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Synchronizing Two Pneumatic Cylinders

02/02/2018 4:53 AM

how can i syncronize two pneumatic cylinders

what would be the most suitable method and easy to formulate

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#1

Re: Syncronizing two pneumatic cylinders

02/02/2018 5:00 AM

Link the 2 rods mechanically.

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#2

Re: Syncronizing two pneumatic cylinders

02/02/2018 6:11 AM

Please describe the proposed set-up and the reason(s) for wanting to synchronise. In this way, the forum might offer (a) solution(s) to a clearly-defined problem.

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#3
In reply to #2

Re: Syncronizing two pneumatic cylinders

02/02/2018 6:21 AM

i have designed two pnuematic cylinders and i want to syncronize them so that they have same extract and retract and i want to use them in a pnuematic press for an electrode wire cutting machine.

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#4
In reply to #3

Re: Syncronizing two pneumatic cylinders

02/02/2018 6:28 AM

Go on, please?

There isn't enough for the forum to work with yet.

Link to similar thread using hydraulics.

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#5
In reply to #4

Re: Syncronizing two pneumatic cylinders

02/02/2018 6:47 AM

so each cylinder is producing 6.3 kN force with 5bar pressure and required force to cut 5mm dia wire is 7.8 kN. thats why i want to use two cylinders and syncronise them so that i can get total 12.6 kN force . how should i syncronise them?

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#6
In reply to #5

Re: Syncronizing two pneumatic cylinders

02/02/2018 7:19 AM

Please explain why:

  • Increasing the pressure above 6.2 bar and using a single cylinder, and
  • Increasing the diameter of the cylinder by 24% and using a single cylinder, and
  • Using a no.2-pattern lever to provide 24% more force at the expense of 24% more travel using a single cylinder

have been discarded as alternatives.

The more information that is available to the forum, the quicker it will be able to provide solutions.

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#7
In reply to #6

Re: Syncronizing two pneumatic cylinders

02/02/2018 9:29 AM

Quite.

Compound lever?

I do enjoy making things complicated and wonderful, but this seems to not be a circumstance for such an exercise.

Image from Wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compound_lever

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#8
In reply to #3

Re: Syncronizing two pneumatic cylinders

02/02/2018 11:48 AM

You could use a two double-rod cylinders and pipe them in series (exhaust of one is input to the other) but fluid comprehensibility might be an issue depending on load balancing.

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#9

Re: Synchronizing Two Pneumatic Cylinders

02/02/2018 2:07 PM

Simple answer: You can't.

Air is compressible, so ANY difference in resistance/friction/plumbing will cause one cylinder to move at a different rate.

Codemaster has the simplest solution.

Link them or have them attached to a plate guided by guide rods.

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#10
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Re: Synchronizing Two Pneumatic Cylinders

02/02/2018 2:22 PM

Thanks lyn!

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#11

Re: Synchronizing Two Pneumatic Cylinders

02/02/2018 6:00 PM

Get some square bar stock.

Drill/tap two holes in one side to accommodate the cylinders, then drill/tap one hole in the center of the other side to accommodate some type of device into the other side to drive the cutter and there you go.

Do it mechanically! Don't try to get fancy with formula or controls.

I'll look for an illustration if you can't visualize this. It's pretty simple.

Imagine this drilled and tapped as above

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#28
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Re: Synchronizing Two Pneumatic Cylinders

02/03/2018 11:00 AM

Could also have the 2 cylinders facing each other, offset, linked to a bar with a pivot in the middle. That would give torque varying with the piston positions, which might be useful. Or even a rack on each rod working a common pinion, giving constant torque. A bit like a 2-piston 1/4 turn valve actuator.

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#29
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Re: Synchronizing Two Pneumatic Cylinders

02/03/2018 11:18 AM

It appears that this is still in the "how do I do this" stage, a single, properly sized cylinder would be called for, stroke is unimportant, or a lever resembling #7 concept by Doorman.

Or this

Or this

Cutting a piece of steel rod is not rocket science and doesn't require a custom design. Not sure what OP's game is, but something off the shelf will save OP lots of wasted time.

Beaming up now.

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#30
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Re: Synchronizing Two Pneumatic Cylinders

02/04/2018 8:02 AM

I was just trying to answer the question as asked. I'm sure you're right, he ought to take a step back and think of a better way to do it.

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#31
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Re: Synchronizing Two Pneumatic Cylinders

02/04/2018 10:42 AM

Me too, at first. But as we went along, it became obvious that this is just wishful thinking with no forethought as to the simplest method to arrive at the end result.

