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Transportation

01/04/2018 9:06 PM

What is the most cost effective transportation mode for transporting people and materials? We have automobiles, trucks, trains, airplanes and ships that can transport goods and people. If you take into consideration costs, such as fuel, maintenance, fees, taxes and all other ancillary support, which mode of transportation would come out on top? I would not include cruise ships as that is travel for pleasure. Only consider that which is essential in everyday point-to-point commerce.

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#1

Re: Transportation

01/04/2018 9:35 PM

You have to take into account time....time lost in transport for passengers is usually non-productive time and must be part of the equation....so distance needed to travel will play a major role in any calculation, as will ancillary modes of support transportation to actual destination....The most efficient form of transportation is usually the one most used....that varies with logistics of the trip....

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#2

Re: Transportation

01/04/2018 10:28 PM

If one considers only the financial or energy cost for distance traveled I suspect ship followed by train should be considered the most efficient modes of transportation. As SE pointed out, if time is a concern then an airplane is probably your best bet. However all of these modes of transportation suffer from the problem of limited points of departure and scheduling complications (unless you are a pilot) that can negate any time gained from a higher velocity.

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#3

Re: Transportation

01/04/2018 10:29 PM

Impossible to answer in any meaningful way, as presented.

A WAG: Container ships for trans-ocean shipping, railroads for transcontinental shipping, semi-tractor trailers for state wide distribution, and delivery service/post office for local delivery.

I'm not sure how air transport rates, but it isn't generally cheap.

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#67
In reply to #3

Re: Transportation

01/11/2018 2:41 PM

W.A.G. - does this bit about container ships include shipment of waifs?

Might be "cost effective", but yuck, what a lousy way to go.

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#4

Re: Transportation

01/04/2018 11:38 PM

The answer will vary dependant on the trip and purpose.

The civil engineers here will be able to give examples from road construction where a bulldozer is best for short (less than 25m), then self loading scrapers for up to 250m, then loaders and trucks for >250m.

There are some robust algorithms used to optimise material movement in that sort of activity. Original programs in MATLAB back in the last century were the foundation for some of these.

Same happens for people. I would not start the car to move to the other end of the house, but would not consider walking 15 km to town, but would not drive to Perth (>3000km) unless there were other visits intended along the way.

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#5

Re: Transportation

01/05/2018 2:43 AM

No contest: . It's well ahead of everything else on the cost scale of kWh/ton-mile.

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#7
In reply to #5

Re: Transportation

01/05/2018 6:53 AM

Well, maybe not well ahead of everythingeverything else...

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25085605

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#66
In reply to #7

Re: Transportation

01/10/2018 9:28 AM

See #3⇑.

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#9
In reply to #5

Re: Transportation

01/05/2018 2:46 PM

I ride my bicycle 5 miles a day, just for kicks. (Exercise)

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#19
In reply to #5

Re: Transportation

01/06/2018 7:36 AM

I agree. But, you should see my utility bike that I customized myself. It can carry/tow a lot. With the proper setup, It can even go off-road in bad weather if you have fenders on it. That's why all my bikes are ancient. You can't buy them in any store. But, they're not so ancient to exclude a lot of gears for all terrain/inclines/torque. Won't carry as much as a truck. But, it's better than one might think. It will also go where a truck can't. I put so much torque on one of my bikes that the frame kept breaking and had to be re-welded several times. In spite of that, I'm not ready to get rid of it.

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#20
In reply to #19

Re: Transportation

01/06/2018 8:37 AM

"Won't carry as much as a truck."

Then you're not a pro yet.

"It's a long way. I might get several punctures!"

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#23
In reply to #19

Re: Transportation

01/06/2018 11:25 AM

Pictures?

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#65
In reply to #23

Re: Transportation

01/08/2018 10:25 PM

It's too cold out now for that. Maybe when spring comes.

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#6

Re: Transportation

01/05/2018 6:22 AM

One cannot use money as a measure of <...cost...>, as there are hundreds of different monies across the globe and their individual values vary with time.

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#8

Re: Transportation

01/05/2018 2:18 PM

"Aye the chiipest form o' transport is walkin wi' nae boots nor socks on."

Sorry about my Scots accent.

But, there's another completely opposite view. The Voyager 1 probe is now 11.7 billion miles away; the whole voyager mission cost 865 million dollars, and, the probe weighs about 1797 pounds. That works out at about 0.004 cents per pound mile.

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#11
In reply to #8

Re: Transportation

01/05/2018 4:44 PM

Interesting, valid, and pertinent point. Unfortunately not all of us can get up in the morning, take our cup, and climb in our gravitational sling-shot vehicle.

