant stores or capability). In the months after the invasion, our own teams searched and found no evidence.

Faux News likes to trumpet the 20-year-old artillery shells left over from the Iran-Iraq war as the mushroom-cloud-shaped smoking gun. Weighed against the results of the war, they are not worth consideration. The typical American city has more WMD in its kitchen cabinets than that.

Syria has had their own capability for a long time. Russia has also sponsored Syria for a long time. Some of these weapons are not that hard to make. Claims that Saddam had a bunch of them but shipped them to Syria are pathetic justification for the invasion and carnage that followed.

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#89
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Re: Do Engineers Make Good Terrorists?

05/27/2014 12:30 PM

That is the watered down version..... that the majority of liberals likes to use for their talking points......

But this is the actually report from the inspectors.........

Again, they (they being Iraq) dragged their feet to the resolutions, and when the inspectors finally were able to inspect, nothing to be found.........

Reminds me of the game........ "Marco" .................. "Polo".........

it proves nothing, but it does raises questions.......... if nothing is to be found, why stall and stonewall....... Iraq agreed to the UN resolutions. Past history points that there is something there........... Saddam broke the resolution to inspect by limited access to the inspectors..

Now what if it was up to the UN to enforce the resolutions....... IMO, there is no real leadership there.

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#90
In reply to #88

Re: Do Engineers Make Good Terrorists?

05/27/2014 1:15 PM

As for as your comment of:

"Syria has had their own capability for a long time. Russia has also sponsored Syria for a long time.........."

That is just a comment with very little reinforcement......... what is 'a long time' for you anyways?

Syria was trying to get chemical WMD's since the 80's because of it's adversarial relationship with Israel...... and that may be what you are misinterpreting ...... wanting WMD's and having the capability of having WMD's have very different meanings........

What was stopping Syria from having WMD's is from 1972 to 1986 the Israeli Threat of Initial CW Imports to Syria....... and if Syria did receive anything, it was defensive chemical weapons.

.......so lets start with 30 years???? and even then, that is just 5 years from the start of the first Iraqi war.......

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#96
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Re: Do Engineers Make Good Terrorists?

05/27/2014 2:37 PM

I think it's very reasonable to assume Syria has had WMD since before 2000. Somewhere in the 1990's seems a conservative estimate. Not that it matters much.

There seems to be good evidence that Iraq sent a lot of something to Syria in early 2003. I've seen no evidence to indicate that "something" was WMD. There are many things that could have been.

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#97
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Re: Do Engineers Make Good Terrorists?

05/27/2014 2:46 PM

I think it's very reasonable to assume Syria has had WMD since before 2000. Somewhere in the 1990's seems a conservative estimate. Not that it matters much.

Now it comes back to what I mentioned earlier....... it proves nothing, but it does raises questions.......... neither one of us is 100% correct........ and we can agree on this.

Now if Saddam would have let the UN inspectors do their job without interference as the UN resolutions stated........ then and only then can we be for certain.

Since that was not so, my position, I side with history of what Saddam actions were. And that is what was really available at the time.

And because of that, if I knew then what I know now........... I would be even more aggressive that Saddam be following the UN resolutions, and that is the responsibility of the leadership of the UN............. is it not?

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#99
In reply to #97

Re: Do Engineers Make Good Terrorists?

05/27/2014 4:03 PM

What do you mean by, "the leadership of the UN?" The UN is little more than a debating society, you know. Sometimes the best that can be said of it is, it's better than nothing. (That being said, the UN does a lot of good work, on issues that we all agree.)

The UN inspectors reported that Saddam WAS being completely compliant in the months leading to the invasion. It was just too slow and too late to satisfy Bush/Cheney. I think the truth is, nothing could have satisfied Bush/Cheney, and we were going to invade.

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#100
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Re: Do Engineers Make Good Terrorists?

05/27/2014 4:08 PM

The UN inspectors reported that Saddam WAS being completely compliant in the months leading to the invasion.

Marco!.......

