Previous in Forum: Bees Sense Electric Fields of Flowers   Next in Forum: Exhaust Fan for Powder
Close
Close
Close
46 comments
Rating: Comments: Nested
The Engineer
Engineering Fields - Engineering Physics - Physics... United States - Member - NY Popular Science - Genetics - Organic Chemistry... Popular Science - Cosmology - New Member Ingeniería en Español - Nuevo Miembro - New Member

Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Albany, New York
Posts: 5060
Good Answers: 129

Op-Ed: Are We Living in a Simulated Universe?

06/02/2016 10:55 AM

Some Quotes in the News Lately

"There's a 'one in billions' chance our reality is not a simulation"-Elon Musk

"Universe Is Probably A Simulation"- Neil DeGrasse Tyson

Living in a Simulated Universe?

Recently a number of leading scientists have stated that we are most likely living in a simulation. Their logic seems sound. They point out that the universe likely has had billions of intelligent civilizations since the big bang and it is likely that at some point in each of these civilization's development they have created multiple (thousands, millions, billions, etc.) simulations of the "real universe" to make predictions. So given straight probabilities, the likelihood that we are living in a simulation as opposed to the real universe could be high as a billion to one. Thus logic dictates we are very likely living in a simulated universe.

Good Logic, Bad Premise

Scientists, Engineers and Programmers can be tough to argue with. They spend most of their time honing their logic skills to a razor sharp edge. It is hard not to admire their dexterity of thought when it comes to starting at a certain point and then following a series logical steps to a particular conclusion. To make sure their conclusion is correct, they usually will check and recheck their logic, just as you might check and recheck the lines of a program to make sure it runs correctly, or the steps of a math derivation to make sure you reach the correct solution.

Unfortunately, the best logic is powerless if it started with a bad premise. This is a very modern fallacy that seems to plague modern intellectual dialogue. Obsessing over the minutia of logic while insufficiently testing the premise it is built upon. In fact there is an overused and in this writer's opinion, annoying cliche that Scientists, Engineers and Programmers often can't see the "big picture". Ultimately this cliche has come from us technical types doggedly holding onto a conclusion that ultimately is wrong due to an insufficient or narrowly focused premise.

Bias Leads to a Bad Premise

Take the simulation argument. The logic is undeniably sound. The problem is that the assumption that all intelligent civilizations will develop similar to us is just not remotely true and is biased in an annoyingly cliched way. We humans have been making this mistake forever. When people say intelligent life will inevitably develop simulations of the universe, what is really being said is, all intelligent life must be similar to human intelligence. Ugh. This of course is Anthropocentrism, The assessment of reality through an exclusively human perspective.

Fermi Paradox

There is a great mystery in science today summed up by the Fermi Paradox. Roughly it states - With all the billions of stars in our galaxy, Earth should have been visited by intelligent species by now or should have detected intelligent species around the universe. Now people sometimes argue the vast separation in time between the existence in civilizations combined with the inevitable self destruction of intelligent civilizations is to blame, but really the mistake is we are looking for signs of ourselves around us.

Why do we expect other intelligent life to behave like ourselves? Anthropocentrism is why. We as a species have been doing this forever. Just look into it and you'll see over and over again the best minds in the world throughout history couldn't help but be seduced by Anthropocentrism.

Other Intelligent Life

To expect an intelligent species that evolved isolated from our evolutionary forces to end up thinking the same as us is absurd. Intelligent life in the universe, and it must exist given the number of exoplanets out there, could view the universe in a way we can't even comprehend and yet be just as effective as us at taming nature (which truly is what civilization is when you get down to it).

When we search the universe for intelligent alien life, we shouldn't be looking for anomalies in signals we might produce, we should be looking for statistical anomalies in the disorder of the universe in general, since intelligent life, by imposing civilization, essentially imposes order where it shouldn't naturally exist. We humans do it by building cities and roads with distinct patterns and sending out EM waves with certain patterns that shouldn't occur randomly.

Do intelligent aliens build cities? Maybe, maybe not, but they undoubtedly affect their environment somehow. Searching for statistical anomalies is how you find something when you don't know what it is you're looking for. Instead we have focused on human like signatures like radio waves, laser signals, etc. Fermi assumed intelligent aliens would explore- why? There is nothing implicit in intelligence and civilization at their deepest levels that require exploration.

