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Two Hand Trip Lever

12/06/2016 6:39 AM

I am looking for a simple mechanical two hand trip lever design for an eccentric press.

Thanks,

Johan van Niekerk

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#1

Re: Two Hand Trip Lever

12/06/2016 7:40 AM

I must be doing something wrong. This certainly is not the press you were alluding too.

Please change the search term to something more suitable.

What do you intend to trip with your lever?

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#4
In reply to #1

Re: Two Hand Trip Lever

12/06/2016 8:29 AM

As I stated in my request I want to trip an eccentric press.

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#10
In reply to #4

Re: Two Hand Trip Lever

12/06/2016 11:23 AM

Why?

Is "trip" the correct description of what you expect it does?

is it:

activate (a mechanism), especially by contact with a switch, catch, or other electrical device. "somebody tripped the alarm"

synonyms:set off,

activate, trigger; More

  • (of part of an electric circuit) disconnect automatically as a safety measure. "the plugs will trip as soon as any change in current is detected"
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#30
In reply to #1

Re: Two Hand Trip Lever

12/07/2016 10:42 AM

______________|_____________

||------------- ------------ -----------||

_____|________________|_____

Poor sketch above, pure mechanical answer.

Consider the top vertical pin as the output, there are three horizontal pivotable levers, They minimally engage at their intersection ( see the space between levers representing the engagement. When either bottom pin is pushed up individually, it will not move the top pin up and loses it hold on the center bar. When both lower vertical pins are moved together they move the center upper pin vertically and engage the press in their transition to releasing the center bar at the top of the stroke. I assume the non repeat is guaranteed by the press.

Requirements

two hand operate

simultaneous two hand

non repeat until reset

Hope this helps,

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#31
In reply to #30

Re: Two Hand Trip Lever

12/07/2016 11:03 AM

I do need to add one point. You need to understand that a mechanically tripped press in destruction released once activated. That will not meet OSHA. Separate provisions, guarding, cables etc. must be provided to prevent the operator from reaching into the press after activation.

Thanks,

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#2

Re: Two Hand Trip Lever

12/06/2016 7:42 AM
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#3
In reply to #2

Re: Two Hand Trip Lever

12/06/2016 8:27 AM

Thanks anonymous that is where I started but with no success. CR4 was my last refuse.

See if you can get any if you do please let me know.

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#5

Re: Two Hand Trip Lever

12/06/2016 9:04 AM

The reason the original equipment manufacturer is not available by telephone is what, please?

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#6
In reply to #5

Re: Two Hand Trip Lever

12/06/2016 9:45 AM

I do not know of such an original manufacturer.

I have googled and searched high and low and could not get a supplier for this nor a design.

Please give me some credit for intelligence I have tried everywhere else before I tried CR4 and if my memory serves me right there are some creative and intelligent members with this forum. For those who don't know the answer please do not be mad at me for being uninformed, you do not need to reply.

Thanks.

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#7
In reply to #6

Re: Two Hand Trip Lever

12/06/2016 10:32 AM

The forum doesn't have much to go on as yet.

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#11
In reply to #7

Re: Two Hand Trip Lever

12/06/2016 11:23 AM

(( self-OT'd here ... this is "confidential"...))

I was wishing to "steal" your "Signature Line" (for another purpose), and offer a "Thanks" to you for having "provided" it to me...

However: something compelled me to "double_check" the origin..... (in the same context as my post #142 at the thread: Can-I-get-Is-it-an-Across-the-Pond-or-Generational-Thing)

Scroll down the page to: "Misattributed", at wikiquote:

And / also , "QuoteInvestigator" says:

"There is no substantive evidence that George Bernard Shaw who died in 1950 made this statement", further stating that the earliest appearance of anything close was in an article titled “Is Anybody Listening?” by William H. Whyte (published in “Fortune” magazine, 1950).

So, my question to you is: DO YOU have an actual / verifiable reference for your attribution...(?)... especially given that the DATE you cite (1856) was the year of his BIRTH...(?)

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#27
In reply to #7

Re: Two Hand Trip Lever

12/07/2016 8:23 AM

"The forum doesn't have much to go on as yet."

Haven't you seen post #1

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#8
In reply to #6

Re: Two Hand Trip Lever

12/06/2016 11:00 AM

"Credit for intelligence"...? ! ? Sorry, but: Bah!

What kind of a "Question" have you posed here?

What TYPE of "eccentric press" are you referring to, for doing WHAT...?!! The link provided by AP1 yielded a sweet-looking pdf file from Ohio.edu, to which you haven't begun to respond, explaining the why-nots as to why IT does not satisfy your need.

If you can find your answer with such loose description, then please help ME:

I am looking for a button.

?? Did we not JUST "go through" the irritation of ambiguous postings here... e.g., (my) "Post #21" at this thread.....?!?!?