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#13
In reply to #8

Re: Transportation

01/05/2018 11:16 PM

Well, by that perspective, Voyager's 0.0004 $/lb.mile pales in comparison to the 140 miles per second achieved at the lowest level of cost... by just sitting here as the entire solar system orbits the Milkyway center.

Better returns for similar expense yet for a far larger total mass are available considering the Local Group is headed toward the Virgo Cluster at around 375 miles per second.

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#17
In reply to #8

Re: Transportation

01/06/2018 5:16 AM

I'm wi yuu, but it's nae sa quick. Beam me up Scotty

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#10

Re: Transportation

01/05/2018 4:42 PM

Rickshaw operated on rice/man power, maybe with some fish thrown in once in a while.

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#12

Re: Transportation

01/05/2018 11:13 PM

Horse and wagon.

A horse eats grasses, which in many parts of the world grow naturally in fields that are untended. Also water is available in ponds, lakes and streams, so no mechanical means are necessary to provide this resource to the animal

The byproducts of motive, urine and manure can be captured and used to make a variety of products.

The wagon and the horse require very little maintenance, a single man blacksmith shop and livery can easily service several dozen horse and wagon combinations.

All that is required to service a horse and wagon is a quantity of naturally occurring organic materials and a quantity of soft iron.

Operational costs are low, return on investment are high.

The main drawback would be expediency, slower than a mechanized unit, although faster than an ambulatory gait.

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#14
In reply to #12

Re: Transportation

01/05/2018 11:20 PM

"... Operational costs are low, return on investment are high...."

I'll take a wild guess and say you have never owned horses.

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#22
In reply to #14

Re: Transportation

01/06/2018 11:19 AM

The horse and wagon I spoke of was the typical device that a common man would own in the 1800's.

Not the sporting plaything that most owners of equine own today.

1800's man didn't have or need access to shots, nutritional supplements, hot walkers or just a phone call away visiting veterinarians they have today.

One can gain quite a perspective when ones relative owns and operates a ranch that raises world class arabians.

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#24
In reply to #22

Re: Transportation

01/06/2018 11:44 AM

"... One can gain quite a perspective when ones relative owns and operates a ranch that raises world class arabians....."

Arabians! That is indeed quite a perspective. Arabians of all breeds are definitely not low maintenance. Sure there are the relatively calm, sane exceptions, but the typical Arab is anything but.

Beautiful, spirited, capable of great endurance, and prone to intermittent periods of bat shit crazy as in ...

"Calm, fine, everything's okay carrying my rider....OMG, is that a hose? ....or is that a snake! OMG it might be a snake! OMG what is the best course of action?...should I move away smoothly? Fool, No! Better pretend like everything except for the rider is not subject to inertial effects. OH! It is still there pretending to be a garden hose! Don't run, snakes can sense fear! Quick, as fast as you can, lie down and trap the riders leg under you while you attempt to roll away from the hose snake. Also remember to get whale eye and jump around skittishly every other time (not every time) you pass this spot in the future, even though the hose has been removed"

...or...

"...Well don't the the humans think they're smart building this Paddock they don't think anyone can injure their self in. Well I'll show them let me just lie down and wiggle my leg way under the bottom fence rail and then from there try to stand straight up so I scrape all the skin off my leg. That'll take months of twice a day bandage changes to heal properly. That'll teach them."

Arabs, indeed.

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#26
In reply to #24

Re: Transportation

01/06/2018 12:36 PM

Just as an observation, I've noticed that your never quite that happy unless you are engaged in a joust with another player. It appears that you seek and thrive on conflict. Have you had this affliction for long ?

In the words of Mr Nightlinger : " I have the motivation, the where with all, but frankly I don't have the time ".

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#29
In reply to #26

Re: Transportation

01/06/2018 5:44 PM

Did pointing out the silly nature of your comments make you feel personally attacked? It is right to feel some slight degree of shame for erroneous assertions made from a less than knowledgeable perspective. The proper course is to recant your fiction. If not you will end up getting defensive.

I take your shift to an ad hominem attack as an unambiguous, yet uncouth, indication that you concede the folly of your assertion.

If this not correct and you still harbor profound misconceptions concerning the nature of Arabians or indeed the basic needs of horses in general, please contact your relatives. They are certain to set you straight about the expense of owning horses and the particular quirks of Arabs.

This stuff isn't a secret nor opinion held by a whimsical minority of owners....though I suppose you may choose to see such first hand knowledge as some widespread pandemic of affliction rather than consider you might have been overly zealous in your initial appraisal and assertions.