Beware of Sound Logic Built Upon Bad Premises

The premise of a logical argument is its foundation. No matter how sound your logic is, if it is built upon the shaky foundation of a bad premise, don't expect your conclusion to stand for very long. This is why we humans use math and the scientific method to test for self-consistency. Math protects us from our own biases and misconceptions. That's why when ordinarily smart scientists start wandering into philosophy where the self-consistency of math isn't present, or worse, the illusion of self-consistency of math is present but not really present, speculation can be confused with truth.

That's why I don't think you should give too much thought to the idea we are living in a simulation. In my opinion, it's a conclusion, derived from excellent logic, built upon a bad premise. After all, scientists are just as susceptible to bias and a bad premise as anyone else.

Register to Reply
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.

Good Answers:

These comments received enough positive votes to make them "good answers".

"Almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, vote them!
Guru

Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: About 4000 miles from the center of the earth (+/-100 mi)
Posts: 9911
Good Answers: 1141
#1

Re: Op-Ed: Are We Living in a Simulated Universe?

06/02/2016 11:41 AM

I would think the only way to "prove" that you were part of a simulated universe is to find sum "bug", something that isn't logical, like Quantum Theory. But, then, what do I know, I'm just a simulant.

Register to Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Guru

Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 716
Good Answers: 33
#16
In reply to #1

Re: Op-Ed: Are We Living in a Simulated Universe?

06/02/2016 2:08 PM

I've been noticing bugs like that for decades. A long time ago I started asking my friends if they ever noticed things happen that could not possibly happen by the laws of physics, and roughly half of them said yes, including one very smart physics grad student who was totally flummoxed by his experience. So the universe, in my experience, makes mistakes. And these are the meaningless, accidental mistakes that a computer program might make, and the more interesting mistakes like those that an author might make in a book, like calculating the wrong amount of time that it takes to get somewhere, or suddenly being able to speak a different language. In addition, there are the very meaningful, careful, inspiring "mistakes" that we call miracles, or divine intervention. I've seen those too.

__________________
canary
Register to Reply
Guru
Safety - Hazmat - New Member United States - US - Statue of Liberty - New Member Engineering Fields - Chemical Engineering - Old Hand

Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Lubbock, Texas
Posts: 14331
Good Answers: 162
#17
In reply to #16

Re: Op-Ed: Are We Living in a Simulated Universe?

06/02/2016 2:46 PM

If you are not dead, it's just a bump on the head...what matters is what matters to you. If someone is in your life attempting to tell you what matters, it is only important if they hold power over you, or you care about them, or what they represent. For me, it is hard to allow things like distant outpost of the universe to matter, until they start hitting my on the head with space rocks that make my head hurt.

By the way, I looked up Bayes theorem on Wikipedia, and there verbose explanations also made my head hurt. If this gets any worse, I am headed off to College Station where language is simple, and heads don't hurt, unless they think about it.

__________________
If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Just build a better one.
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 42355
Good Answers: 1693
#2

Re: Op-Ed: Are We Living in a Simulated Universe?

06/02/2016 11:44 AM

If this is a simulation, I want a better life!

Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: by the beach in Florida
Posts: 33392
Good Answers: 1817
#8
In reply to #2

Re: Op-Ed: Are We Living in a Simulated Universe?

06/02/2016 1:01 PM

Don't you remember, this is what you chose for yourself....?

__________________
All living things seek to control their own destiny....this is the purpose of life
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 42355
Good Answers: 1693
#12
In reply to #8

Re: Op-Ed: Are We Living in a Simulated Universe?

06/02/2016 1:36 PM

Then, it isn't a simulation?

Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: by the beach in Florida
Posts: 33392
Good Answers: 1817
#18
In reply to #12

Re: Op-Ed: Are We Living in a Simulated Universe?

06/02/2016 3:06 PM

Oh it'sa simulation, it's only you that is real....

__________________
All living things seek to control their own destiny....this is the purpose of life
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Earth - I think.
Posts: 2143
Good Answers: 165
#3

Re: Op-Ed: Are We Living in a Simulated Universe?

06/02/2016 12:03 PM

This again? We went over this the last 3 times through the simulation!

