Winds of Change Blow Ductless

I guess this is talking about heating systems, apologies if I misunderstood.

Assuming heating systems, I have never seen a ducted system in Germany, simply never. I am sure there are some somewhere.....

In the UK, the people I knew that had them changed rapidly to a hot water based system many years ago.

What I don't like about ducted systems personally are that sounds from one room are heard in other rooms, farts and sex for example (hopefully not together!!!). Also people with allergies and the like, are often badly affected by the way dust is moved around a lot.

I don't like houses that ONLY have underfloor heating either as in those days between winter and spring or autumn, the weather is variable and even the fastest most modern underfloor system simply cannot adjust fast enough....

Therefore it must also have a few radiators for use in those variable times I find......a good system has both and uses the underfloor as the basis and the radiators to handle the variables.....

But who pays for that??? Many people are simply not interested simply because you need two different temperatures of water, or run them separately or something, or even have two boilers...not a simple problem....

Which is one of the many reasons I still like radiators, even though they are an eyesore, but I always dimension them for around 4 x the needed (plumbers calculation) size, this gives a very rapid response when needed and in a fully insulated house, still very economical.....the best selection that I know of.....though I am not very modern, so something else out there may also be good... lets hear!

I believe ductless heatpump systems are more suited for small area applications as compared to the regular ducted whole house or building applications. Each zones defined by a dedicated air handling and control unit on a multiple zone application of a ductless system are limited by its distance from the main outside compressor units by its individual gas piping lengths. The single compressor unit has to be placed at the center and almost equidistant to every zones in that installation is one main disadvantage of the ductless application..

Hmmm, if that is a necessity, it seems like simply using the same amount of tubing that is required for the longest run, on all runs, and simply making big loops with the excess, would be an easy solution.

Looping excess tubing length is a constraint too since the total length of tubings are limited or governed by the the type of gas and compressor size, or capacity..

It seems like the physical placement of the compressor unit will be the main concern, that needs to be first addressed or decided functionally or aesthetically since it has to be outside. If the individual rooms, (say 4 rooms) where the 4 zones are going to be installed are situated around the perimeter of the house, the most logical placement of the compressor will be on the roof, but is the possible? If the rooms are all on side of the building, the placement will be on that side, possibly mounted somewhere or along on that particular side of the wall.

I don't follow how total length of tubing might be a constraint outside the cost of the tubing and the additional refrigerant. If head loss were the concern, increasing the tubing diameter would be a sure fix. Once again, that increases the cost of the tubing and the amount of refrigerant, but those are constraint on the ability of the system so much as costs that need to be accounted for when comparing to a ducted system. In the end, individual jobs will differ in whether insulated duct work or lines for refrigerant are less expensive.
It seems like ductless does have a big advantage when it comes to insulation. Even if a set up with long refrigerant lines ends up costing more up front, not having cold air piped through the sweltering attic might provide a quick return on the money.

The refrigerant plumbing does not have to be even close to the same length for each zone.

Why have only one outdoor unit?

Why heat the whole house?

Wal --

I have not seen/ read anyone claiming that plumbing have to be near the condenser... My point is only For a more economical and efficient system application.. like the resulting air quality, noise, even air distribution or air exchanges..

Depending on the size of the area and how it is use, it is the ductless system's AH units that are limited on how much an area it can properly and effectively cool or heat...the noise level in the room, cold spots, humidity level, etc. Again it will be dependent on application and usage requirements of an area!

Similarly, Why heat the whole house if not needed? ... Why not if required by the application? You can have several different zones with one compressor... Again a question answerable only by the user(s). The satisfaction level, needs and how economical, efficient and comfortable they will be at the end...

"So what's the appeal of these systems over older, more traditional unitary systems?"

Could it be simple installation costs and who can do it?

The last ducting quote I heard of was for my brothers garage. $8000 for a single line four vent run ~32' long coming off of an already in place updraft furnace.

It involved about $300 - $400 in materials and the contractor figured they could knock it out in half a day with only two guys on site.

Bid seven, win one. Nice work if you can get it.