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#37
In reply to #29

Re: Transportation

01/07/2018 6:34 AM

In fairness to Tony: I think he was drawing attention to the difference between the needs of thoroughbreds and "stock" horses rather than the other way round.

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#44
In reply to #37

Re: Transportation

01/07/2018 2:26 PM

Thoroughbreds? I must have missed that part.

I pointed out how poor an example for low maintenance his choice of Arabians was and he deemed it an attack.

Horses are not cheap in time or food/accommodations regardless of which breed you use as an example or whether or not anyone feels attacked because their statements are criticized.

Generally, in my experience, the less refined towards some narrow specific goal a breed is, the lower maintenance and greater ruggedness of the horse. That is a broad brush with numerous exceptions and some caveats (live reasonable genetic diversity in lineage), but the correlation is not difficult to notice. Highly specialized breeds are often best at that one or couple things for which they have been selectively bred. Arabians used to be bred for exceptional endurance and ability to work closely with the rider. Most Arabians today are bred for what sells for high dollar; long necks, exquisite gait, dished face with a bulge at the forehead, big wide set eyes, high tail carraige and other conformation traits.

Arabians were previously known to be exceptionally calm and careful around people. Today Arabians are classified as hotbloods. Sure there are some are calm and careful enough to not raise concerns even with young children underfoot....but those are the rare exception. Arabians today are known to be 'fiery' 'spirited' and 'a handful/challenging even for experienced trainers'. Breeding for conformation traitw and. specific gait over less immediately obvious abilities can be detrimental to those less immediately obvious traits. That same thing happened to some dog breeds such as Boston terriers and Irish setters when they were bred for color instead of temperament and working capability (though there seems to be some improvement in recent years).

Anyway, using Arabians was a comically bad example supporting an assertion that doesn't have any good support.

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#30
In reply to #26

Re: Transportation

01/06/2018 8:20 PM

In this case, I believe that you should look to either Mark Twain who said "Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference," or George Carlin who said "Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience."

It appears that someone here believes that (to borrow a recent saying) they are a "stable genius."

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#34
In reply to #30

Re: Transportation

01/07/2018 12:35 AM

Yeah, that's the high road. Avoid actually discussing the point and continue with ad hominem attacks.

Lyn, it is remarkable how consistently you avoid questions of substance and jump to petty insults. Now you have extended your habit from merely avoiding answering inconsistencies in the rhetoric you preach to looking for any chance to jump in, much like a small yappy dog that wants to join in any time it thinks someone is being attacked. Are you that bitter that questions have been posed which point to the strength of your convictions being disproportionately oversized when com0ared to your understanding of the subjects?

You will feel better if you go back an answer those questions. You will be far less likely to jump in a discussion firing insults and calling names.

What a sad life you must lead.

p.s. Your misappropriation of Carlin and Twain doesn't make you in the right. They weren't giving advice for you, Lyn, so much as warning others about you.

Ever owned and cared for Arabians? ...what about any horse? How about a dog? Yeah, I suspect they wouldn't want to hang around you either.

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#38
In reply to #34

Re: Transportation

01/07/2018 9:50 AM

Quit acting like a spoiled child and get over yourself. If removing GAs makes you happy, go for it.

I'll say no more to you.

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#45
In reply to #38

Re: Transportation

01/07/2018 2:27 PM

Promises, promises.

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#47
In reply to #45

Re: Transportation

01/07/2018 8:59 PM

You've only deleted 10 GA's so far. Don't quit now.

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#48
In reply to #47

Re: Transportation

01/07/2018 9:44 PM

He could only find your last 10 GA's. Don't worry, you can use a few of mine at the GA store.

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#49
In reply to #48

Re: Transportation

01/07/2018 10:19 PM

Thanks anyway.

The "stable genius" can have all he wants.

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#51
In reply to #47

Re: Transportation

01/08/2018 9:07 AM

Paranoia will destroy ya. Quit getting the natives needlessly agitated with your delusions of persecution.

Far more often, your comments have earned a GA than an OT from me. That hasn't changed despite your onerous snorts of recent. Can you fathom why? Because unlike you, I am not resorting to ad hominem attacks. I rate the comment, not the commenter.

After all, even a blind hog gets an acorn every now and then. It would be cruel to deny it the bounty regardless of how ugly the hog is behaving.

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#59
In reply to #34

Re: Transportation

01/08/2018 9:50 AM

Now who is being just nasty? Hmmm...?

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#58
In reply to #30

Re: Transportation

01/08/2018 9:48 AM

This just keeps on getting better. Can't argue with you on that one.