The UN inspectors reported that Saddam WAS being completely compliant in the months leading to the invasion.

Did it give the reason why Saddam initially was not following the UN resolutions?.

Polo!

It was just too slow and too late to satisfy Bush/Cheney.

I see, was that also sourced on 'Faux news'?

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#102
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Re: Do Engineers Make Good Terrorists?

05/27/2014 4:19 PM

Did it give the reason why Saddam initially was not following the UN resolutions?.

No, but others did. For what it's worth, Saddam had domestic and regional reasons to act cagey about his WMDs, real or imagined.

It was just too slow and too late to satisfy Bush/Cheney.

I see, was that also sourced on 'Faux news'?

Nope. My conclusion is based on the fact that we invaded at a time when the UN inspectors reported that Saddam was complying 100% with their requests - and they were finding nothing of interest, not even evidence of recent activity.

So I looked hard for evidence of the post-invasion plan, and couldn't find any. I could only hope that they had all these plans and were keeping them quiet for some reason.

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#104
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Re: Do Engineers Make Good Terrorists?

05/27/2014 4:41 PM

Nope. My conclusion is based on the fact that we invaded at a time when the UN inspectors reported that Saddam was complying 100% with their requests

Eventually,......... yes he did comply. I'm sorry you did not pick up my Marco Polo sarcasm.

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#106
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Re: Do Engineers Make Good Terrorists?

05/27/2014 4:51 PM

I got your sarcasm. Let's blow up your neighbor's house - with the family inside - and every street leading to your neighborhood.

Then you can watch him scream for help. You can go in and dig his kids out. No ambulance will arrive because they can't make it through. You can help him carry his kids to the bed of a 4X4 and rush them x-country to the hospital yourself. At least you don't have to worry about getting shot or blown up yourself, being in America.

Repeat that about 10000 times. Then talk to me about "Marco Polo," and send Donald Rumsfeld to explain how "freedom is messy."

There's bleeding heart liberalism and pacifism, and there's borderline sociopathic blindness to the consequences of war.

Like I said, our invasion of Afghanistan was absolutely essential. Our invasion of Iraq was immoral and a mistake.

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#109
In reply to #106

Re: Do Engineers Make Good Terrorists?

05/27/2014 5:50 PM

You almost lost me at, "then you can watch them scream......" But I stuck it.

As far as Cheney and his connection with haliburton, if me was going to overspend for a product, at the very least it should be on time and perform, not like our healthcare website roll out.

As far as your opinion of invading Iraq, that is only an opinion, just like mine is just an opinion of invading Iraq.

It all could have been avoided, IF Saddam would have followed the resolutions immediately and consistently. But he did, and as with war, there are profit-takers, of which I'm not totally against, If they have a product that performs.

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#121
In reply to #102

Re: Do Engineers Make Good Terrorists?

05/28/2014 7:54 AM

Lynn, let's play a what if game shall we? what if Saddam really did smuggle everything out just prior to the invasion. And further we (the US) watched him do it, and we TOLD him we were watching him do it to remind him that we weren't his tin pot neighbors, and we had resources he couldn't even imagine. And we allowed it to happen unmolested simply because we preferred the "devil we know" (assad) have them than him and we didn't want the casualties that would happen if they were used, or even spread by an air attack on the convoys. Now suppose that the inspectors really did find evidence that there had been recent activity, or even evidence that was iffy. Would it not have been possible that Blix was pressured to claim that no evidence was found so that there would not be pressure to continue looking for the missing WMD's until they were found? That might expose the fact that we knew where they were all along and then it becomes a political problem that had it's roots in the need to minimize casualties (the road to hell is paved with good intentions no?). Is it not possible that Bush did not fight the liberal claims that no WMD's existed because any proof to the contrary would ultimately expose the decision to allow them to be moved? Bush might not have been well spoken, but one thing he was not was stupid. He was a very calculating person and was surrounded by cold warriors of the first water. He was also a very honorable man. But any exposure of that decision would have EXPANDED and EXTENDED the war to include Syria, and that would have torn the alliance asunder. So would it not make sense then that he felt it better to fall on his sword politically than to try to fight the accusations? Wasn't El Baradi (sp?) later implicated in being part of the pakistani nuclear weapons/ ballistic missile proliferation ring, which included Iraq? You don't think he knew where the bodies were buried?