__________________
TANSTAAFL (If you don't know what that means, Google it - yourself)
Register to Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Guru
Hobbies - Musician - Engineering Fields - Chemical Engineering - New Member Engineering Fields - Control Engineering - New Member Engineering Fields - Instrumentation Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Moses Lake, WA, USA, Thulcandra - The Silent Planet (C.S. Lewis)
Posts: 4216
Good Answers: 194
#4

Re: Op-Ed: Are We Living in a Simulated Universe?

06/02/2016 12:24 PM

"Computer, end program!" silence...

"Computer, end program!" silence...

"Computer, end program!" silence...

Well, I guess we're not in a simulation!

__________________
"Reason is not automatic. Those who deny it cannot be conquered by it. Do not count on them. Leave them alone." - Ayn Rand
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: by the beach in Florida
Posts: 33392
Good Answers: 1817
#5

Re: Op-Ed: Are We Living in a Simulated Universe?

06/02/2016 12:25 PM

This couldn't possibly be a simulation, Bayes of Roger....

__________________
All living things seek to control their own destiny....this is the purpose of life
Register to Reply
The Engineer
Engineering Fields - Engineering Physics - Physics... United States - Member - NY Popular Science - Genetics - Organic Chemistry... Popular Science - Cosmology - New Member Ingeniería en Español - Nuevo Miembro - New Member

Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Albany, New York
Posts: 5060
Good Answers: 129
#13
In reply to #5

Re: Op-Ed: Are We Living in a Simulated Universe?

06/02/2016 1:50 PM

"This is Bayes of Roger, Resistance is futile. Your life as it has been is over. From this time forward, you will service us. Fetch us a Big Mac meal, large, with a Coke....And Locutus of Roger says he wants a 6 piece nuggets with BBQ sauce....wait, hang on a second...Locutus demands Sweet and Sour and BBQ sauce as well...Locutus, I'm not sure you can get two sauces...I don't know why you need both, just choose one....because we live in a civilized world where one must chose one sauce for your order of chicken nuggets...you know what, whatever Locutus, you're such a $%#...ok, I'm back, sorry about that. So where were we...ah yes..Big Mac Meal and a 6 piece nuggets with BBQ sauce...damn it Hugh of Roger, you said you didn't want anything...you know what, never mind, we will just get it ourselves... resistance is futile and all that stuff, blah blah blah...."

Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru
Engineering Fields - Optical Engineering - Member Engineering Fields - Engineering Physics - Member Engineering Fields - Systems Engineering - Member

Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Trantor
Posts: 5363
Good Answers: 647
#6

Re: Op-Ed: Are We Living in a Simulated Universe?

06/02/2016 12:30 PM

If there were 'thousands, millions, billions' of simulations, then within any given simulation, there could be many more simulations.

The argument that we are living in a simulation is just a modern (cybernetic) version of the response given by the old woman in this famous story:

A well-known scientist (some say it was Bertrand Russell) once gave a public lecture on astronomy. He described how the earth orbits around the sun and how the sun, in turn, orbits around the center of a vast collection of stars called our galaxy. At the end of the lecture, a little old lady at the back of the room got up and said: "What you have told us is rubbish. The world is really a flat plate supported on the back of a giant tortoise."

The scientist gave a superior smile before replying, "What is the tortoise standing on?"

"You're very clever, young man. Very clever," said the old lady. "But it's turtles all the way down!"

[Via Wikipedia]

__________________
Whiskey, women -- and astrophysics. Because sometimes a problem can't be solved with just whiskey and women.
Register to Reply
The Engineer
Engineering Fields - Engineering Physics - Physics... United States - Member - NY Popular Science - Genetics - Organic Chemistry... Popular Science - Cosmology - New Member Ingeniería en Español - Nuevo Miembro - New Member

Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Albany, New York
Posts: 5060
Good Answers: 129
#11
In reply to #6

Re: Op-Ed: Are We Living in a Simulated Universe?

06/02/2016 1:35 PM

Good point that I missed in the "universe is a simulation" argument. If the premise was correct that most advanced civilizations would create simulations of the universe and it's also true that within those simulations there would be simulations with their own turtles err I mean simulations...If you buy the premise that other civilizations are like us and build simulations...then the odds of our universe not being a simulation would be astronomically low.

Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: South of Minot North Dakota
Posts: 8376
Good Answers: 775
#7

Re: Op-Ed: Are We Living in a Simulated Universe?

06/02/2016 12:50 PM

So I 'm not lazy? I'm just operating in 'Safe Mode'?

Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: About 4000 miles from the center of the earth (+/-100 mi)
Posts: 9911
Good Answers: 1141
#9

Re: Op-Ed: Are We Living in a Simulated Universe?

06/02/2016 1:09 PM

I'm hoping we are in a simulation and they'll restart before the election!

Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: by the beach in Florida
Posts: 33392
Good Answers: 1817
#10

Re: Op-Ed: Are We Living in a Simulated Universe?

06/02/2016 1:33 PM

I'm pretty sure reality is just a dog's dream....

__________________
All living things seek to control their own destiny....this is the purpose of life
Register to Reply
Guru
Safety - Hazmat - New Member United States - US - Statue of Liberty - New Member Engineering Fields - Chemical Engineering - Old Hand

Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Lubbock, Texas
Posts: 14331
Good Answers: 162
#14

Re: Op-Ed: Are We Living in a Simulated Universe?

06/02/2016 1:51 PM

Row, row, row your boat, gently down the stream.

Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, life is but a dream.

Now wake the F*** back up and go to work!

If the Universe appears to be a nested simulation, are these simulations Lagrangian symmetric, such that the simulation of the simulation results in a big fat reality?

__________________
If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Just build a better one.
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 716
Good Answers: 33
#15

Re: Op-Ed: Are We Living in a Simulated Universe?

06/02/2016 2:02 PM

"The problem is that the assumption that all intelligent civilizations will develop similar to us is just not remotely true and is biased in an annoyingly cliched way. We humans have been making this mistake forever. When people say intelligent life will inevitably develop simulations of the universe, what is really being said is, all intelligent life must be similar to human intelligence. Ugh. This of course is Anthropocentrism, The assessment of reality through an exclusively human perspective."

The human race has survived because our brains make very good simulations of the universe around us, predicting all kinds of dangers and benefits. Any species whose brain does not make good simulations of its environment is likely to die out, or evolve to make a better simulation of its environment. This is not anthropocentrism. It is evolution. And then when those successful species make computer simulations of the universe, they are likely to be similar to their own brains, and similar to the universe.

On the other hand, who said that our universe is actually a simulation of the "real" universe. It is a simulation of a mathematically coherent universe, which may the only way that this particular one will ever exist. The "real" people may make billions of simulations with different kinds of physics operating.

Sometimes it seems to me that somebody created our everyday life experience in a simulation like Second Life, and then had a really hard time figuring out how to make a system of physics that can explain it. Hence, we have quantum physics, relativity, and miracles as kludges to "fix" the system. And the fix of last resort is to admit that it is just a simulation, and tell everyone not to get so obsessed with making the laws of physics be so darned compatible with each other, and just enjoy its beauty.

__________________
canary
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: About 4000 miles from the center of the earth (+/-100 mi)
Posts: 9911
Good Answers: 1141
#19

Re: Op-Ed: Are We Living in a Simulated Universe?

06/02/2016 3:12 PM

We all live in a simulated universe in our own heads. You have simulations of "you", and also family members, relatives, friends, other people you know and things you know about, simulations you have created from your own experience and your experience of observing others.

Your brain (a biological computer) constantly runs scenarios using these simulations of agents and objects in the external universe, based on sensory inputs. The brain does this in order to make sense of the world and to predict what will likely happen next, a survival trait developed through evolution. (When asleep, the brain does pretty much the same thing, but with very limited sensory inputs, dreams seem real but usually make very little sense.)

I'm thinking that this is what "consciousness" actually is. IMHO

Based on this idea, it seems possible that multiple scenarios could be running in a huge computer. (Common digital computers usually have multiple streams of execution running independently -- it's called multi-threading.)

Having said all that, I don't really believe that we are all living in a huge simulation. Definitely not 1 billion-to-one odds!

Register to Reply
Active Contributor

Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 22
#20

Re: Op-Ed: Are We Living in a Simulated Universe?

06/02/2016 3:15 PM

If it's agreed that "the universe likely has had billions of intelligent civilizations since the big bang," then isn't it possible that at least some of those civilizations were similar to humans for some period of their development? So searching for human-like signatures is perhaps not entirely unreasonable.