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#70
In reply to #30

Re: Transportation

01/18/2018 5:09 AM

Hey Lyn,

How ironic would it be if while attempting to call someone a fool, you misattributed both quotes you found so apropos?

There is no good evidence that either Carlin or Twain said or wrote the words you attribute to them.

A similar quote can be found in Proverbs 26 4.... not really what one would call a go-to- reference for Carlin or Twain.

.

I realize you probably were relying on some clever quotes website for your attempted witticism, but if you can set aside the bickering for a moment, perhaps there is a useful lesson here about relying too heavily on what supposed experts tell you without gaining personal understanding.

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#71
In reply to #70

Re: Transportation

01/18/2018 11:33 AM

How do you know neither Carlin nor Twain every read that passage or quoted it?

I suspect if one had used the same collection of profanities either of those men uttered in their lifetime, they would become the most studious of Biblical scholars later in life, as they prayed for their salvation, and to find the Holy Grail. Usually the best Templar Knights were the worst sinners in a previous life. So prepare yourself, pilgrim.

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#72
In reply to #71

Re: Transportation

01/18/2018 11:58 AM

I think it was from the Book of Harold that was edited out from the new testament.

A lot of people don't know the Book of Harold because that's one of many scriptures that didn't make the cut when the Catholics were editting the Word of God when they were writing it.

yes, Book of Harold is fictitious,... at least I think it's fictitious,... who knows what was left on the cutting floor after religion institutions gets involved.

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#73
In reply to #72

Re: Transportation

01/18/2018 12:14 PM

You have never Harold 17:2?

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#74
In reply to #73

Re: Transportation

01/18/2018 12:33 PM

Amazon has something

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#75
In reply to #74

Re: Transportation

01/18/2018 1:46 PM

So God is now a philanderer? WOW! The deeviel is working OT lately, right?

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#76
In reply to #75

Re: Transportation

01/18/2018 2:09 PM

I had to googled Harold 17:2... to no avail. and only came up with amazon

Instead of saying the Book of Harold,... maybe I should have used the Book of Poindexter instead.....

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#77
In reply to #76

Re: Transportation

01/18/2018 2:29 PM

Heck, open up your own book (or mine), Chapter 17, verse 2: "Get back on your heads you motley crew!" "Break time is over!"

Every personal book comes with at least one verse that says that.

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#79
In reply to #77

Re: Transportation

01/19/2018 8:12 AM

oh,... you must be talking about the personnel handbook....

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#78
In reply to #71

Re: Transportation

01/18/2018 5:48 PM

You are reading in what wasn't written (and wasn't intended). I did not say they never read it. I only said it wasn't likely to be a go-to reference.

Carlin actually did a lot of material critical of the bible, so in that sense, perhaps it could be considered a go-to reference.

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#80
In reply to #78

Re: Transportation

01/19/2018 8:13 AM

Carlin actually did a lot of material critical of the bible,

Well,.. that book can be a target rich to criticizes...

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#81
In reply to #80

Re: Transportation

01/19/2018 4:04 PM

The book, or some of the people seemingly devotees of the Book?

It is not the Book's fault if some do not know how to go about communicating with it.

The Bible has been called the Living Word of God. Perhaps, brother, there is a reason for that. If you purposed in your heart to find a new meaning in there, and opened the Book in good faith, not with a jaundiced eye, I promise you that today, you might find a slice of Paradise in there. A quantum of solace.

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#82
In reply to #81

Re: Transportation

01/19/2018 5:04 PM

The Bible has been called the living word of god...

And who calls it that? God, or the people that wrote it?

and as far as faith is concerned, faith is a whole another topic,...

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#85
In reply to #82

Re: Transportation

01/22/2018 9:53 AM

I leave it for you to explore, and see if you find anything in there that speaks directly to your heart.

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#83
In reply to #81

Re: Transportation

01/19/2018 8:53 PM

He definitively went after devotees, but he also went after the book...

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#84
In reply to #83

Re: Transportation

01/19/2018 9:09 PM

oooh, just one more....

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#87
In reply to #84

Re: Transportation

01/22/2018 10:30 AM

..."the divine plan"... on that topic, why would God mess up His plan just for someone's selfish wants, not needs?

On the topic of prayer....it is not all about begging the Higher Power for something you just want, although there is no fault in being honest with God. There are other aspects of rightful prayer, but this is not particularly the place or time or forum in which to delve deep in that.