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#124
In reply to #121

Re: Do Engineers Make Good Terrorists?

05/28/2014 9:48 AM

There are way too many what-ifs in there. Starting with, what was being moved? Again, there are many things it could have been - riches for one thing, evidence of crimes against humanity or Iraq's neighbors for another.

I have no trouble contemplating the whole consequences of military action. I know when I see Bruce Willis blow up something in a movie that we're not seeing the blood splatters, smelling the burned fuel or flesh, feeling the heat of the blast, tasting the dust of the rubble, dealing with the long-term aftermath. There are no cries of anguish, no PTSD, no TBIs, no amputees.

I have a high bar to justify the use of military force. Mere suspicion - and that's all we had at the time against Saddam! Doesn't suffice. I guess your bar is much lower.

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#108
In reply to #99

Re: Do Engineers Make Good Terrorists?

05/27/2014 5:45 PM

Completely compliant?

Didn't read the same report I did, did you? I mean the one cited right here on this thread. Cause in NO PLACE, EVER, did that report say they were "Completely compliant". In fact, in the first five paragraphs it made it absolutely clear that they were deliberately delaying inspections, and only giving way to the process under threat of potential military action.

Exactly whose report did you read, anyway?

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#111
In reply to #108

Re: Do Engineers Make Good Terrorists?

05/27/2014 5:57 PM

The inspectors were denied nowhere, but yes there were delays in some cases.

The war was allegedly fought to eliminate Iraq's WMDs. There was no hard evidence of WMDs in Iraq, just a rather fond suspicion coupled with a great deal of frustration with Saddam.

We killed 10's or 100's of thousands of innocent people on that pathetic justification.

We didn't invade to eliminate Iraq's WMDs, because as far as we knew they didn't have any. We invaded because certain powerful chickenhawks wanted us to.

Saddam was scum and the world's better without him. But did we have to be so unbelievably stupid about it?

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#113
In reply to #111

Re: Do Engineers Make Good Terrorists?

05/27/2014 8:11 PM

What?

delay can be as good as denying.

An excerpt:

"Baghdad agreed to these conditions but for eight years deceived, obstructed, and threatened international inspectors sent to dismantle and verify the destruction of its banned programs. "

http://www.armscontrol.org/act/2002_10/iraqspecialoct02

Ok, there was a delay,

So, could you share with us why the delay......

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#123
In reply to #113

Re: Do Engineers Make Good Terrorists?

05/28/2014 9:36 AM

I think you know my answer already. If the goal is to ensure that Iraq has no WMD, then an inspection regime will accomplish that goal. At the time of the invasion, the investigators were allowed to do what they wanted.

We invaded because Saddam has been a pain in the ass, not because he wasn't cooperating at the time. Given the two choices: continue inspections which were at the time going undeniably well; or bust up the place, kill thousands ourselves, destroy the lives of 10's of thousands of American warfighters, enable the killing of 100's of thousands of Iraqis because we didn't have a clue about the what-happens-next part, create a power vacuum that was predictably filled by Iran, lose the amazing cultural heritage of Iraq and squander the worldwide goodwill generated by 9-11; the path of least resistance was the clear choice.

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#125
In reply to #123

Re: Do Engineers Make Good Terrorists?

05/28/2014 9:48 AM

even though I see items where we can agree upon, the justification on invading Iraq we have reached an impasse. And I don't believe we can ever resolve our positions without actually having hard evidence to change either of our views one way or the other.

With that said, I cordially bid you adieu.

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#154
In reply to #123

Re: Do Engineers Make Good Terrorists?

