British Navy Fighting Somali Pirates With...Email?

Well,

This is definately some positive news. Hats off to the Royal Navy.

This whole pirate issue gets me to wondering about possible defensive methods that could be adopted to vulnerable commercial ships. I recall one incident of a cruise ship using fire hoses to fight, I think successfully, against pirate boarders at sea.

I guess there are legal considerations in this; but with the right treaties and laws much of that should be possible to overcome.

I would be thinking about what could be done with the structures at the ship gunwales that grappling hooks are able to grab onto.

Would it be practical to temporarily electrify them? With a layer of damp salt all over everything could enough power be generated to raise voltage to lethal levels with much of the energy leaking to ground through the salt layer? Could the electrified "handrails" be segmented and switched on and off selectively like the lights in an old fashioned lighted sign with moving bands of light?

Ed Weldon

I guess you guys are right. Sadly it seems we've regressed 200 years to a time when every commercial ship, at least in Mediterranean, Indian Ocean and East Asian waters had to be capable of mounting a serious defense appropriate to it's monetary value. The problem we have now is that money for ransoms only makes the problem worse. While this approach may be the most economical the political and social consequences are completely unacceptable in the kind of world we want.

I think that the idea of naval ships patrolling the area will begin to get burdensome for the participants when the costs begin to outweigh the training benefits. It's like trying to deal with mosquitoes by killing them one by one and waiting for the species to evolve away.

Most of these victims are large and pretty stable weapons platforms. Standoff capability is the answer. Sounds to me like a golden opportunity for a responsible weapons manufacturer to produce the right weapons system. And I mean complete system here, not just the hardware but also trained operators and legal structures to allow equipped vessels to pass through ports of entry as well as prevent dissemination of the equipment to unauthorized recipients.

What I mean here is that the destination nations (read ultimate customers) for armed merchant ships get to decide which properly licensed systems get to enter their ports. This would enable them to say "no" to arms manufacturers that care little who buys their weapons as long as the trade boosts their profits. In other words we don't want cheap long range heavy assault weapons with nifty electronic aiming systems to be available to the pirates also.

I wonder also if the implementation of a better satellite based traffic control system might be possible. The ability of such a system to warn ship captains of the approach of a "bogey" such as a pirate mother ship could be extremely valuable especially at night. While this would be of more limited use during overcast weather it would still give captains an additional edge against the pirates as they could choose their courses based on weather observations and forecasts.

Ed Weldon

I'd think security afloat teams would be appropriate and cost effective.

Five or six mini-guns and a central fire control may put a damper on pirating.

You guys are thinking...

I agree with Ed, that the first thing to be able to do is recognize the enemy.. by registration and electronic beacon. (bad guys don't pass the test)

Secondly, if the insurance companies are losing 100 million a year to the pirates and it is escalating, the maybe they would spring for a dedicated geosync satellite, focused on the region, but able to alter angle and focus to specific targets.

what about mini-sub escorts, that patrol a region 1-2 miles around a large container ship like that. If there is money to be made pirating, there is money to be made escorting.. and for sure you can hear the pirate powerboats coming with modern underwater listening technologies. and of course, the pirates won't know you are there, and their weapons are completely ineffective against submarines.

I know that these container ships are unarmed.. but that doesn't mean that the escorts would have to be... but all they really need to do is interdict, so probably small armoured gunboats would also do the trick... working out of a port in South Africa, or whereever.

and lastly... to catch a thief.. deal with the root problem.. why are there somali pirates in the first place? so either pay them to guard the ships, while you help them with their problems at home, or make deals with them to trade their arms for shipments of food, building materials, and books.. thereby slowly disarming them, and helping them to build some civilized infrastructure.

Not many people engage in violent and dangerous activities because they enjoy it, but because they don't have enough options. Sure some warlords and powermongers get off on the power and money... but again..given positive options for change, and negative options for motivation, there can be alternatives to wars and running battles over decades with pirates.

but I bet there are arms manufacturers lining up to help the somali pirates purchase arms... so maybe if that were stopped..made illegal... sanctioned against...

every animal in nature has its own natural defense systems, so it is kind of dumb to have these container ships without defensive measures of any kind... even methods of repelling unauthorized boarding... I dunno.. remote operated water cannons (a good idea for fire anyway)...something...

sound cannons (while ship crew wear protection) but should be integral with the ship, for any small portable weapon can also be stolen by the pirates and used on another target.

what about the equivalent of a high voltage 10 foot fence.. attached (but insulated from) the gunwales of the container ship.. to prevent boarding. surely that will help with the grappling hooks..

and maybe retrofit a 'panic room' where the ships controls, video surveillance, and communications center can also be hard wired in, with secure conduits.(or wireless control to the main systems)

If you must arm someone on board the container ship.. retrofit a secure sniper pit on top of the mast..and arm with one of those super-rifle thingies from afghanistan.. with a mile+ range.... night vision/IR... wouldn't take too much to dissuade... much more range than an RPG or whatever the pirates have... again the sniper could be part of an escort team, not part of the regular crew. a good sniper, well stocked, secure and stable shooting place.. near ideal conditions for sniping.... good luck pirates. and if the pirates do board somehow... make a system for destroying the rifle/ammo before it can be captured, (such as eject it into the sea.)

perhaps also the container ships could have smoke systems.. that completely cloud the region around the ship, near the water level..making it hard for the small pirate craft to see to board.