For evil enemies, one can pray for them, that they receive their just reward, also what they need and deserve, rather than what they want. For some, it might be well to pray they receive exactly what they are asking for. For others, that they find justice, for still others, mercy.

When I need mercy, it does me well to ask God if I have been merciful, and where I can improve on that.

The Book tells me that it is far better for me to not go to the church and pray if I have a conflict with someone in my circle (or outside my circle), but it is better to go them and resolve that conflict, offense, disagreement, etc., and then go on about my way to prayer. This is one reason why if a person holds a grudge in their heart, their prayers never seem to go past the ceiling, merely bouncing back to them.

Actually, George Carlin is right in many respect, and funny while doing it. If there are all these spurious issues in a life, it is better to deal with them, then go pray. There may be a reason why God is not being "talkative" on a subject. It could be that the party praying is not listening to what God already told them to take care of.

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#86
In reply to #83

Re: Transportation

01/22/2018 10:08 AM

I never said I did not or will not laugh off mine posterior to the phrases of George Carlin. He crows much, never lays an egg, and seems to have it all together. I expect there was a reason the Moses had to write down the expanded version, and not the two (or three) commandments of George. Perhaps it was so that the folks he was leading could really better understand explicitly the will of the one God dictating the commandments.

George, in elaborating his version, has broken his own third commandment, which is often the case with those that find indigestion when a personal relationship with God is mentioned.

It is good to honor your mother and father (that your own days may be prolonged upon the Earth). It does you good, it says nothing about the problems or good points with your parents. Clearly, some parents should never have been parents, but that is another entire thread. It is about your heart, how you feel, what kind of love you are capable of showing others, even when they spitefully mistreat you.

If you can do this, your days on the Earth will be blessed, and you will find peace (in the end). Fulfilling this one commandment, puts the soul on the road to having the capacity within them to begin to appreciate and obey the other nine commandments.

Even so, these remain as the Old Covenant (contract), and now we have a New Covenant (contract). It is much simpler. Love one another, even as I have loved you.

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#39
In reply to #26

Re: Transportation

01/07/2018 11:20 AM

You are quite correct in your assumption. It is time to get out the troll spray.

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#50
In reply to #39

Re: Transportation

01/08/2018 2:22 AM

Oh Peter, are you still bitter about having so many people thrash your assertions of superior intellect and authority accompanying your absolutely over-the-top claims in the 'am I drinking enough water' thread?

Time to put on your big boy pants get over it, Peter.

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#54
In reply to #24

Re: Transportation

01/08/2018 9:40 AM

I did ROFLMAO! I don't care who you are, that is down right funny. That Arabian horse sounds like a lot of folks I know.

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#62
In reply to #54

Re: Transportation

01/08/2018 10:02 AM

One thing about the Arabs... when they are running,... they're one of the most graceful horses there are.... it matches their temperament.

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#68
In reply to #62

Re: Transportation

01/14/2018 4:03 AM

True.

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#18
In reply to #12

Re: Transportation

01/06/2018 5:53 AM

Obviously you have never handled horse, let alone cart.

Horse needs feeding every day of the year, whether being used or not. Takes an hour or so prep and tidy up each time used. (Catch and harness before any useful work can be derived, then clean and cool before release at and of work.

Wheels on carts have rigid (compression) spokes and cannot cay the loads possible on tensioned wire spokes like pushbike wheels.

If these options were anywhere more efficient, then the automobile and truck would never have been competitive.

When grandfather abandoned horses, nearly 30% of the farm's productive effort was consumed feeding the horses necessary to run the farm. The tractor didn't use anywhere near that proportion.

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#25
In reply to #18

Re: Transportation

01/06/2018 12:08 PM

The application of agriculture husbandry and mechanical operatus were never meant to be competitive, the comparison would be like the human powered propulsion of the javelin to the mechanical propulsion of the archer. A newer means of motive has always been shown to supplant an older technology.

Many of the wonders of the ancient world were constructed using compression spoke wheels long before the advent of tensioned wire spokes. As for the tractor, thousands of man hours are used in the design, engineering and construction of the device and the parts thereof, not to mention the millions of dollars required for implementation of the same, whereas a hammer, saw, block plane, hand drill and rule could be used to build the other.

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#31
In reply to #25

Re: Transportation

01/06/2018 9:19 PM

Thanks for the confirmation. The fact that tractors have generally replaced horses for general farm work and motor bikes for general fam transportation is the evidence of this.

The fact that some people choose to retain "working" horses for entertainment/hobby/nostalgia is an outcome of the bounty that was made possible by the new alternative. We did use horses in the high country before bikes were suited, but allowed them to retire once we moved to the flatter country. They were never used again in the 15 years or so that they remained on the farm.

