Previous in Forum: Do 4-20ma Can Be Superimposed On RS-485 Cable   Next in Forum: Labview Movement Control of ATS-545 ThermoStream
Close
Close
Close
13 comments
Rating: Comments: Nested
Participant

Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 3

Needle Valve in Steam Line

03/25/2015 2:12 PM

I have a pressure transmitter without manifold used in steam line (528 C and 220 bar). I need to use a block valve to isolate the instrument, can I use a Needle valve or should use Ball valve?

Register to Reply
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.

Good Answers:

These comments received enough positive votes to make them "good answers".

"Almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, vote them!
Guru
United Kingdom - Member - Indeterminate Engineering Fields - Control Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: In the bothy, 7 chains down the line from Dodman's Lane level crossing, in the nation formerly known as Great Britain. Kettle's on.
Posts: 32175
Good Answers: 839
#1

Re: Needle valve in steam line

03/25/2015 2:16 PM

A ball valve gives a positive indication and is quicker to operate.

__________________
"Did you get my e-mail?" - "The biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place" - George Bernard Shaw, 1856
Register to Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Guru
Hobbies - CNC - New Member Hobbies - DIY Welding - New Member Engineering Fields - Electromechanical Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 23647
Good Answers: 420
#2

Re: Needle Valve in Steam Line

03/25/2015 8:49 PM

Ball valve is the most common.

It can be done quickly and be easily locked out.

__________________
“ When people get what they want, they are often surprised when they get what they deserve " - James Wood
Register to Reply
4
Guru

Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
Posts: 662
Good Answers: 49
#3

Re: Needle Valve in Steam Line

03/26/2015 12:15 AM

At these pressures, a needle valve is a "better" choice for two reasons-

First- it is easier to control the shut-down due to the much smaller "exposed" face- which also makes the fabrication easier- cutting the sales price.

Second- since "rapid" action of a shut-down valve is NOT critical for this type of shut- off valve BUT the IMPACT of the steam on the instrument if a rapid opening ball valve was used (immediately sending full steam pressure into and onto the instrument) could be VERY detrimental. NO such risk is present when the needle valve is opened.

__________________
NO MATTER HOW WELL YOU HAVE DONE SO FAR, ALWAYS TRY TO BE BETTER TOMORROW.
Register to Reply Good Answer (Score 4)
Guru

Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Mossel Bay, SA
Posts: 777
Good Answers: 21
#4

Re: Needle Valve in Steam Line

03/26/2015 4:21 AM

I like Energygod's answer, (but maybe I'm swayed by his looks). If you had a manifold, you'd be using needle valves, but the manifold is not really purposed for line isolation of the instrument. Normal line isolation would be ball or gate valve.

At your stated operating press and temp you need to to choose well ! I haven't had to do so for some time now, but I remember 'Whitey' being a brand name of choice at one time, with which I had good service and no complaints/failures in the 1/2" and 1/4" sizes.

Register to Reply
Guru
United Kingdom - Member - Indeterminate Engineering Fields - Control Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: In the bothy, 7 chains down the line from Dodman's Lane level crossing, in the nation formerly known as Great Britain. Kettle's on.
Posts: 32175
Good Answers: 839
#5

Re: Needle Valve in Steam Line

03/26/2015 6:35 AM

There should be a datasheet for valves that may be used at that particular tag number on the Utilities Line Diagram [ULD]. That document needs to be followed.

here should be a mechanical hook-up drawing for that type of instrument at that particular tag number on the ULD. That document needs to be followed.

__________________
"Did you get my e-mail?" - "The biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place" - George Bernard Shaw, 1856
Register to Reply
4
Guru
Hobbies - CNC - New Member

Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Lost Wages Nevada
Posts: 1578
Good Answers: 55
#6

Re: Needle Valve in Steam Line

03/26/2015 9:36 AM

On all the steam lines I have ever installed, we always used a NEEDLE style valve for gauge isolation and a GATE style for main line shut off.

  1. At your pressure of 220 bar (3190 psi) I would suggest a needle valve
  2. With a needle valve, you just need to slightly open the seat and you will get your pressure reading. You don't get a fast inrush of pressure!

Good luck!

