Transportation

You have to take into account time....time lost in transport for passengers is usually non-productive time and must be part of the equation....so distance needed to travel will play a major role in any calculation, as will ancillary modes of support transportation to actual destination....The most efficient form of transportation is usually the one most used....that varies with logistics of the trip....

If one considers only the financial or energy cost for distance traveled I suspect ship followed by train should be considered the most efficient modes of transportation. As SE pointed out, if time is a concern then an airplane is probably your best bet. However all of these modes of transportation suffer from the problem of limited points of departure and scheduling complications (unless you are a pilot) that can negate any time gained from a higher velocity.

Impossible to answer in any meaningful way, as presented.

A WAG: Container ships for trans-ocean shipping, railroads for transcontinental shipping, semi-tractor trailers for state wide distribution, and delivery service/post office for local delivery.

I'm not sure how air transport rates, but it isn't generally cheap.

W.A.G. - does this bit about container ships include shipment of waifs?

Might be "cost effective", but yuck, what a lousy way to go.

The answer will vary dependant on the trip and purpose.

The civil engineers here will be able to give examples from road construction where a bulldozer is best for short (less than 25m), then self loading scrapers for up to 250m, then loaders and trucks for >250m.

There are some robust algorithms used to optimise material movement in that sort of activity. Original programs in MATLAB back in the last century were the foundation for some of these.

Same happens for people. I would not start the car to move to the other end of the house, but would not consider walking 15 km to town, but would not drive to Perth (>3000km) unless there were other visits intended along the way.

No contest: . It's well ahead of everything else on the cost scale of kWh/ton-mile.

Well, maybe not well ahead of everythingeverything else...

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25085605

See #3⇑.

I ride my bicycle 5 miles a day, just for kicks. (Exercise)

I agree. But, you should see my utility bike that I customized myself. It can carry/tow a lot. With the proper setup, It can even go off-road in bad weather if you have fenders on it. That's why all my bikes are ancient. You can't buy them in any store. But, they're not so ancient to exclude a lot of gears for all terrain/inclines/torque. Won't carry as much as a truck. But, it's better than one might think. It will also go where a truck can't. I put so much torque on one of my bikes that the frame kept breaking and had to be re-welded several times. In spite of that, I'm not ready to get rid of it.

"Won't carry as much as a truck."

Then you're not a pro yet.

"It's a long way. I might get several punctures!"

Pictures?

It's too cold out now for that. Maybe when spring comes.

One cannot use money as a measure of <...cost...>, as there are hundreds of different monies across the globe and their individual values vary with time.

"Aye the chiipest form o' transport is walkin wi' nae boots nor socks on."

Sorry about my Scots accent.

But, there's another completely opposite view. The Voyager 1 probe is now 11.7 billion miles away; the whole voyager mission cost 865 million dollars, and, the probe weighs about 1797 pounds. That works out at about 0.004 cents per pound mile.

Interesting, valid, and pertinent point. Unfortunately not all of us can get up in the morning, take our cup, and climb in our gravitational sling-shot vehicle.

Well, by that perspective, Voyager's 0.0004 $/lb.mile pales in comparison to the 140 miles per second achieved at the lowest level of cost... by just sitting here as the entire solar system orbits the Milkyway center.

Better returns for similar expense yet for a far larger total mass are available considering the Local Group is headed toward the Virgo Cluster at around 375 miles per second.

I'm wi yuu, but it's nae sa quick. Beam me up Scotty

Rickshaw operated on rice/man power, maybe with some fish thrown in once in a while.

Horse and wagon.

A horse eats grasses, which in many parts of the world grow naturally in fields that are untended. Also water is available in ponds, lakes and streams, so no mechanical means are necessary to provide this resource to the animal

The byproducts of motive, urine and manure can be captured and used to make a variety of products.

The wagon and the horse require very little maintenance, a single man blacksmith shop and livery can easily service several dozen horse and wagon combinations.

All that is required to service a horse and wagon is a quantity of naturally occurring organic materials and a quantity of soft iron.

Operational costs are low, return on investment are high.

The main drawback would be expediency, slower than a mechanized unit, although faster than an ambulatory gait.

"... Operational costs are low, return on investment are high...."

I'll take a wild guess and say you have never owned horses.

The horse and wagon I spoke of was the typical device that a common man would own in the 1800's.

Not the sporting plaything that most owners of equine own today.

1800's man didn't have or need access to shots, nutritional supplements, hot walkers or just a phone call away visiting veterinarians they have today.