Newer technology is adopted if it is more efficient/effective than that which it replaces. Some newer technology has been tried in multiple fields and abandoned since they did not provide benefit relative to the alternative. (Steam powered passenger cars in the early 20th century for instance.)

Mustering on horseback goes like this. Catch and prep the horse for use, approx. 30 minutes. Ride 6km to the muster paddock, an hour or so. Water them before commencing muster another 15 minutes or so. Ride another 3km to diagonal opposite corner of paddock, another 30 minutes or so. Then commence the muster, say 3 hours. Water horse when paddock finished, 15 minutes, then an hour to get home and 30 minutes to water them, feed them and return saddles etc to racks. (3 hours not mustering in a 6 hour session.) We muster to paddock corner with central lane to rest of property, then let the stock move along the lane and "discover" the open gate into their next paddock.) Makes it a 6 our day in the saddle. Cost to retain a horse for a year around $500 in feed and medication. We did our own shoes and other vet/maintenance actions.

Mustering on motorbike. Move bike out of shed 30 seconds, start and ride 6+3=9km to far end of paddock to commence muster (Around 15 minutes allowing for a couple of gates.) muster to same corner point, then ride 6km back to house and straight into shed (around 10 mins) giving change out of 30 minutes not mustering. Home for morning tea before the day gets hot. Cost to retain a bike for a year around $100 in fuel, oils and chain/sprockets. We usually got 25,000km before an upgrade was purchased and the older bike became a working spare for visitors.

Not to mention that our working dogs would ride the back of the bikes and be fresh when we started mustering rather than already having travelled more than 9 km before starting their work. The dogs get a free ride home also, saving them 15km in this example. The bike doesn't soil inside the shed, so there is no cleaning up after it either.

BTW, I do have the skills and tools to build a wagon and the wheels, including a pit saw and full set of blacksmith tools (half a ton or so of tongs, hammers etc.) and would not do that by choice unless there was significant financial incentive.

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#53
In reply to #18

Re: Transportation

01/08/2018 9:37 AM

Nothing is so good for the heart (inside) of a man, than the outside of a horse. Love your horse, and they will love you back.

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#61
In reply to #53

Re: Transportation

01/08/2018 9:56 AM

We logged and periodically worked the farm with horses... Belgians, half breeds (Belgians breed with what ever mares we had, to get a smaller horse... it was easier for dad to put on the harness as he aged.), and we also logged with Haflinger.

They became an extra man... we'd hitch the log up, and send them out on their own... we had a guy outside the woods to unhitch and send them back on their own...

Took the horses about a week to pick this up. If the ever got hung up in the woods. they would back up, and try a slight angle pull... only after a repeated unsuccessful try's... they would then stand and wait for help.

People who visited, were astonished... and looking back,.. even though we were proud of it... to a certain degree, we took it for granted.

Same with a good farm dog that can worked cattle.....

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#63
In reply to #61

Re: Transportation

01/08/2018 2:14 PM

Animals are amazingly good at doing what is requested, once they get the hang of it, and are generally not nefarious, and want to please the master animal. Why? I don't know, especially when/if they get virtually nothing out of it in return. If praised, petted, groomed, well fed, and well watered, then maybe that gives them some happiness.

It is mere play for the animals most of the time, and some people will never understand that.

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#64
In reply to #63

Re: Transportation

01/08/2018 4:56 PM

Depends... we had filled out paper work to get few mustangs from the government... and one of extremely hard to get broke. except maybe not to Dan "Buck" Brannaman

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#69
In reply to #63

Re: Transportation

01/14/2018 2:12 PM

Some domesticated animals are quite good at appropriate requests.

Not sure that corresponds well to efficiency in transportation, though responding poorly to appropriate requests could certainly lead to inefficiencies.

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#15

Re: Transportation

01/06/2018 1:25 AM

What is more efficient- You have to drive a car say 200 k.m on hot day. Yoy need to use AC to cool the car. Will it be more efficient to drive it at 90 k.m/h [optimise engine's fuel consumption] or 160 km/h to save ac working time?

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#16
In reply to #15

Re: Transportation

01/06/2018 3:24 AM

It would be the rare exception where driving at 160 vs 90 would save fuel because you ran the A.C. (and the whole car) for a shorter period of time.

Typical auto A.C. can consume 6 kW. Power required for air resistance rises roughly with the cube of velocity. It would be an unusual case where additional power for air resistance did not dwarf any savings for shorter run time at the 90 vs 160 kmph.

A.C. load will also be higher while driving faster on a hot day.