05/28/2014 5:20 PM

Back in the late 1980's to early 90's, I worked for the Dept of Def. There were things we knew (were told or could piece together) that the general public had no clue about. If we step up to the level of President, you should know that there are many things that are known at that level, that we never hear about. I also don't think the general public should be privy to this information. Because we don't have all the facts, we should back our presidents when they make decisions.

GWB was not my first choice for president, but I support him when it comes to the defense of our country. That's because I have no idea what he knows and I trust that he'll make the right decision.

I think we should all consider this for the past presidents as well as the ones in our future.

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#155
In reply to #154

Re: Do Engineers Make Good Terrorists?

05/28/2014 5:29 PM

It sure sounds like we have a foolish commander in chief when the president repeatedly confesses that he first gets his intel on the evening news

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#156
In reply to #154

Re: Do Engineers Make Good Terrorists?

05/28/2014 5:40 PM

When we're talking about sending a limited force somewhere for a limited purpose, I agree. When we're talking about invading and occupying an entire nation for X years, I profoundly disagree! The case must be made, and it should be air-tight, or at least look that way on the surface.

I guess that's why I bear no respect whatsoever for Bush, Cheney, or any other neo-cons. They all have records of accomplishment, but their performance between 2003 and 2008 cancels any pride they should take in their prior careers. Colin Powell resigned rather than work under in that looney bin.

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#157
In reply to #156

Re: Do Engineers Make Good Terrorists?

05/28/2014 5:43 PM

Under that criteria,........ We never would have in been involved in the European theater in WWII

Plus the actually problem was not addressed. When we were in the first war, if we would have invested in the infrastructure of Iraq (schools), which the costs would have been small........ The second war may not have happened either..... But that is just an opinion.

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#158
In reply to #157

Re: Do Engineers Make Good Terrorists?

05/28/2014 5:47 PM

THEY declared war on US first. That's about as airtight as you can get.

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#159
In reply to #158

Re: Do Engineers Make Good Terrorists?

05/28/2014 7:50 PM

Lynn, true, months prior to December 7th, 1941, the agreement was with Britain, that if drawn into WWII, the initial concentration would be the European theater.

Interesting enough, hitler declaring war against the US was only a technicality that hitler wanted to avoid due to the axis agreement. Other than that, Hitler went out of his way, not to let that happen.

And again, noncompliance of the resolutions Saddam was warned. It's just that the UN has no leadership to put bite in the consequences of the resolution from the surrender agreement from 1991.

http://www.un.org/News/dh/iraq/res-iraq-07mar03-en-rev.pdf

A lot of conflicting bs from the UN, a lot like some talking points here.

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#101
In reply to #96

Re: Do Engineers Make Good Terrorists?

05/27/2014 4:14 PM

What evidence is there to make it reasonable to assume Syria possessed WMD in around the mid 1990's?

If that's reasonable, why, then, is it not reasonable to assume that Saddam had them? Saddam displayed the behaviour of a guilty man (yes, it doesn't make him guilty, but leads to reasonable suspicion), You your self indicate that Iraq sent a lot of something to Syria in 2003. Why is it not reasonable to assume that was WMD. Again, there is may be no hard evidence, but why does that behaviour coupled with Saddam's previous behaviour of delaying weapon inspectors and not fully complying with UN resolutions not make it reasonable to suspect those shipments to be WMDs?

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#103
In reply to #101

Re: Do Engineers Make Good Terrorists?

05/27/2014 4:38 PM

Syria chemical weapons program. The cite indicates activity started in the late 1970s. (You're welcome; you can do this searching too.)

It's not reasonable to assume that Saddam still had significant WMDs or programs because we were over-flying the place daily and bombing it once per week, on average, for 10 years.

It's not reasonable to assume Iraq was rushing WMDs out because

1) There's no reason to think that whatever was being moved was WMD, other than, those who supported the invasion wished they were.

2) The UN inspectors found nothing.

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#105
In reply to #103

Re: Do Engineers Make Good Terrorists?