One can gain quite a perspective when ones relative owns and operates a ranch that raises world class arabians.

"... One can gain quite a perspective when ones relative owns and operates a ranch that raises world class arabians....."

Arabians! That is indeed quite a perspective. Arabians of all breeds are definitely not low maintenance. Sure there are the relatively calm, sane exceptions, but the typical Arab is anything but.

Beautiful, spirited, capable of great endurance, and prone to intermittent periods of bat shit crazy as in ...

"Calm, fine, everything's okay carrying my rider....OMG, is that a hose? ....or is that a snake! OMG it might be a snake! OMG what is the best course of action?...should I move away smoothly? Fool, No! Better pretend like everything except for the rider is not subject to inertial effects. OH! It is still there pretending to be a garden hose! Don't run, snakes can sense fear! Quick, as fast as you can, lie down and trap the riders leg under you while you attempt to roll away from the hose snake. Also remember to get whale eye and jump around skittishly every other time (not every time) you pass this spot in the future, even though the hose has been removed"

...or...

"...Well don't the the humans think they're smart building this Paddock they don't think anyone can injure their self in. Well I'll show them let me just lie down and wiggle my leg way under the bottom fence rail and then from there try to stand straight up so I scrape all the skin off my leg. That'll take months of twice a day bandage changes to heal properly. That'll teach them."

Arabs, indeed.

Just as an observation, I've noticed that your never quite that happy unless you are engaged in a joust with another player. It appears that you seek and thrive on conflict. Have you had this affliction for long ?

In the words of Mr Nightlinger : " I have the motivation, the where with all, but frankly I don't have the time ".

Cheers

In fairness to Tony: I think he was drawing attention to the difference between the needs of thoroughbreds and "stock" horses rather than the other way round.

In this case, I believe that you should look to either Mark Twain who said "Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference," or George Carlin who said "Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience."

It appears that someone here believes that (to borrow a recent saying) they are a "stable genius."

Quit acting like a spoiled child and get over yourself. If removing GAs makes you happy, go for it.

I'll say no more to you.

You've only deleted 10 GA's so far. Don't quit now.

Paranoia will destroy ya. Quit getting the natives needlessly agitated with your delusions of persecution.

Far more often, your comments have earned a GA than an OT from me. That hasn't changed despite your onerous snorts of recent. Can you fathom why? Because unlike you, I am not resorting to ad hominem attacks. I rate the comment, not the commenter.

After all, even a blind hog gets an acorn every now and then. It would be cruel to deny it the bounty regardless of how ugly the hog is behaving.

Now who is being just nasty? Hmmm...?

This just keeps on getting better. Can't argue with you on that one.

Hey Lyn,

How ironic would it be if while attempting to call someone a fool, you misattributed both quotes you found so apropos?

There is no good evidence that either Carlin or Twain said or wrote the words you attribute to them.

A similar quote can be found in Proverbs 26 4.... not really what one would call a go-to- reference for Carlin or Twain.

.

I realize you probably were relying on some clever quotes website for your attempted witticism, but if you can set aside the bickering for a moment, perhaps there is a useful lesson here about relying too heavily on what supposed experts tell you without gaining personal understanding.

How do you know neither Carlin nor Twain every read that passage or quoted it?

I suspect if one had used the same collection of profanities either of those men uttered in their lifetime, they would become the most studious of Biblical scholars later in life, as they prayed for their salvation, and to find the Holy Grail. Usually the best Templar Knights were the worst sinners in a previous life. So prepare yourself, pilgrim.

I think it was from the Book of Harold that was edited out from the new testament.

A lot of people don't know the Book of Harold because that's one of many scriptures that didn't make the cut when the Catholics were editting the Word of God when they were writing it.

yes, Book of Harold is fictitious,... at least I think it's fictitious,... who knows what was left on the cutting floor after religion institutions gets involved.

You have never Harold 17:2?

Amazon has something

So God is now a philanderer? WOW! The deeviel is working OT lately, right?

I had to googled Harold 17:2... to no avail. and only came up with amazon

Instead of saying the Book of Harold,... maybe I should have used the Book of Poindexter instead.....

Heck, open up your own book (or mine), Chapter 17, verse 2: "Get back on your heads you motley crew!" "Break time is over!"

Every personal book comes with at least one verse that says that.

oh,... you must be talking about the personnel handbook....

You are reading in what wasn't written (and wasn't intended). I did not say they never read it. I only said it wasn't likely to be a go-to reference.