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#52
In reply to #15

Re: Transportation

01/08/2018 9:35 AM

That must be why everyone on the interstate highways continually break the speed limit law, one speed up, and like a school of fish they all speed up, just to save on A/C, then turn around and risk dismemberment and death.

Get rid of the A/C compressor and get one of these new systems when it comes out.

membrane/dew point cooler system is all the rage

Plus you get drinking water to spare, drop in a sanitizer tab first, please.

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#57
In reply to #52

Re: Transportation

01/08/2018 9:48 AM

For the most part, IN high traffic, I always felt one should drive at the speed of the traffic flow. I've seen a lot less incidence when this occurs.

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#21

Re: Transportation

01/06/2018 10:11 AM

It depends a lot on the distance to move the item. Across the warehouse, maybe a fork lift , depending on weight, but it would certainly cost more to use a jet liner to move freight from one side of the airport to another!

Weight is always an issue. Shipping plastic tubing can be vary expensive, since in effect you can be shipping air!

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#27

Re: Transportation

01/06/2018 1:41 PM

I think to answer that you have to designate a distance that makes sense for all classes of general transportation vehicles, and a minimum number of people. Let's take a group of 25 people traveling 500 miles. 500 miles is a distance that a group of people might travel via plane, train, boat (point-to-point along a coastline), car (rental cars, or ubers) -- or bus. (10 miles by plane makes no sense; 5000 miles by car may be doable but is unrealistic.)

Given these options, I'd say bus. It can haul people and goods. A bus carrying 25 people will use less fuel per passenger mile carrying the same number of people as the equivalent number of cars. It's the least expensive of these options to book a ride on.

Buses also allow a greater variety of point-to-point destinations than trains or airplanes, which typically require additional vehicles to get you to your final destination.

Final answer: buses.

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#28

Re: Transportation

01/06/2018 5:23 PM

Wife and I will be celebrating our 30th year of our self-built, totally electric powered solar boat. Not fast but gets from one shallow sunny beach to another just in time for sunsets and libations. Would be nice if the idea ever really catches on but this is the way it is currently. Maybe the next generation will see the light. We have a site and blog because I just keep working to make it better. Visit if you wish at www.mogcanalboat.com: and www.mognavy.blogspot.com

Definitely a most economical transport and mini home in port or on the beach.

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#35
In reply to #28

Re: Transportation

01/07/2018 12:41 AM

Nice work.

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#56
In reply to #28

Re: Transportation

01/08/2018 9:47 AM

I am surprised to find no VAWT mast to take advantage of wind as well as solar.

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#32

Re: Transportation

01/06/2018 10:40 PM

There is no best; only most appropriate for the task. A sledge hammer is great for breaking rocks, not so much for finish carpentry a suburban house. Same - same for transportation; my F-150 custom crewcab is ideal for my business needs, but would absolutely suck for transcontinental cargo haulage.

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#33

Re: Transportation

01/06/2018 10:43 PM

How long is a rope?

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#55
In reply to #33

Re: Transportation

01/08/2018 9:42 AM

About one foot too short to hang an idea.

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#36

Re: Transportation

01/07/2018 1:44 AM

Sub: Innovation – Fuel less mass transportation system fully integrating private conveyances.

We briefly present the innovative project viz. Fuel less mass transportation system fully integrating private conveyances for meeting challenges in transport sector, for the benefits of people, at large, as follows.

Roads, Railways themselves will move (such as conveyor tracks) with aid of solar & wind power and will carry thereon persons, goods, loaded vehicles, passenger laden buses/coaches etc. Two tracks capable of running at desired speed (say 200 kilometers per hour) will be laid on existing roads & railways. Primary track will move non-stop while secondary track will be stationery for fixed time interval (say 1 minute) when passengers, vehicles etc can shift between service road & the secondary track; and this secondary track will then move along with and the same speed of primary track for fixed time interval (say 1 minute) when passengers, vehicles etc can shift between the tracks.

2. It is mentioned that

* The proposed Fuel less mass transportation system fully integrating private Conveyances is based on innovation and patents are duly published by Indian Patent Authority (1086/MUM/2012) as well as by World intellectual Property Organization (WO2013164848).

· The system works in synergy with the existing public as well as personal transportation means to provide an enhanced public-private transport system;

· It will be efficient, quick, safe & cost effective public-private transportation system;

· There will be no need of driving individual public or private vehicles; thus, no burning of fuels; no pollution; no road accidents;

· It will save 80% cost in transport sector;

· Covering most busy road lengths will save 70% fuel; will eliminate oil import in a country;

· In addition, the system will also save huge expenditure on transport infrastructure such as wide roads & enormously huge number of vehicles.