Register to Reply
The Engineer
Engineering Fields - Engineering Physics - Physics... United States - Member - NY Popular Science - Genetics - Organic Chemistry... Popular Science - Cosmology - New Member Ingeniería en Español - Nuevo Miembro - New Member

Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Albany, New York
Posts: 5060
Good Answers: 129
#24
In reply to #20

Re: Op-Ed: Are We Living in a Simulated Universe?

06/02/2016 4:00 PM

In my opinion, maybe a handful out of billions or trillions of civilizations. What I constantly try to imagine is what intelligent species totally different from us might do. How might they effect the universe in ways that we could detect?

It's an interesting and difficult question for me. For instance, we humans tend to think of math as fundamental to understanding the universe, but really mathematics just allows us to be self-consistent in our arguments. However, there may be ways to be self consistent in other ways. I don't know, but I suspect when we do discover other intelligent life for the first time we will be totally baffled by it.

Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Hemel Hempstead, UK
Posts: 5826
Good Answers: 322
#44
In reply to #24

Re: Op-Ed: Are We Living in a Simulated Universe?

06/22/2016 2:49 PM

"I suspect when we do discover other intelligent life for the first time we will be totally baffled by it."

Not nearly as baffled as they'll be by us .

__________________
If you spend all your time looking for people and things to complain about: trust me, you will find plenty to complain about.
Register to Reply
Guru
Safety - Hazmat - New Member United States - US - Statue of Liberty - New Member Engineering Fields - Chemical Engineering - Old Hand

Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Lubbock, Texas
Posts: 14331
Good Answers: 162
#25
In reply to #20

Re: Op-Ed: Are We Living in a Simulated Universe?

06/02/2016 4:02 PM

If we search for what we know, yet have not found it, is it that we do not know? yes.

If we search for what we do not know, and we do not know that we do not know it, that leaves us grasping in the dark for the light switch.

Where is that light switch to tell the difference between chaos of the universe and sentient beings. These beings could be so advanced they use the chaos as some sort of carrier wave for communications, who knows.

We have yet to observe "artificial lighting" on the back side of any planet we have detected sweeping past its star. That would take an incredibly sensitive measurement and discrimination of light.

There are other ways to set up the parameters to decide if there is a probability of this being a simulation. First one is recognize how small we are, and how much information content there is just to simulate our world, us, computers, bugs and all. Even the pimples. Uniqueness may not be a property of a simulation in the mathematical sense, and although I have not done it, or seen it, I have at least some faith the uniqueness theorem exists for this universe. There could be other universes, I do not know, but this one is singular in nature. What a ride!

__________________
If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Just build a better one.
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 42355
Good Answers: 1693
#21

Re: Op-Ed: Are We Living in a Simulated Universe?

06/02/2016 3:15 PM

There are known knowns; there are things we know we know.

We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know.

But there are also unknown unknowns - the ones we don't know we don't know.

And if one looks throughout the history of our country and other free countries, it is the latter category that tend to be the difficult ones.[1]

Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 716
Good Answers: 33
#22
In reply to #21

Re: Op-Ed: Are We Living in a Simulated Universe?

06/02/2016 3:49 PM

What about the unknown knowns? The things we don't know that we know? Like Donald Rumsfeld (who made these divisions famous) not knowing that we knew that Iraq would explode with ethnic violence if Saddam Hussein was removed from power?

__________________
canary
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 42355
Good Answers: 1693
#23
In reply to #22

Re: Op-Ed: Are We Living in a Simulated Universe?

06/02/2016 3:53 PM

My feeling is that was secondary to actually starting the war to make money.

Remember George Bush's brain had/has clo$e ties to Haliburton, KBR, ect.

Register to Reply
Guru
Safety - Hazmat - New Member United States - US - Statue of Liberty - New Member Engineering Fields - Chemical Engineering - Old Hand

Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Lubbock, Texas
Posts: 14331
Good Answers: 162
#26
In reply to #23

Re: Op-Ed: Are We Living in a Simulated Universe?

06/02/2016 4:03 PM

Apparently, this simulation is tainted with a fungus, and fermentation can only go on for so long.

__________________
If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Just build a better one.
Register to Reply
Guru
Technical Fields - Technical Writing - New Member Engineering Fields - Piping Design Engineering - New Member

Join Date: May 2009
Location: Richland, WA, USA
Posts: 21017
Good Answers: 795
#27

Re: Op-Ed: Are We Living in a Simulated Universe?