Chris

the first thing to be able to do is recognize the enemy

Easier to require unannounced guest to observe appropriate protocol, in effect no surprises

and their weapons are completely ineffective against submarines.

We can't be referring to the same resourceful people, put your glasses back on. I'd give an example were it not that some could use it for naught.

Not many people engage in violent and dangerous activities because they enjoy it, but because they don't have enough options

I have real concern about your perception or we may not be discussing the same groups of people.

retrofit a 'panic room' where the ships controls, video surveillance, and communications center can also be hard wired in, with secure conduits.(or wireless control to the main systems)

An armored fire control center including a secondary "con"

If you must arm someone on board the container ship.. retrofit a secure sniper pit on top of the mast..and arm with one of those super-rifle thingies from afghanistan.. with a mile+ range.... night vision/IR... wouldn't take too much to dissuade

Mini gun with fire control can intercept missiles/rockets etc..

Welcome to the Jungle... G'N'R

"In the jungle
Welcome to the jungle
Watch it bring you to your shun n,n,n,n,,n,n,,n,n,n,,n,n,n knees, knees
I wanna watch you bleed"

This is just me.. I am a pacifist, and I believe wierd things..

When I was taught christian philosophies, i was taught that killing was wrong.

I have given up christianity, as I don't personally believe that if there was a jesus, that he was anymore of a god than you or I... but I do believe in Heaven.. been there..

and I don't believe killing will ever solve anything.. I don't believe that the incarnation of divinity comes to earth with an act of killing.. better to stand up, and say to your attacker, please take my life, if you are so much in need. Here I am, rape me, kill me and mine, and take our belongings. Take my life, if that is what you need.

and only through such an example will anyone ever learn.

It isn't about jesus...its about life.

There is NO solution for violence, except to die. There is no solution for thievery except giving. There is no solution to death, except eternal life.

I apologize for 'going there'.. to such an non PC statement.. but just so you know. thats me. naively believing in life and goodness.

Chris

Murder and wanton killing is wrong...agreed

Self defense is different.

Not that this would describe you but I've seen self proclaimed pacifists change their spots when faced with protracted grievous infliction or possibility of being eaten.

I believe meekness is an accurate description and that's fine.

I know I shall meet the one whom calls himself "I AM", a shame you abandoned faith. You can't stop being a Christian anymore than you can stop being your father's son

I did not abandon faith.. it is just clarified for me.. i had an OBE... met people who had no bodies, and loved completely... it was an expanding experience... closer to 'celestine prophecy' which came a few years later.. like the 'soul group' in that book.

I just didn't need the biblical man anymore.. lots of good lessons and ideas there.. but just a story after all. I take my wisdom where i find it. I shy away from irrational thinking as much as the next person.. but this experience really crystallized and seeded my own spiritual growth.

Faith.. the positive expectation of life, love, and divine providence.. I think about every day, and practice as much as my simple skills and whimsical motivations allow. To me.. faith is Gratitude.

I agree with you about pacifists.. and fear in general... one never knows unless they've been tested under fire, which I haven't, at that level. but. I've been tested in many other ways.. and I have my resolutions and commitments.

Chris

The US Navy Seals has a fast deployment equipment (NAVSOC) such as the MK-V SOC probably up to MK-VII now...........they should start doing training operations with live ammo and live targets in this area.

And actually see and verify how fast they can deploy.

That is if you need something blown up overnight.

phoenix911

I'm much in favor of the old 106mm recoilless rifle. Not only does it fire HE rounds, but AP and fleshett rounds that can be timed to exploded immediately or with a half second delay. Effective range is about a quarter mile, further on a stable platform. A few ships with one of these fore and aft, a well trained crew of three each, and you have a real deterent the first time you light'em up.

50 cal. auto. would be the smallest effictive weapon I could reccomend. You have to keep them far enough away that the RPGs they have are useless. By the time they get close enough for small arms fire, yer gonna have a blood bath.

Congratulations to the American Navy. A fitting end to an attempt at piracy on the high seas.

Nobody wants to see people killed, but if that is what was necessary to gain the release of an exceptionally brave Captain then so be it.

To all the brave men of the crew, my best wishes. To the families of the dead pirates, my sympathies. Maybe you can convince your other sons that the pleasure of driving around in a great big four wheel drive luxury car is not worth a life.