Carlin actually did a lot of material critical of the bible, so in that sense, perhaps it could be considered a go-to reference.

Carlin actually did a lot of material critical of the bible,

Well,.. that book can be a target rich to criticizes...

The book, or some of the people seemingly devotees of the Book?

It is not the Book's fault if some do not know how to go about communicating with it.

The Bible has been called the Living Word of God. Perhaps, brother, there is a reason for that. If you purposed in your heart to find a new meaning in there, and opened the Book in good faith, not with a jaundiced eye, I promise you that today, you might find a slice of Paradise in there. A quantum of solace.

The Bible has been called the living word of god...

And who calls it that? God, or the people that wrote it?

and as far as faith is concerned, faith is a whole another topic,...

I leave it for you to explore, and see if you find anything in there that speaks directly to your heart.

He definitively went after devotees, but he also went after the book...

oooh, just one more....

..."the divine plan"... on that topic, why would God mess up His plan just for someone's selfish wants, not needs?

On the topic of prayer....it is not all about begging the Higher Power for something you just want, although there is no fault in being honest with God. There are other aspects of rightful prayer, but this is not particularly the place or time or forum in which to delve deep in that.

For evil enemies, one can pray for them, that they receive their just reward, also what they need and deserve, rather than what they want. For some, it might be well to pray they receive exactly what they are asking for. For others, that they find justice, for still others, mercy.

When I need mercy, it does me well to ask God if I have been merciful, and where I can improve on that.

The Book tells me that it is far better for me to not go to the church and pray if I have a conflict with someone in my circle (or outside my circle), but it is better to go them and resolve that conflict, offense, disagreement, etc., and then go on about my way to prayer. This is one reason why if a person holds a grudge in their heart, their prayers never seem to go past the ceiling, merely bouncing back to them.

Actually, George Carlin is right in many respect, and funny while doing it. If there are all these spurious issues in a life, it is better to deal with them, then go pray. There may be a reason why God is not being "talkative" on a subject. It could be that the party praying is not listening to what God already told them to take care of.

I never said I did not or will not laugh off mine posterior to the phrases of George Carlin. He crows much, never lays an egg, and seems to have it all together. I expect there was a reason the Moses had to write down the expanded version, and not the two (or three) commandments of George. Perhaps it was so that the folks he was leading could really better understand explicitly the will of the one God dictating the commandments.

George, in elaborating his version, has broken his own third commandment, which is often the case with those that find indigestion when a personal relationship with God is mentioned.

It is good to honor your mother and father (that your own days may be prolonged upon the Earth). It does you good, it says nothing about the problems or good points with your parents. Clearly, some parents should never have been parents, but that is another entire thread. It is about your heart, how you feel, what kind of love you are capable of showing others, even when they spitefully mistreat you.

If you can do this, your days on the Earth will be blessed, and you will find peace (in the end). Fulfilling this one commandment, puts the soul on the road to having the capacity within them to begin to appreciate and obey the other nine commandments.

Even so, these remain as the Old Covenant (contract), and now we have a New Covenant (contract). It is much simpler. Love one another, even as I have loved you.

You are quite correct in your assumption. It is time to get out the troll spray.

Oh Peter, are you still bitter about having so many people thrash your assertions of superior intellect and authority accompanying your absolutely over-the-top claims in the 'am I drinking enough water' thread?

Time to put on your big boy pants get over it, Peter.

I did ROFLMAO! I don't care who you are, that is down right funny. That Arabian horse sounds like a lot of folks I know.

One thing about the Arabs... when they are running,... they're one of the most graceful horses there are.... it matches their temperament.

True.

The application of agriculture husbandry and mechanical operatus were never meant to be competitive, the comparison would be like the human powered propulsion of the javelin to the mechanical propulsion of the archer. A newer means of motive has always been shown to supplant an older technology.

Many of the wonders of the ancient world were constructed using compression spoke wheels long before the advent of tensioned wire spokes. As for the tractor, thousands of man hours are used in the design, engineering and construction of the device and the parts thereof, not to mention the millions of dollars required for implementation of the same, whereas a hammer, saw, block plane, hand drill and rule could be used to build the other.

Nothing is so good for the heart (inside) of a man, than the outside of a horse. Love your horse, and they will love you back.

We logged and periodically worked the farm with horses... Belgians, half breeds (Belgians breed with what ever mares we had, to get a smaller horse... it was easier for dad to put on the harness as he aged.), and we also logged with Haflinger.