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#12

Re: Synchronizing Two Pneumatic Cylinders

02/02/2018 6:03 PM

Hydraulic would probably be a better choice than pneumatic. With pneumatic there will be much overshoot after the cut is complete.

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#13
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Re: Synchronizing Two Pneumatic Cylinders

02/02/2018 6:16 PM

Properly designed tooling would have stops to limit travel, but hydraulic would be a better choice, if it's an option.

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#14

Re: Synchronizing Two Pneumatic Cylinders

02/02/2018 10:50 PM

Use hydraulics and mechanically tie two slaves as pumps to one master driven by whatever, air or hydraulic. Positive displacement will assure precise alignment. Yeah, it's a lot of hardware but it's exact.

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#15

Re: Synchronizing Two Pneumatic Cylinders

02/02/2018 11:39 PM

if you still have to buy the cylinder, use a TANDEM cylinder, it would be the easiest solution, no messing around with mechanical gadgets.

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#16
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Re: Synchronizing Two Pneumatic Cylinders

02/02/2018 11:46 PM

OP says, "i have designed two pnuematic cylinders" so I doubt they have been purchased. Maybe "specified", or "conceived" would be more accurate.

Op then has asked about tools designed to cut wire mentioned here. I think OP is in very early design stages and has no real plan yet.

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#17
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Re: Synchronizing Two Pneumatic Cylinders

02/02/2018 11:57 PM

if he is still in the designing phase just fit in a bigger cylinder, Presumably he has some issue with the space available. We need more information i guess.

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#18
In reply to #17

Re: Synchronizing Two Pneumatic Cylinders

02/03/2018 12:05 AM

yes 7'' dia cylinder would be bigger thats why i divided it in two parts and used two cylinders of 5'' dia.

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#19
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Re: Synchronizing Two Pneumatic Cylinders

02/03/2018 12:08 AM

then use a tandem cylinder, unless you have a problem of length.

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#21
In reply to #19

Re: Synchronizing Two Pneumatic Cylinders

02/03/2018 12:14 AM

yes i need smaller stroke length too

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#24
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Re: Synchronizing Two Pneumatic Cylinders

02/03/2018 12:25 AM

OK, an oil air system would be fine. Use the oil in the rear part of the tandem cylinder and reverse the motion with a switch which you can regulate based on the depth you want to reach.

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#20

Re: Synchronizing Two Pneumatic Cylinders

02/03/2018 12:08 AM

Try air over oil system.

I designed a dual cylinder system last year for lifting a platens out of bins.

I linked the outlet of one cylinder the inlet of the other cylinder.

Both cylinders where double end piston cylinders so the displaced oil equaled the incoming oil of the other cylinder.

Had the oil reservoir in the ceiling space above with all the controls up ther.

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#22
In reply to #20

Re: Synchronizing Two Pneumatic Cylinders

02/03/2018 12:16 AM

oil is OK if you need a control of the linear speed. I will not be the case if you need to just cut wire.

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#23
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Re: Synchronizing Two Pneumatic Cylinders

02/03/2018 12:21 AM

I'm not convinced that air is the way chop 5 mm steel wire in the first place, if this is a direct plunge cut with no mechanical advantage.

I think this idea is not thought out well.

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#25
In reply to #23

Re: Synchronizing Two Pneumatic Cylinders

02/03/2018 12:39 AM

I did no see "steel wire" mentioned anywhere, an electrode would most probably be in led, aluminium or copper.

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#26
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Re: Synchronizing Two Pneumatic Cylinders

02/03/2018 3:32 AM

I may be wrong, but it is mentioned in the second, related question here: cutting tool

"cut 5mm dia mild steel wire"

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#27

Re: Synchronizing Two Pneumatic Cylinders

02/03/2018 8:14 AM

Having a line splitter may work on cylinders that’s not pushing a common force,

But if you are trying to synchronize 2 cylinder punching a common force, that’s can spell trouble.

one cylinder side binds just slightly, the air will go to the side of least resistance and create even binding.

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#32

Re: Synchronizing Two Pneumatic Cylinders

02/05/2018 12:18 PM

For the application you are using....DON'T.

When the wire shears, the cylinder will slam to end of stroke or to whatever stop you provide and hammer the crap out of it. Think pop-gun.

If you have to use air for power, then use air over hydraulic oil so that you can speed control the shear stroke and limit the impact at end of stroke.

If you cannot use the hydraulic, then operate a toggle mechanism with the air cylinder so that you get smooth deceleration at end of punch stroke with less hammering on the air cylinder.

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