06/02/2016 7:36 PM

We can discuss (or disgust) this topic after everybody takes their brains out of their vats.

__________________
In vino veritas; in cervisia carmen; in aqua E. coli.
Register to Reply
2
Guru
Engineering Fields - Power Engineering - New Member

Join Date: May 2007
Location: NYC metropolitan area.
Posts: 3230
Good Answers: 444
#28

Re: Op-Ed: Are We Living in a Simulated Universe?

06/02/2016 11:23 PM

"...This is your last chance. After this, there is no turning back. You take the blue pill-the story ends, you wake up in your bed and believe whatever you want to believe. You take the red pill-you stay in Wonderland, and I show you how deep the rabbit hole goes. Remember: all I'm offering is the truth. Nothing more..."

Morpheus to Neo in "The Matrix"

__________________
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” Ben Franklin.
Register to Reply Good Answer (Score 2)
Guru
United Kingdom - Member - Indeterminate Engineering Fields - Control Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: In the bothy, 7 chains down the line from Dodman's Lane level crossing, in the nation formerly known as Great Britain. Kettle's on.
Posts: 32175
Good Answers: 839
#29
In reply to #28

Re: Op-Ed: Are We Living in a Simulated Universe?

06/03/2016 3:52 AM

Quite.

__________________
"Did you get my e-mail?" - "The biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place" - George Bernard Shaw, 1856
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: South of Minot North Dakota
Posts: 8376
Good Answers: 775
#33
In reply to #28

Re: Op-Ed: Are We Living in a Simulated Universe?

06/03/2016 7:53 PM

My niece told me one day we are all living in the matrix and I said, 'Yes. I already know."

She asked how I knew and I said, "it's easy. If you pay attention to things around youThere are too many little details that don't add up at times. That and they reset the system fairly often."

I said, 'Have you ever had a week where you subconsciously feel that it's been way more than 5 days between Monday and Friday but yet consciously you can't add things up that account for any missing days? Or that Yesterday feels like it was 3 - 4 days ago compared to how memories of a normal yesterday feel? "

She knew those well. I think we all do.

-----------------------------------------

I'm on to the system now!

Wheres my choices for a new life and the following reset:?

I'm willing to go back in the system here and I'm not even wanting one of the system resource sucking ultimate fame and fortune deluxe packages either. Basic long life, good health, tolerable people around me and basic financial security package. That's all I am asking for.

Now where's my options screen and red pill dammit?

Register to Reply
Guru
United Kingdom - Member - Indeterminate Engineering Fields - Control Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: In the bothy, 7 chains down the line from Dodman's Lane level crossing, in the nation formerly known as Great Britain. Kettle's on.
Posts: 32175
Good Answers: 839
#41
In reply to #33

Re: Op-Ed: Are We Living in a Simulated Universe?

06/09/2016 6:24 AM

__________________
"Did you get my e-mail?" - "The biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place" - George Bernard Shaw, 1856
Register to Reply
Power-User

Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 344
Good Answers: 17
#30

Re: Op-Ed: Are We Living in a Simulated Universe?

06/03/2016 5:56 AM

Being visited by aliens? Have you considered the odds against successful space travel? The radiation, the solid particles, the time it takes even at say 10% of the speed of light where relativistic effects begin to be serious (for the nearest star from Earth, 80 years), a closed community reproducing without creating "abnormal" progeny, the food, recycling humans and waste, the effect of being in a cage/prison, having enough fuel, to just get started. My money's not on this one. Time to apply Ockham's Razor. God's got enough to do without playing games.

Register to Reply
Guru
Safety - Hazmat - New Member United States - US - Statue of Liberty - New Member Engineering Fields - Chemical Engineering - Old Hand

Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Lubbock, Texas
Posts: 14331
Good Answers: 162
#32
In reply to #30

Re: Op-Ed: Are We Living in a Simulated Universe?

06/03/2016 1:58 PM

....like not throwing dice with the universe.

I just heard about Dragen's new theory of gravity: Assign unit charge (negative graviton for anti-matter, positive graviton for normal matter) to all particles of matter. Two (-) makes a plus in the math, attraction. Two (+) makes a plus (normal matter, usual gravity), and then we have one (-) with one (+) (and/or vice versa). The next trick to see if this is right at the Cern anti-matter research laboratory. If antihydrogen floats up rather than falls down, this is the interesting result of gravity dome rather than gravity well for this special case. It would hopefully make it much easier to contain anti-matter in a normal matter bottle (repulsiive force). In such a case, one would need electrostatic charges to overcome anti-gravimetric forces between antimatter and matter, right? Would this revolutionize any space travel? Maybe.

