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Baseball and Cricket

11/11/2015 10:46 AM

From The Times newspaper today:

"In the quest to hit the ball ever harder, farther and more efficiently in white-ball cricket, a number of England's leading one-day batsmen have been working with Julian Wood, a power-hitting coach who has adopted the methodology employed by baseball coaches to improve a batsman's ability to hit boundaries. By measuring a player's hand speed and the pace at which the ball leaves the bat, Wood calculates the power that a batsman is capable of generating ... For the Twenty20 generation, Wood feels that adding elements of baseball-style hitting to a solid cricketing technique can significantly enhance the power in a batsman's game... Wood makes his calculations by standing at the end of a net, feeding a bowling machine and encouraging the batsman to smash the ball back towards him. Sensibly, he wears a helmet for protection. Two readings are taken by a radar gun, either side of the point of contact. As the batsman swings, the speed of his hands is measured, with a typical reading for a professional player at 85-95mph. A similar measurement is then taken once he has made contact - the "ball exit speed", or the rate at which the ball is travelling. If the hand speed is 85mph and the ball leaves the bat at the same speed, the batsman has a 100 per cent power transfer ratio, a particularly clean strike, but more often there is a discrepancy between the two. Wood has calculated, for example, that a 90-yard boundary requires a ball exit speed of 83mph, a useful target figure for his batsmen to work towards."

I can understand that baseball hitting might be related to cricket ball hitting and i can understand the interest in movement speeds, but am I alone in believing that the concept of power transfer ratio is complete BS?

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#1

Re: Baseball and cricket

11/11/2015 10:55 AM

" If the hand speed is 85mph and the ball leaves the bat at the same speed, the batsman has a 100 per cent power transfer ratio..."

D'uh, NO... WALOOB

I'm with you...
He can't equate speed and power unless the two objects have the same mass, which admittedly, with the relatively heavy cricket ball may be a reasonable approximation.

Anyhow, hand speed is prob' not the same as bat speed. I would imagine the bat is used as a lever to whip round generating extra speed.

Del

PS.This blog entry clearly illustrates that speed and power are not the same thing

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#2

Re: Baseball and Cricket

11/11/2015 1:50 PM

I'm pretty sure a batter can hit a ball farther (faster) than when it's pitched, so most batters must be operating at more than "100 percent power transfer ratio".

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#3

Re: Baseball and Cricket

11/11/2015 2:25 PM

It doesn't sound like Mr Wood (great name for a batsman, btw!) is an engineer. I think he is using phrase 'power transfer ratio' in a non-rigorous way simply to create a 'figure of merit' for determining how much improvement a batter can achieve. The typical sportsman doesn't care about the nit-picky details of how much power is transferred, nor how efficient the transfer is. He simply wants a way of knowing how to hold and swing the bat to drive the ball farther. This at least gives a measureable quantity to help determine that.

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#7
In reply to #3

Re: Baseball and Cricket

11/12/2015 6:45 AM

Nothing wrong with creating empirical figures of merit until you start calling them something erroneous and spouting bull.
I'm a great fan of the practical and even mixing units if necessary, but one still needs to be precise about defining what you are measuring.

Del

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#4

Re: Baseball and Cricket

11/11/2015 3:40 PM

The premise is complete baloney. A batter's hands don't move anywhere near 80 mph.

There are several other editorial clinkers in that article.

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#5

Re: Baseball and Cricket

11/11/2015 11:10 PM

Tell Mr. Wood to watch the next baseball World Series. These are the games where they use radar guns to determine the speed of the ball as it is thrown by the pitcher to the batter. It is also used for the speed of the ball as it travels from the bat to it's destination. Runners speed, bat speed and several other objects that the speed of have been attempted to be determine. Who knows, maybe they even radar to clock the beer vendor!

Have him listen to a radio broadcast and look at a TV broadcast at the same time. They utilize different styles, radio is much more descriptive, of broadcasted information to overcome the lack of sight for radio listeners.

Also since the radius of the arm that the hand is attached to is shorter than the radius of the cricket bat and the arm that holds this hand the "hand speed" is not an accurate source. For an example, try to hit a golf ball as hard as you can with a wood driver and a putter. Longer radius = greater speed.

Good Luck, Old Salt

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#6

Re: Baseball and Cricket

11/12/2015 5:24 AM

I strongly suspect that Mr. Wood has a good idea what he is doing, and, that the problem with this article lies with the reporter.

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#8
In reply to #6

Re: Baseball and Cricket

11/12/2015 9:56 AM

That is a very generous point of view, but the story has been widely reported. Not all the reporters could have made the identical mistake.

This mystical power transfer ratio is spreading further, including this golf website, which states that the laws of physics do limit the PTR but then succeeds in mis-defining the coefficient of restitution. Apparently a COR of 1 means that all the energy in a collision is transferred from one object to the other.

On this other golf website it is correctly pointed out that the PTR cannot be less than 100%, since otherwise the ball would be travelling slower than the club face.

It appears that tennis has yet to succumb to the PTR, likewise football in any of the many codes.

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#9

Re: Baseball and Cricket

11/12/2015 12:24 PM

For your homework:-
"If all the power in the bat was transferred to the ball, then the bat must cease to move forward after the ball has left the bat"
Discus

Del

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#10
In reply to #9

Re: Baseball and Cricket

11/12/2015 1:06 PM

If the mass of the ball is m, and its speeds are v1 and v2 coming and going, and the mass of the bat is M, there is some speed of the bat V such that M(V-0), the change in momentum of the bat, equals m*(v1+v2) , the change in momentum of the ball.

MV = m*(v1+v2).

The center of mass of the ball + bat system is not necessarily stationary. If you reference velocities to the center of mass, the ball will rebound from the collision point at the same velocity as it entered and the bat will also rebound with its same velocity.

The batter swings the bat and in essence determines the velocity of the center of mass (taking into account the relative mass of the ball and bat). At some velocity of the bat, the final speed of the bat with respect to the batter will be zero. I assume that is your 100 percent efficiency point. It does not necessarily occur if v2 = v1, it depends on the relative mass of the ball and bat.

If the batter swings the bat harder, obviously the ball will rebound faster and the bat will continue to follow through. More energy will be transferred to the ball, but some energy will remain in the motion of the bat.

I don't see the advantage of just hitting hard enough that the bat comes to a stop.

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#12
In reply to #10

Re: Baseball and Cricket

11/12/2015 2:17 PM

Quite so. In real life the baseball batter, cricket batsman or golfer always follows through, so the power transfer is always less than 100%. The power transfer ratio as defined by velocities, on the other hand, can never be less than 100% (unless, of course, you are Mr Wood and use hand rather than bat velocities in the calculation).

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#13
In reply to #10

Re: Baseball and Cricket

11/12/2015 3:22 PM

Exactly...
My aim was to illustrate that 100% power transfer was a nonsensical concept.
You have effectively proved this by reductio ad absurdum! Showing it is nonsense.

"If the batter swings the bat harder, obviously the ball will rebound faster and the bat will continue to follow through. More energy will be transferred to the ball, but some energy will remain in the motion of the bat"

Exactly

Del

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#11
In reply to #9

Re: Baseball and Cricket

11/12/2015 1:44 PM

It depends on how far you want to throw the discus

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