They became an extra man... we'd hitch the log up, and send them out on their own... we had a guy outside the woods to unhitch and send them back on their own...

Took the horses about a week to pick this up. If the ever got hung up in the woods. they would back up, and try a slight angle pull... only after a repeated unsuccessful try's... they would then stand and wait for help.

People who visited, were astonished... and looking back,.. even though we were proud of it... to a certain degree, we took it for granted.

Same with a good farm dog that can worked cattle.....

Animals are amazingly good at doing what is requested, once they get the hang of it, and are generally not nefarious, and want to please the master animal. Why? I don't know, especially when/if they get virtually nothing out of it in return. If praised, petted, groomed, well fed, and well watered, then maybe that gives them some happiness.

It is mere play for the animals most of the time, and some people will never understand that.

Depends... we had filled out paper work to get few mustangs from the government... and one of extremely hard to get broke. except maybe not to Dan "Buck" Brannaman

Some domesticated animals are quite good at appropriate requests.

Not sure that corresponds well to efficiency in transportation, though responding poorly to appropriate requests could certainly lead to inefficiencies.

What is more efficient- You have to drive a car say 200 k.m on hot day. Yoy need to use AC to cool the car. Will it be more efficient to drive it at 90 k.m/h [optimise engine's fuel consumption] or 160 km/h to save ac working time?

It would be the rare exception where driving at 160 vs 90 would save fuel because you ran the A.C. (and the whole car) for a shorter period of time.

Typical auto A.C. can consume 6 kW. Power required for air resistance rises roughly with the cube of velocity. It would be an unusual case where additional power for air resistance did not dwarf any savings for shorter run time at the 90 vs 160 kmph.

A.C. load will also be higher while driving faster on a hot day.

That must be why everyone on the interstate highways continually break the speed limit law, one speed up, and like a school of fish they all speed up, just to save on A/C, then turn around and risk dismemberment and death.

Get rid of the A/C compressor and get one of these new systems when it comes out.

membrane/dew point cooler system is all the rage

Plus you get drinking water to spare, drop in a sanitizer tab first, please.

For the most part, IN high traffic, I always felt one should drive at the speed of the traffic flow. I've seen a lot less incidence when this occurs.

It depends a lot on the distance to move the item. Across the warehouse, maybe a fork lift , depending on weight, but it would certainly cost more to use a jet liner to move freight from one side of the airport to another!

Weight is always an issue. Shipping plastic tubing can be vary expensive, since in effect you can be shipping air!

I think to answer that you have to designate a distance that makes sense for all classes of general transportation vehicles, and a minimum number of people. Let's take a group of 25 people traveling 500 miles. 500 miles is a distance that a group of people might travel via plane, train, boat (point-to-point along a coastline), car (rental cars, or ubers) -- or bus. (10 miles by plane makes no sense; 5000 miles by car may be doable but is unrealistic.)

Given these options, I'd say bus. It can haul people and goods. A bus carrying 25 people will use less fuel per passenger mile carrying the same number of people as the equivalent number of cars. It's the least expensive of these options to book a ride on.

Buses also allow a greater variety of point-to-point destinations than trains or airplanes, which typically require additional vehicles to get you to your final destination.

Final answer: buses.

Nice work.

I am surprised to find no VAWT mast to take advantage of wind as well as solar.

How long is a rope?

About one foot too short to hang an idea.

Sub: Innovation – Fuel less mass transportation system fully integrating private conveyances.

We briefly present the innovative project viz. Fuel less mass transportation system fully integrating private conveyances for meeting challenges in transport sector, for the benefits of people, at large, as follows.

Roads, Railways themselves will move (such as conveyor tracks) with aid of solar & wind power and will carry thereon persons, goods, loaded vehicles, passenger laden buses/coaches etc. Two tracks capable of running at desired speed (say 200 kilometers per hour) will be laid on existing roads & railways. Primary track will move non-stop while secondary track will be stationery for fixed time interval (say 1 minute) when passengers, vehicles etc can shift between service road & the secondary track; and this secondary track will then move along with and the same speed of primary track for fixed time interval (say 1 minute) when passengers, vehicles etc can shift between the tracks.

2. It is mentioned that

* The proposed Fuel less mass transportation system fully integrating private Conveyances is based on innovation and patents are duly published by Indian Patent Authority (1086/MUM/2012) as well as by World intellectual Property Organization (WO2013164848).