__________________
If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Just build a better one.
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 716
Good Answers: 33
#34
In reply to #30

Re: Op-Ed: Are We Living in a Simulated Universe?

06/03/2016 9:08 PM

Why bother with space travel? In a simulation, you can just code a way to violate the simulated laws of physics, and teleport from planet to planet.

Or just hack into the code containing the coordinates of your location, and enter some new ones. You would need some new velocity vectors too, being very, very careful that they match your new location.

I'm trying to imagine all the ways that this could go wrong. Depending on the simulation, you might have to do that just once for your whole body including your clothes, or once for each particle in each atom of your body, or somewhere in between. You have to make sure that all the new data was activated at the exact same time to a very high level of precision and accuracy. I wonder how many decimal places of precision you would need for the all the variables for location, velocities, and timing, in order to arrive safely. Otherwise you may make a truly "brilliant" entrance.

__________________
canary
Register to Reply
Guru
Engineering Fields - Electrical Engineering - New Member Fans of Old Computers - Commodore 64 - New Member Popular Science - Evolution - New Member United States - Member - New Member

Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Illinois, 7 county region (The 'blue dot' that drags the rest of the 'red state' around during presidential elections.)
Posts: 3683
Good Answers: 89
#36
In reply to #34

Re: Op-Ed: Are We Living in a Simulated Universe?

06/06/2016 2:17 PM

"You have to make sure that all the new data was activated at the exact same time to a very high level of precision and accuracy. I wonder how many decimal places of precision you would need for the all the variables for location, velocities, and timing, in order to arrive safely. Otherwise you may make a truly "brilliant" entrance."

WE ARE BILLGATUS OF THE PENTIUM COLLECTIVE. RESISTANCE IS FUTILE. YOU WILL BE APPROXIMATED.

(Old old, callback, but I couldn't resist.)

__________________
( The opinions espressed in this post may not reflect the true opinions of the poster, and may not reflect commonly accepted versions of reality. ) (If you are wondering: yes, I DO hope to live to be as old as my jokes.)
Register to Reply
Guru
Safety - Hazmat - New Member United States - US - Statue of Liberty - New Member Engineering Fields - Chemical Engineering - Old Hand

Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Lubbock, Texas
Posts: 14331
Good Answers: 162
#38
In reply to #34

Re: Op-Ed: Are We Living in a Simulated Universe?

06/06/2016 2:33 PM

Don't they call that Star Trek. I want to have another series I call Start Wreck, based upon a bunch of Hillbillies stuck in a destructo derby in the Matrix.

The leader of the pack would have to be none other than Max Crunch. Sad the name Homer Simpson already in use.

__________________
If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Just build a better one.
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Madison, WI.
Posts: 2074
Good Answers: 77
#31

Re: Op-Ed: Are We Living in a Simulated Universe?

06/03/2016 10:02 AM

The question isn't "Is it a simulation" No. the question is, "A simulation of what?"

http://cr4.globalspec.com/blogentry/27304/Caption-This-for-6-3-16?frmtrk=cr4digest&et_rid=842455968&et_mid=83065515

__________________
Knowing is the end result of learning, not believing.
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: About 4000 miles from the center of the earth (+/-100 mi)
Posts: 9911
Good Answers: 1141
#35

Re: Op-Ed: Are We Living in a Simulated Universe?

06/04/2016 10:41 AM

It sounds like a modern version of Solipsism. There is no evidence available to me to prove that anyone else exists. Any evidence that I have comes in through my senses, and that can be faked. Maybe this is just a dream. Nobody (if there really is anybody else) can prove it isn't.

Register to Reply
Guru
Engineering Fields - Electrical Engineering - New Member Fans of Old Computers - Commodore 64 - New Member Popular Science - Evolution - New Member United States - Member - New Member

Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Illinois, 7 county region (The 'blue dot' that drags the rest of the 'red state' around during presidential elections.)
Posts: 3683
Good Answers: 89
#37
In reply to #35

Re: Op-Ed: Are We Living in a Simulated Universe?