05/27/2014 4:44 PM

1) There's no reason to think that whatever was being moved was WMD, other than, those who supported the invasion wished they were.

again, it really means nothing, and is only speculation for your talking point.

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#12

Re: Do Engineers Make Good Terrorists?

05/22/2014 3:26 AM

I think the question should be: Do Terrorists Make Good Engineers?

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#14
In reply to #12

Re: Do Engineers Make Good Terrorists?

05/22/2014 5:50 AM

Possibly.

There are things that suggest they have high job satisfaction and are very devoted to their work....just look at the number that do that job their entire life.... never choosing to retire....working right up to their last day....

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#93
In reply to #14

Re: Do Engineers Make Good Terrorists?

05/27/2014 1:34 PM

Do dedicated, hard working people make good engineers?

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#16

Re: Do Engineers Make Good Terrorists?

05/22/2014 7:57 AM

It could be the pool of people in which you have to recruit from. From the what it could find the population in most of those countries is high with science and engineering degrees. From a UN data base what countries that were listed most better then 25% of the population. Saudi Arabia listed at 35.8 %

https://data.undp.org/dataset/Graduates-in-science-and-engineering/iv2t-v9bw

I maybe also that pay for engineers is low in these countries due to the abundance of engineers. Which recruiters for these terrorist prey upon for there knowledge and skills. Because they are dissatisfied with their life style after obtaining an education.

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#17

Re: Do Engineers Make Good Terrorists?

05/22/2014 8:20 AM

The fundamental definition of a terrorist is someone who uses violence indescriminantly especially on non-combatants, to terrorize a populace to undermine support of the terrorist's enemy. It is one of many guerrilla warfare techniques, but not the only one. Guerrilla warfare can also be practiced only on combatants to put terror into the hearts of the soldiers to undermine their will to fight. the difference between a Guerrilla warrior and a terrorist therefore is who terror is used upon. People use the word indescriminately and the meaning gets blurred. secondly engineering science arose out of the manufacture and design of seige engines and weapons design, so the field is essential to warfare. Further effective guerrilla warfare requires unconventional thinking, strong planning ability, and cleverness to be effective, also keys to being an effective engineer.

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#19
In reply to #17

Re: Do Engineers Make Good Terrorists?

05/22/2014 9:15 AM

This is interesting, but the definition to which you subscribe, works only from the points of the observer and/or perpetrator. The victims are unable to differentiate the terror they feel from a terrorist bomb or one dropped by a uniformed military. I have had arguments with people over this but I never get an answer when I ask,"Should I have felt less afraid of the bombs because they were being dropped by an official military organization, back when I was a boy growing up in London during WW2?" This was, in effect, indiscriminate bombing because they lacked the ability to be precise. I'm don't know if it was better that we had warning or not.

There are people who deny that the drones are terrorist weapons, and yet they meet all of the definitions except that we are doing it.

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#20
In reply to #19

Re: Do Engineers Make Good Terrorists?

05/22/2014 9:25 AM

Hitler was most definitely a terrorist by just about any definition you could name. wearing a uniform does not automatically change the definition.

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#160
In reply to #19

Re: Do Engineers Make Good Terrorists?

08/03/2014 5:27 AM

I totally agree with you.Terrorists are people who strike at the enemy ,without giving them a fair chance to flight/fight.The enemy can be combatant or civilian,but dealing in such inhumane way is the only characteristic of a terrorist.

The meanest achievement of terrorism is that they have brought down the state forces to their level.Now they can only outdo each other.With drones being commercialised ,things are going to get pretty tough.

To be a suicide bomber you dont need an engineer.A engineer will be differentiated only in skillful jobs.Engineers however are may be more unemployed ,too many in number compared to other trades and may be more excited about the prospect of tinkering forbidden devices and mechanisms.So not going into the moral ,economic aspect ,The answer to this question is yes

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#161
In reply to #160

Re: Do Engineers Make Good Terrorists?

08/03/2014 10:34 AM

Engineers are trained to design,manufacture,operate,maintain,service even invent new things. So they are good in every aspect of life.

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