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#19
In reply to #8

Re: Two Hand Trip Lever

12/07/2016 12:06 AM

If you do not know what an eccentric press is why don't you just ignore my question?

If you do not know what it is you definitely won't be able to assist.

Stop pulling your hair and relax, I did not expect everybody to know the answer.

For persons in the know my original request said everything that is needed to provide an answer.

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#9

Re: Two Hand Trip Lever

12/06/2016 11:20 AM
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#12
In reply to #9

Re: Two Hand Trip Lever

12/06/2016 11:25 AM

That must be it!

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#18
In reply to #9

Re: Two Hand Trip Lever

12/07/2016 12:01 AM

Aah at least somebody that grasps the problem.

Thanks for your input, but I am looking for a design of a mechanical trip lever.

The purpose of the trip lever is to 'trip' the rolling key mechanism on an eccentric mechanical press.

For safety sake the operator must use both hands simultaneously to trip (start the cycle) the machine ensuring that his hands are out of danger. Normally these machines are supplied with a foot pedal trip mechanism only. In some countries like in some US states it is a legal requirement that presses should be equipped with a two hand trip mechanism. The proposed system you show does exactly that but is an electrical system. You can also have pneumatic and hydraulic systems but I need a mechanical system.

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#13

Re: Two Hand Trip Lever

12/06/2016 11:46 AM

"Apologies", but, YOU are simply "aiding-and-abetting" the PROBLEM here...(!)

The OP is NOT looking for a "SUPPLIER"... he is "looking for a simple mechanical two hand trip lever DESIGN..."

Yet , he has NOT provided a single solitary morsel of information as to what precise function, his "design" is intending to perform.

[[ See ARrrrgghhhhh ! ! ! above ! ]]

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#14
In reply to #13

Re: Two Hand Trip Lever

12/06/2016 12:16 PM

That would be why the forum hasn't got much to go on, then.

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#15
In reply to #14

Re: Two Hand Trip Lever

12/06/2016 1:37 PM

Errrr.... "No comprendo"

"The biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place"

. . . . .

??? did you (really?) MEAN TO "Reply_To" #14, instead of to (my) Post#11 (replying-to YOUR Post#7...?!?!?

ARrrrgghhhhh ! ! !

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#16

Re: Two Hand Trip Lever

12/06/2016 7:50 PM

The expression "Two Hand Trip Lever" is completely undefined. Until that is corrected, no progress is possible.

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#20
In reply to #16

Re: Two Hand Trip Lever

12/07/2016 12:12 AM

I stand to be corrected but I was under the impression that this is an ENGINEERING forum and an engineer that does not know what an eccentric press is nor what a trip lever is is still wanting plenty experience.

Most metal components are manufactured by pressing or forging.

Thanks for trying anyway.

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#25
In reply to #20

Re: Two Hand Trip Lever

12/07/2016 6:18 AM

So is that metalwork, and not printing, then, FFS?

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#17

Re: Two Hand Trip Lever

12/06/2016 11:32 PM

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#28
In reply to #17

Re: Two Hand Trip Lever

12/07/2016 8:56 AM

u h . . . I'd mebbe give a "GA" for that ... IF you'd go that "extra millimeter" to zoom and crop just a tad.

Or perhaps , even just share the NUMBER, so as to enable success in locating the file!

Let's all try to go "ONE_BETTER" than some of the "Query-ers", here.... eh?

[[Zooming-in on the "almost-image" provided does NO good whatsoever...!]]

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#21

Re: Two Hand Trip Lever

12/07/2016 2:51 AM

Johan do you want to activate your press with this 2 hand lever. The idea is to occupy both hands to ensure that the hands are both out of the way before the press opperate?

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#24
In reply to #21

Re: Two Hand Trip Lever

12/07/2016 4:55 AM

That's it, yes for safety.

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#33
In reply to #24

Re: Two Hand Trip Lever

12/08/2016 1:08 AM

Your biggest concern should be that these levers need to be interlocked. That means on lever pushed activates the machine and the other lever activates the first lever but it also has to deactivate the machine when released. Or both activate the other lever plus machine while a release of either one of the levers deactivates it.

You might want to search for mechanical interlocking safety levers.

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#22

Re: Two Hand Trip Lever

12/07/2016 4:23 AM

Never seen a mechanical two hand trip, they are usually electrical. Are you sure that they exist?

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#23
In reply to #22

Re: Two Hand Trip Lever

12/07/2016 4:27 AM

Yes they do. I have had machines equipped with them.

Thanks for your trouble, but it seems I will just have to keep with my own design.

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#29
In reply to #23

Re: Two Hand Trip Lever

12/07/2016 10:37 AM

well you will have to keep with your own design because you are giving us nothing to go with.

your machine, does it operate on hydraulic pressure to form your metal? if so, your safety setup can use some hydraulic valves that can be open/closed with your safety levers or buttons.

the group is asking... begging you to give more detail such as pictures ect. so that we can help you. yes we know what an eccentric press is or does, the design can do many more things than what your chore is.

ask a detailed question- get a detailed answer.