06/06/2016 2:25 PM

You pose an interesting argument, some days I wish you were more than a figment of my imagination. Perhaps we should enter into the same arrangement the Unicorn offered to Alice: "Now that we have seen each other; if you'll believe in me, I'll believe in you. Is that a bargain?"

__________________
( The opinions espressed in this post may not reflect the true opinions of the poster, and may not reflect commonly accepted versions of reality. ) (If you are wondering: yes, I DO hope to live to be as old as my jokes.)
Register to Reply
Guru
Safety - Hazmat - New Member United States - US - Statue of Liberty - New Member Engineering Fields - Chemical Engineering - Old Hand

Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Lubbock, Texas
Posts: 14331
Good Answers: 162
#39
In reply to #37

Re: Op-Ed: Are We Living in a Simulated Universe?

06/06/2016 2:34 PM

Believe is a mighty big word for a bird.

__________________
If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Just build a better one.
Register to Reply
Guru
United Kingdom - Member - Indeterminate Engineering Fields - Control Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: In the bothy, 7 chains down the line from Dodman's Lane level crossing, in the nation formerly known as Great Britain. Kettle's on.
Posts: 32175
Good Answers: 839
#40

Re: Op-Ed: Are We Living in a Simulated Universe?

06/09/2016 6:08 AM

__________________
"Did you get my e-mail?" - "The biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place" - George Bernard Shaw, 1856
Register to Reply
Guru
Safety - Hazmat - New Member United States - US - Statue of Liberty - New Member Engineering Fields - Chemical Engineering - Old Hand

Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Lubbock, Texas
Posts: 14331
Good Answers: 162
#42
In reply to #40

Re: Op-Ed: Are We Living in a Simulated Universe?

06/09/2016 2:38 PM

That guy seems to always keep showing up at the wrong time....Mr. Smith is it?

__________________
If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Just build a better one.
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Hemel Hempstead, UK
Posts: 5826
Good Answers: 322
#43

Re: Op-Ed: Are We Living in a Simulated Universe?

06/22/2016 2:47 PM

Oh well: I guess if tomorrow doesn't go well (UK referendum on EU membership), there's always:-

__________________
If you spend all your time looking for people and things to complain about: trust me, you will find plenty to complain about.
Register to Reply
Guru
Engineering Fields - Electrical Engineering - New Member Fans of Old Computers - Commodore 64 - New Member Popular Science - Evolution - New Member United States - Member - New Member

Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Illinois, 7 county region (The 'blue dot' that drags the rest of the 'red state' around during presidential elections.)
Posts: 3683
Good Answers: 89
#45
In reply to #43

Re: Op-Ed: Are We Living in a Simulated Universe?

06/27/2016 9:39 AM

The Brexit vote, Trump's candidacy, Anyone else get the feeling that the User is getting bored and is throwing the 'parameters' dials to their extremes 'just to see what happens'?

__________________
( The opinions espressed in this post may not reflect the true opinions of the poster, and may not reflect commonly accepted versions of reality. ) (If you are wondering: yes, I DO hope to live to be as old as my jokes.)
Register to Reply
Guru
Safety - Hazmat - New Member United States - US - Statue of Liberty - New Member Engineering Fields - Chemical Engineering - Old Hand

Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Lubbock, Texas
Posts: 14331
Good Answers: 162
#46
In reply to #45

Re: Op-Ed: Are We Living in a Simulated Universe?

06/27/2016 1:36 PM

This is just a 10% increase in critical control parameter in logistic oscillator, wait until it approached 0.98, from where it is now, and totally random chaos will result. Right now, it is only on metastable 12 period.

__________________
If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Just build a better one.
Register to Reply
Register to Reply 46 comments

Good Answers:

These comments received enough positive votes to make them "good answers".

"Almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, vote them!
Copy to Clipboard

Users who posted comments:

adreasler (3); Bayes (3); Canary (4); James Stewart (9); Kilowatt0 (1); lyn (4); Mikerho (1); Phaddy (1); PWSlack (3); Quasar (1); RAMConsult (1); Randall (2); rashavarek (1); Rixter (4); SolarEagle (4); tcmtech (2); Tornado (1); Usbport (1)

Previous in Forum: Bees Sense Electric Fields of Flowers   Next in Forum: Exhaust Fan for Powder

Advertisement