· The system works in synergy with the existing public as well as personal transportation means to provide an enhanced public-private transport system;

· It will be efficient, quick, safe & cost effective public-private transportation system;

· There will be no need of driving individual public or private vehicles; thus, no burning of fuels; no pollution; no road accidents;

· It will save 80% cost in transport sector;

· Covering most busy road lengths will save 70% fuel; will eliminate oil import in a country;

· In addition, the system will also save huge expenditure on transport infrastructure such as wide roads & enormously huge number of vehicles.

· It may be done in phases, Crowded Roads in Cities; National Highways; then State Highways and other major roads.

· May also be done on Local railway tracks in metropolises.

· People all over world will remember executors for centuries !

3. It may be appreciated that entire world is moving with a vision to convert all fossil fuel driven vehicles into Electric vehicles. This can, conveniently be achieved with adaption of the subject patented concept. There will be no need to change all existing vehicles themselves which may involve heavy expenditure, huge wastages & serious challenges during such change over. Instead, by modifying road & rail segments in the envisaged manner & method, all existing vehicles will also run on so modified road & rail lengths, without fuel & will run on electricity, preferably solar or wind power.

4. The system will be “Fuel less Mass transportation system fully integrating private vehicles”.

5. Yet more benefit will be that of saving huge expenditure on infrastructure in future viz. on more & wider roads, more number of railway tracks & extraordinarily huge number of vehicles etc. will be substantially reduced as a result of maximizing use of existing infrastructure (in systems in vogue, not even 10% of road, rails length can be put to use while individual conveyances are moving requiring safe distance between them). There will also no need of stations, stops as one can join or leave conveyor tracks at any point between two end destinations.

6. While I have been canvassing for such fuel less public transportation system since 2011, now I feel obliged to the world and Prime Minister of India for vision of eliminating fossil fuel from the transport sector.

7. It shoule be our Endeavour to ensure elimination of fossil fuel from transport sector by execution of the patented concept project (1086/MUM/2012, WO2013164848).

Kindly keep us posted of your response in the matter.

Yours faithfully,

Uttamrao Hanumantrao Jadhav, IRS (rtd)

Managing Director, M/S AIR CASTLES GREEN LIMITED.

“ShriShailyam”, Village Sultangade, TalukaKhanapur, District Sangli, Maharashtra, India. Pin 415307. Website : https://www.aircastlesgreen.com ; Phone : +919819670920 ; +919833669535 ;Email : uttamrao.jadhav131053@gmail.com; uttamrao@aircastlesgreen.com ; Blog : uttamraojadhav.blogspot.com

It isn't going to work: you have no '1'. You certainly have devoted some enthusiasm to 2 through 7, but things don't start at 2.

...and to think you spent all that time calculating the fuel savings as well as how long into the future people will praise the developers....yet you missed the critical first step.

Even more tragic: you never get a second chance to make a first (step) impression.

Your proposals are quite ambitious and would take many lifetimes to achieve if at all possible. Your proposal obviously reflects conditions that exist in your country of India that you feel, and rightfully so, is a major concern. But in other parts of the world, conditions do not exist to the same extent as in your country. You can not just mandate compliance with your concept. Those countries that do not share similar problems as yours, have their own agenda to follow. In the United States, you would never get the people to give up their cars in favor of public transportation. I'm sure other countries feel the same.

In general, I think people the world over are only concerned with what will happen in their own lifetime and will let the next generation figure out what is best in their lifetime. It may sound like selfishness, but it is a realistic fact of life.

I commend you for your belief, but I think you are looking for a utopian world that is just a pipe dream.

So it is a bucket (of sheite) brigade?

It depends on the need... you want it there quickly... Trucking or airfreight... very expensive.

You want it cheaply but delivery is not critical... Train or Cargo ship.

It all about compromise.

In project management we have 3 items to choose from...

• Cost
• Schedule
• Quality

Pick (2)

Yes but...................

I ordered a $3.79 USD Schrader Valve tool from the 800 pound gorilla of on-line sales. And, every time I order from them, a small % of the purchase cost is given to the charity of my choice.

It shipped free of charge and was delivered on the second day after I placed the order.

This goes back to the inexpensive molded cap that was made in China. I'm sure that shipping took a lot longer tho. Maybe it's the on-shore warehouses?

Maybe it's the on-shore warehouses?

That's true.

I have been ordering off of ebay and amazon... and they do have onshore warehouses of items in larger demand that they move.