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#26

Re: Two Hand Trip Lever

12/07/2016 8:20 AM

What sort of start mechanism do the handles activate.

The simplest idea I can think of is a straight bar: either between the "top" ends of the handles, or, between the "bottom" ends (extended beyond the pivot point); the middle point of the bar has to move further than half its total travel to engage the start mechanism.

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#32

Re: Two Hand Trip Lever

12/07/2016 11:07 AM

Who is the press manufacturer and what model is it?

I assume you are engaging a clutch on the drive of the press eccentric that has an engaged position and a raised/stopped/locked position and what you need to install are two interrupter bars required to put the clutch into position to stroke. Will your application require control release between actuations to prevent the duct tape control override?

Related question, which local safety regulations are you complying with?

Where I am located, the regulations on this sort of installation will allow electrical interlocks, others types of installations require electromechanical interlocks and some allow mechanical only interlocks. On eccentric presses in my locale, mechanical or light curtain guarding is allowed on eccentric presses as well as two hand electric interlock.

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#34
In reply to #32

Re: Two Hand Trip Lever

12/08/2016 1:25 AM

All I know is that it is a German manufacture 45 Ton eccentric press.

The type of press nor the mechanism of control is really of importance, all I need is a trip mechanical mechanism. This only needs to provide some lever movement when both hands are applied to the handles. Below is my draft design I intend to use.

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#36
In reply to #34

Re: Two Hand Trip Lever

12/08/2016 12:01 PM

It has been over 25 years since I worked in a shop that had a room-full of punch presses, knocking-out circles of (several) stainless alloys from which to manufacture metal bellows devices.

Of those, I recall that SOME had "safety-bar-door" interlocks (to prevent hands getting in, during cycling), while others did not.

Due to most every other detail being a bit foggy, at this point, I cannot be of much help.

HOWEVER (Jp's consummate attempt to wring-things-out aside), I am floundering to make sense of (several things, including):

"All I know is that it is a German manufacture 45 Ton eccentric press.

(neither) The type of press nor the mechanism of control is really of importance"...

THUS - (as PW stated in #7)... "The forum (still) doesn't have much to go on as yet."

SE's link (in #9) reiterates that there are numerous ways to achieve SAFETY... which IS, obviously, the ultimate goal.

HOW on Earth can the make/model (of press) and the "mechanism of control" NOT MATTER (i.e., not be of importance), and yet, require you to jump through hoops designing a two-handed-mechanical-sort of operation-tripping?

I am willing to bet that there is (EITHER) an electric motor or a hydraulic system providing the impetus for the press, and as such, affords a wide variety of possible solutions, IF you were open to any-and-all considerations.

Without more detail being available, "mechanical design" (in my humble opinion) is futile... unless somebody here has ((67model's)) "CR4 crystal ball ... or... palantiring" abilities.

<< G r o a n ... >>

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#35

Re: Two Hand Trip Lever

12/08/2016 10:42 AM

If I understand right, the two slide bars come in from the sides and cam the four pin center piece up, pulling lower bar up. If one is actuated, then the center piece pivots and fails to pull the lower bar.

Issues I see are likely binding in the side bars due to lever effect in the side guide slots as the side bars apply cam pressure. Secondly, both side bars must be operated simultaneously or the center piece will pivot and fail to actuate.

I would improve guidance on the side bars to prevent binding, harden the wear surfaces, provide for maintenance lubrication and use rollers against camming surfaces. A simplified version would use slotted side and lower bars with a shoulder screw and drill bushing as a roller inside the slot. Then the base becomes a flat plate with drilled and tapped holes for the slide guides. I assume also that there will be a cover to prevent the operator from directly pulling on the lower bar and trigger the press one-handed. This does require that the operator have two hands, or at least two hooks.

The simultaneity in operation is likely to be an operator complaint as it will directly impact missed strokes and output reduction even when the device is used as intended. I would give further consideration to having the left handle release the right handle and the right handle trigger the press, as was mentioned in a previous post. Then the operator has a repeatable, reliable sequence.

I still don't know if both handles could be duct taped in and leave the press cycling.

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#37
In reply to #35

Re: Two Hand Trip Lever

12/09/2016 12:04 AM

Thanks for your much valued input.

Yes the box has a cover to keep all the parts in at least. The two side bars also have elongated handles for leverage and a grip.

Just keep in mind on your proposal of the one lever releasing the other that it is paramount that both levers must be pushed simultaneously .

Duct taping will not work as the trip will only work once, then has to be released for the next cycle.

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#38

Re: Two Hand Trip Lever

12/09/2016 2:32 PM

some type of electrical relay over mechanical control may be more cost effective as well as simple.

or give these guys a call.

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