· It may be done in phases, Crowded Roads in Cities; National Highways; then State Highways and other major roads.

· May also be done on Local railway tracks in metropolises.

· People all over world will remember executors for centuries !

3. It may be appreciated that entire world is moving with a vision to convert all fossil fuel driven vehicles into Electric vehicles. This can, conveniently be achieved with adaption of the subject patented concept. There will be no need to change all existing vehicles themselves which may involve heavy expenditure, huge wastages & serious challenges during such change over. Instead, by modifying road & rail segments in the envisaged manner & method, all existing vehicles will also run on so modified road & rail lengths, without fuel & will run on electricity, preferably solar or wind power.

4. The system will be “Fuel less Mass transportation system fully integrating private vehicles”.

5. Yet more benefit will be that of saving huge expenditure on infrastructure in future viz. on more & wider roads, more number of railway tracks & extraordinarily huge number of vehicles etc. will be substantially reduced as a result of maximizing use of existing infrastructure (in systems in vogue, not even 10% of road, rails length can be put to use while individual conveyances are moving requiring safe distance between them). There will also no need of stations, stops as one can join or leave conveyor tracks at any point between two end destinations.

6. While I have been canvassing for such fuel less public transportation system since 2011, now I feel obliged to the world and Prime Minister of India for vision of eliminating fossil fuel from the transport sector.

7. It shoule be our Endeavour to ensure elimination of fossil fuel from transport sector by execution of the patented concept project (1086/MUM/2012, WO2013164848).

Kindly keep us posted of your response in the matter.

Yours faithfully,

Uttamrao Hanumantrao Jadhav, IRS (rtd)

Managing Director, M/S AIR CASTLES GREEN LIMITED.

“ShriShailyam”, Village Sultangade, TalukaKhanapur, District Sangli, Maharashtra, India. Pin 415307. Website : https://www.aircastlesgreen.com ; Phone : +919819670920 ; +919833669535 ;Email : uttamrao.jadhav131053@gmail.com; uttamrao@aircastlesgreen.com ; Blog : uttamraojadhav.blogspot.com

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#42
In reply to #36

Re: Transportation

01/07/2018 1:48 PM

It isn't going to work: you have no '1'. You certainly have devoted some enthusiasm to 2 through 7, but things don't start at 2.

...and to think you spent all that time calculating the fuel savings as well as how long into the future people will praise the developers....yet you missed the critical first step.

Even more tragic: you never get a second chance to make a first (step) impression.

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#43
In reply to #36

Re: Transportation

01/07/2018 2:03 PM

Your proposals are quite ambitious and would take many lifetimes to achieve if at all possible. Your proposal obviously reflects conditions that exist in your country of India that you feel, and rightfully so, is a major concern. But in other parts of the world, conditions do not exist to the same extent as in your country. You can not just mandate compliance with your concept. Those countries that do not share similar problems as yours, have their own agenda to follow. In the United States, you would never get the people to give up their cars in favor of public transportation. I'm sure other countries feel the same.

In general, I think people the world over are only concerned with what will happen in their own lifetime and will let the next generation figure out what is best in their lifetime. It may sound like selfishness, but it is a realistic fact of life.

I commend you for your belief, but I think you are looking for a utopian world that is just a pipe dream.

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#60
In reply to #36

Re: Transportation

01/08/2018 9:50 AM

So it is a bucket (of sheite) brigade?

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#40

Re: Transportation

01/07/2018 12:01 PM

It depends on the need... you want it there quickly... Trucking or airfreight... very expensive.

You want it cheaply but delivery is not critical... Train or Cargo ship.

It all about compromise.

In project management we have 3 items to choose from...

  • Cost
  • Schedule
  • Quality

Pick (2)

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#41
In reply to #40

Re: Transportation

01/07/2018 12:31 PM

Yes but...................

I ordered a $3.79 USD Schrader Valve tool from the 800 pound gorilla of on-line sales. And, every time I order from them, a small % of the purchase cost is given to the charity of my choice.

It shipped free of charge and was delivered on the second day after I placed the order.

This goes back to the inexpensive molded cap that was made in China. I'm sure that shipping took a lot longer tho. Maybe it's the on-shore warehouses?

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#46
In reply to #41

Re: Transportation

01/07/2018 4:01 PM

Maybe it's the on-shore warehouses?

That's true.

I have been ordering off of ebay and amazon... and they do have onshore warehouses of items in larger demand that they move.

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