__________________
Though it does seem he frequently has a Swiss Army knife or Leatherman and a roll of duct tape with him.
Register to Reply Good Answer (Score 4)
2
Guru
Safety - Hazmat - New Member United States - US - Statue of Liberty - New Member Engineering Fields - Chemical Engineering - Old Hand

Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Lubbock, Texas
Posts: 14331
Good Answers: 162
#7

Re: Needle Valve in Steam Line

03/26/2015 2:44 PM

For that kind of pressure, you need a high quality gate valve for a primary blocking valve (should be located on the steam generator), a secondary gate valve to provide safety factor near the instrument when removing the gauge for replacement or off-station calibration. A third valve for final isolation is used also, and this one should be a needle valve, but do not overtighten this when closing or the seat/valve body will be damaged, rendering it useless. Actually, the same rule about over tightening gate valves apply, but it takes a lot more torque to damage these. Underclosure of gate valves will lead to steam of this pressure and temperature cutting the valve, again rendering it useless.

__________________
If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Just build a better one.
Register to Reply Good Answer (Score 2)
Member

Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 6
#8

Re: Needle Valve in Steam Line

03/31/2015 12:32 PM

I hope you are using something like this.

it can be made of steel, cooper or inox, then connect the valve, this way you protect your instrument

Register to Reply
Guru
Hobbies - CNC - New Member Hobbies - DIY Welding - New Member Engineering Fields - Electromechanical Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 23647
Good Answers: 420
#9
In reply to #8

Re: Needle Valve in Steam Line

03/31/2015 1:15 PM

pig tails for gauges yes..... but at 220 bar, I would not go with copper.

__________________
“ When people get what they want, they are often surprised when they get what they deserve " - James Wood
Register to Reply
Guru
Safety - Hazmat - New Member United States - US - Statue of Liberty - New Member Engineering Fields - Chemical Engineering - Old Hand

Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Lubbock, Texas
Posts: 14331
Good Answers: 162
#10
In reply to #9

Re: Needle Valve in Steam Line

03/31/2015 1:46 PM

I have sort of forgotten the reason for the tubing loops on gauges...does this reduce hammering of the gauge during opening, or does it limit the impact of particles in the fluid? Certainly not copper at 220 bar, that needs to be a good quality steel tubing, possibly high temperature stainless steel, with a pressure rating that is appropriate, it may have to be a higher wall thickness than standard tubings.

__________________
If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Just build a better one.
Register to Reply
Guru
Hobbies - CNC - New Member Hobbies - DIY Welding - New Member Engineering Fields - Electromechanical Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 23647
Good Answers: 420
#11
In reply to #10

Re: Needle Valve in Steam Line

03/31/2015 1:57 PM

reduces hammer

__________________
“ When people get what they want, they are often surprised when they get what they deserve " - James Wood
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
Posts: 662
Good Answers: 49
#12
In reply to #10

Re: Needle Valve in Steam Line

03/31/2015 6:32 PM

The loop creates a pocket for condensate to form- protecting the gauge from exposure to the steam (and its heat) while also providing a cushion for any sudden pressure changes.

__________________
NO MATTER HOW WELL YOU HAVE DONE SO FAR, ALWAYS TRY TO BE BETTER TOMORROW.
Register to Reply
Guru
Safety - Hazmat - New Member United States - US - Statue of Liberty - New Member Engineering Fields - Chemical Engineering - Old Hand

Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Lubbock, Texas
Posts: 14331
Good Answers: 162
#13
In reply to #12

Re: Needle Valve in Steam Line

04/01/2015 9:02 AM

Understood. Obviously, this really depends on a proper sealing of the pressure gauge to the pigtail loop, and also the loop to the sampling valves. It makes one have an even greater appreciation of all that is required even on low to medium pressure plants, much more so on the high pressure ones.

__________________
If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Just build a better one.
Register to Reply
Register to Reply 13 comments

Good Answers:

These comments received enough positive votes to make them "good answers".

"Almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, vote them!
Copy to Clipboard

Users who posted comments:

energygod (2); Hector.Argumedo (1); Hilton (1); James Stewart (3); Original_Macgyver (1); phoenix911 (3); PWSlack (2)

Previous in Forum: Do 4-20ma Can Be Superimposed On RS-485 Cable   Next in Forum: Labview Movement Control of ATS-545 ThermoStream

Advertisement